Comparable pay offer for ATCEs/ATSAs
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PH-UKU
Being a little short of Annual Leave (despite all the time I get off), I just popped into PC World to buy one of these new "off the shelf" super ATSA replacement computers. I had planned to send it into work tomorrow and give myself a day off. Unfortunately, they'd sold out ( I think that Jocko and Greebson must be stockpiling them). Oh well.
I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original plan for NERC to do away with ATSAs and replace them with electronic strips etc. And wasn't it the ATCOs (quite rightly in my opinion!) who wanted paper strips and ATSAs to go with them so that there was an effective back-up in the "unlikely" event of a computer failure. Maybe I'm out of touch a little but if the feeling really is that ATSAs can and should be replaced by "off the shelf" computers, who am I to argue.
With regards to your estimate of the cost of a London ATSA, don't forget that "admin costs" such as NI and pension costs will apply to the non NATS airfields as well. So you can double your figures for them. Many non NATS airfields also pay considerably less for ATCOs.
Isn't it about time that we called a truce now? The anti ATSA, ATCO and ATCE messages that have appeared on this forum have really only done so because of this years pay talks. Management have achieved their goal (with our help) and split us all into our own camps. Lets just get on with our jobs (whatever grades and payscales) and work together as we used to as a TEAM.
Being a little short of Annual Leave (despite all the time I get off), I just popped into PC World to buy one of these new "off the shelf" super ATSA replacement computers. I had planned to send it into work tomorrow and give myself a day off. Unfortunately, they'd sold out ( I think that Jocko and Greebson must be stockpiling them). Oh well.
I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original plan for NERC to do away with ATSAs and replace them with electronic strips etc. And wasn't it the ATCOs (quite rightly in my opinion!) who wanted paper strips and ATSAs to go with them so that there was an effective back-up in the "unlikely" event of a computer failure. Maybe I'm out of touch a little but if the feeling really is that ATSAs can and should be replaced by "off the shelf" computers, who am I to argue.
With regards to your estimate of the cost of a London ATSA, don't forget that "admin costs" such as NI and pension costs will apply to the non NATS airfields as well. So you can double your figures for them. Many non NATS airfields also pay considerably less for ATCOs.
Isn't it about time that we called a truce now? The anti ATSA, ATCO and ATCE messages that have appeared on this forum have really only done so because of this years pay talks. Management have achieved their goal (with our help) and split us all into our own camps. Lets just get on with our jobs (whatever grades and payscales) and work together as we used to as a TEAM.
Last edited by Karoshi; 6th September 2002 at 20:56.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 343
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From: UK
PH-UKU, I cannot get into anything deeply on a public forum, both because it is public, and also because my fingers would be worn out through all the typing.
The best way for education would be for you to visit an ATC Unit, where you can find out what ATSA's (and ATCO's) do.
You are a pilot, so would be made most welcome (despite comments about ATSA's). Education=Understanding=All Happy
The best way for education would be for you to visit an ATC Unit, where you can find out what ATSA's (and ATCO's) do.
You are a pilot, so would be made most welcome (despite comments about ATSA's). Education=Understanding=All Happy
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8
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From: Basingstoke
Stabbed in the Back
I've just heard that the ATC union negotiators insisted that NATS limited the amount that was offered to ATSAs/ATCE as they wanted more in the pot for ATCO's. Cheers guys, its good to know who our friends are
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 108
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From: England
ATC Eng
You really shouldn't listen to all your told.
p.s. did you hear PCS (ATCO Branch) have secretly negotiated an extra 6 weeks leave a year for ATCOs and for ATSAs/ATCEs to lose a few days, but keep it to yourself
You really shouldn't listen to all your told.
p.s. did you hear PCS (ATCO Branch) have secretly negotiated an extra 6 weeks leave a year for ATCOs and for ATSAs/ATCEs to lose a few days, but keep it to yourself
Watchdog Delta Hotel
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 128
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From: here but there in 6 years
lady macbeth
agree with greebson i'm afraid atc eng
in the same way the lady called macbeth manipulated her husband you should recognise the way you and your fellows in trade have
i agree you should be given the same pay rise as atco's
at the end of the day though if what you say is true then give your reps f@@**@g sh!T they are part of the trade union side and obviously shafting you not representing you!
ps hope you vote no in spades we atco's should have no balls really or maybe mortgaged to the balls or just vocal bulls******s
in the same way the lady called macbeth manipulated her husband you should recognise the way you and your fellows in trade have
i agree you should be given the same pay rise as atco's
at the end of the day though if what you say is true then give your reps f@@**@g sh!T they are part of the trade union side and obviously shafting you not representing you!
ps hope you vote no in spades we atco's should have no balls really or maybe mortgaged to the balls or just vocal bulls******s
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 106
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From: Here to Eternity
I heard the same story... As I heard it the ATCO negotiators weren't happy that after smugly announcing they'd now bled NATS dry to get their improved deal, more money was being found for non-ATCOs. They didn't want to look stupid at missing out on getting even more.
Personally I couldn't care less as, if it is true, they failed anyway.
Personally I couldn't care less as, if it is true, they failed anyway.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8
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From: Basingstoke
Maybe its true maybe it isn't. From what I can tell the majority of engineers are going to vote no. I've heard though (and this may also be false) that if we reject the pay offer management will scrap it entirely and begin again although the ATCO offer will remain in place
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 438
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From: Sunny Warwickshire
If the engineers vte no, maybe we ATCOs could change our minds, then it could go on forever and maybe a bit longer than that.
It's time all this ill feeling between ATCO, ATCE & ATSA was put to bed.
We all work together and God knows the system would collapse if it wasn't for our collective efforts.
One payrise for all, that should be the way it is, but some negotiators are too timid and believe everything they're told (a bit like some contributors to this forum).
The way forward..... many suggestions have been made, and maybe one day the problem will be solved.
It's time all this ill feeling between ATCO, ATCE & ATSA was put to bed.
We all work together and God knows the system would collapse if it wasn't for our collective efforts.
One payrise for all, that should be the way it is, but some negotiators are too timid and believe everything they're told (a bit like some contributors to this forum).
The way forward..... many suggestions have been made, and maybe one day the problem will be solved.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5
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From: Nr Swanwick
250 kts
Not every engineer voted yes for the last pay offer. I didn't and have again voted no! The reason being that I don't believe that this is the best offer we can get and the fact that our Union negotiators said that we wanted complete parity with the ATCOs. Now they are saying, Oh well, lets not push it too far!! if we don't want to look like complete mugs we have to stick to our guns and go for parity.
Not every engineer voted yes for the last pay offer. I didn't and have again voted no! The reason being that I don't believe that this is the best offer we can get and the fact that our Union negotiators said that we wanted complete parity with the ATCOs. Now they are saying, Oh well, lets not push it too far!! if we don't want to look like complete mugs we have to stick to our guns and go for parity.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 106
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From: Here to Eternity
Just a couple of things...
1. If the engineers rejected this time, then the whole offer to ATCE, ATSA & MSG would be scrapped and back to square one... but the ATCO deal will go through this month regardless.. So the representation will be split for good. Remember that doesn't just mean a split on pay negotiation.. but on everything.. terms and conditions etc.
2. Did I read right? Did someone actually ask why people who only work day shifts don't receive UHP?!?! Come on!
1. If the engineers rejected this time, then the whole offer to ATCE, ATSA & MSG would be scrapped and back to square one... but the ATCO deal will go through this month regardless.. So the representation will be split for good. Remember that doesn't just mean a split on pay negotiation.. but on everything.. terms and conditions etc.
2. Did I read right? Did someone actually ask why people who only work day shifts don't receive UHP?!?! Come on!
