Remote towers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any controller, any sector? Haven't heard that one yet but then my work has always been ADI/APS. I've read bits and pieces about SESAR but it hasn't really filtered down the entire business yet, I'm sure it will though at some stage. It's a bit like saying any pilot, any aircraft. Sure the principles are the same and for 99% of the time you'll be flying along quite happily - snag is when the proverbial hits the fan, you have a human so far behind what's happening that it may well prove unrecoverable.
Unfortunately I refer back to what I stated earlier, if someone knows what they want as an end result then simply write the risk assessment to suit. That way it all looks good on paper. It's not that long ago when I was coming through training. all students were told under pain of death that they were never to vector on the ATM, regulator would strip their license and all hell would break loose. Fast forward a few years and let's do RITT. Thats not enough, now its lets have one controller doing several airports. Where does it all stop? Do we need a major or catastrophic incident to show that sometimes efficiency and cost cutting has limits? I hope not. Unfortunately my experience in recent years has been ideas and plans coming down from senior management to middle management, the mantra isn't "will this work?", rather "make this work if you want your performance bonus and career progression."
Unfortunately I refer back to what I stated earlier, if someone knows what they want as an end result then simply write the risk assessment to suit. That way it all looks good on paper. It's not that long ago when I was coming through training. all students were told under pain of death that they were never to vector on the ATM, regulator would strip their license and all hell would break loose. Fast forward a few years and let's do RITT. Thats not enough, now its lets have one controller doing several airports. Where does it all stop? Do we need a major or catastrophic incident to show that sometimes efficiency and cost cutting has limits? I hope not. Unfortunately my experience in recent years has been ideas and plans coming down from senior management to middle management, the mantra isn't "will this work?", rather "make this work if you want your performance bonus and career progression."
https://www.sesarju.eu/news/any-controller-any-airspace
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,574
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
The modern logic:
Successive governments fear having people unemployed.
They find ways of taking away more jobs by replacing the employed with (ostensibly cheaper in the short to mid term) technology.
We all complain about the rift between the employed and the unemployed.
The unemployed resent the employed.
The employed resent having to help support the unemployed.
Not my logic though.
Successive governments fear having people unemployed.
They find ways of taking away more jobs by replacing the employed with (ostensibly cheaper in the short to mid term) technology.
We all complain about the rift between the employed and the unemployed.
The unemployed resent the employed.
The employed resent having to help support the unemployed.
Not my logic though.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is possible, logic and plausible. It should be further developed before operational application but it is future,for sure.
The only backseat is social questions -read it Term and Conditions. We are facing competition that are capable. Today is too much "borders" and papers that blocks full implementation "free movement of working people" (in ATC domain)-such as language, citizenship ( EU/non EU) ,local procedures, military sensitive data. etc.. This is just a way for our main goal - " we protect our best working position for our people". It is still top job for many countries in Europe. (unmatched salary, rostering-working hours, other benefits and social security at the top of all.)
And could you imagine that we transfer those working positions to some third country provider that will pay ATCOs 2$ or so daily?
Without some major disruption in world relationships it will not be approved and applied.
The only backseat is social questions -read it Term and Conditions. We are facing competition that are capable. Today is too much "borders" and papers that blocks full implementation "free movement of working people" (in ATC domain)-such as language, citizenship ( EU/non EU) ,local procedures, military sensitive data. etc.. This is just a way for our main goal - " we protect our best working position for our people". It is still top job for many countries in Europe. (unmatched salary, rostering-working hours, other benefits and social security at the top of all.)
And could you imagine that we transfer those working positions to some third country provider that will pay ATCOs 2$ or so daily?
Without some major disruption in world relationships it will not be approved and applied.
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I can comment as an ex-AREA ATCO, ex-ADC ATCO, ex-APC/APS ATCO and ex-CSC......And it scares me sh*tless.
Back in the 1990s, (or thereabouts), a copy of 'Transmit' arrived in our crew-room, and on the front was the headline 'De-Skilling The Profession'.
It's coming.
Back in the 1990s, (or thereabouts), a copy of 'Transmit' arrived in our crew-room, and on the front was the headline 'De-Skilling The Profession'.
It's coming.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 1st Mar 2019 at 19:59.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rapunzel's tower
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Same job, slightly different tools, requiring the same skills. (Or did I mis-interpret your post?)
Rgds
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi good egg,
It was mainly aimed at the 'one ATCO fits all sectors' part of the discussion.
How's EGLC coming on by the way, is there an 'O' Date yet?
All the best.
It was mainly aimed at the 'one ATCO fits all sectors' part of the discussion.
How's EGLC coming on by the way, is there an 'O' Date yet?
All the best.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rapunzel's tower
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
)AFAIK it’s all on track from a technical point-of-view, but I’m not really in the loop these days.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If by De-Skilling you mean moving more traffic than ever before, with less staff, and maintaining an excellent safety record, then I guess we have been de-skilled...
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: uk
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am new to PPRune so cannot post links to URLs. It may interest some of you to find the Transcript of the meeting of The Convention of the Highlands and Islands held on Millport on 12th March 2018. On pages 69-82 is a presentation and Q&A session given by the Chair of HIAL, Lorna Jack, and Inglis Lyon, MD of HIAL. It was supposed to inform the representatives from Highlands and Islands local authorities and Scottish Government agencies why HIAL must have Remote Towers. It was also meant to clear up "misconceptions" about what remote air traffic means. Look it up. Enjoy a trip into the Mind of Senior Management....
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Moon
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is the Millport meeting link. I’m very impressed that remote towers are going to affect aircraft minima in fog and they will be able to land on a sixpence! Starts at page 69.
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/conten...eDownload=true
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/conten...eDownload=true
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is the Millport meeting link. I’m very impressed that remote towers are going to affect aircraft minima in fog and they will be able to land on a sixpence! Starts at page 69.
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/conten...eDownload=true
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/conten...eDownload=true
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like the dream is being sold to gullible and not necessarily knowledgeable people. Unfortunately I can imagine a similar conversation with airport managers up and down the country, all on the basis of telling them what they want to hear.
Must admit though I'm quite interested in the £160k tax free at LGW, where do I apply for that please?
Must admit though I'm quite interested in the £160k tax free at LGW, where do I apply for that please?
Last edited by escaped.atco; 20th Mar 2019 at 19:08. Reason: Packer just beat me to it, we're all mercenary!
