Logging times in ATC

[off watch]

A thread about Oceanic time margins made me think about how UK units log movements. I thought I recalled the method @ EGLL in the early 70's was that the minute ran from 35 seconds before to 34 seconds after for landing times etc. but I've also seen it quoted as 31 before to 30 after. Anyone have a definitive answer for what they do at their unit nowadays ?

[good egg]

Originally Posted by off watch

A thread about Oceanic time margins made me think about how UK units log movements. I thought I recalled the method @ EGLL in the early 70's was that the minute ran from 35 seconds before to 34 seconds after for landing times etc. but I've also seen it quoted as 31 before to 30 after. Anyone have a definitive answer for what they do at their unit nowadays ?

At my unit 1300 runs from 12:59:30 until 13:00:29.

[sunnySA]

are we talking minutes or half minutes?

[parishiltons]

Agreed. That's pretty much universal.

[Packer27L]

The thread about Oceanic time margins actually quotes the ICAO Annex 11 rule (albeit with an incorrect reference half way through the tread) regarding how all units should log movements with regards to time.

[off watch]

Thanks people.
sunnySA, I was thinking in terms of minutes, as used on Flight Progress strips & in Movemenents Logs, not for separation etc.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Places I've worked the minute changed at 30 seconds..

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR

Places I've worked the minute changed at 30 seconds..

In other words, logging times to the nearest minute. That sounds entirely logical.

[ZOOKER]

This is interesting.

When I did ADC, I can't remember writing TO/Landing times on our FPS like that.

I'm fairly certain if the 'event' happened at 10:35:43. on out 'TIMEON' Digital Clock, it was written as 1035.

Having said that, it was a long time ago.

[seahawks]

Not any more, after electronic strip displays minute is from 00-59.

[Packer27L]

Originally Posted by seahawks

Not any more, after electronic strip displays minute is from 00-59.

That may be what EFPS displays, but the rules haven’t changed. An airborne time of 15:33:41 should be treated as 15:34 for every purpose other than wake turbulence timing.

[brianj]

I recall in the good old days pre-automation, that the airborne time recorded was manipulated to match slot tolerance.

[Dan Dare]

and if you forgot to do it the kindly assistant would edit the movement log to show a more correct time

[Eric T Cartman]

@ Dan Dare - Mrs Cartman concurs. I read her your post & instant response was "yes - wouldn't be the first time I did that!" :-)

[2 sheds]

...but the rules haven’t changed. An airborne time of 15:33:41 should be treated as 15:34 for every purpose other than wake turbulence timing

Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?

2 s

[Packer27L]

Originally Posted by 2 sheds

Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?

2 s

See, now I’m stumped and feel like a chump. Can’t find it written down anywhere. But I shall continue to search...and perhaps temporarily redefine my memory of the ‘ATC minute’ to match that of the man on the streets’.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Time is a variable! We used 3 mins between DVR deps on westerlies and when it was busy I rang the bloke on TMA(SE) and asked for 2 mins between 2 DVRs and he said "2 mins approved but make sure there is 60 seconds in each one!"

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR

"2 mins approved but make sure there is 60 minutes in each one!"

I hope that's a typo and you intended to say '60 seconds'.

[2 sheds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 sheds
Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?
2 s

See, now I’m stumped and feel like a chump. Can’t find it written down anywhere. But I shall continue to search...and perhaps temporarily redefine my memory of the ‘ATC minute’ to match that of the man on the streets’.

Quite so, In the absence of anyone quoting a definitive reference, I cannot help feeling that it is just an illogical "custom and practice". We are considering a clock indication which registers elapsed time - to my mind, the seconds should be ignored if the requirement is to record only (hour and) minutes. If your age is 37 years and seven months, you would not say that you were 38.

​​​​​​​2 s