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Logging times in ATC

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Logging times in ATC

Old 23rd May 2018, 22:47
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Logging times in ATC

A thread about Oceanic time margins made me think about how UK units log movements. I thought I recalled the method @ EGLL in the early 70's was that the minute ran from 35 seconds before to 34 seconds after for landing times etc. but I've also seen it quoted as 31 before to 30 after. Anyone have a definitive answer for what they do at their unit nowadays ?
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Old 23rd May 2018, 23:38
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Originally Posted by off watch View Post
A thread about Oceanic time margins made me think about how UK units log movements. I thought I recalled the method @ EGLL in the early 70's was that the minute ran from 35 seconds before to 34 seconds after for landing times etc. but I've also seen it quoted as 31 before to 30 after. Anyone have a definitive answer for what they do at their unit nowadays ?
At my unit 1300 runs from 12:59:30 until 13:00:29.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 23:59
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are we talking minutes or half minutes?
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:17
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Agreed. That's pretty much universal.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:00
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The thread about Oceanic time margins actually quotes the ICAO Annex 11 rule (albeit with an incorrect reference half way through the tread) regarding how all units should log movements with regards to time.
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Old 24th May 2018, 18:28
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Thanks people.
sunnySA, I was thinking in terms of minutes, as used on Flight Progress strips & in Movemenents Logs, not for separation etc.
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Old 24th May 2018, 19:32
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Places I've worked the minute changed at 30 seconds..
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Old 24th May 2018, 19:58
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR View Post
Places I've worked the minute changed at 30 seconds..
In other words, logging times to the nearest minute. That sounds entirely logical.
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Old 24th May 2018, 21:22
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This is interesting.

When I did ADC, I can't remember writing TO/Landing times on our FPS like that.

I'm fairly certain if the 'event' happened at 10:35:43. on out 'TIMEON' Digital Clock, it was written as 1035.

Having said that, it was a long time ago.
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Old 24th May 2018, 22:25
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Not any more, after electronic strip displays minute is from 00-59.
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Old 25th May 2018, 08:19
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Originally Posted by seahawks View Post
Not any more, after electronic strip displays minute is from 00-59.
That may be what EFPS displays, but the rules havenít changed. An airborne time of 15:33:41 should be treated as 15:34 for every purpose other than wake turbulence timing.
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Old 25th May 2018, 09:59
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I recall in the good old days pre-automation, that the airborne time recorded was manipulated to match slot tolerance.
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Old 25th May 2018, 11:36
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and if you forgot to do it the kindly assistant would edit the movement log to show a more correct time
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 08:20
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@ Dan Dare - Mrs Cartman concurs. I read her your post & instant response was "yes - wouldn't be the first time I did that!" :-)
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 16:02
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...but the rules haven’t changed. An airborne time of 15:33:41 should be treated as 15:34 for every purpose other than wake turbulence timing
Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?

2 s
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 21:05
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Originally Posted by 2 sheds View Post
Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?

2 s
See, now Iím stumped and feel like a chump. Canít find it written down anywhere. But I shall continue to search...and perhaps temporarily redefine my memory of the ĎATC minuteí to match that of the man on the streetsí.
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 22:38
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Time is a variable! We used 3 mins between DVR deps on westerlies and when it was busy I rang the bloke on TMA(SE) and asked for 2 mins between 2 DVRs and he said "2 mins approved but make sure there is 60 seconds in each one!"

Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 5th Aug 2018 at 13:24.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 11:53
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR View Post
"2 mins approved but make sure there is 60 minutes in each one!"
I hope that's a typo and you intended to say '60 seconds'.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 11:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 sheds
Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?
2 s

See, now I’m stumped and feel like a chump. Can’t find it written down anywhere. But I shall continue to search...and perhaps temporarily redefine my memory of the ‘ATC minute’ to match that of the man on the streets’.
Quite so, In the absence of anyone quoting a definitive reference, I cannot help feeling that it is just an illogical "custom and practice". We are considering a clock indication which registers elapsed time - to my mind, the seconds should be ignored if the requirement is to record only (hour and) minutes. If your age is 37 years and seven months, you would not say that you were 38.

​​​​​​​2 s
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