PPRuNe Forums - Logging times in ATC

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off watch

23rd May 2018 21:47

Logging times in ATC

A thread about Oceanic time margins made me think about how UK units log movements. I thought I recalled the method @ EGLL in the early 70's was that the minute ran from 35 seconds before to 34 seconds after for landing times etc. but I've also seen it quoted as 31 before to 30 after. Anyone have a definitive answer for what they do at their unit nowadays ?

good egg

23rd May 2018 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by off watch (Post 10155113)

At my unit 1300 runs from 12:59:30 until 13:00:29.

sunnySA

23rd May 2018 22:59

are we talking minutes or half minutes?

Packer27L

24th May 2018 05:00

The thread about Oceanic time margins actually quotes the ICAO Annex 11 rule (albeit with an incorrect reference half way through the tread) regarding how all units should log movements with regards to time.

off watch

24th May 2018 17:28

Thanks people.
sunnySA, I was thinking in terms of minutes, as used on Flight Progress strips & in Movemenents Logs, not for separation etc.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

24th May 2018 18:32

Places I've worked the minute changed at 30 seconds..

DaveReidUK

24th May 2018 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR (Post 10155917)

Places I've worked the minute changed at 30 seconds..

In other words, logging times to the nearest minute. That sounds entirely logical.

ZOOKER

24th May 2018 20:22

This is interesting.

When I did ADC, I can't remember writing TO/Landing times on our FPS like that.

I'm fairly certain if the 'event' happened at 10:35:43. on out 'TIMEON' Digital Clock, it was written as 1035.

Having said that, it was a long time ago.

seahawks

24th May 2018 21:25

Not any more, after electronic strip displays minute is from 00-59.

Packer27L

25th May 2018 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by seahawks (Post 10156049)

Not any more, after electronic strip displays minute is from 00-59.

That may be what EFPS displays, but the rules haven’t changed. An airborne time of 15:33:41 should be treated as 15:34 for every purpose other than wake turbulence timing.

brianj

25th May 2018 08:59

I recall in the good old days pre-automation, that the airborne time recorded was manipulated to match slot tolerance.

Dan Dare

25th May 2018 10:36

and if you forgot to do it the kindly assistant would edit the movement log to show a more correct time

Eric T Cartman

8th June 2018 07:20

@ Dan Dare - Mrs Cartman concurs. I read her your post & instant response was "yes - wouldn't be the first time I did that!" :-)

2 sheds

8th June 2018 15:02

Quote:

...but the rules haven’t changed. An airborne time of 15:33:41 should be treated as 15:34 for every purpose other than wake turbulence timing

Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?

2 s

Packer27L

12th July 2018 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 sheds (Post 10168302)

Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?

2 s

See, now I’m stumped and feel like a chump. Can’t find it written down anywhere. But I shall continue to search...and perhaps temporarily redefine my memory of the ‘ATC minute’ to match that of the man on the streets’.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

12th July 2018 21:38

Time is a variable! We used 3 mins between DVR deps on westerlies and when it was busy I rang the bloke on TMA(SE) and asked for 2 mins between 2 DVRs and he said "2 mins approved but make sure there is 60 seconds in each one!"

chevvron

13th July 2018 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR (Post 10195392)

"2 mins approved but make sure there is 60 minutes in each one!"

I hope that's a typo and you intended to say '60 seconds'.

2 sheds

5th August 2018 10:45

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 sheds https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Packer27L - to which rules are you referring?
2 s

See, now I’m stumped and feel like a chump. Can’t find it written down anywhere. But I shall continue to search...and perhaps temporarily redefine my memory of the ‘ATC minute’ to match that of the man on the streets’.

Quite so, In the absence of anyone quoting a definitive reference, I cannot help feeling that it is just an illogical "custom and practice". We are considering a clock indication which registers elapsed time - to my mind, the seconds should be ignored if the requirement is to record only (hour and) minutes. If your age is 37 years and seven months, you would not say that you were 38.

2 s

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