Birmingham drops Nats
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Lady logic or wind up
You blokes do make me smile.
If a new contractor took over the Birmingham or Gatwick ATC contract, TUPE (Transfer of Undertaking {Protection of Employment}) would ensure that all salaries and terms and conditions were replicated.Pensions are not covered so the lovely NATS final salary (for those still privileged) would be replaced by a money purchase scheme.But, it would be similar.
ALL of the ATCOs on the unit would transfer.Where else could they go ?NATS don’t have spare vacancies and most ATCOs have deep roots and families which want to remain in the respective area.
There has never been an unsuccessful transfer of ATC contracts (Don’t count Boscombe – that was a disgraceful stitch up).All transfers have involved the majority of ATCOs transferring.
If a new contractor took over the Birmingham or Gatwick ATC contract, TUPE (Transfer of Undertaking {Protection of Employment}) would ensure that all salaries and terms and conditions were replicated.Pensions are not covered so the lovely NATS final salary (for those still privileged) would be replaced by a money purchase scheme.But, it would be similar.
ALL of the ATCOs on the unit would transfer.Where else could they go ?NATS don’t have spare vacancies and most ATCOs have deep roots and families which want to remain in the respective area.
There has never been an unsuccessful transfer of ATC contracts (Don’t count Boscombe – that was a disgraceful stitch up).All transfers have involved the majority of ATCOs transferring.
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Having worked in 6 different countries, I can reliably inform you that the standards in all 6 are equally as good. Where the differences occur is in the execution of the control. A crew of controllers from diverse ATC backgrounds is, in my humble opinion, far superior to one comprised solely of home grown "talent".
Different countries have developed different strengths, be it tactical flow control, use of ADS-B, pilot education programmes, remote approach control etc all bring something unique to controlling.
Maybe, NSL losing a few contracts will allow new companies with fresh ideas to be allowed to show how ATC can be improved in the UK.
I have worked in the UK and know that NATS/NSL can be very reluctant to embrace new technology/procedures. Let's hope the contracts are awarded to some of the innovators.
Different countries have developed different strengths, be it tactical flow control, use of ADS-B, pilot education programmes, remote approach control etc all bring something unique to controlling.
Maybe, NSL losing a few contracts will allow new companies with fresh ideas to be allowed to show how ATC can be improved in the UK.
I have worked in the UK and know that NATS/NSL can be very reluctant to embrace new technology/procedures. Let's hope the contracts are awarded to some of the innovators.
@ LadyAtco
Not correct - only one stayed at Liverpool in 1982 and none stayed at Prestwick in 1993. I don't think many, if any at all, stayed at Hurn either.
Of course, times have changed and your premise regarding vacancies etc. may be correct but with little slack in unit complements nowadays, it only needs a handful to go to cause big problems. SRATCOH has seen to that ......
All transfers have involved the majority of ATCOs transferring.
Of course, times have changed and your premise regarding vacancies etc. may be correct but with little slack in unit complements nowadays, it only needs a handful to go to cause big problems. SRATCOH has seen to that ......
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Old & Bold
You are right Eric, but being much older you have a better memory than me.
However, I was involved with the Prestwick transfer and you are right, NATS walked out at midnight on the 1st April and refused access to the incoming contractors to the tower until 23:59.Therefore CAA SRG had to issue green field validations to the interim Serco ATCOs.Bloody irresponsible and very dangerous.But it worked.
I was also involved in the Hurn handover in 1985 when Airwork took over from NATS/CAA (and they did throw the Landrover keys into the grass !!)Again bloody irresponsible and very dangerous. But it worked.
However, I was involved with the Prestwick transfer and you are right, NATS walked out at midnight on the 1st April and refused access to the incoming contractors to the tower until 23:59.Therefore CAA SRG had to issue green field validations to the interim Serco ATCOs.Bloody irresponsible and very dangerous.But it worked.
I was also involved in the Hurn handover in 1985 when Airwork took over from NATS/CAA (and they did throw the Landrover keys into the grass !!)Again bloody irresponsible and very dangerous. But it worked.
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The one thing I have ever worked out about an ATC contract is what the staff do, and what they surely could possibly do.
Yes their terms and conditions are TUPE'd across to the new employer, but I believe these are just valid for a year.Now the new ATC provider needs those controllers to run the operation.
Personally if I was among the group of controllers staying at Birmingham I would be trying to organise a cohesive bunch that stick together and demand new terms and conditions, such as payment for every new controller we train and validate.
I know there will be rules and regulations concerning industrial action allowed etc, however the bottom line is the new company need you, the airport can't run without controllers, so stand up for yourselves.
If that means you don't train any new recruits then be prepared to do that and fight, the terms and conditions could be the best in the country, if controllers stick together.
If on day 1 no planes land or depart from Birmingham this will make the news and the new company's share price takes a hit!!!
Or perhaps I am just living in a little bubble and the reality is it doesn't work like that, anyone care to enlighten me?
Yes their terms and conditions are TUPE'd across to the new employer, but I believe these are just valid for a year.Now the new ATC provider needs those controllers to run the operation.
Personally if I was among the group of controllers staying at Birmingham I would be trying to organise a cohesive bunch that stick together and demand new terms and conditions, such as payment for every new controller we train and validate.
I know there will be rules and regulations concerning industrial action allowed etc, however the bottom line is the new company need you, the airport can't run without controllers, so stand up for yourselves.
If that means you don't train any new recruits then be prepared to do that and fight, the terms and conditions could be the best in the country, if controllers stick together.
If on day 1 no planes land or depart from Birmingham this will make the news and the new company's share price takes a hit!!!
Or perhaps I am just living in a little bubble and the reality is it doesn't work like that, anyone care to enlighten me?
When SERCO took over at an airfield in the south east of England, I was told they sacked ALL the controllers on the friday, then offered new contracts to about 50% of them the following monday. I was told this by one of the controllers who stayed on. This was in the days before TUPE of course, when employers weren't required to offer equal T & Cs.
What NSL need to do is replace all the controllers who wish to remain with NATS with controllers who are about a year off retirement.
What NSL need to do is replace all the controllers who wish to remain with NATS with controllers who are about a year off retirement.
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<<NATS don’t have spare vacancies >>
Wow.... things have improved since I left. The major airfield where I worked was never up to compliment, nor was TC. Glad it's all better now!
Wow.... things have improved since I left. The major airfield where I worked was never up to compliment, nor was TC. Glad it's all better now!
The major airfield where I worked was never up to compliment
Depends what you call compliment. What NATS think is a proper compliment is different to everyone elses. It now boils down to cost, the Unit may be up to compliment, but not neccesarily what it would have been a few years ago.
Depends what you call compliment. What NATS think is a proper compliment is different to everyone elses. It now boils down to cost, the Unit may be up to compliment, but not neccesarily what it would have been a few years ago.
LadyAtco
I could be wrong ( he normally is I hear the cry! ) but IIRC CAA lost the Hurn contract to IAL in 1979. IAL had a 7yr contract and lost it to Airwork in '86.
I can associate certain names with the changes ie Graham Lake, who I knew at LATCC, moved from JJ to work for IAL at HH. My old nav' mate Jeff Berryman (RIP ) started at HH with Airwork in '86 etc etc.
I can associate certain names with the changes ie Graham Lake, who I knew at LATCC, moved from JJ to work for IAL at HH. My old nav' mate Jeff Berryman (RIP ) started at HH with Airwork in '86 etc etc.
Lady ATCO
Your memory is at fault. The change of ANSP at Bournemouth Airport in 1985 was from Serco-IAL to Airwork. The latter was unable to fully undertake the contract on the starting date and a separate IAL watch stayed on for a further month so that Airwork did not fall flat on their corporate face - AND the IAL staff trained those who were on the unit before the start date. No keys were thrown into the grass.
2 s
I was also involved in the Hurn handover in 1985 when Airwork took over from NATS/CAA (and they did throw the Landrover keys into the grass !!)Again bloody irresponsible and very dangerous. But it worked.
2 s
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I heard that any controllers who were at Birmingham before 2000, or it may have been before PPP, and don't want to stay there have to be redeployed within NATS. Anyone employed after that date either transfers over or goes elsewhere outside of NATS. Anyone able to confirm that?
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COMPLEMENT
a number or quantity of something required to make a group complete.
"at the moment we have a full complement of staff"
Not COMPLIMENT
thank you .( I KNOW I am getting old now)
a number or quantity of something required to make a group complete.
"at the moment we have a full complement of staff"
Not COMPLIMENT
thank you .( I KNOW I am getting old now)
Last edited by eastern wiseguy; 6th Jul 2014 at 09:47. Reason: Amplification