Closure Of ScATCC.
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Loving this little spat!!! What you are reading here is a culture difference between the old NATS boys club and the new NATS business driven beast we have today.
I have been knocking around in NATS 20 plus years now, and remember the " boys " club, but you have to change with the times, obviously a bit difficult if you are retired or no longer in the company.
Keep the posts going guys, it's fun.
I have been knocking around in NATS 20 plus years now, and remember the " boys " club, but you have to change with the times, obviously a bit difficult if you are retired or no longer in the company.
Keep the posts going guys, it's fun.
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I think that the person who asked the question "What time do you close" was Sir Christopher Tugenhat who at the time was the Chairman of the CAA and at the time we all worked for the CAA.
closure of Scatcc
You are quite right, Nimmer. It is the Old brigade versus the New.
I just thank my lucky stars that I am among the former.
I wouldn't want to be with you now !
Management have always tended to be idiots, from the ATCO perspective. But, our's weren't quite so idiotic as the new brand.
I just thank my lucky stars that I am among the former.
I wouldn't want to be with you now !
Management have always tended to be idiots, from the ATCO perspective. But, our's weren't quite so idiotic as the new brand.
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Loving this little spat!!! What you are reading here is a culture difference between the old NATS boys club and the new NATS business driven beast we have today.
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Quite fun this I agree.30+ years in man and boy....so I guess I could be in the old boys camp? The company has changed beyond all recognition in that time...well worn reasons and arguments why and how.I'll just add one anecdote if I may...
....a senior manager highly placed in the organisation plugged in with me about 2 years ago.Steady session,nothing out of the ordinary but enough traffic to fully illustrate the task and enough time to talk it through with him.Decent bloke,been in the company some years,no ATC experience.
Over a cuppa afterwards he told me he was amazed to see the job at close quarters.Never had the opportunity (??) before.To cut to the point...he thought we were in effect systems monitors,only taking an active role in the event something went wrong,ie...the planes did their thing with little input from us.
This was a very telling illustration to me of the corporate face of our illustrious company.But more to the point the disconnect (liking the buzzword?) between upstairs/downstairs which in my career and opinion has never been greater.
Good luck for the future!
....a senior manager highly placed in the organisation plugged in with me about 2 years ago.Steady session,nothing out of the ordinary but enough traffic to fully illustrate the task and enough time to talk it through with him.Decent bloke,been in the company some years,no ATC experience.
Over a cuppa afterwards he told me he was amazed to see the job at close quarters.Never had the opportunity (??) before.To cut to the point...he thought we were in effect systems monitors,only taking an active role in the event something went wrong,ie...the planes did their thing with little input from us.
This was a very telling illustration to me of the corporate face of our illustrious company.But more to the point the disconnect (liking the buzzword?) between upstairs/downstairs which in my career and opinion has never been greater.
Good luck for the future!
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As a very recently retired ATCO I made a promise to myself NOT to comment on current NATS operations. I will enjoy reading how life is continuing within NATS BUT I will not make comments about how it was in my day......how the only people who could do it were old guys like me.
NATS ATCO's will have huge challenges to face in the near future. I am not a part of it. Let THEM get on with it and deal with those challenges. They do not need my comments.
I would suggest that old guys like me confine our input to stuff which hasn't changed and interminable stories about how they forgot some poor bloody aircraft and how it went almost to the French coast and back before they adopted it....
Verging........right back at ya!
NATS ATCO's will have huge challenges to face in the near future. I am not a part of it. Let THEM get on with it and deal with those challenges. They do not need my comments.
I would suggest that old guys like me confine our input to stuff which hasn't changed and interminable stories about how they forgot some poor bloody aircraft and how it went almost to the French coast and back before they adopted it....
Verging........right back at ya!
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Sir Christopher Tugenhadt's most memorable statement was that ATC was the kind of job that was best suited to bored housewives; I think he may have had a point having worked with a few old women over the years.
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REDUNDANCY CAPABILITY.
Why does a modern transport aircraft have 2 engines?
So's in the event of the failure of one, the flight can continue safely.............
Why did the UK have 2 centres for so long?
So's in the event of failure of one........................?
Aah but beancounters now know it all, like your "when do you close" manager!
I must get back to cluttering up your screens and sincerely hope you don't become victims of the privatisation/manpower reduction frenzy affecting all industries.
The desk pilots and ATC "managers" will only be happy when those who do will all be laid off and those who don't will continue abroad (by boat) to exotic conference locations to discuss why it all went wrong.
So's in the event of the failure of one, the flight can continue safely.............
Why did the UK have 2 centres for so long?
So's in the event of failure of one........................?
Aah but beancounters now know it all, like your "when do you close" manager!
I must get back to cluttering up your screens and sincerely hope you don't become victims of the privatisation/manpower reduction frenzy affecting all industries.
The desk pilots and ATC "managers" will only be happy when those who do will all be laid off and those who don't will continue abroad (by boat) to exotic conference locations to discuss why it all went wrong.
Last edited by BARKINGMAD; 25th Sep 2013 at 09:11.
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It is EU policy to have less control centres in Europe and so reduce costs to the airlines. This is music to the ears of the Airline group who are very focused on costs (and profits).
In its current configuration ScATCC couldn't handle Swanwick's workload and visa versa so there is no point in having the two centres.
People from ScATCC say Richard Deakin has told them they won't be moved before 2020. With the current project workload I doubt they could get Swanwick ready to take on ScATCC's work before then.
I'd be very surprised if senior NATS management and members of the board had not discussed closing ScATCC and I wouldn't be surprised if they had done a study of exactly what was required to move ScATCC's work to Swanwick.
If NATS do want to close ScATCC then I think they will say so before the next election because should we get a Labour government in 2015 I can't see them letting NATS close ScATCC.
In its current configuration ScATCC couldn't handle Swanwick's workload and visa versa so there is no point in having the two centres.
People from ScATCC say Richard Deakin has told them they won't be moved before 2020. With the current project workload I doubt they could get Swanwick ready to take on ScATCC's work before then.
I'd be very surprised if senior NATS management and members of the board had not discussed closing ScATCC and I wouldn't be surprised if they had done a study of exactly what was required to move ScATCC's work to Swanwick.
If NATS do want to close ScATCC then I think they will say so before the next election because should we get a Labour government in 2015 I can't see them letting NATS close ScATCC.
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Aye Lon,
but would that mean that the CAA Pension HQ has to relocate from Edinburgh back to down south and would it also have to de-invest of its' interest in the Waverley complex?
Can't see 'Wee eck' coming up with the moulah!
Cheers the noo
but would that mean that the CAA Pension HQ has to relocate from Edinburgh back to down south and would it also have to de-invest of its' interest in the Waverley complex?
Can't see 'Wee eck' coming up with the moulah!
Cheers the noo
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If the CAA was being broken up then part of its investments should be transferred to a new ScCAA.
The No lobby always conveniently forgets that Scottish taxpayers have paid their share into the UK. Only reasonable that they get that back when, if, they vote out.
The No lobby always conveniently forgets that Scottish taxpayers have paid their share into the UK. Only reasonable that they get that back when, if, they vote out.
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ScATCC as a civil ATC Centre disappeared in the late 1990's when it became ScACC in accordance with Eurocontrol parlance. For the last 3 or so years, it has been PC (or Prestwick Centre).
2020 would seem a fair bet for a closure if that's what is decided. Lot of water to go under the bridge before then, not least whether NATS continues with their plan for an interim ATC system based on iTEC at PC or just bite the bullet and go for a combined new ATC system at Swanwick and PC, which might never be needed at PC if closed.
2020 would seem a fair bet for a closure if that's what is decided. Lot of water to go under the bridge before then, not least whether NATS continues with their plan for an interim ATC system based on iTEC at PC or just bite the bullet and go for a combined new ATC system at Swanwick and PC, which might never be needed at PC if closed.
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If the CAA was being broken up
Thought not. Kird your kilts and go doon the glen after the sheep and re-enter the 17th century.
Why should the holding entity transfer equity to a competitior without standard punitive clauses. i.e. tell "wee eck' to join the real world.
Get off the Celtic emotion and get real
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 13th Oct 2013 at 11:21.
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Yes but Vercingetorix they will see the airspace as a money generating addition to the tax payer so will want it as the resource. All they will see is cash flying overhead.
Especially if they don't get into the EU.
Some SNP type will wake up in a ditch on the west coast, check they haven't pee'd themselves again. Checked nobody has taken there half bottle out there jacket. Then look up in the sky and say those buggers should be paying to fly across gods country.
To be honest though I really don't see it happening so its a bit of a mute point.
Especially if they don't get into the EU.
Some SNP type will wake up in a ditch on the west coast, check they haven't pee'd themselves again. Checked nobody has taken there half bottle out there jacket. Then look up in the sky and say those buggers should be paying to fly across gods country.
To be honest though I really don't see it happening so its a bit of a mute point.
