Spanish ATCOs earning £800,000 two years ago! Anything changed?

[Johnny Tightlips]

Some of these people don't even know the difference between indicated airspeed and groundspeed! Last week going into Madrid we reduced speed to 250 kias as requested (with 125 track miles to go of course) and the next thing the controller asked us in the usual abrupt and sarcastic way why had we not reduced speed as told and said we were doing 360! Yes we were doing a groundspeed of 360, the VMO on my aircraft is 340 The Captain tried to explain this and even gave him a bit of a lesson on the effect of altitude on indicated airspeed, but the controller just didn't get it.

Of course the Iberia ahead who was also told to do 250 had obviously slowed to 220 without telling anyone to try and f!@k us over and that didn't help things....

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Originally Posted by aldegar

Wow, thanks for the feedback! Very useful, you've opened me eyes. I'll try to be a better ATCO from now on.

You've seen the video right? Just trying to be an ATCO would be a pretty good start.

[aldegar]

Thank you so much again, so much wisdom in your words... I'm really learning a lot. Please, continue. By reading you (as well as Johnny) I may even get to be an ATCO some day.

[FLSV]

Some of these people don't even know the difference between indicated airspeed and groundspeed! Last week going into Madrid we reduced speed to 250 kias as requested (with 125 track miles to go of course) and the next thing the controller asked us in the usual abrupt and sarcastic way why had we not reduced speed as told and said we were doing 360! Yes we were doing a groundspeed of 360, the VMO on my aircraft is 340 The Captain tried to explain this and even gave him a bit of a lesson on the effect of altitude on indicated airspeed, but the controller just didn't get it.

Of course the Iberia ahead who was also told to do 250 had obviously slowed to 220 without telling anyone to try and f!@k us over and that didn't help things....

If this is true do you think this is a problem coused by managements lack of understanding that you have to give controllers education or do you think it is because the controller is stupid?

[Not Long Now]

I think it should be impossible to be an ATCO and not know the difference between IAS and ground speed.

[Plazbot]

Hey dodos9, why do you care? Sounds fishy.

[Johnny Tightlips]

If this is true do you think this is a problem coused by managements lack of understanding that you have to give controllers education or do you think it is because the controller is stupid?

I don't know really! Of course they should be taught all of this theory but if this controller had any genuine interest in his job he would know this very very basic stuff....

I think it should be impossible to be an ATCO and not know the difference between IAS and ground speed.

Spain has to be the only place where this can be possible.

[Sonnendec]

I think it should be impossible to be an ATCO and not know the difference between IAS and ground speed.

Spain has to be the only place where this can be possible.

With all respect, i think its stupid to think that we, spanish controllers, don´t know the difference between GS and IAS (It´s simply impossible). For what you have told about the situation, i´m sure the controller just didn´t believe you when you said that you were maintaining 250IAS.

Best regards.

[Johnny Tightlips]

With all respect, i think its stupid to think that we, spanish controllers, don´t know the difference between GS and IAS (It´s simply impossible). For what you have told about the situation, i´m sure the controller just didn´t believe you when you said that you were maintaining 250IAS.

He clearly said 360 indicated. I could not believe it at first either but we asked him to say again as we taught we heard it wrong, but no....

[Phalconphixer]

dodos 9... 16 yrs old huh...

Sorry son, but at 16 you do not have the life experience to comment on anything other than the relative merits of Maccy D's vs Burger King or Coca- Cola vs Pepsi.

Either that or you lied about your age and are in fact some sad old journo or forum troll looking to stir the pot.

What is important here is that AENA and the Spanish Government shafted the ATC controllers in exactly the same manner as Thatcher stuffed the miners and steelworkers in the UK, using exactly the same tactics. Poison the public with half truths and out and out lies, recruit and manipulate the media, and when that doesn't work out send in the heavies...

Seen it all before and believe me you haven't seen an end to it yet; across Europe the peasants are revolting against labour reforms which are geared to ensure that they get screwed whilst the top 5% get a whole lot richer.

[beachbumflyer]

Sonnendec,

And what about your month vacation?

And Johnny, your spelling isn't that great either.

[Sonnendec]

He clearly said 360 indicated. I could not believe it at first either but we asked him to say again as we taught we heard it wrong, but no....

Well, i can´t understand that kind of confusion in a controller (spanish or not), but i´ll take your word and believe that it was a "lapsus linguae". Can´t find any other explanation.

Thx. Best regards.

[Sonnendec]

Sonnendec,

And what about your month vacation?

And Johnny, your spelling isn't that great either.

They can just cancel my holidays if they need it on behalf of "service continuity" and reassign them for me. Same applies to everything else.

Best regards.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Sonnendec,

So you still get your month off?

Aldegar,

If you're after sympathy or empathy why don't you tell us what you are doing to improve the service you are supposed to be providing and getting paid €7000/month for.

[aldegar]

Aldegar,

If you're after sympathy or empathy why don't you tell us what you are doing to improve the service you are supposed to be providing and getting paid €7000/month for.

I read all your posts, isn't that enough?


Ok, ironic mode off.


The question is not what I'm doing to improve the service but what is my company doing about it.

I certainly try to do my best. I regularly visit FAA and CAA websites and download manuals and documents, I read forums like pprune, subscribe to magazines like Pilot, try to fly as much as possible with my PPL as well as with the Flight Simulator... (ok, I actually do this for fun rather than to improve the service, but it helps!).

HOWEVER, it's been more than three years now since my company has taken me to the simulator (you guys go at least once a year), and no plans to go in the near future. Incredible as it may seem, we don't get to simulate changes in our airspace, new procedures, unusual situations, emergencies... Is that to blame on us?

Just as an example, there is a sector at my ACC in wich I haven't worked at since last september (as air traffic drops with the end of the high season it is usually closed). In about three months (around june) I'll come to work one day and find that I'll have to control that sector (with no simulator practice beforehand, of course). After almost one year without sitting in that sector, do you expect me to be "professional"?

I'm eager to learn, practice, simulate... but my company does nothing about it (and I have complained about it, with no answer of course).

And then I come to this forum and get INSULTED by you ("rubbish", "unprofessional", "worst service"...) and Johnny (I'm so fool I don't know the difference between IAS and GS). Believe me, I'm not after your simpathy/empathy...

[SINGAPURCANAC]

I have to....

I do understand Spanish atcos position. " ..to loose what you had...." I have passed it many times ,sometimes personally ,sometimes I have witnessed it...
I work with colleagues who lost T&C, overnight, literary. From 3 to 4 000 DM to just a few, war, refugee status and rest came as "additional benfits"
So "Spanish ATC Case" is nothing,believe or not.

Nevermind, I have worked so far, for three different ANS providers. Different systems, different countries, different money....
But None of these has ever received so many negative comments on public forums, social networks and so on. I do feel that if they recieve by any means of communications 1 % of comments given on AENA service, there will be managers hangin' on local square,as an example to others

From my point of view, something is very wrong. you may blame whoever you want, but something is wrong.
We have special threads at least at two different places only on this forum, plus negative public view plus very negative consumer rate( the most important thing) .
There is no ANSPs,at least in Europe with such rating. Google it, if you do not believe.

Stick to your job, do it professionally and you may expect improvements.
Blaming management and ministry for situations is ridiculous.
It won't change bad service,if it exists as such at all. And it is obvious that some bad practices exists.

Take wider picture, without efficient air service, you are at even bigger problem.

[clyclayton]

I do not wish to insult anyone. I keep words like "rubbish" etc. out of this forum.
But, as a matter of fact, in Spain there is the worst ATC service in western world. I do not have reason to be harsh with Spain in general and I do not give a XXXX on how much Spain's ATC controllers earn. The fact, and I do not think I am the only airline pilot around to think like this, is that their performance is definitely poor.

Try to ask Madrid or Barcelona for a shortcut...

@ aldegar "worst service" is not an insult, it is not in English, it is not in Italian and I am pretty sure it is not in Spanish as well.

[beachbumflyer]

Well, I think ATC in Greece is even worse. It's been a while since I flew there.

[Denti]

Greek ATC isn't great either, but the do improve slowly and are by now quite a bit better than their spanish brethren. Sadly with their financial crisis at the moment there is not a big chance they will switch out their pre-WW II radios for some better units any time soon though.

[clyclayton]

Greece has improved a lot in the last 15 years. And, IMHO, is better than Spain.