Question for correct phraseology

[Pilot125]

To all the ATC controllers :

Initial calls to radar after Take Off shall include :
Callsign
SID
passing alt/level
cleared alt/level

When contacting subsequent frequencies ( e.g. still in climb FL268 to FL330 )
, does the initial call still requires " passing Level 268 climbing FL330 direct XXX " or only " climbing FL330 direct XXX " ?

- does the passing level ALWAYS has to be included ( during climb and descend )
- is there a difference between EU and UK / US / Asia ....

Many thanks

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Expect a better answer..... however, the altitude check after take-off is to validate the SSR altitude information. Whether a report of passing level later in the climb is required I do not know.

[millerman]

I work in Maastricht and the way we do it is that the first sector controller needs the passing level to verify the mode C . Subsequent sectors don't verify it as they trust that the first sector has done the correct check. I believe this is pretty standard
So you only need to give the level when changing control centres would be the short answer ( or when asked )

[Piltdown Man]

That's news to me. I regularly get three Maastricht's on the trot. So just give the current/passing level the first one then?

PM

[eyeinthesky]

For the UK:
Other than the first call on departure as specified below, when changing frequency:

- Cleared level only if climbing or descending
- Actual level and cleared level if you have not yet left level flight.

(ENR 1.1.3 has the details)

[millerman]

Sorry I was a bit vague
The original question was -

does the passing level ALWAYS has to be included ( during climb and descend )

Which was what my answer was referring to. You should give your cleared level on initial call to any sector and also include passing level to the first sector - but if I am not first sector to be honest I am more interested in the point you are navigating to !! If you are mode S compliant we see your selected level and the level you are maintaining so if they don't differ then we are happy

[millerman]

@ eyeinthesky,
Don't you have to verify the mode C on initial call of traffic climbing to you from other centres such as Amsterdam or Brussels?

[Pilot125]

Thanks millerman

But still not 100% sure right now so to clarify :

Example :

- Take off FRA
- Change Langen Radar .... report passing level to verify mode c
- Change Langen Radar .... no need to report passing level because already done before
- Change to Maastricht .... report again passing level because new sector
- Change to Masstricht ..... no need to report passing level because same sector

Correct ?

[anotherthing]

If you are mode S compliant we see your selected level...

Millerman, just a word to the wise... the above is not good practice as the selected FL is not always the same as the one the aircraft is climbing/descending to (I agree it should be, but it isn't!), this is why the cleared level is still mandatory on changing frequency.

[millerman]

@Pilot125

Correct you just have to give the cleared level because the mode C has been verified (although I don't know if Langen has the same procedures as us so you may have to state the passing level to all sectors! )

@anotherthing
Correct - thats why I said -

You should give your cleared level on initial call to any sector

Happy New Year to all

[eyeinthesky]

millerman:

Our procedures allow us to consider the Mode C verified and validated from approved units. Maastricht, Amsterdam and the other neighbouring ACCs, as well as many airfields in the UK, come into that category. So no, we don't have to revalidate Mode C on traffic transferred from neighbouring ACCs.

gelukkig nieuwjaar!

[millerman]

Interesting to know!


Dank je wel en hetzelfde voor u