New ATCOs
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: europe
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New ATCOs
Hi, i spend the last days reading the threads here, intresting and entertaining stuff.
I will recive me European ATC student license within this year, with APS/TCL and ACC ratings. I am very intrested in working around the world, both for the experience and also to make more money then my home country can offer
.
My question to you more expericned fellas is how common is it for other countries to accept people with only ATCO student licenses?
Any specific countries you can mention who does this would be greatly appreciated
.
When it comes to countries who requires more experince than what i can offer at the time beeing, how many years minimum experience is it usually recuired?
When you apply for work around the world i guess all you do is find the employing company for that country and contact them?
Of course my first choices would be to work in Europe or north america, and also UAE if you still can make good money there. But Im also wonderingif there is anyone here who has worked in East asia, for example china or japan? Any chance for Europeans to get work there, and will you make any money there?
best wishes
Cyrus
I will recive me European ATC student license within this year, with APS/TCL and ACC ratings. I am very intrested in working around the world, both for the experience and also to make more money then my home country can offer
. My question to you more expericned fellas is how common is it for other countries to accept people with only ATCO student licenses?
Any specific countries you can mention who does this would be greatly appreciated
.When it comes to countries who requires more experince than what i can offer at the time beeing, how many years minimum experience is it usually recuired?
When you apply for work around the world i guess all you do is find the employing company for that country and contact them?
Of course my first choices would be to work in Europe or north america, and also UAE if you still can make good money there. But Im also wonderingif there is anyone here who has worked in East asia, for example china or japan? Any chance for Europeans to get work there, and will you make any money there?
best wishes
Cyrus
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Spain
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Hi Cyrus.
First of all I wish you a good start on your new ATC career.
You mention in your post three times the word "money" and looks like for you it's the one and only thing to take into account in this job. My advice is that there are more important things to consider before moving (year and monthly working hours, quality of life at destination, holidays, the company's attitude towards its workers...).
I'm not saying money isn't important (I like to get paid at the end of every month!), but you should look at it as ONE more factor to consider.
First of all I wish you a good start on your new ATC career.
You mention in your post three times the word "money" and looks like for you it's the one and only thing to take into account in this job. My advice is that there are more important things to consider before moving (year and monthly working hours, quality of life at destination, holidays, the company's attitude towards its workers...).
I'm not saying money isn't important (I like to get paid at the end of every month!), but you should look at it as ONE more factor to consider.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I've allready been offered a better paid job, in Spain and has nothing to do with ATC... and working only 20 hours a week and having aaaall the weekends available. The only reason I'm not quitting ATC (for the moment being...) is because of my family (would have to move to another city).
Your licence is unlikely to be recognised in the UK, although the UK CAA may accept if you take a test of prior competence at an approved college of ATC.
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IICyrusII, my apologies for misunderstanding your post.
About coming to work to Spain, there are so many changes and new things coming out everyday after the famous Decree (february) and the new law following it (april) that it's difficult to say. We're not even certain at all about our situation and how we are going to end up! Lots of rumours... (and we don't know what other "undercover" plans AENA and the government might have in mind
).
I can only give you some tips from what I've read and heard:
- Spanish citizenship: I wouldn't bother about getting it, it has never been a requirement to be an ATCO in Spain. Before, it was a requirement to have a University Degree recognized by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science, but holding a University Degree is no longer a requirement and any ATCO with an european ATC licence (nothing said about the spanish citizenship) could now legally work here as long as he/she has at least an ICAO level 4 in spanish.
- With the Decree, AENA will be in charge of all the ACCs and some TWRs. Some twrs will become AFIS (the first one GCGM in a few weeks) and some twrs will be privatized (which ones?).
- Looks like AENA won't be hiring new ATCOS. They've just announced that GMC in LEMD and LEBL will no longer be done by ATCOs but by the airport staff. Rumours are they also want to get rid of the assistant position in most radar sectors. They are also forcing us to work more hours with less ATCOs per shift. They can also dispose of all the ATCOs currently working in the twrs that will be privatized or "afisized". So, we even suspect they will fire some of us at some point.
- If AENA doesn't hire any ATCOS, the only option will be working in a twr with the new private companies (no idea... serco? DFS?..). No idea about what the T&Cs will be with the new companies, but the Prime Minister justified the Decree as a way to cut cost and constantly mentioned the "new low cost controllers".
- Our trade union (USCA) policy is that any foreign controller coming to work to spain should be hired in the same T&Cs as we have (no "second class" ATCOs).
- New private ATC schools will start working in autumn in Spain. Students will pay for their tuition, around 50.000 euros with only the twr rating (6 months course). And most of those finishing will be offered a job afterwards (though they don't guarantee it)
- Not only the situation is not clear, but we are also taking legal action and we are fighting against all this. We may not win the war, but we hope to win many battles.
About coming to work to Spain, there are so many changes and new things coming out everyday after the famous Decree (february) and the new law following it (april) that it's difficult to say. We're not even certain at all about our situation and how we are going to end up! Lots of rumours... (and we don't know what other "undercover" plans AENA and the government might have in mind
). I can only give you some tips from what I've read and heard:
- Spanish citizenship: I wouldn't bother about getting it, it has never been a requirement to be an ATCO in Spain. Before, it was a requirement to have a University Degree recognized by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science, but holding a University Degree is no longer a requirement and any ATCO with an european ATC licence (nothing said about the spanish citizenship) could now legally work here as long as he/she has at least an ICAO level 4 in spanish.
- With the Decree, AENA will be in charge of all the ACCs and some TWRs. Some twrs will become AFIS (the first one GCGM in a few weeks) and some twrs will be privatized (which ones?).
- Looks like AENA won't be hiring new ATCOS. They've just announced that GMC in LEMD and LEBL will no longer be done by ATCOs but by the airport staff. Rumours are they also want to get rid of the assistant position in most radar sectors. They are also forcing us to work more hours with less ATCOs per shift. They can also dispose of all the ATCOs currently working in the twrs that will be privatized or "afisized". So, we even suspect they will fire some of us at some point.
- If AENA doesn't hire any ATCOS, the only option will be working in a twr with the new private companies (no idea... serco? DFS?..). No idea about what the T&Cs will be with the new companies, but the Prime Minister justified the Decree as a way to cut cost and constantly mentioned the "new low cost controllers".
- Our trade union (USCA) policy is that any foreign controller coming to work to spain should be hired in the same T&Cs as we have (no "second class" ATCOs).
- New private ATC schools will start working in autumn in Spain. Students will pay for their tuition, around 50.000 euros with only the twr rating (6 months course). And most of those finishing will be offered a job afterwards (though they don't guarantee it)
- Not only the situation is not clear, but we are also taking legal action and we are fighting against all this. We may not win the war, but we hope to win many battles.
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Looking back to your original question, you ask how likely it is that your licence will be accepted by other countries.
In theory, because your current training is as a minimum 'CCC-compliant', the licence that is issued should be recognised by all other EU States. By the end of the year there will be an Implementing Rule detailing how EASA will manage the issue (and so on) of ATCO licenses - initially it will probably be broadly similar to the European Directive on which each State's current rules are based. As the Directive appeared to be designed to achieve a common European licence, you can probably expect the IR to make this explicit - in which case, a Swedish licence should probably be accepted in the UK (and any other EU State) without further question. The only sticking point might be language endorsements.
In practice, however, things may not be quite so simple, especially where the State also employs ATCOs. The employer may put additional requirements in place to be satisfied by potential employees.
If you go outside the EU, each State will have its own requirements - almost always based around ICAO SARPs. Some States will be happy to accept a European licence as meeting the requirements to work there or for the grant of a national licence; others will want you to do 'conversion' training, or maybe even go through the local straining from scratch.
In reality, getting the licence is only the first step. Doing the job is another thing altogether. You will be far more marketable with some practical experience under your belt (and not just OJT time).
In theory, because your current training is as a minimum 'CCC-compliant', the licence that is issued should be recognised by all other EU States. By the end of the year there will be an Implementing Rule detailing how EASA will manage the issue (and so on) of ATCO licenses - initially it will probably be broadly similar to the European Directive on which each State's current rules are based. As the Directive appeared to be designed to achieve a common European licence, you can probably expect the IR to make this explicit - in which case, a Swedish licence should probably be accepted in the UK (and any other EU State) without further question. The only sticking point might be language endorsements.
In practice, however, things may not be quite so simple, especially where the State also employs ATCOs. The employer may put additional requirements in place to be satisfied by potential employees.
If you go outside the EU, each State will have its own requirements - almost always based around ICAO SARPs. Some States will be happy to accept a European licence as meeting the requirements to work there or for the grant of a national licence; others will want you to do 'conversion' training, or maybe even go through the local straining from scratch.
In reality, getting the licence is only the first step. Doing the job is another thing altogether. You will be far more marketable with some practical experience under your belt (and not just OJT time).
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Thx for the info aldegar, seems like you have alot of changes going on over there, wish you the best.
@Spitoon, I agree with you that an experienced controller will have a greater chance of working outside of sweden then someone with only a student licence. Also that knowing the countries language is important. I know of some countries for example Germany that accepts English only for upperair controllers (i think Holland does the same), but probably if you expect to work there for more than a few years you better learn the official language of the country (which i have no problem with).
Regarding conversion training i have no problem with that. Any idea how long these type of training usually takes?
@Spitoon, I agree with you that an experienced controller will have a greater chance of working outside of sweden then someone with only a student licence. Also that knowing the countries language is important. I know of some countries for example Germany that accepts English only for upperair controllers (i think Holland does the same), but probably if you expect to work there for more than a few years you better learn the official language of the country (which i have no problem with).
Regarding conversion training i have no problem with that. Any idea how long these type of training usually takes?
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Validate your licence and get 5 years experience under your belt, then you can move with a lot more freedom than you can on a student licence. Thats the easiest way, (so to speak). Good luck.
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ATC Scandinavia... thx for the tip, i looked around some but couldnt find much info about norwegian ATCOs. maybe you can help me with some info:
Where are the ATCC workers stationed, and what is the salary between?
by the way do you work in sweden or norway?
Where are the ATCC workers stationed, and what is the salary between?
by the way do you work in sweden or norway?
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Controlcenters in Norway is Bodö, Stavanger and Oslo. I'm not sure about the pay but I guess about 45000 sek to start with! I work in Denmark but as far as I know they only take their own students at the moment.
