Kids controlling at JFK
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Originally Posted by alfaman
Yada yada yada yada yada yada...
But, you already know that, don't you?
But, you already know that, don't you?
Originally Posted by alfaman
- you seriously need to ask that?
Originally Posted by alfaman
*(In fact, I actually think they are a load of nonsense and do nothing except restrict people unnecessarily because of some previously poor OJTI skills. Yet another example of reducing our procedures to the lowest common denominator, rather than addressing the problem directly, but we digress....)
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And now back on subject....
There have been reports that a few kids (at different times) have been controlling at JFK. Also, 1 or 2 controllers have now been suspended. << I wonder if that last part is fact or fiction.
There have been reports that a few kids (at different times) have been controlling at JFK. Also, 1 or 2 controllers have now been suspended. << I wonder if that last part is fact or fiction.
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If he is supervised by a licensed air trafficer, and the readbacks are correct is there really a problem? How different is that from someone undergoing training? I couldnt hear any issues in the audio on the bbc site, flash in a pan methinks...
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MPN11
International or domestic US, - What came first the chicken or the egg? Both have their strengths & weaknesses. And the rest of the world copes just fine when they fly in US airspace. Most aviation people are quite adaptable, but we all have our pet peeves.
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I didnīt think it was a BIG deal, like all the media is playing it to be. Its so sad to see we have become so paranoid. Its obvious the kid is with his dad...cīmon a bit of humour does not kill us. I even heard the pilots having a laugh, understanding the whole thing. Is this worth losing a great controller?
TAIR
TAIR
Alas....some guy is going to lose his hind end over this.....and for no good reason! Some folks in the media and the FAA management need to get their heads out of their butts!
I think it was a hoot....the kid learned something...Dad got to show his young one what he does for a living....no harm....no foul!
I think it was a hoot....the kid learned something...Dad got to show his young one what he does for a living....no harm....no foul!
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i think there is just too much fuzz around it.most of us done things like that. not kids but girlfriends yes.we sing christmas carrol tell jokes, football results and lots of other stuff.my mate once asked 2 b2 pilots if they can make a low pass at lkpr while they were crusing at 390.we had to stop dep. for 5 mins but it was fun. no harm done like at jfk.you cant be ALWAYS serious.
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One of the best photos I took whilst at EGLL was of a Spitfire doing a SE-NW flyby of the VCR. I somehow clicked the shutter just as it was passing over a Lufthansa A300 parked on (the old) stand Golf12.....
But then again, those were the days when you could drive an unmarked white van straight through the British Airways maintenance area and onto the Airside area.
Happier days, when the only Elfs were fuel bowsers and those placed around the windsock. Nowadays it's all Elf and Safety.
But then again, those were the days when you could drive an unmarked white van straight through the British Airways maintenance area and onto the Airside area.
Happier days, when the only Elfs were fuel bowsers and those placed around the windsock. Nowadays it's all Elf and Safety.
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<<what protection is there against some kid with a handheld VHF pretending to the the Tower?>>
None and, in the UK, no restrictions on buying such equipment. I was involved in a loss of separation when someone with, presumably, a handheld transceiver issued "instructions" to traffic I was controlling. It is not funny. When one of my sons was young I took him into a control tower while I was working and he had strict instructions to keep well out of the way and not to touch anything. As for letting a kid talk on a busy ATC frequency - it's lunacy and I don't think it does anything for "professionalism". Would pilots be happy to let a kid sit in and fly their aeroplane? Ooooooppps.. sorry; it did happen once, didn't it? And a lot of people got dead all of a sudden.
Next time you have a surgical operation, think to yourself: "Wonder if it's the surgeon's kid doing it?"
None and, in the UK, no restrictions on buying such equipment. I was involved in a loss of separation when someone with, presumably, a handheld transceiver issued "instructions" to traffic I was controlling. It is not funny. When one of my sons was young I took him into a control tower while I was working and he had strict instructions to keep well out of the way and not to touch anything. As for letting a kid talk on a busy ATC frequency - it's lunacy and I don't think it does anything for "professionalism". Would pilots be happy to let a kid sit in and fly their aeroplane? Ooooooppps.. sorry; it did happen once, didn't it? And a lot of people got dead all of a sudden.
Next time you have a surgical operation, think to yourself: "Wonder if it's the surgeon's kid doing it?"
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I can't believe some of the totally irresponsible comments on here. You're dealing with peoples' lives, or have you all forgotten that small fact?
Unless the person is properly authorised it is illegal to use ATC radio equipment. Do pilots allow their kids to fly their aeroplane? Oh yes, so one did.... and what happened? Everyone ended up dead.
Unless the person is properly authorised it is illegal to use ATC radio equipment. Do pilots allow their kids to fly their aeroplane? Oh yes, so one did.... and what happened? Everyone ended up dead.
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I am amazed at the people siding with the controller who let his kid get on the radio, maybe they should let their brain operations done by the 8 year old son of their local neurosurgeon. As long as daddy supervises the operation its ok I guess??
Talk about professionalism.................
Talk about professionalism.................
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its not the same is it. you dont have to train to say what youve been told to say like the kid did and comparing it to brain operation by kid under supervision is simply stupid.
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I'm definately with the controller on this one.
As controllers we undergo countless hours of training (200h + in sim, 600h+ OJT) and gain tons of experience when working... A bucketload of "SAFETY" is molded to our backbones, and while working this is REALLY the number one priority.
Every single day we take lots of operational decisions, and every single one is passed by our "safety filter" before it's put into action. I am certain that the ATCO in question did exactly this before letting the kid "parrot" for a few moments.
I've listened to the audio-clip and it does not appear to be a busy situation. Regarding the juridical aspect I have no clue, but I am 100% certain that it was 100 % SAFE all the way. The instructions from the kid could not be misunderstood in any way, and the ATCO in question had him on a short leash, being able to take over in an instant if anything out of the ordinary happened.
my 2 c.
As controllers we undergo countless hours of training (200h + in sim, 600h+ OJT) and gain tons of experience when working... A bucketload of "SAFETY" is molded to our backbones, and while working this is REALLY the number one priority.
Every single day we take lots of operational decisions, and every single one is passed by our "safety filter" before it's put into action. I am certain that the ATCO in question did exactly this before letting the kid "parrot" for a few moments.
I've listened to the audio-clip and it does not appear to be a busy situation. Regarding the juridical aspect I have no clue, but I am 100% certain that it was 100 % SAFE all the way. The instructions from the kid could not be misunderstood in any way, and the ATCO in question had him on a short leash, being able to take over in an instant if anything out of the ordinary happened.
my 2 c.
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So where ARE you going to draw the line, boys & girls?
12 year-old, or younger, sat on mum/dad's lap 'driving' a 40-tonne artic/bus?
Or the 12.30 London to Glasgow non-stop train?
How about the space shuttle?
As an ADULT, you are examined, trained and tested repeatedly because you
have demonstrated the ability to cope from the time you said, 'I'd like to be
a ...... (whatever your job interest is)', until retirement.
Take youngsters to work, subject management agreement, show them what you do. It's what fires their interest, keeps them keen.
But also show them the adult world of responsibilities, don't let them grow up too fast, too soon.
To do so is irresponsible and you are failing them.
12 year-old, or younger, sat on mum/dad's lap 'driving' a 40-tonne artic/bus?
Or the 12.30 London to Glasgow non-stop train?
How about the space shuttle?
As an ADULT, you are examined, trained and tested repeatedly because you
have demonstrated the ability to cope from the time you said, 'I'd like to be
a ...... (whatever your job interest is)', until retirement.
Take youngsters to work, subject management agreement, show them what you do. It's what fires their interest, keeps them keen.
But also show them the adult world of responsibilities, don't let them grow up too fast, too soon.
To do so is irresponsible and you are failing them.
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Unless the person is properly authorised it is illegal to use ATC radio equipment.