Snow in the UK En-route environment
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
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How quickly people forget all the early go's they get in the winter. Or maybe they think they are a right, not a privilege...
So what, we have to work harder in the summer...
If I had my way I'd have a period of a month whereby no one got an early go, just to remind peope of the perks. I have actually mentioned the idea to management before, not sure if they took me seriously or not (probably not, but that's just my sphere of non influence), but it might just focus some people's minds.
So what, we have to work harder in the summer...
If I had my way I'd have a period of a month whereby no one got an early go, just to remind peope of the perks. I have actually mentioned the idea to management before, not sure if they took me seriously or not (probably not, but that's just my sphere of non influence), but it might just focus some people's minds.
Naughty but Nice
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern England
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I'm incredibly lucky (or unlucky, depending on how you view it!) and I live locally to Swanwick. I simply put on my big boots and walk to walk.
I just wanted to add my thanks and pride in my colleagues around who have made significant efforts in very difficult conditions to get in to work and provide an excellent service to all our customers who were having to deal with the effects of the snow as well. Our first morning was full of diversions with airports gradually becoming more and more full, and the traffic flows have been unusual and at times unpredictable. Everyone has worked together really well to make the best of a bad situation.
I'm proud to work with you all. You show great spirit and professionalism and remind me what I really like about this job.
AS my name suggests, I'm from a place where this happens more frequently, and people just get on with their lives; in all honesty the south really does seem less able to cope with it, probably just because it doesn't have to very often. It still makes me smile, but it doesn't lessen the effort people have made to keep things going.
Sending the non-essential staff home was a sensible thing to do in the conditions at the time; after all, if they had got stuck that would have been more people to have to look after, find places to stay for, and feed; however galling that may appear to those of us who are essential. Their work will still remain to be done when they return; if we'd run out of staff in the ops room we would have had to stop traffic and would have done... The leave issue is a sensitive one; I understand the reasons behind it but feel that there are better ways to handle it. Hopefully that is being thought about at the moment.
Just try to remember that everyone was thinking on the hop; Management realise that they need to be better prepared for situations like this now and will hopefully learn from the experience.
In the meantime, huge thanks and congratulations to everyone who has worked so hard to keep things going.
Drive safe now!
Cheers,
Northerner
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to...."
I just wanted to add my thanks and pride in my colleagues around who have made significant efforts in very difficult conditions to get in to work and provide an excellent service to all our customers who were having to deal with the effects of the snow as well. Our first morning was full of diversions with airports gradually becoming more and more full, and the traffic flows have been unusual and at times unpredictable. Everyone has worked together really well to make the best of a bad situation.
I'm proud to work with you all. You show great spirit and professionalism and remind me what I really like about this job.
AS my name suggests, I'm from a place where this happens more frequently, and people just get on with their lives; in all honesty the south really does seem less able to cope with it, probably just because it doesn't have to very often. It still makes me smile, but it doesn't lessen the effort people have made to keep things going.
Sending the non-essential staff home was a sensible thing to do in the conditions at the time; after all, if they had got stuck that would have been more people to have to look after, find places to stay for, and feed; however galling that may appear to those of us who are essential. Their work will still remain to be done when they return; if we'd run out of staff in the ops room we would have had to stop traffic and would have done... The leave issue is a sensitive one; I understand the reasons behind it but feel that there are better ways to handle it. Hopefully that is being thought about at the moment.
Just try to remember that everyone was thinking on the hop; Management realise that they need to be better prepared for situations like this now and will hopefully learn from the experience.
In the meantime, huge thanks and congratulations to everyone who has worked so hard to keep things going.
Drive safe now!
Cheers,
Northerner
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to...."
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: wimborne
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westendboy- well done you , first name terms with them all. Its sycophants like you who make the place a far less pleasant environment to work in now. As for your supercillious remarks about the north sea controllers , I was there when they were made and you have taken them completely out of context. May I suggest you show more loyalty towards your colleagues. They will still be around you when Paul , Mark , Simon etc. are gone. They may be good managers but by their nature are transient. You would do well to remember that and develop the respect for your ops room colleagues which you are sadly lacking. The days of crawling your way into management are slowly going which is about the only good thing about the brave new world which is NATS. Judging by your pprune name I dont get to work with you which can only be a good thing. I wouldnt like to have to trust you when the chips are down.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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westendboy- are you surprised? Its a team game remember and your team , in the first instance , are your fellow atco's and atsa's in the ops room. never mind we all make mistakes and hopefully you too have learnt lessons! 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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5 miles,
I've been a bit slow replying because I've been out shovelling the white stuff.
You need all weather tyres (not snow tyres)such as Michelin Pilot Alpine,or similar.They are designed to run when the temp is below +10c,in the wet,dry,or snow.They are worth every penny,and might save your neck on a greasy road.Get a spare set of steel rims,and you can use them over several winters.A 4x4 on baldy tyres isn't what it's cracked up to be.Just a heavier out of control sledge.
In Germany for example,it's the law that you use all weathers in winter.Lots of people have them in this neck of the woods.
After all in F1 when it rains,they change tyres.With a standard car tyre in snow,the groves fill up,and it becomes a slick.
Anyway I'll crawl back into my igloo,and watch the experts slither around,complaining as usual.
I've been a bit slow replying because I've been out shovelling the white stuff.
You need all weather tyres (not snow tyres)such as Michelin Pilot Alpine,or similar.They are designed to run when the temp is below +10c,in the wet,dry,or snow.They are worth every penny,and might save your neck on a greasy road.Get a spare set of steel rims,and you can use them over several winters.A 4x4 on baldy tyres isn't what it's cracked up to be.Just a heavier out of control sledge.
In Germany for example,it's the law that you use all weathers in winter.Lots of people have them in this neck of the woods.
After all in F1 when it rains,they change tyres.With a standard car tyre in snow,the groves fill up,and it becomes a slick.
Anyway I'll crawl back into my igloo,and watch the experts slither around,complaining as usual.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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westendboy .
Once upon a time I was a naiive newly valid ATCO at West Drayton and one of my OJTIs shortly after I validated told me how things really were.You seem to be at the "glass half full and only going to get fuller" stage of your career.Wake up and smell your headset!
What we were asked was if we would volunteer to stay on until operations could be wound down if the night shift couldn't/didn't get in (no time given),then stay locally and start back at 0630 Wednesday morning shift.All for a whole "half day in lieu".At one point we were told rooms booked by NATS had been taken by CTC staff who couldn't get home so they would heat up the "night accommadation".Great, except people hadn't come equipped to spend a night away from home and there are no provisions within Swanwick to cover all this . Understandable .
Nobody would walk away from their sector if the night shift couldn't get in until airspace had been wound down and shut .NATS got dispensation for us to go out of hours and come back early thereby breaking SCRATCOH.The snow and conditions weren't the fault of management but neither were they our fault .I can fully understand and support comments made about being paid extra for going the extra mile . It might not be a popular view with all but NATS wants to operate as a commercial profit making business therefore sometimes they might have to pay that bit extra for that "bit extra"!After all it is the ATCOs,ATSAs and Engineers that keep things running on weekends/evenings/bank holidays/christmas and new year and nights.NATS believes goodwill should only work one way unfortunately.
The problem is NATS (particularly in the last few years) hasn't valued us highly enough and thereby by atrition neither have our unions ,and even worse when i read comments like yours,some of our own colleagues !
Once upon a time I was a naiive newly valid ATCO at West Drayton and one of my OJTIs shortly after I validated told me how things really were.You seem to be at the "glass half full and only going to get fuller" stage of your career.Wake up and smell your headset!
What we were asked was if we would volunteer to stay on until operations could be wound down if the night shift couldn't/didn't get in (no time given),then stay locally and start back at 0630 Wednesday morning shift.All for a whole "half day in lieu".At one point we were told rooms booked by NATS had been taken by CTC staff who couldn't get home so they would heat up the "night accommadation".Great, except people hadn't come equipped to spend a night away from home and there are no provisions within Swanwick to cover all this . Understandable .
Nobody would walk away from their sector if the night shift couldn't get in until airspace had been wound down and shut .NATS got dispensation for us to go out of hours and come back early thereby breaking SCRATCOH.The snow and conditions weren't the fault of management but neither were they our fault .I can fully understand and support comments made about being paid extra for going the extra mile . It might not be a popular view with all but NATS wants to operate as a commercial profit making business therefore sometimes they might have to pay that bit extra for that "bit extra"!After all it is the ATCOs,ATSAs and Engineers that keep things running on weekends/evenings/bank holidays/christmas and new year and nights.NATS believes goodwill should only work one way unfortunately.
The problem is NATS (particularly in the last few years) hasn't valued us highly enough and thereby by atrition neither have our unions ,and even worse when i read comments like yours,some of our own colleagues !
Join Date: Mar 2008
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So, westendboy, if you are back in wed am at 630 maybe you want to pop over to North and East and explain why we should work for nothing.
I'm sure those people that got the extra half day in lieu will be able to take it when they want to and not when forced to!
I'm guessing once the traffic picks up you'll be first in the queue for the overtime
I'm sure those people that got the extra half day in lieu will be able to take it when they want to and not when forced to!
I'm guessing once the traffic picks up you'll be first in the queue for the overtime
Join Date: May 2007
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I think people were well within their rights to ask for financial compensation for staying on. If management weren't up for that, they could always say no. A half day in lieu is useless. people get a half day for having their bloody medical on a day off. or coming in for some poxy meeting about nothing. These situations are not comparable with being asked to stay on and work in a non standard situation for an unknown amount of time all the time not knowing how you will get home or to your hotel?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Count up all the minutes of early go's you get in a year (decent early go's circa 30 mins plus - lets not faff about) and I bet you get a hell of a lot more than half a day (4 hours).
What with getting away early on afternoons during winter and on spin shifts, I'd bet it easily amounted to a few days worth per year.
I know that it would be petty to keep people towards the end of the shift if they are not needed, but it is what we are contracted to do... All the early go's are dependant on the goodwill of management. Goodwill works both ways...
There are some things that NATS could improve on, but the local perks we get are better than you'd get in a real job.
What with getting away early on afternoons during winter and on spin shifts, I'd bet it easily amounted to a few days worth per year.
I know that it would be petty to keep people towards the end of the shift if they are not needed, but it is what we are contracted to do... All the early go's are dependant on the goodwill of management. Goodwill works both ways...
There are some things that NATS could improve on, but the local perks we get are better than you'd get in a real job.
Join Date: May 2003
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Early go's (sic) are one thing, asking people to come in and do extra shifts when they will potentially be breaking SRATCOH is quite another.
Management did not show much goodwill cornering people into taking annual leave when they simply could not get into work on Wednesday - an attitude which was irresponsible at best under the circumstances.
Like you say, goodwill works both ways and management could well find volunteers harder to come by if there is a next time...
LTP
Management did not show much goodwill cornering people into taking annual leave when they simply could not get into work on Wednesday - an attitude which was irresponsible at best under the circumstances.
Like you say, goodwill works both ways and management could well find volunteers harder to come by if there is a next time...
LTP
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I understand the concept of just how good early go's are but it is not practical to keep people right up to 10pm on an afternoon shift as there is not the traffic to keep sectors split and therefore use these extra bods.
I would be happy to stay at work until 10pm, like you say it is what i'm contracted to do, but there is not a hope in hell the sector would be bandboxed. I would be feet up with 2 strips talking to someone with 2 strips also feet up next to me etc etc.
I have heard in the past, that there was a possibility that atcos would be made to do office type work (emails and stuff) if not needed in the ops room. As you can probably tell from my sometimes dodgy spelling on here, I'm not trained to type on a PC.
Then of course there is the goodwill of being above MUR, which at a guess, 60%???? in the ops room are.
Just who would staff east and capital?
I think it is to be commended that people offered to stay. I am somewhat surprised that people were so willing though.
I would be happy to stay at work until 10pm, like you say it is what i'm contracted to do, but there is not a hope in hell the sector would be bandboxed. I would be feet up with 2 strips talking to someone with 2 strips also feet up next to me etc etc.
I have heard in the past, that there was a possibility that atcos would be made to do office type work (emails and stuff) if not needed in the ops room. As you can probably tell from my sometimes dodgy spelling on here, I'm not trained to type on a PC.
Then of course there is the goodwill of being above MUR, which at a guess, 60%???? in the ops room are.
Just who would staff east and capital?
I think it is to be commended that people offered to stay. I am somewhat surprised that people were so willing though.
Naughty but Nice
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I'm not surprised that people offered to stay. The vast majority of controllers I know are there to talk to the planes; the thought of leaving them without a service when they could help would mean that many I know would definitely offer to stay, or come in and help. I don't think that has anything particular to do with how they feel about management, but about how professional and dedicated they are.
Cheers,
Northerner
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
Cheers,
Northerner
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
