Keep clear of controlled airspace!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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"ROCAS" didn't help ATC yesterday regarding another LHR zone bust by a C152 as it apparently wasn't on frequency.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Gonzo, I fully understand your point that it is not just Part 1 we are looking at. As I have said before, despite repeated asking on this thread, nobody has provided any supporting evidence for the repeated use of "ROCAS" being required by any unit's Part 2, or by TOI, SI, ATSIN, AIC, CAP or by any other means of promulgating such a change in phraseology or technique. Even the recent SI 2008/02 did nothing except to emphasise the need to comply with the requirements for the appropriate use of "ROCAS", which are set out in Sec.3, Ch.1, para. 21 of MATS Part 1.
Untill its removed I will continue to do this.
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What exactly is required with regard to "ROCAS" by your MATS Part 2? Does it say it is required in any different circumstances from those which are set out in Sec.3, Ch.1, para. 21 of MATS Part 1?
JD
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Yes slightly different. Due to the restrictions in airspace, any aircraft routing north from us are to be transferred to a particular frequency and instructed to remain outside cas. Thats not the exact quote, because Im on Holiday 
I reread what I wrote, and I think I only inferred it was there.
I reread what I wrote, and I think I only inferred it was there.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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And that is probably one of the situations where routine use of ROCAS makes sense. An aircraft in class G routing (probably climbing) underneath low Class A being handed off to the authority controlling the Class A seems like a classic situation for an error to be made where the pilot 'thinks' he is OK to enter controlled airspace.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Quote:
Also, in my opinion, any infringing pilot who is traced and it can be proved that they were responsible should have their flying licence immediatly removed!!!
As others have said, would you expect the same rule to apply to ATCOs who make operational errors ? If not, why not ? The effects on air safety due to the ATCO error could be exactly the same. Maybe YOUR licence would be pulled some day and your job lost.
Also, in my opinion, any infringing pilot who is traced and it can be proved that they were responsible should have their flying licence immediatly removed!!!
As others have said, would you expect the same rule to apply to ATCOs who make operational errors ? If not, why not ? The effects on air safety due to the ATCO error could be exactly the same. Maybe YOUR licence would be pulled some day and your job lost.
My livelihood as an ATCO depends on continuing good performance in my chosen profession. A bank manager/road sweeper/kitchen fitter etc who flies for fun has no such worry. I can lose my licence if my performance is not up to scratch. However, there seems to be little regulation or penalties for bad performance visited upon the 'weekend fliers' out there.
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Standard Noise you have clearly never been "investigated" by the CAA if you can make such a statement. Not only can a licence be suspended or revoked the sheer cost of defence against the mighty and unnaccountable CAA for any GA pilot can be extraordinary. If they find they have made a "mistake" in bringing a prosecution it is simply withdrawn and one is still left with the cost. If an investigation is shown to be wrong and nothing untoward ever took place then the best one can hope for is a letter from the CAA with a single line saying "this case is now closed"
StandupfortheUlstermen
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I'm not a pilot so no, I haven't been investigated by the CAA for a flying 'offence'. I will however, admit to having made a professional error as an ATCO and been interviewed/investigated by the relevant authorities.
It was in my younger days and I thought I would lose my licence and therefore my livelihood. That is quite different to not being able to knob about in a Pa28 just for fun.
Should I be the cause of an incident which requires legal action by the CAA then I may find myself in the position you describe. If you read my earlier post in the thread, I give a typical example of what ATCOs see when they file a report against a GA pilot who breaks the rules.
That said, you have managed to miss the point of my post.
It was in my younger days and I thought I would lose my licence and therefore my livelihood. That is quite different to not being able to knob about in a Pa28 just for fun.
Should I be the cause of an incident which requires legal action by the CAA then I may find myself in the position you describe. If you read my earlier post in the thread, I give a typical example of what ATCOs see when they file a report against a GA pilot who breaks the rules.
That said, you have managed to miss the point of my post.
