South African ATC
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Oh dear....................................fragility........... .......................!?!
None-the-less, major sporting events aside, my experience there and knowledge of the level of discipline SA ATCO's as operatives embody, will ensure that whatever evolves, be it a bungled utilization of Internationals or face-the-storm alone, ultimately post event I am certain once again many accolades for dedication and performance will be forth-coming. The internal remuneration impasse, well I would imagine hinges quite delicately on the essential services tag being lifted or not..........
A bonus during WC '10 as a country would be to have Bafana bafana do well, what their chances are...I have no real idea (not a soccer/football officionado I am more of a amabokkebokke person), but both events will be followed closely.
All the best Guy's - ciao, ciao.
None-the-less, major sporting events aside, my experience there and knowledge of the level of discipline SA ATCO's as operatives embody, will ensure that whatever evolves, be it a bungled utilization of Internationals or face-the-storm alone, ultimately post event I am certain once again many accolades for dedication and performance will be forth-coming. The internal remuneration impasse, well I would imagine hinges quite delicately on the essential services tag being lifted or not..........
A bonus during WC '10 as a country would be to have Bafana bafana do well, what their chances are...I have no real idea (not a soccer/football officionado I am more of a amabokkebokke person), but both events will be followed closely.
All the best Guy's - ciao, ciao.
Join Date: May 2004
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Oh dear,oh dear
Big hello to my ex co-workers. (used to work for ATNS area north and south 2003-2005).
Well guys, at least you have to admit that ATNS is very resiliant to change. NOTHING has changed since i've left.
Great memories though, miss that aftershifts at the pub's around
Sorry, i do not intend to hijack the thread, i just want to give my full support to all ATC's overthere, whatever they decide should be their course of action.
Biggest simpathy goes of course to the area north and south -Kupus (or maybe they have changed their name in the meanwhile?)
Cheers, and keep them separated.
D.
Well guys, at least you have to admit that ATNS is very resiliant to change. NOTHING has changed since i've left.
Great memories though, miss that aftershifts at the pub's around
Sorry, i do not intend to hijack the thread, i just want to give my full support to all ATC's overthere, whatever they decide should be their course of action.
Biggest simpathy goes of course to the area north and south -Kupus (or maybe they have changed their name in the meanwhile?)
Cheers, and keep them separated.
D.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Don't worry guys and gals the 10 teachers (yes you read right teachers!!) for the ATA that ATNS has managed to recruit with the help of New Zealand will address all our problems. Rumour is they will be going to NZ for 4 months to do tower courses then come back and pass the SA assessments before experiencing actual controlling for a year or two and finally train the new ATC's at the ATA.
Funny thing is that when SD tried to send experienced tower ATC's to the UK to do the radar course on Eurocat it was turned down by the Execs as being too expensive. Other reasons included lack of consultation with the ATA Exec etc etc. Would have cut the validation time short by at least a month as the system interaction is done whilst training. How much will this teacher exercise cost ATNS? I also seem to recall another such stunt a few years ago with not one of the intended ATA instructors ever making it to the ATA.
Funny thing is that when SD tried to send experienced tower ATC's to the UK to do the radar course on Eurocat it was turned down by the Execs as being too expensive. Other reasons included lack of consultation with the ATA Exec etc etc. Would have cut the validation time short by at least a month as the system interaction is done whilst training. How much will this teacher exercise cost ATNS? I also seem to recall another such stunt a few years ago with not one of the intended ATA instructors ever making it to the ATA.
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Finally someone talking numbers...
Wow, good luck guys.
SA's World Cup challenges
November 30 2009
Reuters have compiled a list of challenges SA faces as we prepare to host the 2010 World Cup. They are listed below.
But there are many things SA can offer. Post in the comments section just what you think those are.
The World Cup draw on Friday starts the final countdown to the globe's most watched event but South Africa must still overcome crucial challenges if it is to win the huge kudos of hosting a successful tournament.
Unlike the hosts of several Olympics and World Cups in the past, South Africa is well on schedule to complete the 10 stadiums, five of them impressive new arenas. They are all expected to be ready by the end of this year, six months before the tournament starts.
Other challenges remain, however:
SECURITY
South Africa is one of the most dangerous countries outside a war zone, with more than 18,000 murders a year and one of the world's highest rates of rape, causing deep concern among both officials and fans about the risks of coming to this country. The rate of 50 murders a day is slightly more than the United States which has six times the population.
World Cup chief Danny Jordaan and police officials say, however, that South Africa has successfully organised many international sporting and other events and welcomes 9.5 million tourists a year. They say protecting fans, players and officials is a much more finite and manageable task than combating random common crime. More than 50,000 officers, more than a quarter of the force, will provide security, backed by new hardware including pilotless drones and helicopters.
South African police have been trained by French gendarmes in techniques to control soccer hooligans and have prepared for terrorism - considered a low risk here because of the country's non-aligned credentials. However, the presence of the United States and England, among other nations, could be a target, police say.
TRANSPORT
Soccer's ruling body, Fifa, raised concerns after the Confederations Cup last June about the key issues of transport and accommodation capacity for the World Cup.
South Africa lacks the extensive and efficient rail network that made travel easy at the last World Cup in Germany. But the population has stoically accepted huge traffic disruption to build a network of new roads and the Gautrain, a high-speed rail link around Johannesburg and Pretoria.
A modern new bus service is also being built to provide transport for township dwellers left stranded under apartheid, who were obliged to rely on dangerous and sometimes violent minibus operators. World Cup fans are expected to use the mass transit service to reach stadiums.
Jordaan says 200 additional planes and a thousand new buses will be mobilised for the World Cup, but final planning cannot begin until the draw reveals where the big teams and their fans will be. Fifa has established a complex plan to bus and fly fans from big accommodation centres to small venues such as Polokwane on match days.
ACCOMMODATION
Some 450,000 foreign fans are expected for the World Cup and any thoughts of camping out in most venues would be a mistake. Much of the World Cup, the first to be held in winter since Argentina in 1978, will be played at altitude in South Africa's highveldt, where evening temperatures could be bitter.
There is a cumulative shortfall of around 46,000 rooms so far but Jordaan says this counts only graded hotel accommodation. The shortage can be met by using smaller hotels, guest houses, university and school hostels, he says. The rich visitor can even enjoy beaches in Mauritius and fly in for a match, under the Fifa plan, but that would involve a round trip of around 17 hours.
Many South Africans are hoping to move out of their homes and let rooms at high prices to foreign visitors.
ECONOMY
World Cup construction has fuelled a building boom that has insulated South Africa, the continent's biggest economy, from some of the worst effects of the global economic crisis. But stadium building was dogged by strikes and many black South Africans are angry about lack of infrastructure 15 years after the end of apartheid.
There have also been concerns about power supply to meet additional need during the World Cup. Rising electricity demand in an expanding economy and lack of investment in generation capacity almost caused the national grid to collapse early last year, when there were weeks of rolling power cuts. But both analysts and the state power utility Eskom say they have capacity to avoid blackouts during the tournament. As backup, all World Cup stadiums have their own generators under Fifa requirements. - Reuters
November 30 2009
Reuters have compiled a list of challenges SA faces as we prepare to host the 2010 World Cup. They are listed below.
But there are many things SA can offer. Post in the comments section just what you think those are.
The World Cup draw on Friday starts the final countdown to the globe's most watched event but South Africa must still overcome crucial challenges if it is to win the huge kudos of hosting a successful tournament.
Unlike the hosts of several Olympics and World Cups in the past, South Africa is well on schedule to complete the 10 stadiums, five of them impressive new arenas. They are all expected to be ready by the end of this year, six months before the tournament starts.
Other challenges remain, however:
SECURITY
South Africa is one of the most dangerous countries outside a war zone, with more than 18,000 murders a year and one of the world's highest rates of rape, causing deep concern among both officials and fans about the risks of coming to this country. The rate of 50 murders a day is slightly more than the United States which has six times the population.
World Cup chief Danny Jordaan and police officials say, however, that South Africa has successfully organised many international sporting and other events and welcomes 9.5 million tourists a year. They say protecting fans, players and officials is a much more finite and manageable task than combating random common crime. More than 50,000 officers, more than a quarter of the force, will provide security, backed by new hardware including pilotless drones and helicopters.
South African police have been trained by French gendarmes in techniques to control soccer hooligans and have prepared for terrorism - considered a low risk here because of the country's non-aligned credentials. However, the presence of the United States and England, among other nations, could be a target, police say.
TRANSPORT
Soccer's ruling body, Fifa, raised concerns after the Confederations Cup last June about the key issues of transport and accommodation capacity for the World Cup.
South Africa lacks the extensive and efficient rail network that made travel easy at the last World Cup in Germany. But the population has stoically accepted huge traffic disruption to build a network of new roads and the Gautrain, a high-speed rail link around Johannesburg and Pretoria.
A modern new bus service is also being built to provide transport for township dwellers left stranded under apartheid, who were obliged to rely on dangerous and sometimes violent minibus operators. World Cup fans are expected to use the mass transit service to reach stadiums.
Jordaan says 200 additional planes and a thousand new buses will be mobilised for the World Cup, but final planning cannot begin until the draw reveals where the big teams and their fans will be. Fifa has established a complex plan to bus and fly fans from big accommodation centres to small venues such as Polokwane on match days.
ACCOMMODATION
Some 450,000 foreign fans are expected for the World Cup and any thoughts of camping out in most venues would be a mistake. Much of the World Cup, the first to be held in winter since Argentina in 1978, will be played at altitude in South Africa's highveldt, where evening temperatures could be bitter.
There is a cumulative shortfall of around 46,000 rooms so far but Jordaan says this counts only graded hotel accommodation. The shortage can be met by using smaller hotels, guest houses, university and school hostels, he says. The rich visitor can even enjoy beaches in Mauritius and fly in for a match, under the Fifa plan, but that would involve a round trip of around 17 hours.
Many South Africans are hoping to move out of their homes and let rooms at high prices to foreign visitors.
ECONOMY
World Cup construction has fuelled a building boom that has insulated South Africa, the continent's biggest economy, from some of the worst effects of the global economic crisis. But stadium building was dogged by strikes and many black South Africans are angry about lack of infrastructure 15 years after the end of apartheid.
There have also been concerns about power supply to meet additional need during the World Cup. Rising electricity demand in an expanding economy and lack of investment in generation capacity almost caused the national grid to collapse early last year, when there were weeks of rolling power cuts. But both analysts and the state power utility Eskom say they have capacity to avoid blackouts during the tournament. As backup, all World Cup stadiums have their own generators under Fifa requirements. - Reuters
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Stuart Ratcliffe was qouted in the World Airnews sometime during 2006 rearding people that will be travelling to SA, as well as additional ACFT (B737) numbers needed to handle the extra persons.
He said that 300 000 people would visit SA, and a few months later it was ammended to 400 000. This despite the fact that 3 million people attended the soccer spectacle in Gemany.
The amount of extra flight would total in the region of 196 for Gauteng, 80 odd for KZN, and 60 for the Cape region. These would be extra flights per day.
Now it's rumoured that Mr. Ratcliffe will be leaving these sunny shores, take his toll, and go and work in that States, all before the SWC!
I wonder how ATNS's Excell spreadsheet is coming along to accomodate all theses extra flights? I'm sure we are not to worry, because Mr. Dibate (aka Hein Reid) will be re-working the stats anyway!!
Well then, God Bless us all!!!!
He said that 300 000 people would visit SA, and a few months later it was ammended to 400 000. This despite the fact that 3 million people attended the soccer spectacle in Gemany.
The amount of extra flight would total in the region of 196 for Gauteng, 80 odd for KZN, and 60 for the Cape region. These would be extra flights per day.
Now it's rumoured that Mr. Ratcliffe will be leaving these sunny shores, take his toll, and go and work in that States, all before the SWC!
I wonder how ATNS's Excell spreadsheet is coming along to accomodate all theses extra flights? I'm sure we are not to worry, because Mr. Dibate (aka Hein Reid) will be re-working the stats anyway!!
Well then, God Bless us all!!!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Place your bet
UHHHH ok Late 1976 ,you heard the rumour as well!! Where there is smoke there is fire......
So com'on place a bet.From poolmanagers upwards-how many resignations before March 2010????
I stand with my six - 2 down already!
So com'on place a bet.From poolmanagers upwards-how many resignations before March 2010????
I stand with my six - 2 down already!
Join Date: Oct 2005
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ATNS good planning
Don't worry, we will get another request from some old ATC that sits at HO to do another spreadsheet exercise for their so called planning
Another one I heard is that they appointed the new Pool Manager for PE as the current one is retiring, but they are still trying to extend his contract for the SWC
(time is running out)
The new one is obvoiusly BEE (allmost 4 years ATC experience) and he is still based in EL, they don't have a release ATC for him yet. So to avoid embarressment because they already had the interviews they appointed him as from OCT/NOV with his new paycheck but still sitting in EL (great planning ATNS)
Another one I heard is that they appointed the new Pool Manager for PE as the current one is retiring, but they are still trying to extend his contract for the SWC
(time is running out) The new one is obvoiusly BEE (allmost 4 years ATC experience) and he is still based in EL, they don't have a release ATC for him yet. So to avoid embarressment because they already had the interviews they appointed him as from OCT/NOV with his new paycheck but still sitting in EL (great planning ATNS)
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In the local media this morning
Air traffic service to employ foreigners in 2010
Trade union Solidarity has called on the Air Traffic and Navigation Service (ATNS) to address staff shortages by reviewing air traffic controllers salaries and working conditions.
ATNS said it would employ foreign controllers to help cope with the tourist rush during next year’s FIFA World Cup, sparking a backlash from the local sector.
It is defending the move by saying the foreigners are being called in to ensure safe air travel, but Solidarity believes it is scrambling to fill gaps caused by years of poor employment ethics.
The service’s Anna Sanfillipo said it it needed 20 percent more staff to cope with the influx of tourists next year.
"This is largely due to the requirement for 24-hour operations at airports where normally only 12-hour operations are provided," said Sanfillipo.
However, Solidarity’s Jaco Kleynhans said ATNS would have the staff it needed for 2010 if it improved salaries and working conditions.
Talks between the union and ATNS, aimed at improving working conditions for local air traffic controllers, are continuing but this is not expected to solve the staff shortage in time for the 2010 tourist rush.
Trade union Solidarity has called on the Air Traffic and Navigation Service (ATNS) to address staff shortages by reviewing air traffic controllers salaries and working conditions.
ATNS said it would employ foreign controllers to help cope with the tourist rush during next year’s FIFA World Cup, sparking a backlash from the local sector.
It is defending the move by saying the foreigners are being called in to ensure safe air travel, but Solidarity believes it is scrambling to fill gaps caused by years of poor employment ethics.
The service’s Anna Sanfillipo said it it needed 20 percent more staff to cope with the influx of tourists next year.
"This is largely due to the requirement for 24-hour operations at airports where normally only 12-hour operations are provided," said Sanfillipo.
However, Solidarity’s Jaco Kleynhans said ATNS would have the staff it needed for 2010 if it improved salaries and working conditions.
Talks between the union and ATNS, aimed at improving working conditions for local air traffic controllers, are continuing but this is not expected to solve the staff shortage in time for the 2010 tourist rush.
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Too little, too late!!!
In my opinion, it's too little, too late. This by both ATNS and Solidarity!
Solidarity has for too long left many ATC's in the lurch.
Take for instance the current situation with the poor ATC's in Upington. Where was Solidarity when the buggers (ATC's) were advised of their new situation by ATNS. As I understand, Solidatity only came to the party when someone at JS pointed the situation out to them.
Now I know what you're saying: "Why did the ATC's at Upington not make Solidairity aware of their situation when it occured?" The perception among many "outstation" ATC's is that Solidarity doesn't care about anyone outside of Jo'burg. Whether this is true or not, I cannot say.
I personally think that Solidarity, their representative, or both are completely and utterly ineffectual. It's like having ovaries when you're a guy!!
Solidarity has for too long left many ATC's in the lurch.
Take for instance the current situation with the poor ATC's in Upington. Where was Solidarity when the buggers (ATC's) were advised of their new situation by ATNS. As I understand, Solidatity only came to the party when someone at JS pointed the situation out to them.
Now I know what you're saying: "Why did the ATC's at Upington not make Solidairity aware of their situation when it occured?" The perception among many "outstation" ATC's is that Solidarity doesn't care about anyone outside of Jo'burg. Whether this is true or not, I cannot say.
I personally think that Solidarity, their representative, or both are completely and utterly ineffectual. It's like having ovaries when you're a guy!!
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Juggie1,
Who has resigned, and who are the first two to resign?
Maybe you should up your bet. I guess it would be easier (as management) to resign, rather than face the music post 2010.
Who has resigned, and who are the first two to resign?
Maybe you should up your bet. I guess it would be easier (as management) to resign, rather than face the music post 2010.
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Soladarity
I have to wonder under what mandate they have gone into the negotiations. Considering that we were asked to vote. the results of the vote is known and we all know what increase bracket most members wanted.
Suddenly, we are informed through ATNS's Chief negotiater, (who is doing a very good job of keeping everyone informed of the latest developments), that Soladarity dropped their demand to 10.5%. Maybe I am not good at maths, but how do they go from 17% to 10.5%. While ATNS went from 8% to 10%. Then they put it to their members to decide:
1. Accept the company's offer of 10%
or
2. Go to arbitration for 10.5%
What a joke!!
Should they not have consulted with their members before dropping their demand to 10.5%?
I think that Soladarity is misleading their members.
Well that is just my opinion.
Suddenly, we are informed through ATNS's Chief negotiater, (who is doing a very good job of keeping everyone informed of the latest developments), that Soladarity dropped their demand to 10.5%. Maybe I am not good at maths, but how do they go from 17% to 10.5%. While ATNS went from 8% to 10%. Then they put it to their members to decide:
1. Accept the company's offer of 10%
or
2. Go to arbitration for 10.5%
What a joke!!
Should they not have consulted with their members before dropping their demand to 10.5%?
I think that Soladarity is misleading their members.
Well that is just my opinion.
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resignation
Late 1976 - Stuart Ratcliff resigned.This was confirmed by Tjomma and Sangoma.
No 1 - Gwynneth from her position of recruitment/contracts and went to standards
No 2 - Cape Town Area Pool Manager
No 3 - Stuart Ratcliff
No 4 - ..............
No 5 - .............
No 6 - ..............
WATCH THIS SPACE!!!
No problem, we have a TOOL, a R54 million TOOL!!!
No 1 - Gwynneth from her position of recruitment/contracts and went to standards
No 2 - Cape Town Area Pool Manager
No 3 - Stuart Ratcliff
No 4 - ..............
No 5 - .............
No 6 - ..............
WATCH THIS SPACE!!!
No problem, we have a TOOL, a R54 million TOOL!!!
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"Good luck with the crime, u may not make it to work in ur car, it may be hijacked or u may b killed, management are monuments, everything is going up except ur salary that doesnt keep up, procedures that are pre historic which makes moving traffic a nightmare, The LOCAL ANSP appears not be in a very healthy financial state, people at HQ getting huge salaries to steal oxygen an staple pages,it really is a big joke, best bet is the land of sand, u get paid what u worth!"
@ ORANPO
How come you have't been killed, maimed or had your car jacked??? But others must be on the lookout for CRIME, have you ever found yourself inDowntown London or the Bronx??? guess not..... just keen on Thrashing your own country.
@ ORANPO
How come you have't been killed, maimed or had your car jacked??? But others must be on the lookout for CRIME, have you ever found yourself inDowntown London or the Bronx??? guess not..... just keen on Thrashing your own country.
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ATNS Good planning
Don't worry, we will get another request from some old ATC that sits at HO to do another spreadsheet exercise for their so called planning
Another one I heard is that they appointed the new Pool Manager for PE as the current one is retiring, but they are still trying to extend his contract for the SWC
(time is running out)
The new one is obvoiusly BEE (allmost 4 years ATC experience) and he is still based in EL, they don't have a release ATC for him yet. So to avoid embarressment because they already had the interviews they appointed him as from OCT/NOV with his new paycheck but still sitting in EL (great planning ATNS)
Hey Leo20,
You seem to forget that the current Pool Managers had no experience as well when they got promoted, the didn't even have to apply for the positions. What do you have against change anyway? Look at the figures, there are more BLACKS in South Africa than there are WHITES, therefore you have to expect to see them working alongside you. WELCOME the new world, ain't life a (female Dog)
Another one I heard is that they appointed the new Pool Manager for PE as the current one is retiring, but they are still trying to extend his contract for the SWC
(time is running out) The new one is obvoiusly BEE (allmost 4 years ATC experience) and he is still based in EL, they don't have a release ATC for him yet. So to avoid embarressment because they already had the interviews they appointed him as from OCT/NOV with his new paycheck but still sitting in EL (great planning ATNS)
Hey Leo20,
You seem to forget that the current Pool Managers had no experience as well when they got promoted, the didn't even have to apply for the positions. What do you have against change anyway? Look at the figures, there are more BLACKS in South Africa than there are WHITES, therefore you have to expect to see them working alongside you. WELCOME the new world, ain't life a
(female Dog)
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Hey, Jet Black4Life
I beg to differ, the current Pool managers all over SA have more than enough working experience they have at least more than 8 years ATC experience. Yes, they may not have all management eperience but most of them got the required training for that position. They did not have to apply then for the required position as they got is on merrit and they wanted the position.
I don't mind change as long as it doesn't get misused or rammed down your throat
I don't mind working along side them as there are already a few great Black ATCs out there, Just a pitty we can't get more of them as they can't even pass core content. But management will eventualy lower the standards like they do at the schools to make them pass the test.
The CEO wont even take back ex white ATSAs to come back to ATNS as he said they had a change and they are only recruiting black people. Looks to me like a new apartheid area has begun.
I also don't mind that there are more blacks than whites just as long they are competent to do the job and we don't end up doing it for them.
You seem to forget that the current Pool Managers had no experience as well when they got promoted, the didn't even have to apply for the positions
I don't mind change as long as it doesn't get misused or rammed down your throat
I don't mind working along side them as there are already a few great Black ATCs out there, Just a pitty we can't get more of them as they can't even pass core content. But management will eventualy lower the standards like they do at the schools to make them pass the test.The CEO wont even take back ex white ATSAs to come back to ATNS as he said they had a change and they are only recruiting black people. Looks to me like a new apartheid area has begun.
I also don't mind that there are more blacks than whites just as long they are competent to do the job and we don't end up doing it for them.
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LEO20,
I couldnt have said it better myself.
That is the reason why we are sitting staffwise where we are. Recruitment is being done to fill a political need not a ATC need. I know of ATSA's that are too scared to become ATC's 'cause they didnt know what they are getting themselves into. Now they are just studying, through the company for free,to go do something else
They could have made a difference next year if the recruitment was done properly but the people that do the recruitment dont have to give up their off days with their families to help out with the SWC. So why would they give a rats rectum.
I couldnt have said it better myself.
That is the reason why we are sitting staffwise where we are. Recruitment is being done to fill a political need not a ATC need.
I know of ATSA's that are too scared to become ATC's 'cause they didnt know what they are getting themselves into. Now they are just studying, through the company for free,to go do something elseThey could have made a difference next year if the recruitment was done properly but the people that do the recruitment dont have to give up their off days with their families to help out with the SWC. So why would they give a rats rectum.