Aberdeen Runway Occupancy
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Mr Horgy,
Something doesn't quite add up. If you were being followed in by a turboprop, then that would have been a UK vortex SMALL or LIGHT. Your big ole 738 is MEDIUM therefore there should have been 4 or 6 miles between you when you touched down. But if that TP was so close that you stopping on the runway meant squeaky bum time for the controller (and cue a load of earache), perhaps he should have been using the time to give number 2 a goaround due to loss of vortex separation.
ADIS you mustn't have been at Aberdeen long if you've only given avoiding action once south of the CTA!
E/E6
Something doesn't quite add up. If you were being followed in by a turboprop, then that would have been a UK vortex SMALL or LIGHT. Your big ole 738 is MEDIUM therefore there should have been 4 or 6 miles between you when you touched down. But if that TP was so close that you stopping on the runway meant squeaky bum time for the controller (and cue a load of earache), perhaps he should have been using the time to give number 2 a goaround due to loss of vortex separation.
ADIS you mustn't have been at Aberdeen long if you've only given avoiding action once south of the CTA!
E/E6
Join Date: Nov 2001
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E6,
On 16 anything 4 nm behind is just about right for a landing clearance with traffic rolling under control to the end.6nm is plenty of room.However where Mr Horgy stopped his 738,could add about 1-2 miles spacing on final.
I caused a go-around some time back,by vectoring a jet 3 miles behind a Dash 8 at night on 16.The Dash 8 did the same as Mr Horgy,and the tower just ran out of room.
It still can be resolved with standard R/T,and not what Mr Horgy got.
On 16 anything 4 nm behind is just about right for a landing clearance with traffic rolling under control to the end.6nm is plenty of room.However where Mr Horgy stopped his 738,could add about 1-2 miles spacing on final.
I caused a go-around some time back,by vectoring a jet 3 miles behind a Dash 8 at night on 16.The Dash 8 did the same as Mr Horgy,and the tower just ran out of room.
It still can be resolved with standard R/T,and not what Mr Horgy got.
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TAD,
I'm not suggesting there wasn't enough room per se: for a light followed by a light, I can't imagine there would normally be a problem whatsoever. But when vortex spacing is required, it changes it - if it was tight enough for the controller to be concerned, enough to give MrHorgy both barrels, then vortex spacing may already have been lost (especially if #2 was a JS41, which I understand it WAS). In that case it should probably have resulted in a go-around. But if number two WAS 6 miles behind, it should have been fine - as you say, plenty of room - so there should have been no need for a controller to be unfriendly
(if that's what happened).
E/E6
I'm not suggesting there wasn't enough room per se: for a light followed by a light, I can't imagine there would normally be a problem whatsoever. But when vortex spacing is required, it changes it - if it was tight enough for the controller to be concerned, enough to give MrHorgy both barrels, then vortex spacing may already have been lost (especially if #2 was a JS41, which I understand it WAS). In that case it should probably have resulted in a go-around. But if number two WAS 6 miles behind, it should have been fine - as you say, plenty of room - so there should have been no need for a controller to be unfriendly
(if that's what happened).E/E6
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hogwarts
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I normally ask the TWR before landing where they want us to vacate if we're unsure, then plan the braking accordingly.
By the way we were asked very nicely if we could do 180kt to 2d at Geneva once in a 125-800. No problem.
Good old De Havilland Jet Dragon and patent dragmaster!
By the way we were asked very nicely if we could do 180kt to 2d at Geneva once in a 125-800. No problem.
Good old De Havilland Jet Dragon and patent dragmaster!
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Another windger.
Mr Horgy
Just another RYR ......
Did u get a bonus from O'.......... for making ur comments...SERIOUS QUESTION!!!!
Yet another spike from RYR to ATC. Obviously u did not like being spiked back.
Reply expected, whinger!!!
NIF
Just another RYR ......
Did u get a bonus from O'.......... for making ur comments...SERIOUS QUESTION!!!!
Yet another spike from RYR to ATC. Obviously u did not like being spiked back.
Reply expected, whinger!!!
NIF
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In a control room with no radar...
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Nifty, I honestly don't see the relevance of your post. Mr Hogy has made a fair statement regarding a controller at Aberdeen who is notorious for being a bit hot-headed at times. There's plenty of good controllers up there who have posted in this thread adding in relevant information so to attack a member for absoloutely no reason is hugely unprofessional on your behalf. I'm so glad you can live a life without being annoyed at the tone and impatience others sometimes have. I wish I was you.
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Surely this was simply a case of failing to plan for a suitable exit off the RW, especially with traffic close behind or traffic waiting to line up. If you're not sure of what exit to go for, ask the TWR before landing. If you miss your exit at LHR, where they have only a minimum 2.5 mile spacing, you will most probably cause a GA. This is all to do with situational awareness. I am very aware of said 738's on my 6 going into STN too. You see them in bold on the TCAS!
Thread Starter
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I didn't see the replies, I'll just chuck my hat back into the ring..
Interesting this thread has been dredged and both people seem to be slating me for some reason or another. I had no intention of playing into O Leary's pocket, infact I spent most of today defending ATC from my Captain who seemed to think "The bad shift" were out to get him by refusing his request for FL330 when we were filed at 220.
As for exit planning, from what I remember (this happened a wee while ago) ABZ has one exit - the end. As I alluded to in previous posts, our airfield brief specifically states a minimum of 2nd detent reverse, autobrake 2 and flap 40 due to runway length. Using anything else is in contravention of our operations manual.
At STN, we have two options. High Speed Exit 1 or 2. Neither make a significant impact on runway occupancy as we plan our braking accordingly. Without wanting a very useful thread to be drawn off course, i'd be interested to known what you fly Dumbledor, and who exactly causes you problems, it's certainly not us.
Horgy
Interesting this thread has been dredged and both people seem to be slating me for some reason or another. I had no intention of playing into O Leary's pocket, infact I spent most of today defending ATC from my Captain who seemed to think "The bad shift" were out to get him by refusing his request for FL330 when we were filed at 220.
As for exit planning, from what I remember (this happened a wee while ago) ABZ has one exit - the end. As I alluded to in previous posts, our airfield brief specifically states a minimum of 2nd detent reverse, autobrake 2 and flap 40 due to runway length. Using anything else is in contravention of our operations manual.
At STN, we have two options. High Speed Exit 1 or 2. Neither make a significant impact on runway occupancy as we plan our braking accordingly. Without wanting a very useful thread to be drawn off course, i'd be interested to known what you fly Dumbledor, and who exactly causes you problems, it's certainly not us.
Horgy
