FAA greenlights satellite-based air traffic control system
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...otherwise the default reporting rate is 30 minutes.
Don Brown
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Try Welcome — ASAS TN and look up In Trail Procedure. NATS have trialled this recently. The system uses a new type of cockpit display (CDTI) which I understand uses the current TCAS 'screen'. The requirement is for ADS-B 'in' to support aircraft to aircraft exchanges. The procedure is still authorised and notitored by an ATCO. The USA are using this in the Gulf of Mexico, pick an ASAS workshop from the website - best the ASAS Global recently held in rome - and view the FAA slides, possibly Boeing and Airbus too. This is part of the reason that ADS-B/C is required for Nextgen and SESAR.
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Try Welcome — ASAS TN and look up In Trail Procedure.
I'll stick with the bit of logic that tells me JFK and Heathrow are both operating at capacity even though we running huge amounts of spacing over the Pond. Cutting that spacing in half won't relieve the congestion where it counts -- at the airport.
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Cutting that spacing in half won't relieve the congestion
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But it does make it more likely that more optimal routes can be offered, saving a few tons of fuel every day.
Don Brown
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But it does make it more likely that more optimal routes can be offered, saving a few tons of fuel every day.
RNP/ADS-B/CPDLC/ADS-C/WAM/ADSB-IN etc. are all wonderful tools heading towards enroute free flight and better performing nav /comms systems; but there still is no real point if the bits of TAR are all full; generally speaking airspace isn't congested it's airports (admitting there are times when routes fill up)
I'm interested in what FEDex are doing re self spacing for landing (by airborne systems)? Is it working for them are they realising any true savings; or is it just smoke and mirrors? Are any others doing this?
Until you get fleet-wide systems in place there are massive limitations on this self separation, it only takes a few airframes to disrupt the whole show (like one non RVSM approved a/c flying in RVSM airspace)... Then there are the failure events....
I used to do APP control with RNP approach paths (apparently huge benefits for fuel burn and safety margins), the speed variations even with same type on the same route were huge (as the individual box is picking the individual optimal performance), combine that with different types on different approaches to the same bit of TAR and it becomes very inefficient because the safety margins and missed approach procedures were totally different and it was very difficult to judge what space and speeds between aircraft were required to enable two or more successful arrivals; so some flying the RNPs may have saved some juice, but others were cost that saving and probably more because these things exist...
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I'm interested in what FEDex are doing re self spacing for landing (by airborne systems)?
My info is a couple of years old but...
FedEx was getting cute -- their dispatchers (reportedly) were telling them to slow down or speed up (hundreds of miles out) trying to set up their arrival times -- forgetting to tell ATC. Supposedly (again, just rumor) a few would ask for a reroute to a different arrival becuase the dispatchers were shuffling gates.
UPS has a full-blown experimental program using ADS-B and Continous Descent Approaches (CDAs). All the eggheads and managers think CDAs are the best thing since beer. I don't know of any controllers that think they will work in congested airspace. I know they didn't work well at ATL or CLT. (Very limited experiments on the midnight shift.)
Experiments on the midnight shift at an isolated airport (SDF) with just one company (UPS) isn't going to tell us much about the real world.
Don Brown
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Thanks Don, I suspect the later was what I had in mind.
CDAs can work if the APP paths and Routes don't cross the DEP paths and Routes or conflict with other nearby airports... And if you can design an efficient route structure that does that then you've gonna have a few Squillan $$$ to bank.
Whilst the isolated nature of this trial may not prove too much, at least it is proving the technology and the possibilities moving forward. But is it working, are they getting it right? Is it more efficient?
From my reading of the processes it appeared that it would be very hands on regarding 'automatic' speed adjustments etc which I'd have thought would have reduced the benefits significantly; the landing gap may be 'perfect' but to achieve it cost all the benefits or more?
CDAs can work if the APP paths and Routes don't cross the DEP paths and Routes or conflict with other nearby airports... And if you can design an efficient route structure that does that then you've gonna have a few Squillan $$$ to bank.
Whilst the isolated nature of this trial may not prove too much, at least it is proving the technology and the possibilities moving forward. But is it working, are they getting it right? Is it more efficient?
From my reading of the processes it appeared that it would be very hands on regarding 'automatic' speed adjustments etc which I'd have thought would have reduced the benefits significantly; the landing gap may be 'perfect' but to achieve it cost all the benefits or more?
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gtf
The current proposals for reduced longitudinal separation (RLongSM) in the Shanwick/Gander areas are:
Normally position reports are provided every 10 degrees (approx 40 minutes). For the use of a RLongSM, the reporting frequency will be increased by the use of 20 minute ADS-C periodic contracts, in addition to waypoint reports.
Does anyone know what it is in the North Atlantic (or what is normal) ?
Normally position reports are provided every 10 degrees (approx 40 minutes). For the use of a RLongSM, the reporting frequency will be increased by the use of 20 minute ADS-C periodic contracts, in addition to waypoint reports.
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From my reading of the processes it appeared that it would be very hands on regarding 'automatic' speed adjustments etc which I'd have thought would have reduced the benefits significantly; the landing gap may be 'perfect' but to achieve it cost all the benefits or more?
It's easier for me to go with what I know (my old airspace) but not easier for you.
We used to have everybody just about all lined up for CLT and then the guy out of TRI would launch. Two minutes later the guy off AVL would launch. They're both less than 150 miles from CLT. The high-altitude merge plan went right out the window. And that was just one out of four arrivals -- not even the busiest side.It's all a fantasy. Again, it might work on the mid for UPS. But in the real world ? I don't think so. There are just too many variables.
Don Brown
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There is a link to a presentation which is quite interesting.
SafeRoute
"...so when the they come to the merge point,..."
And proof reading is the least of their problems. The "conversations" in their presentation are priceless.
Don Brown
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REBROS uses the North Sea rigs as platforms to broadcast and receive VHF. This allows the normal line of sight issues to be overcome and VHF communication coverage to be provided well offshore. There are no similar installations in the Atlantic which you could use.
