Bullying / victimisation
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Wherever I happen to be at the time
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bullying / victimisation
Hi
I'm the victim of the above, it's been happening for a while. Some people go 'unnoticed' I don't.
Pretty pissed off, as you can imagine.
Don't want to go into specifics, as that would threaten my anonymity. Tips / hints appreciated.
Many thanks
Paul
I'm the victim of the above, it's been happening for a while. Some people go 'unnoticed' I don't.
Pretty pissed off, as you can imagine.
Don't want to go into specifics, as that would threaten my anonymity. Tips / hints appreciated.
Many thanks
Paul
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ?
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hard to give tips if you don't give a hint of whats happened, but i understand how you feel.
Are you in a union? (hope they're better than mine!)
If in NATS, what about the critical incident management thingy (there is also the other thing i can't remember the name)
Speak to your boss - if that doesn't work, their boss etc till somebody takes you seriously.
Are you in a union? (hope they're better than mine!)
If in NATS, what about the critical incident management thingy (there is also the other thing i can't remember the name)
Speak to your boss - if that doesn't work, their boss etc till somebody takes you seriously.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Madrid FIR
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without details, hard to point you in the right direction. NATS and SERCO have well defined policies on these subjects and it's fairly easy to get the company working for you. In really serious cases it is gross misconduct, which can mean summary dismissal. Other employers should have similar policies, but it may be more difficult to get management on your side. Unions are also pretty hot on bullying too. If it is affecting your controlling you could put in an MOR, and CHIRP is worth a try. But here's an important bit - get a notebook (not a file where pages can be inserted and deleted) and make dated, written notes whenever an incident occurs. This will stand you in very good stead should you have to prove your accusations in any disciplinary hearing. Are colleagues similarly affected? Try to get them on board too.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Very good advice from radarman. You must inform your immediate manager as soon as possible, unless of course he is doing the bullying, in which case go to his manager. This kind of behaviour is certainly not tollerated in NATS and almost certainly isn't by any other service provider. Employment law is very clear about bullying and if a company takes no action to curtail it once it has been reported then the company is at fault and can be taken to court. The important thing to do is to act early and don't put up with the abuse in the hope that it will go away, it won't. Good luck you will win in the end.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good advice given so far, but if you are a member of a union it is absolutely vital that you tell them BEFORE you go to your line manager (or their superior if its the line manager harrassing you).
I've seen unit managers make all sorts of nice noises about how they'll deal with the problem and do nothing, either because they don't believe you, can't be bothered, don't know how to deal with it, or, worst of all, if the bully is someone the manager thinks highly of, they somehow want to protect the image of the bully and don't want anything to happen which may tarnish the manager's image.
Get the union involved immediately, it is highly likely that the unit rep' will pass it on immediately to the full time official for them to deal with.
Even if you are not a member of the union, talk to any local rep' - any union representitive worth their salt will give you confidential advice.
Whatever you do, take the advice given so far and act now.
Good luck.
I've seen unit managers make all sorts of nice noises about how they'll deal with the problem and do nothing, either because they don't believe you, can't be bothered, don't know how to deal with it, or, worst of all, if the bully is someone the manager thinks highly of, they somehow want to protect the image of the bully and don't want anything to happen which may tarnish the manager's image.
Get the union involved immediately, it is highly likely that the unit rep' will pass it on immediately to the full time official for them to deal with.
Even if you are not a member of the union, talk to any local rep' - any union representitive worth their salt will give you confidential advice.
Whatever you do, take the advice given so far and act now.
Good luck.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Madrid FIR
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is it that threads in PPRuNe descend so rapidly into petty personal squabbles? It's sometimes more like a school playground than a forum for mature professionals. Coordination unaffected has asked us for advice in solving a serious problem at work. Let's keep future posts on thread, and try and help one of our colleagues out of a difficult situation. Coord PM me if you would like to discuss the matter.
Quite right.
The offensive reply has been removed by its poster. I have therefore deleted my response to it.
Best wishes to the OP - I hope you can get this serious matter resolved satisfactorily.
The offensive reply has been removed by its poster. I have therefore deleted my response to it.
Best wishes to the OP - I hope you can get this serious matter resolved satisfactorily.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In my head
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How sure about your twopennorth, are you Verci? I've always thought it is ok to tape a conversation you are participating in where at least one party knows of the recording i.e. you.
Whether it is admissible as evidence / can be broadcast is another matter, but your written note of the same conversation would normally be admissible as evidence. If your note happens to be as accurate as the tape then sobeit?
Whether it is admissible as evidence / can be broadcast is another matter, but your written note of the same conversation would normally be admissible as evidence. If your note happens to be as accurate as the tape then sobeit?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The chief sciolist still spruiking, I see.
Recording a conversation is not illegal if you are party to it. It is at the discretion of the court whether it is admissable in a civil case. Courts will generally accept legal methods that obtain arrival at the truth.
Recording a conversation is not illegal if you are party to it. It is at the discretion of the court whether it is admissable in a civil case. Courts will generally accept legal methods that obtain arrival at the truth.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In my head
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cor blimey 
, quite an educational experience this PPRuNe lark can be 
It don't seem more than a few months since I learned what a sciolist was. Now spruiking enters worldwide usage
I found two definitions of a spruiker:
spruiker
noun
... so must be bananas
But I diverge too far from the seriousness of the thread (my apologies to the OP).
I would also favour quickly communicating with the union on a formal level and be guided by them. I would also try to make and keep notes despite how much of a chore that must be when you are depressed by the intimidating atmosphere.
Thirdly, but perhaps most importantly, and I am sure the OP must have considered it as a first action and doesn't need the reminder, but you ATCOs need to be sure you are 100% mentally fit for duty before each shift, don't you? I am not sure how advisable it is to sign yourself off sick and then seek a medical sign off too, but I am sure the OP must have considered it.
, quite an educational experience this PPRuNe lark can be It don't seem more than a few months since I learned what a sciolist was. Now spruiking enters worldwide usage
I found two definitions of a spruiker:
spruiker
noun
- (Australian) One who promotes his own cause; one who toots their own horn.
- (figurative) A person standing outside a place of business trying to persuade patrons to enter, or vigourously trying to persuade customers to purchase a their wares (ie. a fruiterer calling out the price of bananas).
... so must be bananas
But I diverge too far from the seriousness of the thread (my apologies to the OP).
I would also favour quickly communicating with the union on a formal level and be guided by them. I would also try to make and keep notes despite how much of a chore that must be when you are depressed by the intimidating atmosphere.
Thirdly, but perhaps most importantly, and I am sure the OP must have considered it as a first action and doesn't need the reminder, but you ATCOs need to be sure you are 100% mentally fit for duty before each shift, don't you? I am not sure how advisable it is to sign yourself off sick and then seek a medical sign off too, but I am sure the OP must have considered it.
Last edited by slip and turn; 28th Aug 2008 at 15:00.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tooting of horns anyone?
As for "own use". A method the post starter could use if ever in a courtroom, having recorded conversations as described, is to mention that recordings were made to assist his own memory of events. A civil court would want to hear the recordings, as they would shed light upon the truth. It is within the court's discretion, and should the recorded person object, then the court might find that as very persuasive. I learned this technique from a very clever government official who often found himself in legal situations (recorder in pocket).
Or, you could just take advice from Verci!! He is so smart, and knows lots of things about everything. Just ask him- in fact, don't ask him, just wait. He'll be right along to fill in all the stupid little people like us. It was why he sooooo successful as a manager.
bwahahaaaaahahaaaaaaa
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coordination Unaffected
For the OP, have you discussed this with the people responsible for the bullying/victimisation? It might be a case of politically incorrect, but no malice intended - we all work with the odd dinosaur from time to time who doesn't realise that what used to pass for humour, may not be considered amusing any more - often there is no harm intended.
If you are not comfortable approaching the person(s) involved on your own, perhaps take a friend/colleague for support or check if your organisation provides a dedicated equity adviser to moderate the discussion? Otherwise, send an email or letter if you prefer to avoid face to face confrontation. (Just keep a copy of anything you send as you can use it to demonstrate your attempts to resolve the issue if it escalates).
As we don't have the full story, I don't know if this is appropriate in your case, but the general rule is always to try to resolve these issues at the lowest possible level. So if you can just say "look, when you do/say xxxxx, I feel uncomfortable etc" it might help. After all, we're all supposedly adults!
I've had to explain to a few co-workers (over the years) where the appropriate boundaries are. In one case I had to speak to a guy twice and then involve our immediate supervisor to get my point across. But all these issues were resolved without having to resort to paperwork and nastiness. I don't believe any of them were malicious in intent. Once I explained that I really was upset/uncomfortable, the innappropriate behaviour stopped.
Good luck.
If you are not comfortable approaching the person(s) involved on your own, perhaps take a friend/colleague for support or check if your organisation provides a dedicated equity adviser to moderate the discussion? Otherwise, send an email or letter if you prefer to avoid face to face confrontation. (Just keep a copy of anything you send as you can use it to demonstrate your attempts to resolve the issue if it escalates).
As we don't have the full story, I don't know if this is appropriate in your case, but the general rule is always to try to resolve these issues at the lowest possible level. So if you can just say "look, when you do/say xxxxx, I feel uncomfortable etc" it might help. After all, we're all supposedly adults!
I've had to explain to a few co-workers (over the years) where the appropriate boundaries are. In one case I had to speak to a guy twice and then involve our immediate supervisor to get my point across. But all these issues were resolved without having to resort to paperwork and nastiness. I don't believe any of them were malicious in intent. Once I explained that I really was upset/uncomfortable, the innappropriate behaviour stopped.
Good luck.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Near the sea
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree totally with RAAFSA, we are supposed to be mature adults and should be able to sort things out between peers.
If not then take things further......... Hope it gets sorted
Wadi
If not then take things further......... Hope it gets sorted
Wadi
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paradise
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not all ACC units are the same..duh.
Beyond the obvious traffic density, equipment differences etc, etc... the attitude and atmosphere can be dramatically different from ACC to ACC.
One option is always to change ACCs. Perhaps it is not practical but ATC is much more enjoyable when you are working with a good butch of guys/gals.
Just a thought.
Beyond the obvious traffic density, equipment differences etc, etc... the attitude and atmosphere can be dramatically different from ACC to ACC.
One option is always to change ACCs. Perhaps it is not practical but ATC is much more enjoyable when you are working with a good butch of guys/gals.
Just a thought.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: nearby
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bullying/Victimisation
Not just at ACC's but aerodromes too. Bullying and Victimisation can be the worst thing for anyone. It can occur in all walks of the profession.
Fortunately I've not seen it very often at any ATSU I have worked at. ATC is a great profession and it should not be allowed EVER to walk our
corridors or live in our towers.
Fortunately I've not seen it very often at any ATSU I have worked at. ATC is a great profession and it should not be allowed EVER to walk our
corridors or live in our towers.