NATS Pay Rise for 2009
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Mr777,
Well the management working together with Prospect have erroded the pay at the smaller units,to keep the big units quiet.This was voted through because at the small units they couldn't vote against it due insufficient numbers,and the greed of the larger units.
Now the pension issue has surfaced,and will affect everyone.However for the first time the higher Band units are getting a taste of what the smaller units have been suffering for years.
The smaller units have lost union members due to disgust about the way they have been treated.We have lost the urge to unite,because it makes no difference what we think.
The pay issue I'm sure will have a pension reform carrot dangling from it somewhere.
A bit more equality pay wise would be nice,as we do an important job as well.In fact the way things are going in this industry,our little meaningless Band 2 unit will become more and more important.All these airlines going T
ts up,but we support the oil industry.It's booming and you Band 5 boys will have a lot less to do.
Well the management working together with Prospect have erroded the pay at the smaller units,to keep the big units quiet.This was voted through because at the small units they couldn't vote against it due insufficient numbers,and the greed of the larger units.
Now the pension issue has surfaced,and will affect everyone.However for the first time the higher Band units are getting a taste of what the smaller units have been suffering for years.
The smaller units have lost union members due to disgust about the way they have been treated.We have lost the urge to unite,because it makes no difference what we think.
The pay issue I'm sure will have a pension reform carrot dangling from it somewhere.
A bit more equality pay wise would be nice,as we do an important job as well.In fact the way things are going in this industry,our little meaningless Band 2 unit will become more and more important.All these airlines going T
ts up,but we support the oil industry.It's booming and you Band 5 boys will have a lot less to do.
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"So does anybody who's visited Planet Earth recently (apologies to Captain Blackadder) really believe that an RPI + 4% - 6% pay offer can be negotiated...? "
Prob not, but how come when things are good Baron gets 13% and we get RPI. The collapse of a couple of airlines is significant, but not the whole picture. Consideration should be given to the closure of West Drayton, impending closure of Manchester ACC. Also what about the fact that NATS gets it's revenue from Brussels (a nice conversion from Euro - £GBP at the moment).
The goodwill of staff is also incredibly important in meeting agressive future centres programs and (though Im not an ATCO but from reading these threads) AAVAs.
A lot of engineering staff will have pay cuts soon following the WD move.
I say RPI for pay fro a one year deal.
Pension not negotiable.
Prob not, but how come when things are good Baron gets 13% and we get RPI. The collapse of a couple of airlines is significant, but not the whole picture. Consideration should be given to the closure of West Drayton, impending closure of Manchester ACC. Also what about the fact that NATS gets it's revenue from Brussels (a nice conversion from Euro - £GBP at the moment).
The goodwill of staff is also incredibly important in meeting agressive future centres programs and (though Im not an ATCO but from reading these threads) AAVAs.
A lot of engineering staff will have pay cuts soon following the WD move.
I say RPI for pay fro a one year deal.
Pension not negotiable.
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Dyce,
I take what are you saying, you have a valid, well made point. In a perfect world everybody would be paid the same. I'm NOT the sort of person to say that because you work in a Band 2 unit you must do sweet fa and therefore don't deserve Band 5 money. Banding is what it is...an unfortunate fact of NATS life.
What I do object to is saying that Band 5 units are responsible for the current pension problem...what kind of nonsense is that?? I really do fear for our pensions having seen the lack of solidarity here over the last few days.
I also think it is worth re-iterating that penisons and pay rises should NOT be linked.
I take what are you saying, you have a valid, well made point. In a perfect world everybody would be paid the same. I'm NOT the sort of person to say that because you work in a Band 2 unit you must do sweet fa and therefore don't deserve Band 5 money. Banding is what it is...an unfortunate fact of NATS life.
What I do object to is saying that Band 5 units are responsible for the current pension problem...what kind of nonsense is that?? I really do fear for our pensions having seen the lack of solidarity here over the last few days.
I also think it is worth re-iterating that penisons and pay rises should NOT be linked.
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Well,
to answer my own question, I'm band 5 and I don't think all units should be paid equal..
I don't agree that there should be such a huge gulf in the two ends of the pay scale, but no way do I think all ATCO's should get paid the same.
This is accepted by many friends and colleagues who have moved to quieter units after having worked at a band 5 unit and either failed to validate or moved later on due to personal circumstances.
The fact that the way banding is done at the moment is another point altogether.
As for pensions - Barrons job (divide and conquer) is done already if people start trying to say that we are in this predicament because of banding.
Keep the two valid arguments seperate and concentreat on th eone at hand at the moment - i.e. pensions.
As for this thread - Barron has just had a healthy pay rise and a nice DB9 from the company... RPI + a bit is the least we should accept
to answer my own question, I'm band 5 and I don't think all units should be paid equal..
I don't agree that there should be such a huge gulf in the two ends of the pay scale, but no way do I think all ATCO's should get paid the same.
This is accepted by many friends and colleagues who have moved to quieter units after having worked at a band 5 unit and either failed to validate or moved later on due to personal circumstances.
The fact that the way banding is done at the moment is another point altogether.
As for pensions - Barrons job (divide and conquer) is done already if people start trying to say that we are in this predicament because of banding.
Keep the two valid arguments seperate and concentreat on th eone at hand at the moment - i.e. pensions.
As for this thread - Barron has just had a healthy pay rise and a nice DB9 from the company... RPI + a bit is the least we should accept
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Ahh banding.
Some points from my view.
Should people be paid differently depending on unit? Yes
Have "management working together with Prospect have erroded the pay at the smaller units"? I think all units have had pay rises in the last 5 years, so I would dispute that comment by throw a dyce. Was it done to keep the larger units "quiet"? I don't personally think it was but that is my opinion much as throw a dyce has his.
The argument of "I can't get released from my Band X unit, so cannot come to a Band 5 unit" is a sound one, NATS has a poor record in recent times of releasing staff. However people can move units, and have recently moved to my Band 5 unit. But to say that I am unable to be posted to a Band 5 unit, should that result in Band 5 money on the basis you cannot be posted there but want to? That is the argument some try to make I feel.
Remember we as members of the union asked for some form of banded structure. We as members were presented with it at conference a few years back and accepted it. We are members voted for it, I am told by union reps that more than just the big bad Band 5 units voted in favour for it so some non-Band 5 to be units must also have had members voting yes.
Some points from my view.
Should people be paid differently depending on unit? Yes
Have "management working together with Prospect have erroded the pay at the smaller units"? I think all units have had pay rises in the last 5 years, so I would dispute that comment by throw a dyce. Was it done to keep the larger units "quiet"? I don't personally think it was but that is my opinion much as throw a dyce has his.
The argument of "I can't get released from my Band X unit, so cannot come to a Band 5 unit" is a sound one, NATS has a poor record in recent times of releasing staff. However people can move units, and have recently moved to my Band 5 unit. But to say that I am unable to be posted to a Band 5 unit, should that result in Band 5 money on the basis you cannot be posted there but want to? That is the argument some try to make I feel.
Remember we as members of the union asked for some form of banded structure. We as members were presented with it at conference a few years back and accepted it. We are members voted for it, I am told by union reps that more than just the big bad Band 5 units voted in favour for it so some non-Band 5 to be units must also have had members voting yes.
Only joking mate, keep fighting.
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And some of us are Band 4 Approach AND Tower controllers (dual rated)working in a Band 2 approach room.Unions findings not mine.
GT3.You have forgotten about the Atco2/3 downgradings.Yes my friend take a pay cut or move out.I think the larger units voted for that one as well,for a big pay rise.
Anyway nothing will change as the damage is done.Had enough of this poxy company,and it's puppet union.
GT3.You have forgotten about the Atco2/3 downgradings.Yes my friend take a pay cut or move out.I think the larger units voted for that one as well,for a big pay rise.
Anyway nothing will change as the damage is done.Had enough of this poxy company,and it's puppet union.
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ebenezer
Holidaymakers hit by tour firm collapse - Yahoo! News UK
Did NATS charges push this company into bankruptcy or was it the price of fuel and the fall in value of the pound? Everyone is so keen to trumpet doom and gloom.
How much will NATS now save every year because it no longer has to pay for West Drayton?
How much extra is NATS getting because they get paid in Euros?
This is how one company is staying profitable in these hard times, cutting management posts.
Holidaymakers hit by tour firm collapse - Yahoo! News UK
So does anybody who's visited Planet Earth recently (apologies to Captain Blackadder) really believe that an RPI + 4% - 6% pay offer can be negotiated...? And if there is a strike, I just hope Prospect's coffers are deep enough to subsidise its striking members for long enough...
How much will NATS now save every year because it no longer has to pay for West Drayton?
How much extra is NATS getting because they get paid in Euros?
This is how one company is staying profitable in these hard times, cutting management posts.
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Had enough of this poxy company,and it's puppet union.
If that is the case, then have the courage of your convictions and leave the poxy company!
Equally, if it's a puppet union, get off your arse and bl##dy do something about it instead of whinging like a little girl.
The reason we are in the place we find oursleves is because people like you are good at moaning but sh#t at actually getting the business done.
Grow up!
If that is the case, then have the courage of your convictions and leave the poxy company!
Equally, if it's a puppet union, get off your arse and bl##dy do something about it instead of whinging like a little girl.
The reason we are in the place we find oursleves is because people like you are good at moaning but sh#t at actually getting the business done.
Grow up!
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I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, but can the banding issue just be left out of this thread?
I'm at a lower banded unit and totally understand why I get paid less than the band 5 guys and girls. That's not to say I think the banding system is fair by any means. Indeed, I think it's one reason why there is less money to go around the company, but the system is here for the time being and it's certainly not going to be be tackled anytime soon with the other stuff that is going on.
I'm at a lower banded unit and totally understand why I get paid less than the band 5 guys and girls. That's not to say I think the banding system is fair by any means. Indeed, I think it's one reason why there is less money to go around the company, but the system is here for the time being and it's certainly not going to be be tackled anytime soon with the other stuff that is going on.
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Cutting 60 management posts at Easyjet. Mmmm, if we did that could we start at the top...
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I believe that they (the pay negotiations) are taking a back seat until the pensions are resolved, which is fair enough and understandable.
I stand to be corrected though
I stand to be corrected though