NATS Pay Rise for 2009
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I believe that they (the pay negotiations) are taking a back seat until the pensions are resolved, which is fair enough and understandable.
Let's see how 'valued' all 'our people' are this year. Perhaps that might harden a few attitudes when the penison discussions get tougher ....
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I would hazard a guess that Anotherthing was being pragmatic by saying that the pay negotiations are on the back burner, as it's most likely that all efforts are being focussed on the pension. There are only so many union people available to negotiate and I for one would rather they tackled the pension issue first to try and end some of this endless uncertainty. I doubt I'll starve to death next year on my current salary if the pay negotiation is delayed for a while.
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The airline industry is in its deepest crisis since the age of mass air transport began in the 1970s, British Airways chief executive Willie Walsh has said. The industry had been hit by a "devastating combination" of an economic downturn, declining consumer confidence and high oil prices
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An RPI (4.8%) + XX% NATS pay rise???? Cripes! Was that a pig on final approach I saw...? Methinks a tube of realism pills might be in order for a few folk.
By virtue of the fact all pay increases in the company these days must be funded by cost efficiencies, there's no reason why an RPI+ deal wont be agreed. The question is who feels the pain to achieve it.
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Well in the current issue of the prospect magazine (yes i read this one!), more than half the recent pay deals are between 3.9 and 5.3%... recession not bothering everyone else it seems!
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i do hope sincerely that we do not get people saying that 'should we really be going for a pay rise at a time when the airlines are all struggling'.
as far as i'm concerned, they can (insert expletive) off. When we we struggling with 2% pay rises under goverment ownership,whilst those in the private sector were getting double that or more, we didnt hear a word from the nay sayers. As for upsetting public opinion, MP's have voted to keep their lavish expenses, 2nd homes, increased pension terms and conditions, all flying in the face of public opinion. They still did it, effectively saying 'screw you mr&mrs joe public, i'm gonna look after myself'.
Think its about time we followed their example
as far as i'm concerned, they can (insert expletive) off. When we we struggling with 2% pay rises under goverment ownership,whilst those in the private sector were getting double that or more, we didnt hear a word from the nay sayers. As for upsetting public opinion, MP's have voted to keep their lavish expenses, 2nd homes, increased pension terms and conditions, all flying in the face of public opinion. They still did it, effectively saying 'screw you mr&mrs joe public, i'm gonna look after myself'.
Think its about time we followed their example
Thread Starter
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We are the victims of inflation.
The astronomical rise in the price of oil and gas and the fall in the value of the £ mean that the inflation currently in the British economy is all imported inflation.
If we were all given a below inflation pay rise then less people would be able to afford to fly or go on holiday.
Strangling the cash flow in the UK is not going to help any UK industry.
The astronomical rise in the price of oil and gas and the fall in the value of the £ mean that the inflation currently in the British economy is all imported inflation.
If we were all given a below inflation pay rise then less people would be able to afford to fly or go on holiday.
Strangling the cash flow in the UK is not going to help any UK industry.
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i do hope sincerely that we do not get people saying that 'should we really be going for a pay rise at a time when the airlines are all struggling'.
as far as i'm concerned, they can (insert expletive) off. When we we struggling with 2% pay rises under goverment ownership,whilst those in the private sector were getting double that or more, we didnt hear a word from the nay sayers. As for upsetting public opinion, MP's have voted to keep their lavish expenses, 2nd homes, increased pension terms and conditions, all flying in the face of public opinion. They still did it, effectively saying 'screw you mr&mrs joe public, i'm gonna look after myself'.
Think its about time we followed their example
as far as i'm concerned, they can (insert expletive) off. When we we struggling with 2% pay rises under goverment ownership,whilst those in the private sector were getting double that or more, we didnt hear a word from the nay sayers. As for upsetting public opinion, MP's have voted to keep their lavish expenses, 2nd homes, increased pension terms and conditions, all flying in the face of public opinion. They still did it, effectively saying 'screw you mr&mrs joe public, i'm gonna look after myself'.
Think its about time we followed their example
How can companies justify the pay rises of their leaders?? Remember, these folks will get large bonuses as well so how come they get a silly% pay rise??
Spamcan
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Quote:
all pay increases in the company these days must be funded by cost efficiencies
Except for those of our CEO methinks....
BEX
all pay increases in the company these days must be funded by cost efficiencies
Except for those of our CEO methinks....
BEX
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NATS financial statement March 2008
http://www.nats.co.uk/uploads/user/N...rch%202008.pdf
Might help with any questions we have
Earlier statements Financial & Business Reports old - NATS
http://www.nats.co.uk/uploads/user/N...rch%202008.pdf
Might help with any questions we have
Earlier statements Financial & Business Reports old - NATS
Last edited by Air.Farce.1; 22nd Sep 2008 at 15:04.
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The Cap refers to PENSIONABLE pay. What this means that if the annual pay rise is RPI + 3% the only RPI + 0.5% of that will be contributing to your pension pot.
The actual payrises won't be capped.
The actual payrises won't be capped.
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In recent history, our pay rises have not really gone much over RPI + 0.5% anyway, nor do I expect they will be more than that in the near future.
Chances are that if they did... Say we got RPI + 1%, I would imagine the 0.5% that would be non-pensionable would end up being paid as a lump sum. Nice and simple.
In general... It looks like a complete cave-in by the TUs. They are now proposing to us the same proposal NATS made to them that they threatened strikes over.... How does that work?
Chances are that if they did... Say we got RPI + 1%, I would imagine the 0.5% that would be non-pensionable would end up being paid as a lump sum. Nice and simple.
In general... It looks like a complete cave-in by the TUs. They are now proposing to us the same proposal NATS made to them that they threatened strikes over.... How does that work?
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In general... It looks like a complete cave-in by the TUs. They are now proposing to us the same proposal NATS made to them that they threatened strikes over.... How does that work?
This crap has got to stop, otherwise a I feel a vote of no confidence in our union reps is called for
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on the contrary, i would have thought they would have come up with quite a good pay offer to 'grease the wheels'. one small but substantial one off payment to help save millions over 15 years.
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Banding....
Fair in principle, but unfair in practice...
Although there is a definite reason to pay some ATCO's more at certain units than others, the banding system is very flawed. The scoring of a unit doesnt really reflect sometimes what that unit does, it would be a bit like scoring an airport on pax numbers against aircraft movements. higher pax numbers doesnt always mean higher movements. Issues in sense of the service, complexity of the airspace etc that some of these units provide isnt always fully taken into account. There are some bandings that are based on history rather than true workload, approach atco's that are now providing the service from TC, whichin fact are now only radar rated other than when they were tower and approach rated are now bands higher for doing the same job or as i just said in fact less.
But the biggest issue is that although when banding came out it may have been ok, following pay rise after pay rise as resulted in the gap becoming more between the units. When it was introduced a difference between Bands could have been 5k it is in some cases now over 20k. A percentage of more is more...The bandings need re addressing, they need to see that if we continue along the vain of just giving percentage pay rises with no actually changes to the band levels then this gap is going to become enormous.
You have a situation now where a Watch manager/deputy earns less money than a Joe bloggs controller, with less ratings, working at a unit that is almost comparitvely as busy/complex as the unit they are at.
in fact any of the NSL approach/tower units other than manchester, all the watch managers and deputies earn less than a luton/stansted/thames approach only controller.
Not the best selling point is it when we try to encourage people to do more than just be an ATCO, not really a career development pusher.
Im for banding but please make it fair, we dont just need a percentage pay rise this year we need the whole scales looking at, need to address the fairness off the bandings, and look at better renumiration for those that are in Watch/deputy Management posts.
Fair in principle, but unfair in practice...
Although there is a definite reason to pay some ATCO's more at certain units than others, the banding system is very flawed. The scoring of a unit doesnt really reflect sometimes what that unit does, it would be a bit like scoring an airport on pax numbers against aircraft movements. higher pax numbers doesnt always mean higher movements. Issues in sense of the service, complexity of the airspace etc that some of these units provide isnt always fully taken into account. There are some bandings that are based on history rather than true workload, approach atco's that are now providing the service from TC, whichin fact are now only radar rated other than when they were tower and approach rated are now bands higher for doing the same job or as i just said in fact less.
But the biggest issue is that although when banding came out it may have been ok, following pay rise after pay rise as resulted in the gap becoming more between the units. When it was introduced a difference between Bands could have been 5k it is in some cases now over 20k. A percentage of more is more...The bandings need re addressing, they need to see that if we continue along the vain of just giving percentage pay rises with no actually changes to the band levels then this gap is going to become enormous.
You have a situation now where a Watch manager/deputy earns less money than a Joe bloggs controller, with less ratings, working at a unit that is almost comparitvely as busy/complex as the unit they are at.
in fact any of the NSL approach/tower units other than manchester, all the watch managers and deputies earn less than a luton/stansted/thames approach only controller.
Not the best selling point is it when we try to encourage people to do more than just be an ATCO, not really a career development pusher.
Im for banding but please make it fair, we dont just need a percentage pay rise this year we need the whole scales looking at, need to address the fairness off the bandings, and look at better renumiration for those that are in Watch/deputy Management posts.
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3 miles
Well put! I do not expect to be paid the same as bigger units but nearer to their wage without the huge gulf.
Manc tower may soon suffer when they no longer hang onto the coat tails of their area unit when they move, or more realistically when they finally lose their contract which haemorrhages money daily.
A suggestion would be to give the lower band units a spine point or 2 to narrow the bands but seeing as there would be nothing in that for the Band 4/5 units, who have the majority vote and look after themselves, then you haven't got a cat in hells chance.
Well put! I do not expect to be paid the same as bigger units but nearer to their wage without the huge gulf.
Manc tower may soon suffer when they no longer hang onto the coat tails of their area unit when they move, or more realistically when they finally lose their contract which haemorrhages money daily.
A suggestion would be to give the lower band units a spine point or 2 to narrow the bands but seeing as there would be nothing in that for the Band 4/5 units, who have the majority vote and look after themselves, then you haven't got a cat in hells chance.
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Nothing will ever change on this Banding bolocks.I mentioned this to our local union rep and was told if you don't like it,then leave. So that's what I recommend to people thinking of working abroad,elsewhere etc.
Although people say the pension/pay/banding issue isn't linked,it is.People are waiting to see what happens,and if NATS are really going to shoot themselves in the foot on pensions.You have to look at the overall package.
If NATS destroy the reason that most people are loyal,THE PENSION,then people will look at units closer to where it suits them.No reason to work for NATS anymore.Band 2 pay is about what you'll get outside roughly,but with less traffic,further south if you hail from that area,and even with some a pension scheme.
We have lost about the same ratio of controllers to Dubai as Heathrow has.We will lose a lot more.
ocks.I mentioned this to our local union rep and was told if you don't like it,then leave. So that's what I recommend to people thinking of working abroad,elsewhere etc.Although people say the pension/pay/banding issue isn't linked,it is.People are waiting to see what happens,and if NATS are really going to shoot themselves in the foot on pensions.You have to look at the overall package.
If NATS destroy the reason that most people are loyal,THE PENSION,then people will look at units closer to where it suits them.No reason to work for NATS anymore.Band 2 pay is about what you'll get outside roughly,but with less traffic,further south if you hail from that area,and even with some a pension scheme.
We have lost about the same ratio of controllers to Dubai as Heathrow has.We will lose a lot more.