NATS Pay Rise for 2009

[Hootin an a roarin]

The last couple of incompetent people at my unit got promoted to desk jobs at Band 4 and 5 units! Cynical, damn right.

[Caesartheboogeyman]

So if all these office workers that bdionu claims have all this knowledge not only about our current systems but also the new technologies, or new ideas from other ats proivders are employed by nats are as great as he claims then why the hell are we still employing these monkeys who turn up in the ops room every now and again with no fking idea what the hell is going on, asking all kinds of rubbish, and having the most primitive idea of an air traffic operation ever. even less so than my wife

[Roffa]

I don't think that it's those working at the CTC that seem to have been left behind by evolution going by some of what's been posted on this thread.

Sad.

[Standard Noise]

I know for sure the complaints that would very quickly be showing up on here when claims or AAVA payments and the like were deemed to be not being paid quickly enough etc etc

What, like June's overtime that I'm still waiting for. God know's, o/t (not even an AAVA!) is as rare as rocking horse sh!t round these here parts.
Oh, and rumour has it that an entire unit's OJTI team wasn't paid for their services in the last quarter.

Mind you, I can't make up my mind whether to call for less admin staff........or more!

[kinglouis]

and rumour has it, well its actually been confirmed that mister 'i'm in charge of the new capital/central TC airspace' has informed us all that it will be solely staffed with AAVA's.
how the hell can you staff a sector like that? i know of many waiting to hand in that sector as its staffed by people above MUR anyway when this crap kicks in.
maybe spend a few more million on it and not learn from it... management again in their own magic 'it will work' bubble and never listening to us.

[Me Me Me Me]

Technically, all NATS full-time staff are contracted to 40 hour weeks.

The combination of arrogance and ignorance displayed by some of my (operational) 'colleagues' never ceases to amaze me. You whine about everyone else but you being useless and a drain on resources as they know nothing about what you do... while showing quite clearly you lack any understanding of what they do, what their role is and what skills and experience they bring to the company.
This is a large company and there are highly skilled, highly qualified and highly valuable employees in a whole range of areas within it. Not just on the Ops room floor.

Funny how any discussion about money always brings out the worst in some people.

[250 kts]

I'll happily go back to a 40 hour gross roster. But when the bleeper goes whilst I'm half way through a dinner break to split the sector I'll be able to decline the request to get back to the sector. I suspect regulations would be more common than they are now.

Stilll sometimes it's a pleasure to leave the Swanwick food half finished.

[REVOLUTION]

I would challenge people at band 2 units who moan about their salaries being lower than those of their band 5 counterparts to put in a transfer request and come and validate at a band 5 unit. There is plenty of demand for ATCO's, both approach and area at Swanwick.

[eastern wiseguy]

And getting released from a band 2 unit...well thats a piece of p*ss huh?

[hangten]

Back to the original point, this news story is on the BBC business website. UK RPI rose to 5% in July (CPI is now 4.4% - the highest monthly increase since records began). Our chances of getting that? Slim to none I would wager.

BBC NEWS | Business | UK inflation up to 4.4% in July

[Traffic is...]

It does make me larf when people go on about getting transfers to band 5 units. If only it was that simple.

[throw a dyce]

Revolution,
That old chestnut again. I suppose that includes the college as well does it?
Why do you have such a low opinion of Band 2 units? Perhaps if Band 5 units were filled with lots of your type,then they are better avoided.
However to examine your point.Maybe everyone on the airport side at our Band 2 piece of piss unit,should move to Swanwick.Result.The entire North Sea Oil industry would shut down.Fantastic Petrol would be £5 a litre,and the country would grind to a halt.The exchequer would be £13 billion p.a poorer.The Oil multi nationals would ever so slightly cross at this Nats company.Very bad move.
There you are.Band 2 units aren't worth a toss.Nats hardly even knows where this Band 2 unit is,never mind what it does.

[BDiONU]

Originally Posted by throw a dyce

There you are.Band 2 units aren't worth a toss.Nats hardly even knows where this Band 2 unit is,never mind what it does.

Sounds remarkably similar to some of the comments in here about the 'office staff' at CTC. Except everyone knows where the CTC is. Strange how the only unit in NATS who does any 'real' work or earns any revenue is the one at which the poster works. Open your eyes guys, there is a whole other world outside of the tiny little one you work in.

BD

[ZOOKER]

throw a dyce,
It doesn't help your pay banding or pension issues I know, but until they are resolved, consider this:-
About an hour's drive west of where I believe you work, you are in the Grampian Highlands. ("Where the mountain men are kings, and the sound of the piper counts for everything").
- A lonely, primeval landscape, totally devoid of out-of-town shopping centres, Starbucks, and Band 5 ATCOs.
It's priceless.
ENJOY !

[MrJones]

I started this thread asking about pay negotiations and after a brief but informative discussion about pensions it degenerated rapidly into the usual pathetic ATCO bitchiness.

Maybe the Moderators need to start a Sticky for these people.

[Standard Noise]

.....or maybe you should exercise a bit more wit and not post such a topic.
Still, yet again the rest of the industry sees what a dysfunctional little family we are. So it's not all bad.

eastern - you should've taken advantage of the CDOX day at the Hurn happy camp. Then you could have phoned the big man reverse charges and told him you weren't coming back!

[sr562]

I have read this thread with much interest, and i have to agree with what has been said a few times, if the pension and pay is to be maintained we have to stick together.
As for the non ops staff being foolish for working more than the contracted hours for free as Pprune radar states, this is a bit harsh. Having worked in the real world (ie non NATS) this is the norm, and is expected. There are a lot of people within NATS who would have a huge culture shock if they had to work for a truly commercial company, having worked in engineering for 10 years before joining NATS i can vouch for this.
NATS are a good company to work for and the terms and conditions, pay and pension is excellent. NATS is however extremely top heavy with administration and with respect to NSL, will have to reduce this if it is to become a viable commercial business. For example at my unit one of the office staff generated a change request, for a document which they controlled, which is a ludicrous waste of time and effort, also if you accrue TOIL there are at least four forms to fill in, discounting NIBS. However this is part of the growing accountability and paper chasing culture within NATS, that (in my opinion) creates an enormous amount of unnecessary paperwork and jobs for more paper pushers.
To get back on thread though, we all have to stick together regardless of what position we hold in the company, otherwise the barron will be like a dog with multiple dicks, and we may as well all bend over, as our pay and pension will be f****d

[PPRuNe Radar]

As for the non ops staff being foolish for working more than the contracted hours for free as Pprune radar states, this is a bit harsh. Having worked in the real world (ie non NATS) this is the norm, and is expected.

It may be harsh, but I still think anyone working for free is foolish and potentially jeopardises everyone's work conditions. It might be expected in the real world, but then that's because they don't have a lot of union power.

We have stockpiles of dry powder in that respect, and the pensions will be the one thing that might actually ensure it's use, for once.

[slip and turn]

Hear hear Mr Radar, Sir

If Pensions is where the battle is to recommence, then cross their T when we get there, and then let 'em have powder and shot a-plenty

Meantime, steady as she goes, busy the crews with sabre-sharpening to quiet their mischief-making, and hold the line ...

Then we'll see who gets cut

[Del Prado]

Hi Slip and Turn. I wonder if you might share with us your experience in this matter? I know it's a public forum and you're most welcome to post but since this is a NATS specific issue I wonder what your interest is?
It's just I remember your posts being less than welcome in the "BA emergency descent" and the 'BBC reports Heathrow operation unsafe' threads.

Please forgive me if my request is out of order I'm just concerned you may muddy the waters if you are neither a NATS employee or an ATCO.