Aircraft operating overhead outside a/d opening hours
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
I've encountered C130s doing out-of-hours, lights off work out of a quiet GA airport down the southwest and even they were in contact with the local radar unit.
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anotherthing,
Up until 0300hrs rather than resting their eyes, whilst there will be no inbounds, LHR will likely have at least one if not two copper choppers on frequency to keep them awake.
So they are sat by the radar and keeping an occasional beady eye on it therefore any C130s or anything else flogging about at low level is likely to be noted.
Dizzee, if you're recording the H23 then why not look at your own recordings to see what's been happening, or do you switch the tape off at night?
At that time of night Thames Radar is not manned and Heathrow are usually 'resting their eyes'.
So they are sat by the radar and keeping an occasional beady eye on it therefore any C130s or anything else flogging about at low level is likely to be noted.
Dizzee, if you're recording the H23 then why not look at your own recordings to see what's been happening, or do you switch the tape off at night?
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Dizzee, if you're recording the H23 then why not look at your own recordings to see what's been happening, or do you switch the tape off at night?
I said these reports are likely to be the police choppers! If I thought something was happening I would request a copy of the DVDs and would love to sit down for hours on end watching it.
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Roffa,
I am well aware of what EGLL Dir does at night, thanks.
They will usually have assumed the reclined position well before 0300 - if the police call, it does not exactly involve much in the way of monitoring.
The ATCO will still possibly be reclined, or chatting to the GS, but at the same time will keep a weather eye out on the on or 2 aircraft they have on frequency.
A/C that to be honest, have only called them because they have to; not because they need to to safely accomplish their task
I am well aware of what EGLL Dir does at night, thanks.
They will usually have assumed the reclined position well before 0300 - if the police call, it does not exactly involve much in the way of monitoring.
The ATCO will still possibly be reclined, or chatting to the GS, but at the same time will keep a weather eye out on the on or 2 aircraft they have on frequency.
A/C that to be honest, have only called them because they have to; not because they need to to safely accomplish their task
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anotherthing.... The airspace around Biggin has controlled traffic even when Heathrow has no traffic. A large aeroplane lurking around would be noticed by Heathrow or Gatwick or TMA controllers, of that I have absolutely no doubt. If such an aeroplane were to fly in that area without making contact then controllers would presumably be taking avoiding action against it as it would constitute "lost or radio failed" and that would lead to an investigation.
I'm inclined to think this thread is getting rather silly so I'll contribute no further..
I'm inclined to think this thread is getting rather silly so I'll contribute no further..
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HD
As an experienced current LTMA controller who does a fair share of nights, I think I am more than qualified to talk about what happens in the TCR in this day and age.
If I or any other controller happens not to have an aircraft on frequency at that moment in time, we will not be watching the radar. The loud-speaker will be on, a handset set up to transmit and we will be reading a book, or chatting, or catching up on admin.
I have already said in 2 previous posts that the liklehood of a jet or even a C130 doing what was postulated is remote.
Please don't try to tell me how that Ops room works, I know because I work there... not 'used' to work there. And yes, you are correct it is getting silly, because people who do not have a clue about current working practices or the current Ops room layout try to tell people who do that they don't know how things work!
As an experienced current LTMA controller who does a fair share of nights, I think I am more than qualified to talk about what happens in the TCR in this day and age.
If I or any other controller happens not to have an aircraft on frequency at that moment in time, we will not be watching the radar. The loud-speaker will be on, a handset set up to transmit and we will be reading a book, or chatting, or catching up on admin.
I have already said in 2 previous posts that the liklehood of a jet or even a C130 doing what was postulated is remote.
Please don't try to tell me how that Ops room works, I know because I work there... not 'used' to work there. And yes, you are correct it is getting silly, because people who do not have a clue about current working practices or the current Ops room layout try to tell people who do that they don't know how things work!
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Oh dear....
*I'm about to throw a cat amongst the pigeons*
I know of an incident at an airport (which may or may not be the one were discussing) where the security guard reported an aircraft landing outside of the aerodrome operating hours (by about an hour). He wrote this in the watch log (at the unit that may or may not be the one were discussing) & told ATC about it the next day.
Where the incident went from there I'm not wise enough to say.
Just to say; it clearly does (& at least once did) happen. Someone time the last few years.
************************
One other thing,
As I read this thread I question; are some of us singing from different hymn sheets? Biggin Hill AIRPORT is inside Class G (& beneath Class A TMA). Maybe some are thinking that we're talking about stuff inside CAS???
I'm pretty sure the thread starter means an aircraft solely outside CAS.
And whilst I'm frantically typing; the ATM at Biggin (feed from LL) is rather patchy in places. I feel whilst a 'big aircraft' flying that low at that time is very very unlikely to go unoticed, in practical theory - it is entirely possibly that an aircraft of smaller size could possibly get to Biggin without being seen by radar but definately heard by residents.
*I hereby deny all knowledge of any said/unsaid events at any airport which may of may not exist & absolve myself of all attributable knowledge. I am not a pilot. & if I was (which Im not) I certainly wouldn't do something as stupid as that. Fact.
Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
*I'm about to throw a cat amongst the pigeons*
I know of an incident at an airport (which may or may not be the one were discussing) where the security guard reported an aircraft landing outside of the aerodrome operating hours (by about an hour). He wrote this in the watch log (at the unit that may or may not be the one were discussing) & told ATC about it the next day.
Where the incident went from there I'm not wise enough to say.
Just to say; it clearly does (& at least once did) happen. Someone time the last few years.
************************
One other thing,
As I read this thread I question; are some of us singing from different hymn sheets? Biggin Hill AIRPORT is inside Class G (& beneath Class A TMA). Maybe some are thinking that we're talking about stuff inside CAS???
I'm pretty sure the thread starter means an aircraft solely outside CAS.
And whilst I'm frantically typing; the ATM at Biggin (feed from LL) is rather patchy in places. I feel whilst a 'big aircraft' flying that low at that time is very very unlikely to go unoticed, in practical theory - it is entirely possibly that an aircraft of smaller size could possibly get to Biggin without being seen by radar but definately heard by residents.
*I hereby deny all knowledge of any said/unsaid events at any airport which may of may not exist & absolve myself of all attributable knowledge. I am not a pilot. & if I was (which Im not) I certainly wouldn't do something as stupid as that. Fact.
Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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Originally Posted by Brian81
I know of an incident at an airport (which may or may not be the one were discussing) where the security guard reported an aircraft landing outside of the aerodrome operating hours (by about an hour). He wrote this in the watch log (at the unit that may or may not be the one were discussing) & told ATC about it the next day.
Just to say; it clearly does (& at least once did) happen. Someone time the last few years.
Just to say; it clearly does (& at least once did) happen. Someone time the last few years.
In fact, I know of at least 3 or 4 such incidents where helicopters have landed after hours in the last 6 years however, they all occurred during day light hours and from what I have heard, they all were charged (and paid) the fairly hefty extension fee rather than be prosecuted (but that's an entire new thread).
These days, the security guards on duty during the night are alleged to be (at least this week they are anyway) mobile on the airfield all night so hopefully, they would see or hear or even feel an aircraft landing/departing or coming down to 50ft!.
PS. Brian81-sorry I forgot to call you and put you on loud speaker during the meeting however NTR, next meeting due in 2 years so will do so then! Nice champagne thanks to the new SATCO.
GOOD DAY.
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Hi DR.
Yeah, thanks for the non existant call... lol. There's me sat watching my mobile all night... you men, you're all the same... ;-)
& Champagne eh??? What happened to this cheese we we're all promised... "A house made of cheese!" he said....
LOL!
back to the matter in hand; define large jet...
As ATCOs I imagine we'd do a pretty good job of providing a definition. If we see *A JET*, we probably DO SEE *A JET*.
Joe Public however, I imagine, would have very wide ranging definitions...
just like the ones who call up & leave snotty little messages "a massive jet just passed directly over my house at about 50ft
When in fact it was a PA34 at 2400ft...
You know what would solve this dont you??? A webcam in the tower pointed towards the runway so I can watch from the comfort of my own lounge. serious.
Traaaaaaaaaaa.
Yeah, thanks for the non existant call... lol. There's me sat watching my mobile all night... you men, you're all the same... ;-)
& Champagne eh??? What happened to this cheese we we're all promised... "A house made of cheese!" he said....
LOL!
back to the matter in hand; define large jet...
As ATCOs I imagine we'd do a pretty good job of providing a definition. If we see *A JET*, we probably DO SEE *A JET*.
Joe Public however, I imagine, would have very wide ranging definitions...
just like the ones who call up & leave snotty little messages "a massive jet just passed directly over my house at about 50ft
When in fact it was a PA34 at 2400ft...
You know what would solve this dont you??? A webcam in the tower pointed towards the runway so I can watch from the comfort of my own lounge. serious.
Traaaaaaaaaaa.
