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New system Eurocontrol Maastricht

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New system Eurocontrol Maastricht

Old 8th Feb 2008, 16:56
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New system Eurocontrol Maastricht

I have heard through a friend that the Eurocontrol centre is to go on line with a new system at the end of this month. He said that it's not really ready and the traffic flow would be cut by at least 50% causing major delays! I'm flying at the end of the month and was wondering if he's just pulling my leg or if indeed there's going to be serious delays through that airspace?
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 18:38
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Providing all final training and testing runs to plan, the new system will go online on 29th Feb.

Staffing is slightly higher for March to try to keep delays at a minimum but I think the delay will still be huge.
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 22:32
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As mentioned, barring any major snaffu its due to go online on the 29th.

As you might expect there are going to be flow regulations for a significant period of time. Tactical re-routings by CFMU will take of some of it, but at the end of the day delays are inevitable.

Theres still a chance it will be delayed - on the last shadowing day (beginning of Feb) there were still some errors being thrown out of the system. Nothing that would endanger traffic, but just stuff that slows the controller down - hence the need for the reduction in traffic numbers.

The same system is also due to go online with DFS further into the future, so expect a similar story when that happens.

A new system (although not necessarily this one) is really needed. The current MADAP system was designed in the 70's and there are certain parts of the code that no-one can understand any more as all the techies have retired.
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 16:17
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The same system is also due to go online with DFS further into the future, so expect a similar story when that happens.
Are you sure it is "the same"?
Our system is no-where ready to go online and has in fact been postponed.

Regards,

Robert

Last edited by RobertK; 14th Feb 2008 at 16:42.
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 16:35
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What system guys, VAFORIT?

BD
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 16:42
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What system guys, VAFORIT?
That would be the German one, yes.

Regards,

Robert
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 20:07
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Is this the one? (taken from Eurocontrol CMFU AIM)

NEW FDPS MAASTRICHT UAC
.
VALID 14/02/08 TO 31/03/08
.
A NEW FLIGHT DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM IS BEING IMPLEMENTED IN
MAASTRICHT (EDYY) UAC.
THE TRANSFER TO THE NEW SYSTEM (NFDPS ) WILL BE CONDUCTED TO
ENSURESAFE ATC OPERATIONS AND TO MINIMIZE THE IMPACT TO AIRCRAFT
OPERATORS .
EN-ROUTE CAPACITIES WILL BE REDUCED BY MAX 25 PER CENT.
.
ATFM REGULATIONS WILL BE APPLIED FOR EDYY UAC IF TRAFFIC DEMAND
EXCEEDS THE REDUCED CAPACITY FIGURES.
REROUTEING SCENARIOS WILL BE APPLIED AS NECESSARY TO BALANCE THE
TRAFFIC AND MINIMIZE DELAYS. AIRCRAFT OPERATORS ARE STRONGLY
REQUESTED TO EXPLOIT FULLY THE AVAILABLE REROUTEING SCENARIOS IN
ORDER TO BALANCE THE FLOWS. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL INVOLVE
ADDITIONAL ATFM REGULATIONS THAT MAY NEED TO BE APPLIED AT SHORT
NOTICE TO PREVENT OVERLOADS.
ANY SIGNIFICANT DELAYS EXPERIENCED WILL BE GIVEN DUE
CONSIDERATION BY
CFMU AND REROUTE PROPOSALS (RRP) OR CHERRY PICKING MAY BE OFFERED
TO AIRCRAFT OPERATORS.
.
FOR TRAFFIC FLYING VIA EBBU/BRUSSELS ACC OPERATORS ARE ADVISED
THATSHORT TERM TACTICAL MEASURES MAY BE APPLIED AS NECESSARY AND
FLIGHTLEVELS ALLOCATED MAY BE FROM 2000 TO 4000 FEET LESS THAN
FILED IN FPL/RPL.
AIRCRAFT OPERATORS ARE REQUESTED TO ENSURE THIS IS TAKEN INTO
ACCOUNT
FOR FUEL PLANNING PURPOSES AND THAT FLIGHTDECK CREWS ARE BRIEFED
ACCORDINGLY.
.
*
FULL DETAILS ARE AVAILABLE FOR CONSULTATION ON THE EUROCONTROL
CFMUWEBSITE UNDER THE FOLLOWING HEADING:
CFMU OPERATIONAL SERVICES/FLOW AND CAPACITY MANAGEMENT/SCENARIOS/
EDYY NEW FDPS.
.
AN OPERATIONAL TRIAL WITH ATFM REGULATIONS AND SCENARIOS IS
PLANNEDFOR 20/02/08. RESULTS OF THIS ONE DAY TRIAL WILL BE
ASSESSED AND PRESENTED TO ADJACENT ACCS/FMPS AND AO
REPRESENTATIVES ON 22/02/08.
ANY NECESSARY FINE TUNING OF MEASURES WILL BE INCORPORATED PRIOR
TO THE OPERATIONAL IMPLEMENTATION AT 2200 UTC ON FRIDAY 29/02/08.
IT IS ANTICIPATED THAT THE MAJOR IMPACT OF THIS TRANSITION WILL
BE FROM 01/03/08 UNTIL 14/03/08.
.
MAASTRICHT FMP MAY INCREASE CAPACITIES WHERE POSSIBLE ON A
TACTICALBASIS, BASED ON OPERATIONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THE NEW
SYSTEM.
NORMAL CAPACITIES ARE EXPECTED ON OR BEFORE 31/03/08.
.
ADJACENT ACCS AND AIRCRAFT OPERATORS ARE ENCOURAGED TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE DAILY NMC CENTRA E-CONFERENCE AT 1500 UTC.
.
FULL INFORMATION WILL ALSO BE PUBLISHED IN NETWORK NEWS.
.
CFMU OPERATIONS DIVISION ON BEHALF OF MAASTRICHT FMP
Cheers,
Sean
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 22:20
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Yep, Sean, that's the one.

Although the reduced capacities are foreseen to run until the end of March, the performance, reliability and confidence in the new system will be evaluated on a daily basis. Normal service will be resumed as soon as we are confident it is prudent to do so.
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Old 15th Feb 2008, 12:35
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Interestingly the official blurb mentions a 25% reduction in capacity. I was told by a controller that it would be 50%. He also mentioned that to date there are still numerous outstanding controller flagged "no-go" items.
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Old 15th Feb 2008, 21:51
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RobertK:

Yes, as far as I know it is the same 'basic' system based on the same software, but tweaked for the DFS 'wishlist'

Maastricht has 'turned off' a lot of the potential functions in order to get the system online quicker & to make it more stable. From what I have heard DFS want all the bells and whistles from the get-go, which could be the reason for the extended delays.

Another interesting point which I have heard is that the generic software was actually designed for APP. control, rather than ACC.
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Old 16th Feb 2008, 15:55
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the official blurb mentions a 25% reduction in capacity. I was told by a controller that it would be 50%
The official reduction will be 25% off the normal values for the different sectors. However we regularly operate above these values, so the actual reduction might indeed be higher.

Anyway the big date now is 20/02 when the final shadow trial will take place and we will know if the system is ready to go live. If this works out, then we are ready for liftoff on 29/02!
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Old 17th Feb 2008, 14:29
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Another interesting point which I have heard is that the generic software was actually designed for APP. control, rather than ACC.
Sounds a bit strange to me, my impression was that VAFORIT is being built completely from scratch for UAC.

Mind you, I might be wrong here...guess I'll ask around a bit.

Regards,

Robert
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Old 18th Feb 2008, 19:19
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Yay!!!

IŽll be flting the 20th...I knew that sys was gonna give me some headhaches but didnŽt think itŽll giveŽem to me so soon...



WeŽll once up to speed itŽll make things easier and all that stuff...till our brains fry!!!

A.
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Old 19th Feb 2008, 19:21
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Rumour has is that NFDPS is delayed till after summer, aparantly there are still problems preventing a live trial, and thus the scheduled introduction.
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Old 19th Feb 2008, 19:38
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Looks like it is more than a rumour. Again taken from Eurocontrol CFMU AIM website...

MAASTRICHT NEW FDPS
.
VALID 19/02/08 TO 29/02/08
.
THE TRANSFER TO THE MAASTRICHT NEW FLIGHT DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM
HAS BEEN DELAYED UNTIL AUTUMN/WINTER 2008.
PREVIOUSLY NOTIFIED TRIAL AND TRANSITION DATES ARE POSTPONED.
A FURTHER UPDATE ON NEW DATES WILL BE GIVEN MID-MARCH.
.
CFMU OPERATIONS DIVISION ON BEHALF OF MAASTRICHT UAC/FMP
Cheers,
Sean
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Old 20th Feb 2008, 16:05
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To confirm, as mentioned above - the introduction of the NFDPS is postponed until after the summer season 2008.

According to the email we received from the big boss, they are happy with the ''end-user' side of things, but too many concerns were still being expressed on the technical side - hence the delay.
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Old 20th Feb 2008, 20:54
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Grrr Not Everyone was Happy

A friend of mine at Maastricht says the Project Manager frighten the life out of the team ... so everyone was afraid to say stop. The Controller managers liked the functionality. as long as it worked and it did'nt!!!!

The big boss said ...



You are aware that we are in the final days where we have to decide whether we can put N-FDPS safely into operations.


The feedback that I received was that the system is acceptable to the operational end user from a functional perspective. However, from a technical perspective we are not sufficiently confident that the system is robust enough. As such, we will not be able to field the system as foreseen on 29 February 2008.



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Old 21st Feb 2008, 16:20
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It's my understanding that NFDPS is a project that staff are positive and excited about. However, they knew months ago that realistically it could never be ready by 29 February. Unfortunately, these days senior managers cannot, will not, deal with reality until it smacks them square in the face! Then they have to resort to the type of nonsensical spin we see above.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 19:33
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Sobelina .... exactly . Director of the centre , in the Ops Room listening to comments , mostly negative ... answer " You will make it work " , QED . An example (unfortunately). "Management" these days has a different meaning .
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Old 23rd Feb 2008, 00:22
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same-o, same-o.

"You will make it work"

Like all his predecessors then?
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