Irish ATC wages/conditions
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: brisbane
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Irish ATC wages/conditions
Ireland Aviation Authority (IAA) are recruiting for Shannon and Dublin Centres on 3 year contracts. They are playing their cards very close to their chest when asked about renumeration packages.
Does any one know what their wage scales are and conditions Irish ATCs are getting at the moment?
The IAA Website was not very helpful about wages/conditions.
Does any one know what their wage scales are and conditions Irish ATCs are getting at the moment?
The IAA Website was not very helpful about wages/conditions.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An aquaintance who is already a jobbing ATCO for the IAA seems think that they'd only discuss salaries if they were going to make a job offer, i.e. you'd have to go through the interview process.
He also said that if they were three year contracts, it's highly likely that it's because they haven't recruited/trained enough of their own recently and it's to cover that shortfall, although there doesn't appear anything to be on the IAA site at the moment.
Word is that although they may have to pay a decent salary to get the experienced atcos they temporarily need, they wouldn't pay relocation costs and you wouldn't be allowed to join the pension scheme.
Would it be worth anyone relocating half way around the world to go there for such a relatively short time? given that the cost of living in Ireland is at least on a par with most of the UK (i.e high), it seems not.
But with plenty of cheap flights to and from the UK, anyone from NATS could commute if they could bear it, thereby taking a very pleasant sabbatical I would have thought.
He also said that if they were three year contracts, it's highly likely that it's because they haven't recruited/trained enough of their own recently and it's to cover that shortfall, although there doesn't appear anything to be on the IAA site at the moment.
Word is that although they may have to pay a decent salary to get the experienced atcos they temporarily need, they wouldn't pay relocation costs and you wouldn't be allowed to join the pension scheme.
Would it be worth anyone relocating half way around the world to go there for such a relatively short time? given that the cost of living in Ireland is at least on a par with most of the UK (i.e high), it seems not.
But with plenty of cheap flights to and from the UK, anyone from NATS could commute if they could bear it, thereby taking a very pleasant sabbatical I would have thought.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between heaven and hell
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm. Rather interesting. What I've found on http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/vacancy.asp is:
Vacancies
There are no vacancies at present, however, if you would like further information on the types of job for which we recruit or to be added to our mailing list, please contact us at or send your CV to:
Human Recourses Division
Aviation House
Hawkins Street
Dublin 2
Or email [email protected]
Please note that sending a CV or merely expressing an interest in a particular career does not constitute an application.
Click here for further information.
Vacancies
There are no vacancies at present, however, if you would like further information on the types of job for which we recruit or to be added to our mailing list, please contact us at or send your CV to:
Human Recourses Division
Aviation House
Hawkins Street
Dublin 2
Or email [email protected]
Please note that sending a CV or merely expressing an interest in a particular career does not constitute an application.
Click here for further information.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: all over the place
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
' a very pleasant sabattical'....I don't think so... I would definitely talk to some of the controllers especially at Shannon (where you would probably be placed) before you decide on taking up any offers..... .
Rumour is that very long shifts ,100 night duties per year and inability to get leave have led to an all time low in morale in shannon (not sure about Dublin).
Rumour is that very long shifts ,100 night duties per year and inability to get leave have led to an all time low in morale in shannon (not sure about Dublin).
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ireland
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
irish atc
there is no official iaa recruitment drive for direct entry atcos at the moment, however, there is a word of mouth thing going on. for reasons that i wont get into, the iaa are contacting anyone that drops in a cv, or contacts them directly, to see if they would be interested in joining them for a fixed period of time .... 2/3 years - depending on who you talk to.
alwaysmovin has got it mostly right - but the max no. of rostered nights is about 90 per annum.
the iaa recently held a competition for cadets, with a view to starting 2 classes of 24 in 2008. they have only now realised that they cannot release the staff from ops to train this intake ( almost all instructors rotate from ops to training!) so 1 class will start in february, and a second class of 24 is in a holding pool with no definate start date.
the direct entry atcos are to bolster the numbers until the cadets come on line.the iaa and the atco union have had some negotiations on this matter. the atco union view is that once the cadets are trained, the direct entries will not get a renewed contract, as the cadet scheme should continue to provide the required staff!
as for remuneration, i dont have the exact figures, but my understanding is that the starting point of the atco scale will be the base for the direct entries ( about €60k ) with 31 days annual leave - if you can take them!
those figures are open to correction.
morale is low, leave is almost non existant, the roster is tough,in fact there have been 4 different rosters in as many years, to try to fix the staff shortfalls, and another one being planned for april. however dont take my word for it, if you contact the iaa, www.iaa.ie, i'm sure that they will paint a better picture for you!
good luck
alwaysmovin has got it mostly right - but the max no. of rostered nights is about 90 per annum.
the iaa recently held a competition for cadets, with a view to starting 2 classes of 24 in 2008. they have only now realised that they cannot release the staff from ops to train this intake ( almost all instructors rotate from ops to training!) so 1 class will start in february, and a second class of 24 is in a holding pool with no definate start date.
the direct entry atcos are to bolster the numbers until the cadets come on line.the iaa and the atco union have had some negotiations on this matter. the atco union view is that once the cadets are trained, the direct entries will not get a renewed contract, as the cadet scheme should continue to provide the required staff!
as for remuneration, i dont have the exact figures, but my understanding is that the starting point of the atco scale will be the base for the direct entries ( about €60k ) with 31 days annual leave - if you can take them!
those figures are open to correction.
morale is low, leave is almost non existant, the roster is tough,in fact there have been 4 different rosters in as many years, to try to fix the staff shortfalls, and another one being planned for april. however dont take my word for it, if you contact the iaa, www.iaa.ie, i'm sure that they will paint a better picture for you!
good luck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: brisbane
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Email from IAA, but still no money mentioned.......
I appreciate that in order to specify your remuneration expectations you need to understand the structure of the remuneration package. We were looking for an indication of overall remuneration expected rather than rather than detailing a specific package.
This is a new departure for us and a learning experience in relation to structuring a realistic remuneration package. We are proposing a basic salary plus an allowance for shift work and Office Holiday attendance plus membership of a Defined Benefit Pension Scheme.
On completion of the contract period the pension could be preserved or transferred to another pension scheme if appropriate.
Annual Leave would be a maximum of 34 days p/a.
Paid Sick Leave benefits would also apply.
The positions on offer are operational shift positions in Shannon ACC on 3-year fixed-term contracts. You would be operating as an en-route controller handling traffic on the interface between Europe and the North Atlantic.
Rosters are under negotiation at the moment and the outcome will probably be either a 6on/3off roster or a 5on/3off roster. If the latter, duties would be longer and possibly include a time-adjustment duty. Rosters normally start with an evening duty and end with a night duty in Shannon. ATCOs are required to work 34.75 hours in position per week less fatigue breaks.
It is not envisaged that we would include Health Insurance cover, rental or travel allowances.
It is not planned to offer permanent employment on completion of the contract.
The intention is to start mid Q1, 2008 but we may have some flexibility on that.
This is a new departure for us and a learning experience in relation to structuring a realistic remuneration package. We are proposing a basic salary plus an allowance for shift work and Office Holiday attendance plus membership of a Defined Benefit Pension Scheme.
On completion of the contract period the pension could be preserved or transferred to another pension scheme if appropriate.
Annual Leave would be a maximum of 34 days p/a.
Paid Sick Leave benefits would also apply.
The positions on offer are operational shift positions in Shannon ACC on 3-year fixed-term contracts. You would be operating as an en-route controller handling traffic on the interface between Europe and the North Atlantic.
Rosters are under negotiation at the moment and the outcome will probably be either a 6on/3off roster or a 5on/3off roster. If the latter, duties would be longer and possibly include a time-adjustment duty. Rosters normally start with an evening duty and end with a night duty in Shannon. ATCOs are required to work 34.75 hours in position per week less fatigue breaks.
It is not envisaged that we would include Health Insurance cover, rental or travel allowances.
It is not planned to offer permanent employment on completion of the contract.
The intention is to start mid Q1, 2008 but we may have some flexibility on that.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West of Ireland + London
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but still no money mentioned.......
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Somewhere HOT!!
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....What can I tell you...morale IS low.....Leave IS non-existent.....Roster IS crap......They had pay negotiations recently and amidst all the promises from our union that a realistic increase of 10-15% would be put to the members for acceptance, a mere 5% was offered..and they want us to accept it!!! Of course I'm open to correction on this. Nights are tough...1st night starts at 12 midnight...and ends at 930am....your knackered!!! 2nd night starts at 9pm and ends at 8am...your knackered!!! Now pay...who knows what they'll start off for direct entries...but you can bet your bottom dollar that it won't even come close to what other providers are giving....salaries at the moment range between 55,000Euro to 100,000Euro (if your working there 150 years!!!!) but those figures all depend on options on getting paid for office holidays or taking the days and a wee bit of overtime, which is plentiful at the minute.....Knowing the I double A, that 3 year fixed contract is more than likely to be extended...we simply don't have enough staff on right now...even with the new cadet classes, I really doubt that they will cover retirements in the next few years....There are a few younger people thinkin of jumpin ship too...oppurtunities are there abroad..why not take them.....I think the IAA will need to make the package extremely attractive.
Last edited by The Jolly Roger; 3rd Jan 2008 at 00:28.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone who moves around a bit, I am at a loss as to why the IAA think that offering a short-term contract at less dollars than for permanent staff will attract the right candidates?
Short-term contracts need to offer a premium; surely that's a basic contracting principal?
They must also be aware that if they are fishing in the 'global marketplace', they have to offer packages that are competitive with whats on offer in that marketplace? eg, eurocontrol, middle east etc.
Short-term contracts need to offer a premium; surely that's a basic contracting principal?
They must also be aware that if they are fishing in the 'global marketplace', they have to offer packages that are competitive with whats on offer in that marketplace? eg, eurocontrol, middle east etc.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As another Irish atco i can confirm everything that has been said here by the Jolly Roger and Irish atco...IF 
you are interested go in with your eyes open
...the rosters are tough,leave is rarer than golddust morale is non exsistent and bodering on militant.
..knowing the IAA and there detachment from reality expect the pay offer to be low and any promises made to you will not be honoured....
you are interested go in with your eyes open...the rosters are tough,leave is rarer than golddust morale is non exsistent and bodering on militant...knowing the IAA and there detachment from reality expect the pay offer to be low and any promises made to you will not be honoured....
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Short-term contracts need to offer a premium; surely that's a basic contracting principal?
They must also be aware that if they are fishing in the 'global marketplace', they have to offer packages that are competitive with whats on offer in that marketplace? eg, eurocontrol, middle east etc.
will compete with the money that eurocontrol or the middle east can offer you.....also do not expect that once the contract has finished that you will be kept on either
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: all over the place
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The low pay is quite ironic considering rumours have it that the IAA themselves got 2 and a half times that figure from other providers for IAA controllers loaned out.....so no excuse for not knowing the going rate....
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ireland
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alwaysmovin makes an excellent point. at the risk of thread drift, or the requirement for a new thread dedicated to the iaa, i think that this analogy sums up the iaa, and therefore its relevant to this particulat thread.
in recent times the iaa has shipped out controllers to germany, holland, and south africa - the south african and dutch contracts ended this year, 2007 - so them stating that this is a new departure for them is technically correct, and yet completely untrue. bottom line is they want to do this as cheap as they can. this sums up the iaa in a nutshell - demand highest standards, pay as little as possible. the fact that the ceo is an accountant by profession, should not surprise anyone.
personnaly i would welcome and benefit from direct entries coming, for the reasons already stated by my colleagues in shannon. but with the actual lack of a package ie no relocation etc, it seems that you make your own way here, your own way home, any paid flights home during the contract? a designated person to help with accomodation etc? these things are fairly standard everywhere else
i wouldn't recommend it, nor have i recommended it to anyone out there.
best of luck if you can negotiate a good package for yourself. but beware of verbal offers, and also vague promises. the iaa have a habit of writing words like
" a bonus may be paid " or
"such and such may be done/paid at the discretion of the company"
you will be told verbally that these mean they will happen - this is not always the case. feel free to pm if you have any queries.
in recent times the iaa has shipped out controllers to germany, holland, and south africa - the south african and dutch contracts ended this year, 2007 - so them stating that this is a new departure for them is technically correct, and yet completely untrue. bottom line is they want to do this as cheap as they can. this sums up the iaa in a nutshell - demand highest standards, pay as little as possible. the fact that the ceo is an accountant by profession, should not surprise anyone.
personnaly i would welcome and benefit from direct entries coming, for the reasons already stated by my colleagues in shannon. but with the actual lack of a package ie no relocation etc, it seems that you make your own way here, your own way home, any paid flights home during the contract? a designated person to help with accomodation etc? these things are fairly standard everywhere else
i wouldn't recommend it, nor have i recommended it to anyone out there.
best of luck if you can negotiate a good package for yourself. but beware of verbal offers, and also vague promises. the iaa have a habit of writing words like
" a bonus may be paid " or
"such and such may be done/paid at the discretion of the company"
you will be told verbally that these mean they will happen - this is not always the case. feel free to pm if you have any queries.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Somewhere HOT!!
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
taking the airspace has definitely attributed to the staffing problems....its like buying a lot of land and building houses on it with no roads, or services....the iaa should have seen this coming for years. They are, in effect, becoming a little bit of a shambles!!! If your really interested in joining the iaa, negotiate ANY type of contract....get it in writing and then negotiate again.....They are very very short and we need controllers....Any one from the iaa here from the top....listen up.....
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: all over the place
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel very sorry for all the staff in Shannon who are so overworked but I hope that nobody takes up the offer of a 3 year contract......and if you do, make sure you get a bloody good solicitor to check and double check everything......on that note i'm off to see mine right now :-)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Westlands....
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vacancies...huh!!!...what vacancies.
Quote;
"best of luck if you can negotiate a good package for yourself. but beware of verbal offers, and also vague promises. the iaa have a habit of writing words like"
" a bonus may be paid " or
"such and such may be done/paid at the discretion of the company"
Well put "irishatco". However, as a recently signed up forum member with a particular interest in this topic, I have some questions for you.
If there is a real need for direct entry ATCOs, why is the union making it so hard to agree a contract for them?
Surely it's members will benefit from the extra staff....sooner is better than later. no?
I was told that there were several vacancies in EIDW, for all sectors, is this true?
Why would any currently employed ATCO, apply for a 2-3 year contract, joining at the lowest point of the pay scale? (Not very tempting!)
Since submittimg my CV last October, all I have is an ack. email!!! I am slowly losing interest...
Whaddya think???
Regards,
Sylvester
"Own nav is best"
"best of luck if you can negotiate a good package for yourself. but beware of verbal offers, and also vague promises. the iaa have a habit of writing words like"
" a bonus may be paid " or
"such and such may be done/paid at the discretion of the company"
Well put "irishatco". However, as a recently signed up forum member with a particular interest in this topic, I have some questions for you.
If there is a real need for direct entry ATCOs, why is the union making it so hard to agree a contract for them?
Surely it's members will benefit from the extra staff....sooner is better than later. no?I was told that there were several vacancies in EIDW, for all sectors, is this true?
Why would any currently employed ATCO, apply for a 2-3 year contract, joining at the lowest point of the pay scale? (Not very tempting!)
Since submittimg my CV last October, all I have is an ack. email!!!
I am slowly losing interest...Whaddya think???
Regards,
Sylvester
"Own nav is best"