Can US ATC cancel a flight?
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Can US ATC cancel a flight?
In the UK ATC cannot cancel a flight. We can withhold take off/landing clearance when instructed by the aerodrome authority, or HM Government on security grounds etc.
Before I start attempting to recoup some money from Continental for a recent debacle, can I just confirm that US ATC are the same?
Before I start attempting to recoup some money from Continental for a recent debacle, can I just confirm that US ATC are the same?
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In 15 years of airline flying over there I never had ATC cancel a flight. As you said they delay the heck out of them until the airline actually pulls the plug or the crew times out. The only time I can recall non-airline cancellations would be Sept 11.
Since you're over here and talking about Continental would it be safe to assume a transatlantic flight? Could it have been delayed enough to miss a slot for the track or something like that?
Since you're over here and talking about Continental would it be safe to assume a transatlantic flight? Could it have been delayed enough to miss a slot for the track or something like that?
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It was a domestic EWR-CMH flight last week. We were delayed by weather (5 hours on a Embraer 145 without even taking off is not fun!) until finally the flight was cancelled.
CO customer service told me they would not help me with a hotel or meal vouchers because 'ATC cancelled the flight'. I've checked on CO's website and if CO cancel the flight themselves then they are liable for accommodation.
CO customer service told me they would not help me with a hotel or meal vouchers because 'ATC cancelled the flight'. I've checked on CO's website and if CO cancel the flight themselves then they are liable for accommodation.
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I'd venture a guess that they are not being totally honest with you. But, from ancient memory of the airline I worked for in the States, cancellations or delays due to weather were "out of the control of the airline" and as such would not be treated as an airline cancellation. There were a few catches however, such as a multi-leg trip where you started and were not advised before departure of a potential weather delay.
Best of luck with it, in the end it's only money and there's always more where that came from!
Best of luck with it, in the end it's only money and there's always more where that came from!
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Gonzo...over the past 3 months my wife and stepdaughter have had their(seperate) flights cancelled under similar circumstances. They were booked on CO on both occassions. They were offered NOTHING as the flight was cancelled due to wx . This is despite wife having been flown from CLE to ORD then to EWR to connect with the only BFS flight and being un cerimoniously dumped in EWR with no assistance whatever. Despite many complaints we have been offered a $100 voucher against another CO flight. Good luck. 
I think what being discussed is flow control issueing departure times so far down the road that it essentially forces the airline to cancel the flight. This is quite common landing ORD when there's WX and or closures.
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Gonzo,
In the U.S., when a flight is canceled or delayed due to weather or other "force majeure event" the airline is not required to provide hotel accommodation or meal vouchers, only re-accommodation on the next available flight (which in some cases can be several days away). Most, if not all, U.S. airlines will have a clause in their Contract of Carriage (COC) explaining under which circumstances they will, and will not provide hotel and meal vouchers. Continental's COC, which can be found here, explains on pages 33-35 (bolding mine):
RULE 24 FLIGHT DELAYS/CANCELLATIONS/AIRCRAFT CHANGES
F) Amenities for Delayed Passengers
1) Lodging
The Passenger will be provided one night’s lodging, or a maximum allowance for one night’s lodging as established by each location, when a CO flight on which the Passenger is being transported incurs a Schedule Irregularity and the Passenger incurs a delay that is expected to exceed four hours during the period 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.
EXCEPTION: Lodging will not be furnished:
c) When such interruption is due to circumstances outside CO’s control such as weather condition and air traffic control delays.
If you wrote a letter to Continental explaining that you were stuck on the plane for 5 hours before they ultimately canceled the flight, preventing you from making alternate arrangements, they may send you a voucher towards a future flight. Especially given the current environment with Congressional calls for a "passenger's bill of rights."
Good Luck!
-Chris
In the U.S., when a flight is canceled or delayed due to weather or other "force majeure event" the airline is not required to provide hotel accommodation or meal vouchers, only re-accommodation on the next available flight (which in some cases can be several days away). Most, if not all, U.S. airlines will have a clause in their Contract of Carriage (COC) explaining under which circumstances they will, and will not provide hotel and meal vouchers. Continental's COC, which can be found here, explains on pages 33-35 (bolding mine):
RULE 24 FLIGHT DELAYS/CANCELLATIONS/AIRCRAFT CHANGES
F) Amenities for Delayed Passengers
1) Lodging
The Passenger will be provided one night’s lodging, or a maximum allowance for one night’s lodging as established by each location, when a CO flight on which the Passenger is being transported incurs a Schedule Irregularity and the Passenger incurs a delay that is expected to exceed four hours during the period 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.
EXCEPTION: Lodging will not be furnished:
c) When such interruption is due to circumstances outside CO’s control such as weather condition and air traffic control delays.
If you wrote a letter to Continental explaining that you were stuck on the plane for 5 hours before they ultimately canceled the flight, preventing you from making alternate arrangements, they may send you a voucher towards a future flight. Especially given the current environment with Congressional calls for a "passenger's bill of rights."
Good Luck!
-Chris
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It's interesting to see some pax appear to consider the airline responsible for the weather. Next time the pax arrives too late to check in due to bad weather on the motorway I wonder if they will accept responsibility or will they demand a refund for the ticket?
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Late is fine, delays due to weather are fine, delays due to ATC are fine.
But cancelling the flight after five hours when a/c were starting to be released (I chatted to the flight crew throughout the five hours, was listening to EWR Ground with them....other a/c were slowly starting to depart from all three main NY airports westbound) with no help in finding any accommodation? CO even failed to inform the car rental firm at CMH of my late arrival (having said they would), and therefore I had to pay extra the next day because they had cancelled my booking. They also failed to inform my hotel in Columbus, even though they said they would. They also said in as many words that my baggage was trapped on the aircraft as they did not have enough handlers there to service all the cancelled flights, and would depart to CMH first thing in the morning, ahead of me. They did not want to make a contribution to allow me to purchase any clothes or toiletries to make my enforced overnight stay more comfortable.
Coolbeans, I downloaded the same document this morning. I would argue that the delay was outside of CO's control, obviously, but the cancellation wasn't, as we could have departed, just very late. From talking to both flight and cabin crew, my informed guess is that the a/c, which was meant to be on an out and back to CMH would not have got back to EWR in time for the first rotation out the next morning.
But cancelling the flight after five hours when a/c were starting to be released (I chatted to the flight crew throughout the five hours, was listening to EWR Ground with them....other a/c were slowly starting to depart from all three main NY airports westbound) with no help in finding any accommodation? CO even failed to inform the car rental firm at CMH of my late arrival (having said they would), and therefore I had to pay extra the next day because they had cancelled my booking. They also failed to inform my hotel in Columbus, even though they said they would. They also said in as many words that my baggage was trapped on the aircraft as they did not have enough handlers there to service all the cancelled flights, and would depart to CMH first thing in the morning, ahead of me. They did not want to make a contribution to allow me to purchase any clothes or toiletries to make my enforced overnight stay more comfortable.
Coolbeans, I downloaded the same document this morning. I would argue that the delay was outside of CO's control, obviously, but the cancellation wasn't, as we could have departed, just very late. From talking to both flight and cabin crew, my informed guess is that the a/c, which was meant to be on an out and back to CMH would not have got back to EWR in time for the first rotation out the next morning.
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In the UK ATC cannot cancel a flight. We can withhold take off/landing clearance when instructed by the aerodrome authority, or HM Government on security grounds etc.
Before I start attempting to recoup some money from Continental for a recent debacle, can I just confirm that US ATC are the same?
Before I start attempting to recoup some money from Continental for a recent debacle, can I just confirm that US ATC are the same?
Nope. Can't "cancel" a flight and prevent it from going on our own. Not in the job description.
Dave
PS (unrelated thread-creep): With regard to the "Guard Police..." delighted to hear Cathay on a 5 mile final to 25L at KLAX today say, "Los Angeles tower, Cathay 006 heavy has an ELT." We couldn't hear it on the ground. I'm betting that the controllers at KHHR could hear it (probably on their airport), but none-the-less, it's always gratifying to hear that the heavy metal is listening on guard and reporting what they hear, even given the nonsense they have to sort through to do it. Well done.
And with Cathay I feel compelled to add, nice paint.
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Originally Posted by Gonzo
Coolbeans, I downloaded the same document this morning. I would argue that the delay was outside of CO's control, obviously, but the cancellation wasn't, as we could have departed, just very late. From talking to both flight and cabin crew, my informed guess is that the a/c, which was meant to be on an out and back to CMH would not have got back to EWR in time for the first rotation out the next morning.
Personally, I'd say go for it and try and get come compensation. It can't hurt, and I'd do the same. I wouldn't have high expectations though. Separately, have you checked out the Continental forum on Flyertalk? They might have some good advice.
