NATS January 2008 Pay Rise
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Costa del Swanwick
Homo.
So you want Band 5? But didn't the members vote that co-located units should be on the same banding? This is how the situation that,say,a Thames Radar guy is Band 5 because of his location and not the task. My apologies to Thames but just using you as an example.
Surely the danger is that if MACC become Band 5 then so should Manchester Airport. The danger has to be that this significantly pushes up the cost of the contract and everything that goes with it with obvious potential implications.
This would also lead to the whole of Scottish becoming Band 5 in the future. Fine, you may say, but I can't believe that the long term plan isn't to get some of the approach guys into Scottish and so they too would become Band 5.
I actually don't give a toss if you earn the same as me, just the way I don't care what a Thames only guy gets but you have to be aware of the potential issues it could have for everyone in the operational world. You could of course push for anyone with a validation on your quieter sectors staying at 4-or even going down to 3- whilst those valid on the busier ones get the pay rise.
So you want Band 5? But didn't the members vote that co-located units should be on the same banding? This is how the situation that,say,a Thames Radar guy is Band 5 because of his location and not the task. My apologies to Thames but just using you as an example.
Surely the danger is that if MACC become Band 5 then so should Manchester Airport. The danger has to be that this significantly pushes up the cost of the contract and everything that goes with it with obvious potential implications.
This would also lead to the whole of Scottish becoming Band 5 in the future. Fine, you may say, but I can't believe that the long term plan isn't to get some of the approach guys into Scottish and so they too would become Band 5.
I actually don't give a toss if you earn the same as me, just the way I don't care what a Thames only guy gets but you have to be aware of the potential issues it could have for everyone in the operational world. You could of course push for anyone with a validation on your quieter sectors staying at 4-or even going down to 3- whilst those valid on the busier ones get the pay rise.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 139
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From: North of Birmingham by a lot
From an EGPD ATCO:- Banding sucks, but £60k pa in Aberdeen goes a darn site further than it would 'down sarf'. Throw a Dyce fights a good fight, but although we do nearly Gatwick rates of traffic for a big chunk of the day, the weekends in particular are quiet. Personally, you Band 5 guys are welcome to it. I know you shift serious amounts of traffic safely (as we do), but who in their right mind would want to live down there in congestion and pollution central?!! I'll take my 4.1% of not so much and hope they revisit the banding issues asap. Besides, we'll soon be in totally separate companies so the pay comparison argument will be a moot point?
Regards, ADIS
Regards, ADIS
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 106
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From: The South
Good post ADIS5000
I work at a Band 5 unit so perhaps my views are slightly biased.
Our place is busy for about 20 hours a day. You get a respite when there is very little traffic between about midnite & 4am. The traffic has increased so much that you cannot tell the difference between a weekday & a weekend.
How many lower banded units can say that they are working to near capacity levels of traffic at 4am? It isn't easy, especially on the 2nd night shift.
I feel that i earn my Band 5 money & as my 4.1% increase of salary works out higher than a band 2 or 3 increase, then i honestly feel that it is justified.
I work at a Band 5 unit so perhaps my views are slightly biased.
Our place is busy for about 20 hours a day. You get a respite when there is very little traffic between about midnite & 4am. The traffic has increased so much that you cannot tell the difference between a weekday & a weekend.
How many lower banded units can say that they are working to near capacity levels of traffic at 4am? It isn't easy, especially on the 2nd night shift.
I feel that i earn my Band 5 money & as my 4.1% increase of salary works out higher than a band 2 or 3 increase, then i honestly feel that it is justified.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 324
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From: Near VTUU or EGPX
I thought about starting this thread in the NATS forum, but as we are not the only employer in this industry in the world I decided to put it here so others CAN see what is happening in NATS.
The two-year pay deal has hardly been the best kept secret anyway.
I do believe the "banding issues" squabbling should be kept out of the public domain as that is unique to NATS.
Edit. Apologies, it was a three year agreement and the January 2008 rise is the last part thereof.
The two-year pay deal has hardly been the best kept secret anyway.
I do believe the "banding issues" squabbling should be kept out of the public domain as that is unique to NATS.
Edit. Apologies, it was a three year agreement and the January 2008 rise is the last part thereof.
Last edited by The Fat Controller; 1st October 2007 at 15:31.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 836
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From: Costa del Swanwick
TC Willy Waving Thread :-)
Er,wasn't it a 3 year deal and this will be the final yearly rise?
On the subject of mobility. It would seem that there is less ability to move around units especially on the airports side of the business. There needs to be a real push from people who want to move to put pressure on their respective managers. We have had a steady stream of people able to move from the unit and often to lower paid units.
On the subject of mobility. It would seem that there is less ability to move around units especially on the airports side of the business. There needs to be a real push from people who want to move to put pressure on their respective managers. We have had a steady stream of people able to move from the unit and often to lower paid units.
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 1
From: UK
BD
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Earth
The latest rumour after the recent senior managers meeting is that the comapny is going to be looking at separate pay deals for NSL and NERL, with reductions in T&C'sfor NSL for an equivalent pay rise to NERL.
Also pensions are costing them too much, so expect the forthcoming pay negotiations to be very very heated, now wheres my powder cos I'm damned sure I'm gonna need it!!!
Also pensions are costing them too much, so expect the forthcoming pay negotiations to be very very heated, now wheres my powder cos I'm damned sure I'm gonna need it!!!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 438
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From: Sunny Warwickshire
And so it begins ..................
the divide and conquer tactic, let's hope that for once we can see beyond the almighty bung and let them know that whilst we are now two separate companies we are in fact united on the relevant issues
the divide and conquer tactic, let's hope that for once we can see beyond the almighty bung and let them know that whilst we are now two separate companies we are in fact united on the relevant issues
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 1
From: UK
with reductions in T&C'sfor NSL for an equivalent pay rise to NERL.
Also pensions are costing them too much, so expect the forthcoming pay negotiations to be very very heated, now wheres my powder cos I'm damned sure I'm gonna need it!!!
BD
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Warwickshire
BDi,
any pay negotiations will be done as a whole NATS, the fact that NSL and NERL ar enow separate is not going to be an issue, howevr the comapny will no doubt go to the bargaining table with something along the lines of:
"NSL is in a competitive environment and we cannot afford..........."
Therefore by offering a pay deal which reduces the T&C's of NSL staff lets say getting rid of LVs as a start they can say well yes that works for us as it reduces our overheads and makes the contracts more competetive then lets say they use the argument of:
"Well we can't afford AAVAs at the current rate so we propose this option of a standard call out fee of say £50 plus an enhanced hourly rate fo a minimum of 2 hours, but you go home when you are no longer required"
Again reducing the T&C's but reducing overheads and making conracts more competetive.
Then how long before we become NATS EGLL and NATS EGPF etc thus further eroding the T&C's.
It's a slippery slope and sadly I believe that the almighty dollar wil win and those of us that work at the regional airfields will get well and truly shafted
any pay negotiations will be done as a whole NATS, the fact that NSL and NERL ar enow separate is not going to be an issue, howevr the comapny will no doubt go to the bargaining table with something along the lines of:
"NSL is in a competitive environment and we cannot afford..........."
Therefore by offering a pay deal which reduces the T&C's of NSL staff lets say getting rid of LVs as a start they can say well yes that works for us as it reduces our overheads and makes the contracts more competetive then lets say they use the argument of:
"Well we can't afford AAVAs at the current rate so we propose this option of a standard call out fee of say £50 plus an enhanced hourly rate fo a minimum of 2 hours, but you go home when you are no longer required"
Again reducing the T&C's but reducing overheads and making conracts more competetive.
Then how long before we become NATS EGLL and NATS EGPF etc thus further eroding the T&C's.
It's a slippery slope and sadly I believe that the almighty dollar wil win and those of us that work at the regional airfields will get well and truly shafted
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: uk
I would like to know who is the serious competition to NSL? Changing an ATC contractor is a nightmare and you really have to take the majority of staff over.I don't think Serco could take over unless it's a very small contract (in the UK).Who is the great competitor that Management are so scared about? NSL staff at the lower Band units deserve a break,not more foul medicine from Nats/Prospect.After all they are earning the money for this mob.
If things keep get chipped away in NSL land,we might be better working for someone else.Won't be a lot in it soon.
If things keep get chipped away in NSL land,we might be better working for someone else.Won't be a lot in it soon.
Last edited by throw a dyce; 4th October 2007 at 19:22.
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 1
From: UK
I have heard a rumour and I stress only a rumour, that it costs NSL 1.5million to provide an ATC service at EGCC. Thats a loss of 1.5m. How much longer (if this is true) can high earners like EGLL continue to support the rest?
BD