Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > ATC Issues
Reload this Page >

Dubai Retention Packages-Hit or miss

Wikiposts
Search
ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

Dubai Retention Packages-Hit or miss

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 23rd Jun 2007, 16:46
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool Again moa

It seems that nothing have been changed at ME during the last 30+ years. I met some guys who worked there during the 70s and 80s and their stories were similar to today's stories. And no one of them said that was mistake in their life. As bunch of ATCOs waiting for their ME opportunity there is small possibilities that something will change in near future. Job at ME will always be :Morning TWR, afternoon APP, Night ACC and tommorow again...But bank bill in Switzerland ...
SINGAPURCANAC is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2007, 18:45
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
First post, but I followed the talk about Dubai for quite some time now. I'm currently looking for a deal in Dubai and there is a good possibilty I will show up there in the not to distant future to ease the burden for you guys a bit. I think it's really good that you guys inform us what can be expected to get at least mine expectations on a modest level.

A few quick questions...
The guys that are leaving, what kind of "fines" or whatever did they get for breaking their contracts early?
What's the average age of the controllers (youngest/oldest etc.)?
What's the extra pay for overtime?
Except the shortage of controllers (that is a worldwide shortage, except at my current workplace where we are currently the number we should be) and the payment that is no longer as good as it once was, what's the most important issue with this place, please let me know some good things as well, if there are any!?

I'm a single guy interested in trying out a different culture and a lot of traffic for a couple of years before returning home, would you advise me to come or skip it?
NiceVectoring is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2007, 06:46
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Age: 46
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi NV

The fines have been heavy! I believe up to around AED 70K (£10000). In slight defence of the company, these guys only did a year of a three year contract and a large proportion of that fine (I am guessing now) would be to pay back the AED 35K furniture allowance on arrival (5 year tie).

No overtime worked although expect to have to work a few extra nights instead of afternoons through the summer to allow an extra leave line.

Average age? Very mixed from oldschool IAL chaps approaching retirement to young nationals in there early twenties just getting into the game.

Unfortunately manning and the money are the biggies here but other irritations are bad equipment, poor transport for getting too and from the tower/rdr room (airside), some over-zealous security staff and the automatic suspension and retraining package (min 6 days) if you have ANY kind of loss of separation. This is not a subjective, progressive learning system but a pretty draconian waste of time that encourages cover-ups. Dont expect the same levels of airmanship from our customers here as in the UK.

Good stuff. Some fantastic people, HOT weather, great bars and nightlife, cheap cars, sandy beaches, exploring the emirates, golf bla bla bla. If you've got a hobby at home the chances are you will be able to do it better and cheaper here (unless you are the Dorset Dominoes champion).

Leave work at the door and have a ball. APPARENTLY there's ANOTHER new package on the way??????????

My advice, sit back and watch for a few months!

Last edited by choclit runway; 24th Jun 2007 at 06:47. Reason: typo
choclit runway is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2007, 17:42
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UAE
Age: 18
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ATTN.: Dct no speed

I am not
Quote:
warning people not to join DXB
but just giving them a heads up.
Ok, so what is this?

Considering Dubai from elsewhere in the world????

....be warned
If You have another option than Dubai, consider that rather
Isn't that a warning?

We are 30% understaffed
Based on what? Your math or Serco's?

I am not knocking this place to get an Increase
Sure you are! Otherwise you wouldn't moan

but mearly giving the facts to those that might turn up here
Ok, so what is facts? Simple facts like salary, housing or your opinion? I hear what you're saying re. the out of control inflation in the UAE etc., but would you be living in something like "Emirates Hills" back home? Guess not! Do they pay your housing back home as well? Guess not! Do they pay flights and utility bills? Guess not! Do they give you a bonus after 3 years service back home? Guess not! Are your home country tax free? Well most likely NOT!
The lifestyle here are still easier than other conutries! Cheap cars and fuel; lots of places to travel to when you need fresh air; weather great 8-9 months of the year.

Your way of asking questions also smell of great "office material"
You guessed wrong. Just trying to see both sides of the coin. With the growth of the aviation business in the ME, increases for controllers will come, and CVs will again be knocking on the doors.

John Doe II
John Doe II is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2007, 18:37
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by choclit runway
Hi NV
The fines have been heavy! I believe up to around AED 70K (£10000). In slight defence of the company, these guys only did a year of a three year contract and a large proportion of that fine (I am guessing now) would be to pay back the AED 35K furniture allowance on arrival (5 year tie).
No overtime worked although expect to have to work a few extra nights instead of afternoons through the summer to allow an extra leave line.
Average age? Very mixed from oldschool IAL chaps approaching retirement to young nationals in there early twenties just getting into the game.
Unfortunately manning and the money are the biggies here but other irritations are bad equipment, poor transport for getting too and from the tower/rdr room (airside), some over-zealous security staff and the automatic suspension and retraining package (min 6 days) if you have ANY kind of loss of separation. This is not a subjective, progressive learning system but a pretty draconian waste of time that encourages cover-ups. Dont expect the same levels of airmanship from our customers here as in the UK.
Good stuff. Some fantastic people, HOT weather, great bars and nightlife, cheap cars, sandy beaches, exploring the emirates, golf bla bla bla. If you've got a hobby at home the chances are you will be able to do it better and cheaper here (unless you are the Dorset Dominoes champion).
Leave work at the door and have a ball. APPARENTLY there's ANOTHER new package on the way??????????
My advice, sit back and watch for a few months!
Thanks for the reply!

What about social life, If I would come as a single guy without knowing anyone in the city. Do you arrange any events at work to get together? The average citizen/colleague, are they keen to make new friends, get together and do things, put simply....what can I expect? Or are there just couples and families at work, minding their own business?
NiceVectoring is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2007, 21:10
  #26 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nv,
The scene at the Barasti from Thursday to Saturday night is something to behold.......Bogey rich enviroment!

I have made some great friends out here, but also know that some guys and girls really struggle to make friends and form relationships!
I recommend that you come and look at the place first, get a feel for the place! It is not everyone's cup of tea. There are only two kinds here(my idea not fact) those who love Dubai and those who hate Dubai. Some have been here for 100's of years and hated every minute of it! Steer clear of these guys!
We have end of year functions and regular pow wow's at the Country Club (bitch and moan sesions followed by free food and booze)

Some of the crews have "Exclusive Golf Club Memberships" (good excuse to go buy Booze at the Barracuda) some have drinks after second afternoon shift to get in the mood for the night shift some Dive together and some organize Crew breakfast(WARNING !!!!!!!!!! FACT)

As I might have stated earlier, as so nicely pointed out, I am warning you that everything is not as advertised so please do your home work.

JD11(enough with the red all ready)
Maybe you do not have to pay in 25 000 a year on "Suitable" Acommodation, after you where told, that the allowance will cover your housing, after paying in 10 000 the year before or paying in half a monts salary on schoolfees that was also suppose to be covered by the allowance. Maybe you also get 3 cycles of leave as promised where some guys have been told that they can have 2 and thats it.Maybe you have not been bitten yet, so you would not know.

30% go ask the figures from the boys in the Offices. What our staff should have been for the opening of the second runway/dual ops and what we have now. Why suddenly only one tower controller when 2 was the plan?

Emirates hills who lives there? The guy from Finland?

Cheap cars and fuel .Yes! (a motivation to move here.. no!)Tax free? Road toll service fees at bars and restaurants, hidden cost here and there possible VAT?

The only reason they now pay a bonus after 3 years(not for new guys only for contracts ending 2008 and earlier) is to try and stop the damwall from breaking. It has never been done before ever in Dubai.....never....looks like someone is worried that with more staff leaving we could be in some serious pooo!!!!!

I actually like Dubai but after seeing some guys leave recently who had the wool pulled over their, eyes felt the need to warn my fellow man about the pitfalls here. I am Happy that you are happy, at least not another resignation from you then!

NV,
I think that Dubai for a young guy/girl can be a great place (if you can addapt here) You will get to work with people from all over the world and in a multi cultural mixingpot. You will see cars and driving like nowhere else in the world(FACT) The nightshifts are something to get use to!

Travel when you are here and go see the world; places like Thailand, Jordan, Maldives, Oman and so much more, can be done on off days!
Go out and explore around the City, but be warned not all the ladies here might like you for your good looks and sparkling personality, but more for your way of paying!

Just one thing......make sure that anything that you negotiate before you do make your decision to come here, is in Black and White, as gentelman's agreements are quickly forgotten in the heat of summer!

Come visit and bring your sunnies, sunblock, sense of humor and sense of adventure. Leave the camera behind you can buy a flashy new one here summer specials are on!

SEE NOT JUST MOANING!
Dct no speed is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2007, 21:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Great reply, Dct!! Very much appreciated! I'm gonna dig in to that a bit and see if there is anything else that might be of interest! Thanks again!

A quick question, DUAL runways and only ONE twr-controller? How many ground controllers? Let's just ask, what is the typical high-traffic staffing in the tower? It can't be just ONE ground and ONE twr right? Clearence delivery? Lots of curious questions, please enlighten me!

Last edited by NiceVectoring; 24th Jun 2007 at 21:38. Reason: Only ONE twr controller?
NiceVectoring is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2007, 05:45
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Age: 46
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Are your home country tax free? Well most likely NOT!

At least the taxes are not hidden back home. I have never been to a country where so many hidden extras are added on (municipality fees and service charges, admin charges, parking meters everywhere and road tolls to come etc). A state that professes to be tax free should be just that.The powers that be are just too scared to put the name 'tax' to some of these expenses. That said.... It admittedly amounts to alot less than the 40% back home!

NV

Great social!!! Obviously the watches vary as do the people but if YOU are up for it then you wont go short of nights out. It can be a bit of a case of inviting yourself sometimes but in my experience anybody making the effort to get on the social scene here is warmly welcomed and tends to fit in much better at work and the whole Dxb experience becomes a very pleasurable one.

Dct, spot on again mate.

JD2, you make some valid points and none of the serco employees would argue with what you said, however, if you still don't get what you are promised it can be very frustrating. Housing is rarely completely covered for a large family, neither is schooling and our medical plan leaves a bit to be desired also. Some of us do lead a better lifestyle than back home but that is kind of balanced by the fact that we left our family and friends there. YES, it's our choice, but Serco could certainly smooth the passage for us a bit more.

That said, I'm sat fat dumb and happy and had a very easy move here but I do sympathise with some of the people here that seem to get nailed by Serco.

CR
choclit runway is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2007, 05:56
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Age: 46
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
NV

Lost the thread a bit there........

Yeah, for now the dual r/way plan is one of each controller with GMP (delivery) 24/7. To be honest I think with a decent delivery controller restricting departure flow and if radar play the game, one controller will be enough. Especially when the airport is finished (ha ha), and we are in a position (taxiway wise) to fully utilise both runways.

At the mo' gmp is always rostered (when full staff compliment, i.e no-one sick) and opens for specified periods and as required.

I believe though that the plan is to have 2 tower controllers (air), one gmc, one gmp. I'm prepared to be corrected.

Been lots of talk of refurbs and electronic strips but not holding our breaths! Things can move slowly here!

If you are from a unit with a busy rt freq you will be fine here. The traffic and procedures are not complex. The biggest challenge for alot of westerners is tuning your ear to strong Iranian, Indian, and Russian accents to name a few... Oh and some of the SA controller sorts (oooh, the controversy, wait for the Jo'burg backlash shall I?).

Anyhows, like I said, wait for a pay announcement if I was you then come have look!

Ciao.

Last edited by choclit runway; 25th Jun 2007 at 06:00. Reason: more typos than you could throw a spell checker at!
choclit runway is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2007, 08:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dct,
To answer your point(sorry bit slow responding) about ABZ mafia then you're correct to a point.It was called the Kemnay triangle here,and if you weren't in that lodge you had ''Nae chance''.EBM's blue eyed boys have done well,largely due to the fact they were that,but things have moved on hugely since EBM was in the UK.His style of management is from the stone age now,and could get you sacked in Nats.That's unless he was removed already,but he and the ex GM at the time,left ABZ a disaster zone.Lying about people on promotion application forms was a special.We used to see trawl notices,but said except at ABZ cos management will say anything to block it.I could give many examples but I think if anyone has a chance to escape the sandpit,then take it.There will always be people go to the sandpit for whatever reason,but take some body armour and don't be surprised when the knife flies at you.
throw a dyce is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2007, 17:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: world citizen
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Held my pen to the paper, ready to scribble my signature when I saw this thread. Surely it raises some issues, but I'm fortunate enough to be leaving something that isn't that great either so that seems to make the decision a bit easier.

Questions: Is overtime mandatory or will I be allowed to pass? I'm coming for the time off, not the job.

Extra nightshifts. Is it MMENNNSOOO then? Or will I loose some of my days off?

Where do all you guys live? We are thinking about a house in Springs or Lakes. What would your advice be?

Hang in, the beer drinking substitutes are coming before you know it. Get that raise please!!!

Cheers!
Short Approach? is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2007, 06:36
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Age: 46
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey SA

Glad to hear we are getting a fresh one!!!

Through summer, to allow an extra leave line, you will have to do one, maybe two cycles of this pattern: mmnnnnsooo. You wont loose days off. Overtime rarely offered and not mandatory, you are more likely to be offered a deal, some kind of swap, if staffing becomes a real problem.

Springs and particularly Lakes are great if you can get in. A few of your Scandinavian Brethren are in Mirdiff which is an up and coming area very close to airport. You will avoid the traffic but beware low flying aircraft.

We live across the city. My advice is get your name on the list for Palma Springs Villas with the admin office. It's not for everyone and the waiting list is long but offers prime location at bargain prices and with the rumoured leavers the list should move fairly quickly. The villas are a bit older than average but very spacious with nice communal pool area etc. If you go and have look when you arrive and dont like it you can take your name off the list with no harm done.

Will look forward to that cold one. Any more questions, just ask, PM me if you like.
CR
choclit runway is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2007, 21:23
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
hey guys

TAKEN on ANOTHER RIDE here in the SANDPIT...

For all those thinking or still CONSIDERING a move here..Think MORE THAN TWICE!

Apart from the so called Retention Scheme, & the increases in allowances, these so called increases will ONLY be effective ONCE our OLD Contracts have expired.......

Also for 'those' who think that us in the SANDPIT are trying to keep people away from joining, they got it wrong again! For sure they dont know the place as much as we do, & for us it would be better to have more staff for more breaks , as in the meantime people ARE STILL LEAVING & are ABOUT TO CONTINUE LEAVING by YEAR END!

And, for our dear management, to show their appreciation for our few breaks off, we have ALREADY started working on twin rwy ops on 12 direction,, BUT WITH ONLY 1 ATCO, as opposed to what our dear 'friends' down in AUH - GCAA have recommended......although soon we should get 2...of course when......the Staffing Levels are increased....one day ...one day....

Last thing,, as the so called 'Retention Scheme' did not have any positive results...... we were told that a NEW Increase could be on the way.....

Approved by Middle Management.....DCA Management......but..

waiting for H.H.Sheikh Ahmed to sign it off... & EBM to......

Guess what...

Both are AWAY on either EXTENDED OFF - LEAVE or recently away for a Month or more.....

It is TRUE...TIME = MONEY!!!!!!
prowler is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.