Silly little book from the CAA
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Silly little book from the CAA
Today I arrived home from a trip to look on my doorstep at a CAA envelope. Heart stopped for a short while till I opened the wee parcel and revealed a little ring bound book on RT.
How to ask for start up clearance, push back, taxi...... I'm sorry numb nuts but this has clearly been delivered to the wrong house!
I've been asking for these clearances for many years now and through shear simplicity hardly ever accidentally ask for eggs over-easy and a well grilled steak by accident instead of clearance to start and push. I'm assuming most other pilots receive a similar level of basic training. So why am I parting with lots of money to renew my licence every five years to be sent a glossy little christmas card (bit early) reminding me how to speak. I would point out this was compiled by an office w&nker who uses a radio once a year to prove to himself that he can or order a taxi home when he's pissed.
Err.. What the heck is this all about?
Aviate, navigate and talk ****e to someone who is really gonna help you from 500 miles away when your cargo hold is on fire mid atlantic. 14 minutes till we burn to death. Excellent! I'll dig out that silly little book the CAA gave me on how to ask for a start up clearance.
Thanks guys.
How to ask for start up clearance, push back, taxi...... I'm sorry numb nuts but this has clearly been delivered to the wrong house!
I've been asking for these clearances for many years now and through shear simplicity hardly ever accidentally ask for eggs over-easy and a well grilled steak by accident instead of clearance to start and push. I'm assuming most other pilots receive a similar level of basic training. So why am I parting with lots of money to renew my licence every five years to be sent a glossy little christmas card (bit early) reminding me how to speak. I would point out this was compiled by an office w&nker who uses a radio once a year to prove to himself that he can or order a taxi home when he's pissed.
Err.. What the heck is this all about?
Aviate, navigate and talk ****e to someone who is really gonna help you from 500 miles away when your cargo hold is on fire mid atlantic. 14 minutes till we burn to death. Excellent! I'll dig out that silly little book the CAA gave me on how to ask for a start up clearance.
Thanks guys.
Last edited by TheGorrilla; 20th May 2007 at 00:39.
If you read it, you will also notice that not only has it been compiled by a consortium of experts from NATS, CAA SRG, UKFSC and Thordis Ltd (who?), but in several cases, having extolled the virtues of standard phraseology,....they have got it WRONG!
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An interesting document.I had a little ''happening'' the other day,and one of the LCE's comment was too many instructions in one transmission.Yet low and behold on page 20,UK-ILS it says,
''Big jet 345,turn right heading 240 degrees (1),descend to altitude 3000ft (2), report established on localiser,runway 27 right,(3).
Now I got into trouble for using that exact sequence of phrases and the LCE thought it contributed to a level bust by there being 3 instructions rather than 2.
Elsewhere there are other examples of this ,so who's right?
Also at the bottom of that page it says ''Big jet 345,cleared to land rwy 27R,wind 270 degrees ten knots.
Wrong way round,surface wind?
It's a good idea in theory,but I think there are mistakes in there.
''Big jet 345,turn right heading 240 degrees (1),descend to altitude 3000ft (2), report established on localiser,runway 27 right,(3).
Now I got into trouble for using that exact sequence of phrases and the LCE thought it contributed to a level bust by there being 3 instructions rather than 2.
Elsewhere there are other examples of this ,so who's right?Also at the bottom of that page it says ''Big jet 345,cleared to land rwy 27R,wind 270 degrees ten knots.
Wrong way round,surface wind?
It's a good idea in theory,but I think there are mistakes in there.
Avoid imitations
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Glad to hear others got these; I was thinking they sent me one in isolation, and wondered who perhaps complained about me.... 
I'm going to ask for start and pushback tomorrow, in my helicopter.
I'm going to ask for start and pushback tomorrow, in my helicopter.
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Nice and shiney - and a waste of money I think.
Unless of course it gets issued to the American crews (esp the readback section)
ShyT - best you ask for Startup clearance next time you are on the ground at Burnham...... or there will be trouble mate!
Unless of course it gets issued to the American crews (esp the readback section)
ShyT - best you ask for Startup clearance next time you are on the ground at Burnham...... or there will be trouble mate!
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Sadly I haven't received one - I guess they're happy with my R/T. Is this the same thing as was put on the web site a few days ago as a CAP 413 supplement?
If so, it seems like they can't work out who it's for - the thing on the web says it's for pilots so why send it to controllers? If controllers have R/T problems write something for them. The really ironic thing is that the supplement seems to be being publicised to pilots through a FODCOM but maybe being sent individuaslly to controllers!
Even if it's not the same, the web thing is all very glossy, colourful and clever, but the people it's aimed at are grown-ups (and professionals). If I need some information then just give it to me - I suspect that many professional pilots will feel the same way! Fine dress it up a little so it's not completely boring to read but page-turning sounds....pleeeeze, it's for five-year olds!
And that's before I talk about how much it must all cost......and, ultimately, I can't help feeling that either money could be better spent or could be used to reduce charges in some way.
If so, it seems like they can't work out who it's for - the thing on the web says it's for pilots so why send it to controllers? If controllers have R/T problems write something for them. The really ironic thing is that the supplement seems to be being publicised to pilots through a FODCOM but maybe being sent individuaslly to controllers!
Even if it's not the same, the web thing is all very glossy, colourful and clever, but the people it's aimed at are grown-ups (and professionals). If I need some information then just give it to me - I suspect that many professional pilots will feel the same way! Fine dress it up a little so it's not completely boring to read but page-turning sounds....pleeeeze, it's for five-year olds!
And that's before I talk about how much it must all cost......and, ultimately, I can't help feeling that either money could be better spent or could be used to reduce charges in some way.
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RT Booklet
Yep I got one as well, and I am RAF Controller with a PPL so WTF? I can push back my PA28 without pemission. But to be fair it is nice and shiny.............little things and little minds!!
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Throw a Dyce: I'm on the APP course at Hurn and we are told to give 3 instructions in one transmission. For example Heading, level, speed.
Whats it like ''out there'' in reality?
Whats it like ''out there'' in reality?
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we are told to give 3 instructions in one transmission
Or are you taught to "save them up" until you've got three things to say
The real world is Significantly different from CATC. (the constant "London Control" with almost every tx doesn't happen for example.... you don't have time) That said, you Do have to start to learn the basics somewhere. That place is CATC.
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Throw a Dyce: I'm on the APP course at Hurn and we are told to give 3 instructions in one transmission. For example Heading, level, speed.
Whats it like ''out there'' in reality?
Whats it like ''out there'' in reality?
You'll probably only do it the once and use it as a learning experience
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Of course, if everyone was as perfect as you lot think you are, then there wouldn't be so many incidents where communication error was the cause, would there?
Why knock someone trying to do something about it? Luddites...
Why knock someone trying to do something about it? Luddites...
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yeah i bet!! not the same with 1 input using the same voice for all transmissions! not to say they dont do a great job cos they do 
but it must be a different ball game with pilots from all over the world! cant wait!!
but it must be a different ball game with pilots from all over the world! cant wait!!
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Personally I think an email with a link to CAP 413 would have been a better idea, cheaper and more indepth.
During busy stages of flight eg. departure and approach, three instructions at once can be a bit much.
During busy stages of flight eg. departure and approach, three instructions at once can be a bit much.
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Angrel,
There is a piece of shiney plastic out from Nats that says you should try to avoid giving more than 2 instructions in one transmission.That is a change from Mats part 1 which says 3.Defintion of instruction is a bit wooly.
The reality is that you have to correct wrong readbacks everyday,and if you miss one then it's your fault.Never mind external circumstances.If you make a mistake,then someone will find fault,no matter what it is.You don't get brownie points for the ones that get spotted.Oh and watch out for any airline with China in it.Be very careful with them.
There is a piece of shiney plastic out from Nats that says you should try to avoid giving more than 2 instructions in one transmission.That is a change from Mats part 1 which says 3.Defintion of instruction is a bit wooly.
The reality is that you have to correct wrong readbacks everyday,and if you miss one then it's your fault.Never mind external circumstances.If you make a mistake,then someone will find fault,no matter what it is.You don't get brownie points for the ones that get spotted.Oh and watch out for any airline with China in it.Be very careful with them.
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whitehorse
Out of the country at the moment, but my wife tells me that it is waiting for me at home. The suspence is killing me. I think I will have to make it the 3rd thing I do when I get home - put down the suitcase, *********** the wife and then read the booklet.