Ssssshhh!!!!
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It would be good to find out the truth behind this rumour... if the tower are getting it - good on them, however it would be nice for TC Bods to know as some of them are being shafted.
If it is true, it is another little scheme for the management in their divide and conquer the workforce tactics.... (in the way that people who did not receive HTD got a bung to vote it out).
I am sure that in their eyes the more division they can create now, the better for them when the pension issues really start kicking in (probably just after the fund assessment at the end of this year).
If it is true, it is another little scheme for the management in their divide and conquer the workforce tactics.... (in the way that people who did not receive HTD got a bung to vote it out).
I am sure that in their eyes the more division they can create now, the better for them when the pension issues really start kicking in (probably just after the fund assessment at the end of this year).
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Ok some FACTS.
There was NO offer of £10,000.
There has been NO offer of any TOIL to cover extra transit time to the new VCR.
Prospect did not turn anything down, as rumour says from some members of PCS at LHR.
There was NO offer of £10,000.
There has been NO offer of any TOIL to cover extra transit time to the new VCR.
Prospect did not turn anything down, as rumour says from some members of PCS at LHR.
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I heard "as rumour says" similar figures (£9K as opposed to £10K) quoted, followed by the statement that Prospect had rejected this at local rep/mgmt level, and weighed in with a request for 12% on the basic pay plus 6 days TOIL for the 'inconvenience' factors. This request was rejected by local Mgmt, and has now been referred to Prospect Central, who have allegedly said that if LL gets it, then everybody gets it - (which means that no-one will get it).
So, are we still in a state of limbo, or has the issue been handed to either Prospect or PCS at Central level?
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I honestly cannot see a 10% or 12% payout with TOIL happening - it is a pipe dream. Thats more than TC BODS who are having to move house, and have their partners find new jobs! I cannot see many at TC being happy if it's true - and quite rightly.
However even such a scurrilous rumour like this plays into The Red Barrons hands
However even such a scurrilous rumour like this plays into The Red Barrons hands
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GT3
I heard "as rumour says" similar figures (£9K as opposed to £10K) quoted, followed by the statement that Prospect had rejected this at local rep/mgmt level, and weighed in with a request for 12% on the basic pay plus 6 days TOIL for the 'inconvenience' factors. This request was rejected by local Mgmt, and has now been referred to Prospect Central, who have allegedly said that if LL gets it, then everybody gets it - (which means that no-one will get it).
So, are we still in a state of limbo, or has the issue been handed to either Prospect or PCS at Central level?
I heard "as rumour says" similar figures (£9K as opposed to £10K) quoted, followed by the statement that Prospect had rejected this at local rep/mgmt level, and weighed in with a request for 12% on the basic pay plus 6 days TOIL for the 'inconvenience' factors. This request was rejected by local Mgmt, and has now been referred to Prospect Central, who have allegedly said that if LL gets it, then everybody gets it - (which means that no-one will get it).
So, are we still in a state of limbo, or has the issue been handed to either Prospect or PCS at Central level?
Well whoever told you that must have been at a different Prospect Local and Local Management meeting to me.
I will re-iterate NO offer was made. NO percentage claim was requested by Prospect locally.
I understand it is only at Prospect centrally.
Last edited by GT3; 25th Oct 2006 at 13:54. Reason: Removed quote
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Used to work at EGLL. Assume (correct me if I'm wrong)that this is to do with extra time it takes/hassle getting to the new tower????
If thats the case, surely they should work out the difference between arriving at the old tower and the new?? Then either give the diffference in TOIL or take that into account in the WPP average hours... After all if you work at EGLL its not your fault you're being asked to take more time out of your life to attend work, and, no other unit should be able to leap on the band wagon! Just an opinion... ( as i prepare to get gunned down!!)
If thats the case, surely they should work out the difference between arriving at the old tower and the new?? Then either give the diffference in TOIL or take that into account in the WPP average hours... After all if you work at EGLL its not your fault you're being asked to take more time out of your life to attend work, and, no other unit should be able to leap on the band wagon! Just an opinion... ( as i prepare to get gunned down!!)
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ATSA Grunt... as far as I know this simple formula was looked at early on but the number of extra days (TOIL) for each ATCO did not fit into the unit model at EGLL. Next suggestion!
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Incorrect statement.
PCS has only ever had one view on this negotiation. Whatever the outcome it has to be equal for everybody, from management down to store man. The issue is over extra time taken to get to work, therefore taking up your own time leaving earlier and getting home later. Everyone’s spare time is equal, and it would take a very arrogant person to assume that theirs is worth more than anybody else’s!
A Percentage is not equal, and therefore would not be accepted.
It is also incorrect to say Prospect Locally have asked for a percentage. They did not!
As for your “coat-tails” GT3, I find this comment divisive, completely unnecessary and not in the least bit helpful, unless it was your aim to wind up the entire ATSA contingent at Heathrow. In which case I am sure you have succeeded in achieving your aim!
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times New Roman]As for your “coat-tails” GT3, I find this comment divisive, completely unnecessary and not in the least bit helpful, unless it was your aim to wind up the entire ATSA contingent at Heathrow. In which case I am sure you have succeeded in achieving your aim!
The comment was more aimed at those who have been "mouthing off" about the Prospect ATCOs negotiation team of late. Which is also as you put it divisive and unnecessary.
I will withdraw the coat-tails part of my previous post.
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ok ok - chill out folks!
I dont think the LL ATSAs will be sharpening the daggers just yet - this kind of inter-Union scenario is old hat to us now
. What's more important is how we proceed from here.
I cannot see how any other Unit other than LL should be in receipt of anything which is negotiated between the LL Union reps/members and the local Mgmt. Nobody outside of LL is 'inconvenienced' by the move to NVCR.
Although I totally support our local PCS reps in their efforts to look after us, I do not accept the all-for-one, one-for-all Union mentality of yesteryear. Those days are long gone, and we're not going to see other Units standing on picket lines or voting against NATS Management over issues which, frankly, have nothing to do with them.
This is essentially a local issue, and we must address it locally. Taking it outside of the Heathrow arena is a waste of time - we will all end up with nothing anyway.
I dont think the LL ATSAs will be sharpening the daggers just yet - this kind of inter-Union scenario is old hat to us now
. What's more important is how we proceed from here. I cannot see how any other Unit other than LL should be in receipt of anything which is negotiated between the LL Union reps/members and the local Mgmt. Nobody outside of LL is 'inconvenienced' by the move to NVCR.
Although I totally support our local PCS reps in their efforts to look after us, I do not accept the all-for-one, one-for-all Union mentality of yesteryear. Those days are long gone, and we're not going to see other Units standing on picket lines or voting against NATS Management over issues which, frankly, have nothing to do with them.
This is essentially a local issue, and we must address it locally. Taking it outside of the Heathrow arena is a waste of time - we will all end up with nothing anyway.
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GT3 - There's a basic problem with Union negotiations at LL (and maybe at other places as well?) - that is, its all very 'cloak-and-dagger'. The Reps rarely report back to the members about what happened, and it's all this "sorry, but I cannot say anything about this issue" stuff that causes the rumour mill to rumble on.
In the interests of all workers at LL, it would help if the Reps from both unions were not afraid to speak to any of us about issues of a joint nature (such as NVCR move).
What's wrong with the Reps just telling us as it is - good or bad? Either way, eventually they're going to have to tell us anyway. Keeping us in the dark is not helpful, and generates much ill feeling on the Unit.
In the interests of all workers at LL, it would help if the Reps from both unions were not afraid to speak to any of us about issues of a joint nature (such as NVCR move).
What's wrong with the Reps just telling us as it is - good or bad? Either way, eventually they're going to have to tell us anyway. Keeping us in the dark is not helpful, and generates much ill feeling on the Unit.
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Atsa Grunt
Devils advocate here:
Why should you get more just because it takes longer to get into work??
Using the NATS autoroute, the new tower will be at most a mile farther for some people - the same autoroute they use to determine other people will be shafted at other units.
So what happens to people that are posted into the tower after this is all settled... do they get the TOIL - they shouldn't as it is no different to what they know.
Then you would have the possibility of people in the same job, in the same watch being given extra leave.
I think this is a lot more complicated than at first seems. What about the time it will take people to drive from the main gate, find a parking space and then get into the ops room/office at LACC when TC moves down and parking spaces do not exist for everyone?!!
Devils advocate here:
Why should you get more just because it takes longer to get into work??
Using the NATS autoroute, the new tower will be at most a mile farther for some people - the same autoroute they use to determine other people will be shafted at other units.
So what happens to people that are posted into the tower after this is all settled... do they get the TOIL - they shouldn't as it is no different to what they know.
Then you would have the possibility of people in the same job, in the same watch being given extra leave.
I think this is a lot more complicated than at first seems. What about the time it will take people to drive from the main gate, find a parking space and then get into the ops room/office at LACC when TC moves down and parking spaces do not exist for everyone?!!
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GT3 - There's a basic problem with Union negotiations at LL (and maybe at other places as well?) - that is, its all very 'cloak-and-dagger'. The Reps rarely report back to the members about what happened, and it's all this "sorry, but I cannot say anything about this issue" stuff that causes the rumour mill to rumble on.
In the interests of all workers at LL, it would help if the Reps from both unions were not afraid to speak to any of us about issues of a joint nature (such as NVCR move).
What's wrong with the Reps just telling us as it is - good or bad? Either way, eventually they're going to have to tell us anyway. Keeping us in the dark is not helpful, and generates much ill feeling on the Unit.
In the interests of all workers at LL, it would help if the Reps from both unions were not afraid to speak to any of us about issues of a joint nature (such as NVCR move).
What's wrong with the Reps just telling us as it is - good or bad? Either way, eventually they're going to have to tell us anyway. Keeping us in the dark is not helpful, and generates much ill feeling on the Unit.
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Anotherthing
I'm sure all at Heathrow would completely agree that it seems that TC are getting shafted on the move to LACC. What are prospect doing about this?
You can always make your own stand by dropping extra validations, withdrawing from training and stop doing AAVA's.
These are all things being considered by the tower ATCOs if we don't get a fair deal.
LL and TC are in the same boat here.
The whole thing is another example of poor mangement by NATS, they've had years to sort these issues out!
No surprise when we have a leader who doesn't understand simple economics of supply and demand (never mind understand the complex job his workforce do at the coalface), yet he has 36 years experience in Alstom
Read the speech he gave on the intranet.
The key thing is all grades at all units must stick together on this.
Am I correct in saying Swanick guys and gals had plenty of money thrown at them to make sure they didn't have to put O date back again?
I think this is a lot more complicated than at first seems. What about the time it will take people to drive from the main gate, find a parking space and then get into the ops room/office at LACC when TC moves down and parking spaces do not exist for everyone?!!
You can always make your own stand by dropping extra validations, withdrawing from training and stop doing AAVA's.
These are all things being considered by the tower ATCOs if we don't get a fair deal.
LL and TC are in the same boat here.
The whole thing is another example of poor mangement by NATS, they've had years to sort these issues out!
No surprise when we have a leader who doesn't understand simple economics of supply and demand (never mind understand the complex job his workforce do at the coalface), yet he has 36 years experience in Alstom
Read the speech he gave on the intranet.
The key thing is all grades at all units must stick together on this.
Am I correct in saying Swanick guys and gals had plenty of money thrown at them to make sure they didn't have to put O date back again?