Ssssshhh!!!!
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YS - never happened in the past, and not much chance of this happening now unless the Unions start working with each other in the truest sense. The various issues mentioned on this thread are specific local issues, and need to be resolved as such. Referring local issues 'Centrally' is a pointless exercise, and confuses the issue, because the Unions' stance is historically based on everybody getting the same, rather than supporting the local claimaints.
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White Hart
Quite correct - going national helps no-one but this was forced on both Prospect AND Mgt locally by NATS Senior Management's recalcitrance to be seen to bow to the pressure brought to bear by the ATCOs who are getting royaly shafted.
The stance now being taken (that of "We won't give in to the ATCOs/ATSAs, we're the bosses) at both LL and TC, coupled with the ill-advsied and incredibly badly judged comments delivered by the CEO to the Aviation Club of GB, amply display that NATS "new breed" of senior managers believe that they can continue with their reckless policy displayed at their previous employers - "F8ck the workers, we'll make a pretty penny for the company then retire on that". I bet Barron's big fat pension won't be under threat if he screws ours in the next few years....
My point is this - we're all of us on here cos we're getting done over and if we can't stick together now then we never will. It is time to show that our allegiance in not to our validation, or to NATS, but to fairness and adequate recompense for undertaking (successfully and incredibly safely) the ever increasingly complex task of ensuring the safety of the flying public. It wasn't our decision to move either unit but we, The Coal Face Staff, are the ones who are paying with our time. Yes Gonzo, even me
P7
Quite correct - going national helps no-one but this was forced on both Prospect AND Mgt locally by NATS Senior Management's recalcitrance to be seen to bow to the pressure brought to bear by the ATCOs who are getting royaly shafted.
The stance now being taken (that of "We won't give in to the ATCOs/ATSAs, we're the bosses) at both LL and TC, coupled with the ill-advsied and incredibly badly judged comments delivered by the CEO to the Aviation Club of GB, amply display that NATS "new breed" of senior managers believe that they can continue with their reckless policy displayed at their previous employers - "F8ck the workers, we'll make a pretty penny for the company then retire on that". I bet Barron's big fat pension won't be under threat if he screws ours in the next few years....
My point is this - we're all of us on here cos we're getting done over and if we can't stick together now then we never will. It is time to show that our allegiance in not to our validation, or to NATS, but to fairness and adequate recompense for undertaking (successfully and incredibly safely) the ever increasingly complex task of ensuring the safety of the flying public. It wasn't our decision to move either unit but we, The Coal Face Staff, are the ones who are paying with our time. Yes Gonzo, even me
P7
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And further to this, GT3 and the rest of the Prospect reps were doing (in fact ARE doing) a grand job and we should be thanking them not stabbing them in the back with petty comments.
This thread has been brought into fruition not by their poor performance, but by another member of another union spreading ridiculous rumours cos he thinks he has got a plan. Some bloody plan.
P7
This thread has been brought into fruition not by their poor performance, but by another member of another union spreading ridiculous rumours cos he thinks he has got a plan. Some bloody plan.
P7
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Hi P7 - first, I endorse your point about the Reps trying to do their best 
- at least I like to think that my PCS Reps are doing that. There is one point of issue that I do regret, however, - that the Coal Face Workers are not consulted or informed more before these Union/Mgmt meetings take place, because I/we don't actually know if my/our opinions are being represented. There's no open dialogue between Reps and CFWs, and when issues are getting as serious as this, the dialogue should be going full tilt both ways!
With regard to NVCR move issues (not EFPS) if you asked me what it is that my Union is trying to achieve on my behalf, or what the current position is, then, apart from generalisations, I cannot tell you, because I have no knowledge of what it is that's being discussed. Apart from rest-room chit-chat, nobody from PCS has asked me for my ideas or opinions, and nobody is reporting anything back in what might be regarded as an 'official capacity'. I would expect this situation to be the same for most, if not all, non-BEC PCS ATSAs at LL.
Apart from the biased, one-sided bogroll publication that is 'Countdown' (where 'everything is proceeding according to plan' -yeah right!
) then rumour is the only means of communication - hardly the best way for a Union to liase with the people it represents, and certainly not the best way to garner the support and confidence of the members.
I trust that the situation will change - it needs to change - especially if we're being asked (or even expected) to 'stick together'.
- at least I like to think that my PCS Reps are doing that. There is one point of issue that I do regret, however, - that the Coal Face Workers are not consulted or informed more before these Union/Mgmt meetings take place, because I/we don't actually know if my/our opinions are being represented. There's no open dialogue between Reps and CFWs, and when issues are getting as serious as this, the dialogue should be going full tilt both ways!With regard to NVCR move issues (not EFPS) if you asked me what it is that my Union is trying to achieve on my behalf, or what the current position is, then, apart from generalisations, I cannot tell you, because I have no knowledge of what it is that's being discussed. Apart from rest-room chit-chat, nobody from PCS has asked me for my ideas or opinions, and nobody is reporting anything back in what might be regarded as an 'official capacity'. I would expect this situation to be the same for most, if not all, non-BEC PCS ATSAs at LL.
Apart from the biased, one-sided bogroll publication that is 'Countdown' (where 'everything is proceeding according to plan' -yeah right!
) then rumour is the only means of communication - hardly the best way for a Union to liase with the people it represents, and certainly not the best way to garner the support and confidence of the members.I trust that the situation will change - it needs to change - especially if we're being asked (or even expected) to 'stick together'.
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I can't speak for PCS as I have no knowledge of their operations (other than the occasional sh1t stirring rumour
) but Prospect always tell their members that it is THEIR union and it imperative on them to get involved.
If your Reps aren't representing you, hunt them down and force your opinion on them
P7
) but Prospect always tell their members that it is THEIR union and it imperative on them to get involved.If your Reps aren't representing you, hunt them down and force your opinion on them
P7
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White Hart -
You always revert to the argument -
Are you this negative in all aspects of your life? That was then this is now. History is history. People who keep raking it up cause damage to any chances of working together now and in the future.
If you are so dissatisfied - become a Union Rep!!
Yellow Snow - I agree with you entirely, LL and TC are being shafted - the terms are different, but the result is the same!
As for reading the speech on the intranet -If you go to the NATS forum you will find out what I think of his speech.....
You always revert to the argument -
....never happened in the past, and not much chance....
If you are so dissatisfied - become a Union Rep!!
Yellow Snow - I agree with you entirely, LL and TC are being shafted - the terms are different, but the result is the same!
As for reading the speech on the intranet -If you go to the NATS forum you will find out what I think of his speech.....
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Can't possibly give 'em ammo to use against me when they (Mgmt & Unions) start looking at who to get rid of next July - not that they have even the most remotest, basic idea of how to achieve this fairly, but that's for another thread... For the current issue, a statement from the Unions (either individually or jointly (hah!)) as to exactly where we are at this moment might be a helpful start. Cut out all the rumour, and then we all know where we stand.
After that, yes, it's down to us to get involved if possible.
anotherthing - I was a Union Rep - I stood down because I would not follow the LL BEC line of letting Central PCS override our local issues in favour of national ones. There are/were specific issues at LL which needed resolving at a local level, just like the NVCR move being discussed here - because they only apply to us!
As for the quote you have given - I shall stand by that, because that's exactly how it is. The two Unions, and their respective memberships, have never realistically worked together in any shape or form, right up to the present day.
Last edited by White Hart; 26th Oct 2006 at 08:55.
