NATS ATCO Pay Deal Accepted
Join Date: Oct 2004
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niteflite01,
from CE's email:
PCS, Prospect ATCO Branch and Prospect ATSS Branch have all accepted the proposals that were reached through extensive negotiations held between NATS and the Trade Unions representatives.
from CE's email:
PCS, Prospect ATCO Branch and Prospect ATSS Branch have all accepted the proposals that were reached through extensive negotiations held between NATS and the Trade Unions representatives.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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To take the Uni comparison further, you suffer your 4 years of debt, destitution and cold baked bean and beer sandwichs. But chances are you are a single student living in a crappy little flat just out of school.
This means that £10000 a year to go to "ATC Uni" is pretty good, if you are a single school leaver.
If you have any kind of financial commitment = mortgage, wife, kids, dog, previous debt. I really dont see how it could be done.
You chaps have my sympathy
And for all you school leavers you folks have my envy. Think how much beer £10000 would buy you.
This means that £10000 a year to go to "ATC Uni" is pretty good, if you are a single school leaver.
If you have any kind of financial commitment = mortgage, wife, kids, dog, previous debt. I really dont see how it could be done.
You chaps have my sympathy
And for all you school leavers you folks have my envy. Think how much beer £10000 would buy you.
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Good point from coolbeans. So if ATC wants to attract school leavers, congratulations. However to succeed as an ATCO you can't beat a bit of maturity, not going to get the people in their mid twenties now, myself or my wife wouldn't have been able to accept that low pay, and that was 5 years ago for her 15 for me!!!!
Boy am I getting old!!!
Boy am I getting old!!!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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How many students leave uni, having been paid £10K pa and then step into a job with earning potential of upto £70,000 and above in a fairly short period of time? Not many I would suggest. The success rates of candidates has reduced significantly recently, and with the introduction of 'online' applications combined with a relatively high salary at the college, NATS is running the risk of attracting the wrong type of person. NATS is still offering a good deal for wannabe ATCO's. What we are saying is that we will pay you a certain amount of money whilst you are training, we will pay the £350,000 it costs to get you through training to validation and then we will pay you a respectable salary, which is higher than all of our competitors, (with Bupa cover as extra in a couple of years!!)
I funderstand the family issue, and yes I agree that maybe some allowance could have been made for this, but it hasn't. And if it's what you really want to do, then you will find a way of funding the short fall. After all trainee pilots do.
I funderstand the family issue, and yes I agree that maybe some allowance could have been made for this, but it hasn't. And if it's what you really want to do, then you will find a way of funding the short fall. After all trainee pilots do.
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i'm not even sure if i've passed the aptittude tests yet but i know that i really really want to do this so i will take the job, should i get offered one, because its the only thing i want to do.
However, there are people who have mortgages and families and if you are the main earner, £10,000 just wont get you far but as its already been said, its only 10mths at the most, after which your pay will start increasing.......and then we wont be moaning!!
if you're more worried about the pay than the future prospects of this job (which we all know could be pretty good) then maybe its time to get out now...........before you take the place of someone who really wants it?!
thats not meant to get anyone's back up of course,i'm just simply airing my views
However, there are people who have mortgages and families and if you are the main earner, £10,000 just wont get you far but as its already been said, its only 10mths at the most, after which your pay will start increasing.......and then we wont be moaning!!
if you're more worried about the pay than the future prospects of this job (which we all know could be pretty good) then maybe its time to get out now...........before you take the place of someone who really wants it?!
thats not meant to get anyone's back up of course,i'm just simply airing my views
The success rate of candidates has been poor for a long time due to the fact the selection procedures tend to favour ex-university types with no interest in aviation who are looking for a well paid job.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Chevron,
The only requirement for a training slot at the college is two A Levels and success at apptitude/interview level, being a graduate has no bearing whatsoever. You can just as easliy be somebody with only 2 A levels, no interest in aviation and an eye on a good salary!!!
The only requirement for a training slot at the college is two A Levels and success at apptitude/interview level, being a graduate has no bearing whatsoever. You can just as easliy be somebody with only 2 A levels, no interest in aviation and an eye on a good salary!!!
Actually, you do not need ANY A levels, merely to have studied at that sort of level. One of the best cadets on my course only had GCSEs whereas the PhD did not validate in NATS. The course and training is not academic, although there is a lot to learn, but aptitude is the thing that no-one really seems to be able to select or predict acurately.
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Maybe I am missing the point but is it just possible NATS has a multitude of experienced and keen potential ATCO's within its ranks in the form of Air Traffic Assistants and other support staff? Does NATS not have some sort of internal trawl system in place for the benefit of these potential candidates?
I know a s**t hot FISO who would make an excellent ATCO, but he has no GCSE's therefore can't even be an ATSA!
Anyway, Band 1 and 2 units shafted in favour of 4 & 5 units as usual; there should have been some measure to reduce the differentials between the bands. Don't get me wrong, of course operational 5's should get more than operational 1/2/3, but why are the college in band 5? And why are ATSOCA's ignored as 'unquantifiable' when LARS units are required to keep comprehensive records of their movements?
Anyway, Band 1 and 2 units shafted in favour of 4 & 5 units as usual; there should have been some measure to reduce the differentials between the bands. Don't get me wrong, of course operational 5's should get more than operational 1/2/3, but why are the college in band 5? And why are ATSOCA's ignored as 'unquantifiable' when LARS units are required to keep comprehensive records of their movements?
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Unfortunately only those units who provide ATSOCAs or LARS understand the amount of work that goes into them, they are also in the brand New NATS not revenue earning so don't even show as a Blip on the board members radar screens.
We are not going to get the banding scheme changed we have to unfortunately live with it.
I really feel we have sold ourselves down the river with accepting this pay deal, next year who knows what the RPI will be but if it less than the 2.3% forecast I wonder how those who voted yes will feel. Will we next time around get told it will be a 4 year deal 5 year deal etc ?
My biggest disappointment though has been the way we have potentially shafted ourselves for the future with trainees, second jobbers will probably not even consider applying now as they, however much will want to do the job will find themselves unable to afford to do it. Second jobbers often came in with the most enormous commitment and put in so much effort to succeed.
The current training scheme seems to have been a failure, I don't hold out much hope for the future.
We are not going to get the banding scheme changed we have to unfortunately live with it.
I really feel we have sold ourselves down the river with accepting this pay deal, next year who knows what the RPI will be but if it less than the 2.3% forecast I wonder how those who voted yes will feel. Will we next time around get told it will be a 4 year deal 5 year deal etc ?
My biggest disappointment though has been the way we have potentially shafted ourselves for the future with trainees, second jobbers will probably not even consider applying now as they, however much will want to do the job will find themselves unable to afford to do it. Second jobbers often came in with the most enormous commitment and put in so much effort to succeed.
The current training scheme seems to have been a failure, I don't hold out much hope for the future.
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That's not strictly true.... There are many of us at non-radar units that fully appreciate the huge amount of effort and care that goes into ATSOCA/LARS.
The company are the ones that choose not to take into account all the "non-revenue earning" services that are provided by you good folk out at the Cardiffs/Farnboroughs/Edinburghs, etc. Unfortunately the people further up the management chain forget that we provide a "safety based service" and not a "let's make loads of cash" service.
The way things are going with this company at the moment, we should all be pretty glad that we aren't PCG grades.... Because they are going to be dropping like flies if the top team have their way, and they aren't anywhere near as well protected as us ATCOs are.
The company are the ones that choose not to take into account all the "non-revenue earning" services that are provided by you good folk out at the Cardiffs/Farnboroughs/Edinburghs, etc. Unfortunately the people further up the management chain forget that we provide a "safety based service" and not a "let's make loads of cash" service.
The way things are going with this company at the moment, we should all be pretty glad that we aren't PCG grades.... Because they are going to be dropping like flies if the top team have their way, and they aren't anywhere near as well protected as us ATCOs are.
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KISS
There is no internal trawl of assistants in NATS, as a current NATS assistant I have to apply for position as a trainee ATCO in exactly the same manner as anyone from outside NATS.
There is no internal trawl of assistants in NATS, as a current NATS assistant I have to apply for position as a trainee ATCO in exactly the same manner as anyone from outside NATS.
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Originally Posted by SilentHandover
KISS
There is no internal trawl of assistants in NATS, as a current NATS assistant I have to apply for position as a trainee ATCO in exactly the same manner as anyone from outside NATS.
There is no internal trawl of assistants in NATS, as a current NATS assistant I have to apply for position as a trainee ATCO in exactly the same manner as anyone from outside NATS.
there was a trawl last May for ex trainee atcos to apply and try to get back into Atco training - this was responded to by quite a few current ATSA's.
When I was at the college there was one ATSA on the course with me - he was on mark time ATSA pay until his ATCO salary caught up.
Nowadays they have to apply like the rest - resign there jobs as ATSA's and start on the same basic salary as new employees - even for people at the start of the ATSA 1 scale this more than halfs there pay (when you take into account UHP which they currently get paid, with no guarantee of an ATSA position should they fail the course. This means that one source of aviation experienced potential trainee atco's is removed.
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I would not consider it an attractive proposition, Resign from a "secure" post, take a 50% pay cut, and at the end of it as a "reward" the prospect of working for thirty years on the radar at Swanwick!. NATS does not deserve the calibre of staff that it has, but for how much longer I wonder?
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Interesting you use the word 'secure' regarding ATSAs, DC10, that's not the case everywhere, unfortunately.
And chevvron, the college is band 5 because nobody would want to work there otherwise.
And chevvron, the college is band 5 because nobody would want to work there otherwise.
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Originally Posted by TATC
there was a trawl last May for ex trainee atcos to apply and try to get back into Atco training - this was responded to by quite a few current ATSA's.
When I was at the college there was one ATSA on the course with me - he was on mark time ATSA pay until his ATCO salary caught up.
Nowadays they have to apply like the rest - resign there jobs as ATSA's and start on the same basic salary as new employees - even for people at the start of the ATSA 1 scale this more than halfs there pay (when you take into account UHP which they currently get paid, with no guarantee of an ATSA position should they fail the course. This means that one source of aviation experienced potential trainee atco's is removed.
When I was at the college there was one ATSA on the course with me - he was on mark time ATSA pay until his ATCO salary caught up.
Nowadays they have to apply like the rest - resign there jobs as ATSA's and start on the same basic salary as new employees - even for people at the start of the ATSA 1 scale this more than halfs there pay (when you take into account UHP which they currently get paid, with no guarantee of an ATSA position should they fail the course. This means that one source of aviation experienced potential trainee atco's is removed.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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If the trainee pay was this low three years ago when I started with Nats, I wouldn't have started, i wouldnt have been able to afford to.
Just to put the trainee pay into perspective
Asda Graduate Scheme £21000
Halfords Deputy Store manager £14000
Person taking Car insurance reports over the phone £13000 per annum.
118 188 operator £ 12000
Nats Trainee ATCO £10000
That looks mighty impressive!
Just to put the trainee pay into perspective
Asda Graduate Scheme £21000
Halfords Deputy Store manager £14000
Person taking Car insurance reports over the phone £13000 per annum.
118 188 operator £ 12000
Nats Trainee ATCO £10000
That looks mighty impressive!