"Bye", "Cheers", "Have a good weekend"
Freebird
I have a great deal of sympathy with your view. I don't have any problem with a cheery "goodbye" if the frequency is not busy and it's a "matey" sort of environment where you hear the same voices every day. BUT the problem is that the pleasantries become ingrained and pointless. The pilot making initial contact does not know how active it is and furthermore neither party could probably really care less if the other has a good day!
Case in point - airprox in a TMA, pilot made incorrect report not noticed by ATC, everyone wishing everyone alse good morning and one of the factors being a high workload with busy RT. Worth considering how many seconds of RT time was being wasted with pleasantries. I am not against them in the right circumstances but I would suggest that that environment is not one.
Similarly - poor RT habits generally, mainly from pilots, but to some extent ATC - in a class G scenario. When it's not busy, no problem, but suddenly when it gets busy it becomes a major factor in working efficiently or the whole thing turning into a can of worms.
Achtung
You say...
"I bet you're the same person that doesn't give way at a junction because it's "your right of way"? "
Don't quite follow the analogy - are you one of the clowns who tries to get me to drive out across your bows at a junction when there is no traffic problem, thus encouraging me to collide with the other vehicle from my right (UK) or kill the cyclist overtaking you on your left? And all because you are too idle to turn the wheel and get on with the job?
There's another thread, perhaps!
I have a great deal of sympathy with your view. I don't have any problem with a cheery "goodbye" if the frequency is not busy and it's a "matey" sort of environment where you hear the same voices every day. BUT the problem is that the pleasantries become ingrained and pointless. The pilot making initial contact does not know how active it is and furthermore neither party could probably really care less if the other has a good day!
Case in point - airprox in a TMA, pilot made incorrect report not noticed by ATC, everyone wishing everyone alse good morning and one of the factors being a high workload with busy RT. Worth considering how many seconds of RT time was being wasted with pleasantries. I am not against them in the right circumstances but I would suggest that that environment is not one.
Similarly - poor RT habits generally, mainly from pilots, but to some extent ATC - in a class G scenario. When it's not busy, no problem, but suddenly when it gets busy it becomes a major factor in working efficiently or the whole thing turning into a can of worms.
Achtung
You say...
"I bet you're the same person that doesn't give way at a junction because it's "your right of way"? "
Don't quite follow the analogy - are you one of the clowns who tries to get me to drive out across your bows at a junction when there is no traffic problem, thus encouraging me to collide with the other vehicle from my right (UK) or kill the cyclist overtaking you on your left? And all because you are too idle to turn the wheel and get on with the job?
There's another thread, perhaps!
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Flying can be a very lonely occupation. I have always been gratefull for the little humanising touches. A polite good morning on first contact has made long solos bearable. I hate chit chat but gooday / goodbye takes no time at all.
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effortless,
I, too, do long solos (the endurance of my aircraft is being upped to 9 hours as I write) and find that the best solution is an FM tranny plugged into the 340. Works brilliantly, though you do have to retune fairly regularly.
Hugely preferable to an MP3 player because of the human touch of listening to Radio 4, France Inter or whatever.
I, too, do long solos (the endurance of my aircraft is being upped to 9 hours as I write) and find that the best solution is an FM tranny plugged into the 340. Works brilliantly, though you do have to retune fairly regularly.
Hugely preferable to an MP3 player because of the human touch of listening to Radio 4, France Inter or whatever.
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I don't fly so much now and long solos are probably in the past, though I live in hope. I used to listen to the radio until I heard an anouncer one day, asking an unknown aircraft, some where over the south of England, to stop broadcasting Woman's Hour over 121.5. I don't think that it was me but I was a bit shaken up. 
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I can see both points of view - however I go for the slightly less formal 
approach and shorten the "Good Mornings" and a "London...Good afternoon.." etc in order to take up less airtime.
So generally if you hear "Hi London, Birdseed blah blah blah" - it's me.
approach and shorten the "Good Mornings" and a "London...Good afternoon.." etc in order to take up less airtime.So generally if you hear "Hi London, Birdseed blah blah blah" - it's me.
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Although I am a keen advocate of "Stand up - Seak up & Shut up" method of R/T, there's nothing wrong with saying "goodbye, good morning" etc, the more experienced on the R/T you are, the quicker you can say it.
If you don't want to or are too busy to reply, you don't have to.
If you don't want to or are too busy to reply, you don't have to.
Ohcirrej
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the quicker you can say it.
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....some military controllers seem to pride themselves on it, and don't seem to have worked out that being asked to repeat something three times is actually slower than saying it at a slower rate in the first place 
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2 sheds
ok, First might I suggest you change your name to 2 planks? Preferably short? And secondly, I shall explain the analogy for you, seeing as giving a greeting and trying to understand this is a little too much for you.
The greeting 'hello' or 'goodbye' is non-standard RT no? So, I compared this to my experience of driving in the UK, I noticed how many people gave way and said thank you, by raising their hand. I take it, that this is NOT a standard given by your authorities for your driving exam? I.E Not standard, but everyone does it as a politeness? I actually found it pleasant and made the driving experience a pleasant one. However, I find that in many other countries, that people could make driving so much more pleasant if we did the same as the Brits? In fact it would make some junctions more bearable and usable by simply giving way sometimes?) And to answer your other question, no, sorry I am not one of those clowns that would create a dangerous situation just to let you go, but I like to think I am a competent driver, and though I like to think I get 'the job done' generally by driving to the rules of the road, I DO occasionally take that drastic non-standard step of giving way and saying thank you now and then..... oh dear... oh dear..... awful heh? All this polite behaviour?? Oh and good evening.
The greeting 'hello' or 'goodbye' is non-standard RT no? So, I compared this to my experience of driving in the UK, I noticed how many people gave way and said thank you, by raising their hand. I take it, that this is NOT a standard given by your authorities for your driving exam? I.E Not standard, but everyone does it as a politeness? I actually found it pleasant and made the driving experience a pleasant one. However, I find that in many other countries, that people could make driving so much more pleasant if we did the same as the Brits? In fact it would make some junctions more bearable and usable by simply giving way sometimes?) And to answer your other question, no, sorry I am not one of those clowns that would create a dangerous situation just to let you go, but I like to think I am a competent driver, and though I like to think I get 'the job done' generally by driving to the rules of the road, I DO occasionally take that drastic non-standard step of giving way and saying thank you now and then..... oh dear... oh dear..... awful heh? All this polite behaviour?? Oh and good evening.
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HI all,
As far as I'm concerned, politeness is a must; with niceties if time allows. Simple as that.
I was taught by someone who pointed out to me that if a pilot said goodbye to me I would almost automatically respond with goodbye, taking an extra transmission, whereas if I said it as I transferred them the extra transmission would go.
Of course if you are so busy that the r/t time is that precious that all niceties should dissappear then they should, but perhaps it also means that you're just a bit too busy and should maybe be split/regulated?
Besides, I'm a friendly type by nature, and I enjoy my job. Why shouldn't I try to make another persons day a little nicer by being pleasant if I can be?
(Or outrageously flirtatious if time allows....
)
Cheers,
N
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
As far as I'm concerned, politeness is a must; with niceties if time allows. Simple as that.
I was taught by someone who pointed out to me that if a pilot said goodbye to me I would almost automatically respond with goodbye, taking an extra transmission, whereas if I said it as I transferred them the extra transmission would go.
Of course if you are so busy that the r/t time is that precious that all niceties should dissappear then they should, but perhaps it also means that you're just a bit too busy and should maybe be split/regulated?
Besides, I'm a friendly type by nature, and I enjoy my job. Why shouldn't I try to make another persons day a little nicer by being pleasant if I can be?
(Or outrageously flirtatious if time allows....
)Cheers,
N
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
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Hi all
I'm a ppl pilot studying for ATPL's and am fascinated by RT.
My standard initial call to Dublin ATC when flying out of EIWT is always
" Dublin Good Morning/.Afternoon/Evening, EIXXX"
It somehow seems extreemly rude to just announce your presence "Dublin EIXXX"....?
Does it really p**S controllers off?
It only takes 1/2 a second to say gmorning after all, and when I transfer back to EIWT after a traffic info service, I always say, "thank you for your assistance" because I want the guy/girl at the end of the line to know I appreciate the service, it's hardly what you would call tying up the airwaves now is it? Better to be grateful and polite and receive help when you need it than to come across rudely and abruptly...and be sent to a hold somewhere...?
My opinion is common courtesy only takes a sec, and I would hate to loose it.
cheers
I'm a ppl pilot studying for ATPL's and am fascinated by RT.
My standard initial call to Dublin ATC when flying out of EIWT is always
" Dublin Good Morning/.Afternoon/Evening, EIXXX"
It somehow seems extreemly rude to just announce your presence "Dublin EIXXX"....?
Does it really p**S controllers off?
It only takes 1/2 a second to say gmorning after all, and when I transfer back to EIWT after a traffic info service, I always say, "thank you for your assistance" because I want the guy/girl at the end of the line to know I appreciate the service, it's hardly what you would call tying up the airwaves now is it? Better to be grateful and polite and receive help when you need it than to come across rudely and abruptly...and be sent to a hold somewhere...?
My opinion is common courtesy only takes a sec, and I would hate to loose it.
cheers
I never say anything unnecessary on initial call because I have no idea how busy they are, having just tuned in. They might even be in the middle of a mayday situation.
After having been on the freq for some minutes I have a better idea of how busy, and if not busy, I might become more verbose, especially when leaving.
Where I fly, it can be quite busy, so the minimal initial call often immediately results in a "XX-XXX Standby", but then again they NEVER forget you, always come back in a minute or so.
BTW, powdermonkey, isn't "Dublin Good Morning/.Afternoon/Evening, EIXXX" poor RT ? Shouldn't Dublin's full callsign be used in an initial call, and shouldn't the niceties go at the end ?
After having been on the freq for some minutes I have a better idea of how busy, and if not busy, I might become more verbose, especially when leaving.
Where I fly, it can be quite busy, so the minimal initial call often immediately results in a "XX-XXX Standby", but then again they NEVER forget you, always come back in a minute or so.
BTW, powdermonkey, isn't "Dublin Good Morning/.Afternoon/Evening, EIXXX" poor RT ? Shouldn't Dublin's full callsign be used in an initial call, and shouldn't the niceties go at the end ?
Pardoned PPRuNer
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I Dont Belieeeeve it....
What a crap topic.
What really gets my goat is when a pilot calls in and says Good Morning and it is 4 O'clock in the afternoon (I can understand if you are on the SIA NewYork-Singapore )
I think we should ban all pleasantries across the board as well as the issuance of direct tracking or the requests for it.
Any pilot requesting direct should get an orbit (left or right you choose) or be banned from the next test like Shahid Afridi.
TT
What a crap topic.
What really gets my goat is when a pilot calls in and says Good Morning and it is 4 O'clock in the afternoon (I can understand if you are on the SIA NewYork-Singapore )
I think we should ban all pleasantries across the board as well as the issuance of direct tracking or the requests for it.
Any pilot requesting direct should get an orbit (left or right you choose) or be banned from the next test like Shahid Afridi.
TT
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Gargleblaster
For the sake of quick typing etc. I just typed Dublin. Real life scenario, depending on wich frequency I call, either North or South sector, I will address them as "Dublin Control", ( I have also heard others call Dublin South/North ). If they are busy they will ask me to contact Dublin Information for traffic info service. Apologies if that wasn't clear.....now is the pleasant good morning to be placed at the end of my initial call? ie Dublin Control, EIXXX...good morning
Poor RT? never had any complaints or criticisms from instructors, examiners or ATC...must be doing something right....and if niceties are non standard RT, does it matter where I put it???
Not being smart here by the way, if it isn't right I'll fix it
TT....bit grumpy today?
For the sake of quick typing etc. I just typed Dublin. Real life scenario, depending on wich frequency I call, either North or South sector, I will address them as "Dublin Control", ( I have also heard others call Dublin South/North ). If they are busy they will ask me to contact Dublin Information for traffic info service. Apologies if that wasn't clear.....now is the pleasant good morning to be placed at the end of my initial call? ie Dublin Control, EIXXX...good morning
Poor RT? never had any complaints or criticisms from instructors, examiners or ATC...must be doing something right....and if niceties are non standard RT, does it matter where I put it???
Not being smart here by the way, if it isn't right I'll fix it
TT....bit grumpy today?
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Not that it bothers me per se, however, with the RT getting more and more over crowded, any extranious verbage just isn't needed these days. We have pilots here in the US who are way to wordy in checking in as well as asking for things. For the most part we are all busy at the major hubs and just can't afford the extra air time. Pilots aren't the only ones with things to say and if we were to cut out the extra stuff, it would allow for a bit more time to give clearances and hear readbacks. Besides, I would much rather cut out the good day so that they would have time to use a call sign <sigh>...
regards
Scott
regards
Scott
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ETOPS
Dunno mate, I don't do Irish!!! I take it it means Hello?
RT in Gaeilge.........intersting
Wasn't born here so I was spared Irish in school..thank the Good Lord Jaizus! Begorra don't ye know
Dunno mate, I don't do Irish!!! I take it it means Hello?
RT in Gaeilge.........intersting
Wasn't born here so I was spared Irish in school..thank the Good Lord Jaizus! Begorra don't ye know
