Qualifications required to be an SATCO
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: 59°45'36N 10°27'59E
Qualifications required to be an SATCO
Quick question to all ATCO colleauges around the world......
Today the leadership in Avinor (Norways sole ATC provider) decided (in their wisdom) to hire Per Christian Haraldsen as new SATCO at Oslo ATCC.
Not breaking news as such, but the guy is, and has never been an air traffic controller! (
) A beancounter with background as HR director in some Norwegian non-aviation companies.
This is a first in Norway, and the NCAA has signalled that they might not validate him. (Totally new situation for them as well)
Anyone worked with a SATCO with no aviation or ATC background??????
The colleauges at Oslo have my condolances
(The situation is complicated with the fact that no ATCO's at Oslo today i willing to work as management, and that he's gonna have a hard time finding any deputys or even advisors)
Today the leadership in Avinor (Norways sole ATC provider) decided (in their wisdom) to hire Per Christian Haraldsen as new SATCO at Oslo ATCC.
Not breaking news as such, but the guy is, and has never been an air traffic controller! (
) A beancounter with background as HR director in some Norwegian non-aviation companies.This is a first in Norway, and the NCAA has signalled that they might not validate him. (Totally new situation for them as well)
Anyone worked with a SATCO with no aviation or ATC background??????
The colleauges at Oslo have my condolances
(The situation is complicated with the fact that no ATCO's at Oslo today i willing to work as management, and that he's gonna have a hard time finding any deputys or even advisors)
Last edited by M609; 11th November 2005 at 20:39.
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
I am afraid that this is a sign of the times where ATC is treated as a business rather than a public service. We in the UK are familiar with this situation whether it be public transport, health care, the military, etc. In NATS a lot of our managers are ex-ATCOs which although laudable does raise the question as to whether being a good radar controller means that you must be a good manager, in the case of NATS I would suggest that it does not. In this particular case in Norway I would suggest that the new manager certainly would have little respect from his colleagues, but that is another matter. You tell us that he is a "beancounter", there is a saying that "Accountants know the price of everything and the value of nothing" certainly in NATS that is definately true.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: UK
Is the post actually Senior Air Traffic Control Officer" (SATCO)or "Manager of Air Traffic Services" (MATS)?
The trouble with any air traffic unit is that it will always be a "cost" centre and never a "profit" centre for the airport company, and therefore the person running the unit has to be a very strong and persuasive person to get on - going funding, and that's where you need the business brain as well as the operational supremo.
To be SATCO you need to be a qualified air traffic controller, and usually, but not always, validated in all positions at the airport.
Manager of Air Traffic Services can, in theory, be someone with no air traffic experience, but to succeed and do the job successfully, they'd have to have the help of a very cooperative air traffic controller or SATCO, especially if the MATS was directly accountable to the CAA..
I'm not personally aquainted with a unit where the MATS is not a qualified or non operational ATCO, but unless a non atco MATS works very closely with a SATCO, it's a scenario doomed to failure.
The trouble with any air traffic unit is that it will always be a "cost" centre and never a "profit" centre for the airport company, and therefore the person running the unit has to be a very strong and persuasive person to get on - going funding, and that's where you need the business brain as well as the operational supremo.
To be SATCO you need to be a qualified air traffic controller, and usually, but not always, validated in all positions at the airport.
Manager of Air Traffic Services can, in theory, be someone with no air traffic experience, but to succeed and do the job successfully, they'd have to have the help of a very cooperative air traffic controller or SATCO, especially if the MATS was directly accountable to the CAA..
I'm not personally aquainted with a unit where the MATS is not a qualified or non operational ATCO, but unless a non atco MATS works very closely with a SATCO, it's a scenario doomed to failure.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: 59°45'36N 10°27'59E
Is the post actually Senior Air Traffic Control Officer" (SATCO)
But then again, that's the case for SATCOs at many larger ATC units in Norway.
And yes, It's doomed from the get go.
(At least since NATCA is pretty much at war with management nation wide at the moment.......)
Joined: May 2002
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From: UK
Agree with an earlier post. In NATS a great deal of current management, up to chief executive, used to be ex ATCO's. The head of HR used to be an ATCO at LATCC even though most still do not have any qualifications in HR, business skills or - management! Instead NATS spends a fortune on 'leadership' training. The last one was "Leadership Now" what's this one called?
HR still 'spot' future managers mainly in the ATCO grades. The new broom is slowly ridding NATS of the old pals act and replacing ATCO's with managers in key posts and about time too. Its pretty obvious that a number of NATS managers are not very good at running a commercial organisation and whilst being intelligent people are way out of their depth as they have no management or business experience. Friday radar controller, weekend shopping for a suit, Monday senior manager! Gods teeth!!!
Thats the key point, commercialisation is even taking hold in USA ATC. naturally staff do not like uncertainty an change, especially as ATCO's have been top of the pile until now.
HR still 'spot' future managers mainly in the ATCO grades. The new broom is slowly ridding NATS of the old pals act and replacing ATCO's with managers in key posts and about time too. Its pretty obvious that a number of NATS managers are not very good at running a commercial organisation and whilst being intelligent people are way out of their depth as they have no management or business experience. Friday radar controller, weekend shopping for a suit, Monday senior manager! Gods teeth!!!
Thats the key point, commercialisation is even taking hold in USA ATC. naturally staff do not like uncertainty an change, especially as ATCO's have been top of the pile until now.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 865
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From: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
I just wanted to clear up a point in my earlier post when I refered to ATCOs being in positions of power as being laudable. I meant that being in these positions they tend to spend most of their time fighting each other to get up the "greasy pole" this allied to their incompentence means that they tend to leave we "the workers" alone. Professional managers although rule A still applies can often walk and chew gum as well and that makes it worrying for our terms and conditions as a mere "operational resource".
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: UK
Hi folks
An interesting thread that is drifting a little from the question..what makes a good SATCO?...needless to say experiences in NATS come to the fore..but there is a real world outwith NATS..where a good SATCO and a motivated team are an asset to any commercial organisation....yes commercial...the real world
Another angle from the real world is the SATCO who gets no support from his managers ...where lack of staff, money and airport management with poor knowledge of the business destroy morale and efficiency....management that fails to recognise the wealth of ability and talent in their staff..
The SATCO is the link between the airport management and ATC operational teams.......this is the world of hire and fire...there is a non NATS airport that has had something like 6 SATCOs in seven years..alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear as there was also a high attrition of key staff..
Over the past couple of years i have been observing the effect of managerial decision making and its effect upon staff welbeing and morale .The next stage is to correlate this to the impact on safety...its opened my eyes
4info
An interesting thread that is drifting a little from the question..what makes a good SATCO?...needless to say experiences in NATS come to the fore..but there is a real world outwith NATS..where a good SATCO and a motivated team are an asset to any commercial organisation....yes commercial...the real world
Another angle from the real world is the SATCO who gets no support from his managers ...where lack of staff, money and airport management with poor knowledge of the business destroy morale and efficiency....management that fails to recognise the wealth of ability and talent in their staff..
The SATCO is the link between the airport management and ATC operational teams.......this is the world of hire and fire...there is a non NATS airport that has had something like 6 SATCOs in seven years..alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear as there was also a high attrition of key staff..
Over the past couple of years i have been observing the effect of managerial decision making and its effect upon staff welbeing and morale .The next stage is to correlate this to the impact on safety...its opened my eyes
4info
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: darn sarf
Qs for SATCO.
Ideally, a spine is a good start.
Huge pair of gonads.....females can use socks if required.
A big bag of swivelly fingers used for pointing towards aircrew.
For credibility purposes.. a couple of tickets would be nice.
Ideally, a spine is a good start.
Huge pair of gonads.....females can use socks if required.
A big bag of swivelly fingers used for pointing towards aircrew.
For credibility purposes.. a couple of tickets would be nice.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: UK
There are two questions here,what qualities make a good SATCO and what qualifications make a good SATCO
qualities
Good leadership skills
This means the ability to move forward taking the team with you.
Motivating and making staff proud of what they do and encouraging an environment where work is fun..to make people feel valued. It means defending your staff unless there is negligence..it means ensuring that they get it right next time
Firm but fair at all times..approachable..ensure a no blame culture..develop skills to keep ahead of the airport management Witch hunts
Tact
The ability to resist the urge to strangle your manager when they come up with nonsense and the ability to remain calm when dealing with staff whose idea of getting kicks is to wind up the SATCO
Diplomacy
Similar to tact but includes the strength to resist nonsense and move in the correct direction at the same time convincing your manager that it is an outstanding idea and that he thought of it.
Negotiating Skills
Diplomacy with teeth to support staff and handle change. This means learning to lie at times
Visibility
This means being around a lot..its the only way to know what really goes on..your chance to listen to staff concerns and encourage them to improve things.
Integrity
Open honest communication... tell it as it is...economic use of information to be only a last resort if part of a negotiating need
Handle staff matters dicretely at all times
Enjoy a good windup at times and watch how its reported on pprune
Business skills
Needed in buckets in the modern world, the SATCO has to be up to speed with business and HR issues.if not you will find that HR will rule.
gaining skills is hard work but important to manage your team....ATCOs and ATSAs are very intelligent beings but challenging to control
Delegation
The difficult art of letting someone do tasks for you when you know they may get you up to your neck further down the line..you delegate you take the responsibility for the outcome....persevere it pays huge dividends
Knowledge Base
Should have comprehensive ATC background..dont need to be an ATCO to manage ATCOs nor a cleaner to manage the cleaning staff but you need a detailed knowledge of everything around you..for the qualified ATCO taking up a post...the validation route is ok..up to validation standard
Dont think in the present environment that maintaining a validation is good practice..if you want an effective management team the highly skilled SATCO will have huge demands put upon him in other areas...it may come as a huge suprise to some that only a small proportion of the workload may be the current operation...delegation becomes important..the staff will be better at resolving an issue than the boss any time..its up to the boss to fight for the resources
If i were an airport manager i would ask why i have this expensive resource that seems to be used for tea breaks and letting staff go home..or filling in gaps in the roster...can do it cheaper by recruiting a bottom of the scale Atco and a cheap non Atc person to administer Atc..remember the management function will have gone to HR..think the human in the job title is often a bit enthusiastic....
There are a huge number of issues involving the SATCO Grade that should have been addressed years ago...recruitment for one thing is to say the least inconsistent across the country..you can get your brain beaten out by a vigorous assessment centre that does its best to determine the candidates abilities
or you can do what one establishment did and offer the post to an ATCO who had demonstrated commitment by resigning, demonstrated enthusiasm by not applying and who had little management training...i still have to lie down in a dark room whenever i think about it...
closing now before i say something i might regret
4info
qualities
Good leadership skills
This means the ability to move forward taking the team with you.
Motivating and making staff proud of what they do and encouraging an environment where work is fun..to make people feel valued. It means defending your staff unless there is negligence..it means ensuring that they get it right next time
Firm but fair at all times..approachable..ensure a no blame culture..develop skills to keep ahead of the airport management Witch hunts
Tact
The ability to resist the urge to strangle your manager when they come up with nonsense and the ability to remain calm when dealing with staff whose idea of getting kicks is to wind up the SATCO
Diplomacy
Similar to tact but includes the strength to resist nonsense and move in the correct direction at the same time convincing your manager that it is an outstanding idea and that he thought of it.
Negotiating Skills
Diplomacy with teeth to support staff and handle change. This means learning to lie at times
Visibility
This means being around a lot..its the only way to know what really goes on..your chance to listen to staff concerns and encourage them to improve things.
Integrity
Open honest communication... tell it as it is...economic use of information to be only a last resort if part of a negotiating need
Handle staff matters dicretely at all times
Enjoy a good windup at times and watch how its reported on pprune
Business skills
Needed in buckets in the modern world, the SATCO has to be up to speed with business and HR issues.if not you will find that HR will rule.
gaining skills is hard work but important to manage your team....ATCOs and ATSAs are very intelligent beings but challenging to control
Delegation
The difficult art of letting someone do tasks for you when you know they may get you up to your neck further down the line..you delegate you take the responsibility for the outcome....persevere it pays huge dividends
Knowledge Base
Should have comprehensive ATC background..dont need to be an ATCO to manage ATCOs nor a cleaner to manage the cleaning staff but you need a detailed knowledge of everything around you..for the qualified ATCO taking up a post...the validation route is ok..up to validation standard
Dont think in the present environment that maintaining a validation is good practice..if you want an effective management team the highly skilled SATCO will have huge demands put upon him in other areas...it may come as a huge suprise to some that only a small proportion of the workload may be the current operation...delegation becomes important..the staff will be better at resolving an issue than the boss any time..its up to the boss to fight for the resources
If i were an airport manager i would ask why i have this expensive resource that seems to be used for tea breaks and letting staff go home..or filling in gaps in the roster...can do it cheaper by recruiting a bottom of the scale Atco and a cheap non Atc person to administer Atc..remember the management function will have gone to HR..think the human in the job title is often a bit enthusiastic....
There are a huge number of issues involving the SATCO Grade that should have been addressed years ago...recruitment for one thing is to say the least inconsistent across the country..you can get your brain beaten out by a vigorous assessment centre that does its best to determine the candidates abilities
or you can do what one establishment did and offer the post to an ATCO who had demonstrated commitment by resigning, demonstrated enthusiasm by not applying and who had little management training...i still have to lie down in a dark room whenever i think about it...
closing now before i say something i might regret
4info
