Inverness Radar
My sympathy; we're also lumbered with Raytheon primary. I believe the first airfield to get it was Manston when they went civil; look at the trouble they've had; surely the lesson should have been learnt long ago.
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Inverness Radar
Just as Ayr ATC has asked how is the new radar operating at Inverness.
If it does go u/s out of interest will Lossiemouth offer a service or does it revert to Procedural Control?
If it does go u/s out of interest will Lossiemouth offer a service or does it revert to Procedural Control?
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From the ScACC end, my personal view is that the new radar service is working fine, it just needs to be open for longer !
Lossiemouth are no longer involved with the Inverness Approach task, so if the radar FEED to Inverness fails then it's back to procedural service.
Lossiemouth are no longer involved with the Inverness Approach task, so if the radar FEED to Inverness fails then it's back to procedural service.
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Inverness is working fine and just need thats bit to be done with it and now all we need is sids and stars and we will be jus like most airports if you know what im talking about.
niknak
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No Controlled Airspace = No SIDs and STARs.
Inverness faces precisely the same uphill battle that many other similar airports do against the numpties in DAP.
(Tell SID if you see him........).
Inverness faces precisely the same uphill battle that many other similar airports do against the numpties in DAP.
(Tell SID if you see him........).
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NIK-NAK, DAP are not numpties, examine who gets CAS and who seems to fight and fight but get nowhere!
The answer is, if you are not a part of NATS with all thier backroom clout and therefore in the MOD/ NATS clique you are going to have a long uphill strugle.
The answer is, if you are not a part of NATS with all thier backroom clout and therefore in the MOD/ NATS clique you are going to have a long uphill strugle.
niknak
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Pimpernel - you are spot on in respect of once an ATC unit becomes part of the "NATS Family", CAS is almost a cast iron guarantee.
Unfortunately, I disagree with your assesment of DAP, they are easily influenced by political clout and that makes them open to question but not answerable to common sense.
", CAS is almost a cast iron guarantee.Unfortunately, I disagree with your assesment of DAP, they are easily influenced by political clout and that makes them open to question but not answerable to common sense.
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NIKNAK, OK point taken about DAP, but ask yourself why? Is it because that it is supposed to be a joint civil / Mil organisation where the vast majority of civil representatives are in fact ex-Mil.
All NATS seem to do is turn up with a lot of complicated figures and charts and bamboozle them into submission. The old adage bull**** baffles brains, can be loosely used in this instance. Is it any wonder that the Mil has subcontracted out to NATS to demonstrate the requirement to increase CAS around Brize Norton. More graphs, stats and hey-presto job done. Moral of the story, if you want CAS then you have to get in bed with NATS, as UK airspace is pretty much sewn up by horse trading between them and the MOD.
All NATS seem to do is turn up with a lot of complicated figures and charts and bamboozle them into submission. The old adage bull**** baffles brains, can be loosely used in this instance. Is it any wonder that the Mil has subcontracted out to NATS to demonstrate the requirement to increase CAS around Brize Norton. More graphs, stats and hey-presto job done. Moral of the story, if you want CAS then you have to get in bed with NATS, as UK airspace is pretty much sewn up by horse trading between them and the MOD.
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Thales: Another first-of-type in the UK (with yet another to be announced shortly). Brave people, hope the tech support's good.
What, worse than Raytheon?
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niknak:
Are there any new NATS units that didn't already have CAS? Only one I can think of is Farnborough and it doesn't have CAS and I'm not aware it's applying for it.
NS
once an ATC unit becomes part of the "NATS Family", CAS is almost a cast iron guarantee
NS
niknak
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N.S.
Fair point, in my humble opinion I wonder if CAS would hamper the operation and airspace in the vicinity of Farnbourough, perhaps those more qualified than us could comment.
However, reversing your arguement, lets look at what happens when a NATS staffed ATC unit loses the NATS contract - in every single case, the surrounding CAS is immediately withdrawn. Just as when NATS take on an ATC unit, the surrounding CAS structure is immediately implemented or improved to accomodate said airport.
Fair point, in my humble opinion I wonder if CAS would hamper the operation and airspace in the vicinity of Farnbourough, perhaps those more qualified than us could comment.
However, reversing your arguement, lets look at what happens when a NATS staffed ATC unit loses the NATS contract - in every single case, the surrounding CAS is immediately withdrawn. Just as when NATS take on an ATC unit, the surrounding CAS structure is immediately implemented or improved to accomodate said airport.
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OK, you've got me there. Where are the ex-NATS units? I presume they must be Prestwick, Southend, Lydd and Manston since those are the only airports I know of which have lost CAS in the last 25 to 30 years. How many of those were NATS and are you saying that DAP attitudes towards NATS/non-NATS units hasn't changed in 20-30 years, during which time NATS has been privatised and the process for applying for CAS has changed significantly?
NS
NS