ATCOs to wear shirt and tie
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It wouldn't bother me if pilots turned up wearing jeans and a T shirt. It wouldn't change how they fly the aircraft.
I say let everyone dress how they like to work.
The world is just socialised into believing one thing is acceptable 'business wear' and anything else isn't. It's all about Perception
I say let everyone dress how they like to work.
The world is just socialised into believing one thing is acceptable 'business wear' and anything else isn't. It's all about Perception
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At the risk of being accused of taking this more seriously than I should I think we need to remember one of the reasons that aircraft crews wear a uniform. It's to give them authority and to be easily identifiable - things that are very important in the event of an emergency when the pax need to be told what to do.
Us poor controllers need to have authority at times but we do it with our voices rather than through appearace - hence appearance doesn't matter for doing our jobs.
I personnally favour the relaxed mode for the ops room, it's just more comfortable. In the past, however, I worked for one mob whose ops rooms were an embarrassment with tatty furniture, sharp edges to furniture etc. I chose to dress in older clothes there because they would often get damaged. Strangely, the management encouraged smarter dress because they sometimes brought round 'tours' of the local Rotary Club or Womens Institute and felt that shabby controllers did not reflect well on the outfit (if you'll excuse the pun). It never seemed to occur to the bosses that an ops room with holes in the panels because equipment had packed up - sometimes with wires hanging out of the holes - and chairs that were so worn that the stuffing was coming out had more effect on the public perception than controllers in jeans and open-necked shirts.
Us poor controllers need to have authority at times but we do it with our voices rather than through appearace - hence appearance doesn't matter for doing our jobs.
I personnally favour the relaxed mode for the ops room, it's just more comfortable. In the past, however, I worked for one mob whose ops rooms were an embarrassment with tatty furniture, sharp edges to furniture etc. I chose to dress in older clothes there because they would often get damaged. Strangely, the management encouraged smarter dress because they sometimes brought round 'tours' of the local Rotary Club or Womens Institute and felt that shabby controllers did not reflect well on the outfit (if you'll excuse the pun). It never seemed to occur to the bosses that an ops room with holes in the panels because equipment had packed up - sometimes with wires hanging out of the holes - and chairs that were so worn that the stuffing was coming out had more effect on the public perception than controllers in jeans and open-necked shirts.
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Vercingetorix....
Thank you and yes...having worn a real uniform for many years it is far from encouraging to see my uniform colours being flown by all those who use the same tailor....which is most cheap commercial establishments in the city as the shirts come it at 2 quid and the trow 3!
"Tickets please....."
"Tickets please....."
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I was pleasantly surprised to drop some late paperwork off to the crew of a B74F (in another life), and witness them resplendent in Jeans and Polo Shirts for their long-haul leg.
Guess what - the plane flew just the same!
The uniform is an image thing - makes the public feel good. Thats about it really.
Hey - it was a total rip off of a Ships Crew uniform in the first place anyway (by Juan Trippe)
If I am doing a double shift (Morning / Night) (and then probably on overtime) the safest uniform for you and your aircraft is the one that I feel comfortable in.
Guess what - the plane flew just the same!
The uniform is an image thing - makes the public feel good. Thats about it really.
Hey - it was a total rip off of a Ships Crew uniform in the first place anyway (by Juan Trippe)
If I am doing a double shift (Morning / Night) (and then probably on overtime) the safest uniform for you and your aircraft is the one that I feel comfortable in.
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No, but we wonder what the controllers look like - passes a few minutes on a long night flight
When some sultry French bird whispers into your 'edset - cleared direct 'burryedd' it gets you all a tiss. Then 'tother chap reminds you that she is probably into her 3rd pack of Gitanes, has underarm hair and a moustache
When some sultry French bird whispers into your 'edset - cleared direct 'burryedd' it gets you all a tiss. Then 'tother chap reminds you that she is probably into her 3rd pack of Gitanes, has underarm hair and a moustache
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Undressed code...
Well, I guess I'm lucky of living where and when I do. That is now and in center europe -I recon it'll be nicer in the south though-. I was recently in India and, if they were as narrow-minded as an ant in here, today I wouldn't have been able to step in the ops room. I'm wearing one of these pyjamas -the top part- with jeans and the cheapest sandals they can produce in Rajastan. Tie?....where's the wedding?
PS: I hope that by describing how I'm dressed at the minute I haven't turned this discussion into an erotic line -or the usual: what are you wearing? sort of line of conversation-.
PS: I hope that by describing how I'm dressed at the minute I haven't turned this discussion into an erotic line -or the usual: what are you wearing? sort of line of conversation-.
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I'm convinced. No more business suit for me! Err, until my validation board that is. Don't want to get the chop cos SRG don't like my T-shirt!
After that I might even show off my tattoo!
After that I might even show off my tattoo!
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Doesn't what you wear reflect your inner self and attitude?
Dress like a 1970s hippy and be thought one - dress like a hobo, etc., etc.
Agreed, it might not affect your professional performance but if you really want to be thought as "professional" look it and act it!
This doesn't necessarily mean wearing a tie and jacket - you can look equally smart in an ironed open-neck shirt and pressed chinos, or a decent pair of pressed shorts.
Emphasis on IRONED and PRESSED!
Why insist on wearing your gardening/workout/car-cleaning gear to work?
Personally, I think it's just an excuse for (a) not bothering and (b) being concerned about looking too much like the Management or the Establishment. But don't be stupid - whenever did you see them in the Ops Room wearing a headset??
As for the tale of a controller who 'lost' aircraft returns because they were lurking under his tie - yeh, right: and look, there's a pig established on the ILS for 27L...
Dress like a 1970s hippy and be thought one - dress like a hobo, etc., etc.
Agreed, it might not affect your professional performance but if you really want to be thought as "professional" look it and act it!
This doesn't necessarily mean wearing a tie and jacket - you can look equally smart in an ironed open-neck shirt and pressed chinos, or a decent pair of pressed shorts.
Emphasis on IRONED and PRESSED!
Why insist on wearing your gardening/workout/car-cleaning gear to work?
Personally, I think it's just an excuse for (a) not bothering and (b) being concerned about looking too much like the Management or the Establishment. But don't be stupid - whenever did you see them in the Ops Room wearing a headset??
As for the tale of a controller who 'lost' aircraft returns because they were lurking under his tie - yeh, right: and look, there's a pig established on the ILS for 27L...
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Give me an ATCO that can 'do the business' safely and expeditiously, and whilst sticking to the rules; and who's a good team player.
If that ATCO is additionally, a snazzy dresser that's fine by me.
But a snazzy dresser who's a safety and expedition liability: no thanks!
I'll stick with the ATCO that's dressed in jeans...
If that ATCO is additionally, a snazzy dresser that's fine by me.
But a snazzy dresser who's a safety and expedition liability: no thanks!
I'll stick with the ATCO that's dressed in jeans...
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I'm with a few of the more conservative posters. I'm all for a reasonable amount of comfort in attire, but the overly casual dress in the control room has gotten over the line. Ratty T-shirts advertising bars, flip-flops, wrinkled jogging shorts, etc. If your fellow controllers think you look un-professional and more like a homeless vagabond, I can assure you your staff and supervisors do too, even if they don't (can't) ban it. Have some self respect, because nobody else will respect you until you do...
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Respect for myself: plenty, thank you.
ebenezer:
I'd rather choose (c) I dress as I want to, not as you tell me.
That's having a lot of self respect and giving the others a hint on what will happen if they don't respect me. A bit of a laugh from your side won't make me change my mind. I'd be pretty weak -mentally- if I did. And who is worse: someone who doesn't care on fashion statements or someone who has prejudices on how ppl dresses? I do iron my T-shirts and jeans too. And they don't advert any bar...the one I wear today reads "scuba divers do it deeper". Fair enough I ain't one but they deserve some ad -it's difficult to get chicks underwater, me recons-.
Btw, I do think that "dressing just like the others do" is the stupid thing to do -except when there are good reasons for it like in the army, navy, etc...-. And if you try to argue that I'm doing that by wearing jeans...I don't find'em that comfy but they're better -in that aspect- than suits and you don't get many choices unfortunately. In the east they don't give a toss about ads on tv and what is fashionable or not and it shows -try the pyjamas, now that's comfy-. But where to buy'em here? no chance.
Gone for brunch now,
A.
I'd rather choose (c) I dress as I want to, not as you tell me.
That's having a lot of self respect and giving the others a hint on what will happen if they don't respect me. A bit of a laugh from your side won't make me change my mind. I'd be pretty weak -mentally- if I did. And who is worse: someone who doesn't care on fashion statements or someone who has prejudices on how ppl dresses? I do iron my T-shirts and jeans too. And they don't advert any bar...the one I wear today reads "scuba divers do it deeper". Fair enough I ain't one but they deserve some ad -it's difficult to get chicks underwater, me recons-.
Btw, I do think that "dressing just like the others do" is the stupid thing to do -except when there are good reasons for it like in the army, navy, etc...-. And if you try to argue that I'm doing that by wearing jeans...I don't find'em that comfy but they're better -in that aspect- than suits and you don't get many choices unfortunately. In the east they don't give a toss about ads on tv and what is fashionable or not and it shows -try the pyjamas, now that's comfy-. But where to buy'em here? no chance.
Gone for brunch now,
A.
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Ah, yes. The incredibly banal biennial debate on what ATCOs should wear to work. One of my personal favourites.
For those of you that missed it, the devastatingly exciting 2003 version is here: Uniforms for NATS STAFF ??
My opinion: It's handy to have a distinction (at NATS in any case), between those people whose hard work has returned the company to profit, and those who are a hindrance to all things air traffic. The former group are called ATCOs, and wear what they choose. T-shirt and jeans, vest and shorts, speedos (TM). I couldn't really care less. Although speedos (TM) might be going a bit far. The latter group are called management, and helpfully identify themselves by wearing shirt and tie at all times.
Even handier still, there is a natural watershed between the two groups. It's called: THE LOCAL AREA SUPERVISOR BOARD. Prior to applying for one of these, an ATCO will generally wear what he wants. However, following selection to be a LAS, this person will magically be transformed into a management automaton, with compulsory shirt and tie. Sadly, this person will not be quite as useful as before - this being an unfortunate effect of promotion above the ATCO 2 level. Observe the effect this year for yourselves!
You'd have to be jaw-droppingly narrow-minded to prejudge a person's professionalism based on what they wear to work. Professionalism in our workplace is ABSOLUTELY NOT a function of smart dress. If anything, it's an inverse relationship, with the scruffiest ATCOs being some of the best (not that I would put myself in that category). Management might not like it, but with the current staffing situation.....
ebenezer - HUMBUG! Gotta love the pressed chinos suggestion though. Anyone for 80's throwback day?
LTP
For those of you that missed it, the devastatingly exciting 2003 version is here: Uniforms for NATS STAFF ??
My opinion: It's handy to have a distinction (at NATS in any case), between those people whose hard work has returned the company to profit, and those who are a hindrance to all things air traffic. The former group are called ATCOs, and wear what they choose. T-shirt and jeans, vest and shorts, speedos (TM). I couldn't really care less. Although speedos (TM) might be going a bit far. The latter group are called management, and helpfully identify themselves by wearing shirt and tie at all times.
Even handier still, there is a natural watershed between the two groups. It's called: THE LOCAL AREA SUPERVISOR BOARD. Prior to applying for one of these, an ATCO will generally wear what he wants. However, following selection to be a LAS, this person will magically be transformed into a management automaton, with compulsory shirt and tie. Sadly, this person will not be quite as useful as before - this being an unfortunate effect of promotion above the ATCO 2 level. Observe the effect this year for yourselves!
You'd have to be jaw-droppingly narrow-minded to prejudge a person's professionalism based on what they wear to work. Professionalism in our workplace is ABSOLUTELY NOT a function of smart dress. If anything, it's an inverse relationship, with the scruffiest ATCOs being some of the best (not that I would put myself in that category). Management might not like it, but with the current staffing situation.....
ebenezer - HUMBUG! Gotta love the pressed chinos suggestion though. Anyone for 80's throwback day?
LTP
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I still have a fairly open mind on dress codes... but to say
may be accurate, but as far as "impression" of one's professionalism goes, it's sadly true....
I would argue that "smart" is probably more important than "Shirt & tie"... but in many work environments people atribute professional ability with dress code... what would be your reaction if you saw a Solicitor (at work) in calf length cut-off shorts and sandals... or your bank manager in a Metallica T Shirt and torn demins? (some will undoubtedly say "why not"... there is no "Why not" about it, its just the expectation we seem to have?
Professionalism in our workplace is ABSOLUTELY NOT a function of smart dress
I would argue that "smart" is probably more important than "Shirt & tie"... but in many work environments people atribute professional ability with dress code... what would be your reaction if you saw a Solicitor (at work) in calf length cut-off shorts and sandals... or your bank manager in a Metallica T Shirt and torn demins? (some will undoubtedly say "why not"... there is no "Why not" about it, its just the expectation we seem to have?
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LostThePicture
Yup, judge me on what I do and not what I look like; besides, if I buy the clothes then I'll make the choice. Good point about the Supervisor promotion....I can't let you see the list of successful applicants yet, it will be held under lock and key until after the selection workshop or test centre or whateverthisyearsbuzzwordisfor promotion board has taken place.....something to do with due [boring] process or something, but the result will surprise you.
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ebenezer - HUMBUG! Gotta love the pressed chinos suggestion though. Anyone for 80's throwback day?
BTW any reason for using americanisms in your postings ("gotta") - unless you're from the far side of the Pond of course.
Like chinos, such affectations are definitely dated didn't you know...?
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Flying Pigs
Well there almost was one at Heathrow many years ago.
Pink Floyd had one pink plastic pig tied up at Battersea Power station for a publicity shot for an album.
It broke loose and drifted around for some time over s/e England. If the wind had been the other way an approach to Heathrow was well on the cards.
http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/ppj77.html
Pink Floyd had one pink plastic pig tied up at Battersea Power station for a publicity shot for an album.
It broke loose and drifted around for some time over s/e England. If the wind had been the other way an approach to Heathrow was well on the cards.
http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/ppj77.html
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Flying pigs?
I think I lost the pic now....was it dressed with a tie or with jeans? Just to picture him on a side of the debate -not just flying over the golden gate-....anyway, if it's flying chances are it's a pilot, not an atco -no, I don't think all aircrew are pink and smelly-.
Pierre arg: but that's the thing, when you work at a bank there are already established dress codes. Unlike in an ops room/tower.
I like the speedos idea...do they sell them in thong version?
Pierre arg: but that's the thing, when you work at a bank there are already established dress codes. Unlike in an ops room/tower.
I like the speedos idea...do they sell them in thong version?
Buttonpusher
I remember flying out over the UK to the Oceanic boundary, a couple of years ago, and a "Reach" (US military) flight was on our frequency an asked the controller if he had a Uniform, ( UHF frequency), the controller said no we don't wear uniforms ...what are you wearing? ... a flight suit , came the reply, then I had to butt in and say, well at least you don't have to dress like lion tamers like us....