NATS to provide at Lulsgate
niknak
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Our employers have been looking at the possibility of contracting out ATC for several years now, and whilst they haven't dismissed the idea once and for all, they are very much of the mind that they would like to keep it "in - house";
They see advantages and disadvantages of contracting out as follows;
Disadvantages:
1 - NATS would charge significantly more for provision of the service than it currently costs.
2 - NATS would also want to take on the Tel's engineers as part of the contract, thereby increasing overall costs.
3 - Ultimately, NATS would want to remote the approach control function, leaving just tower atcos at the airport, and SSR and primary cover from the local NATS radar head is sufficiant for provision of a fully remoted service, and therefore there's no requirement for our own radar head and equipment at the airport. But, if for any reason, after 5 years the airport want to get rid of NATS, they have to remploy a substantial number of approach and tower rated atco's and reinstate all the equipment at significant cost. NATS would have us by the balls.
Advantages:
1 - We will have up to 5 retirements in the next 4 years, we don't train our own atco's, additionally, anyone can fall over at a medical. Only NATS can guarantee to make cover immediately available to cover at short notice.
2 - NATS can make new technology and equipment available as part of new developments and research, ultimately there would be a cost to the airport company, but this would be significantly less than if it was bought off the shelf, and staff would be trained on the equipment for more or less "nil cost".
3 - NATS have the in - house infrastructure and experience to manage and provide future installation and other projects which the airport would otherwise have to farm out to several different suppliers with the inherent delays and problems this may incur.
No doubt Serco would say that they could also provide all the advantages, but they wouldn't commit themselves in writing, NATS did.
When it comes down to it, money talks, and employing a contractor is always going to be more expensive than doing it yourself.
The only reason that NATS will not lose any of their current larger BAA contracts is because the airports would incur significant cost in employing their own ATC staff.
However, the service cost at Luton, Southampton, Farnborough and also when Manchester ATCC moves to McNerk, will be constantly under the sharp eye of the bean counters.
Yes, NATS definately are under instruction to aggressively market themselves as an ATC provider, but they are not going to do this for anyone if they won't make a profit, and Bristol won't employ them unless they see it to be a significant financial benefit to the airport company.
They see advantages and disadvantages of contracting out as follows;
Disadvantages:
1 - NATS would charge significantly more for provision of the service than it currently costs.
2 - NATS would also want to take on the Tel's engineers as part of the contract, thereby increasing overall costs.
3 - Ultimately, NATS would want to remote the approach control function, leaving just tower atcos at the airport, and SSR and primary cover from the local NATS radar head is sufficiant for provision of a fully remoted service, and therefore there's no requirement for our own radar head and equipment at the airport. But, if for any reason, after 5 years the airport want to get rid of NATS, they have to remploy a substantial number of approach and tower rated atco's and reinstate all the equipment at significant cost. NATS would have us by the balls.
Advantages:
1 - We will have up to 5 retirements in the next 4 years, we don't train our own atco's, additionally, anyone can fall over at a medical. Only NATS can guarantee to make cover immediately available to cover at short notice.
2 - NATS can make new technology and equipment available as part of new developments and research, ultimately there would be a cost to the airport company, but this would be significantly less than if it was bought off the shelf, and staff would be trained on the equipment for more or less "nil cost".
3 - NATS have the in - house infrastructure and experience to manage and provide future installation and other projects which the airport would otherwise have to farm out to several different suppliers with the inherent delays and problems this may incur.
No doubt Serco would say that they could also provide all the advantages, but they wouldn't commit themselves in writing, NATS did.
When it comes down to it, money talks, and employing a contractor is always going to be more expensive than doing it yourself.
The only reason that NATS will not lose any of their current larger BAA contracts is because the airports would incur significant cost in employing their own ATC staff.
However, the service cost at Luton, Southampton, Farnborough and also when Manchester ATCC moves to McNerk, will be constantly under the sharp eye of the bean counters.
Yes, NATS definately are under instruction to aggressively market themselves as an ATC provider, but they are not going to do this for anyone if they won't make a profit, and Bristol won't employ them unless they see it to be a significant financial benefit to the airport company.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Cardiff, Bristol, Filton and Exeter (Flowers 5th airfield believe it or not) all have autonomous primary radar heads, with secondary (for FF,GD & TG) piped in from Clee Hill (TE's comes from Burrington).
As far as people might not be up for relocation. All NATS Members that shoot through the forums will more than likely be aware that anything that is moved to Swanwick also attracts a band 5 pay, rather than a lower band. Who knows what Bristol would be banded. Based on Tower movements i'm guessing three ( Thats assuming NATS WIN the contract ). Thats a fairly hefty increase. Probably even more for any bristol guys and girls that moved to NATS and then subsequently to Swanwick.
I cant see the move to the south coast happening in the short term ( 5 or 6 years ) but longer than that, surely NATS would be foolish not too? Especially with the new course streaming?
Only ideas - what u recon??
TIO
P.S. - Cardiff TRACON???? shocking
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Why not Gonzo? Because once Bristol goes with NATS, all ATCO recruitement will be done internally. No hope for outsiders like me
Can't see some of (if not most of) the Bristol controllers being too happy about moving to Cardiff or indeed Swanwick if NATS co-locate the Radar Room.
A bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas isn't it.
Take the Queen's sovereign and then choose between better pay but relocation to a radar room somewhere else or stay where you are, lose a skill by becoming Tower only and get payed less.
Hmm
Choices choices
Can't see some of (if not most of) the Bristol controllers being too happy about moving to Cardiff or indeed Swanwick if NATS co-locate the Radar Room.
A bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas isn't it.
Take the Queen's sovereign and then choose between better pay but relocation to a radar room somewhere else or stay where you are, lose a skill by becoming Tower only and get payed less.
Hmm
Choices choices
aceatco, retired
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Any truth in the rumour that the Spanish firm AENA are bidding for / buying Bristol and Cardiff airports?
Forewarned is Forearmed
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This rumour is news to me, Vintage ATCO, but I did hear a Rumour that BRS's owners were taking a look at CWL some months ago, which raised a few interesting questions
aceatco, retired
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Ranger 1
This may help
http://www.abertis.com/ing/index.htm
and this
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=153323
Do keep up!
This may help
http://www.abertis.com/ing/index.htm
and this
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=153323
Do keep up!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
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Bristol Beware!
Careful buddies...NATS will want to peg your salaries and keep you under-the-heel whilst promising wonderful things. They will post in several layers of lap-dog managers and you'll wonder what hit you.
Agree to NOTHING without good union representation from Day One. Transitional union arrangements during transfer of Employer leave you at your weakest in negotiating.....whereas in reality your "agreement" is the strongest hand.
Remember that you are about to be hit by a slick glossy-brochure package from an organisation eager to profit from all the hard work of the last few years and Bristol's phenomenal expansion....why not ask them why you have no Regulated Airspace even though you have over 50,000 ATM's a year....Oh Sorry....they won't know?
Agree to NOTHING without good union representation from Day One. Transitional union arrangements during transfer of Employer leave you at your weakest in negotiating.....whereas in reality your "agreement" is the strongest hand.
Remember that you are about to be hit by a slick glossy-brochure package from an organisation eager to profit from all the hard work of the last few years and Bristol's phenomenal expansion....why not ask them why you have no Regulated Airspace even though you have over 50,000 ATM's a year....Oh Sorry....they won't know?
StandupfortheUlstermen
Join Date: Dec 2001
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"Remember that you are about to be hit by a slick glossy brochure package from an organisation eager to profit from all the hard work of the last few years....."
..........or maybe they've just come to their senses and realised we're just a fab bunch of guys who will be able to show the rest of the airports group a trick or two!
Roll on Friday 16:00, then we'll see the whites of their eyes!
Oh to be back in the asylum!
..........or maybe they've just come to their senses and realised we're just a fab bunch of guys who will be able to show the rest of the airports group a trick or two!
Roll on Friday 16:00, then we'll see the whites of their eyes!
Oh to be back in the asylum!
StandupfortheUlstermen
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So it has, my goodness look at the time. Lots was said and I'm convinced by every bit of it.
Oh and a nice slick glossy brochure each as well, my aren't we the lucky ones. Didn't bring us any frisbees though.
Oh and a nice slick glossy brochure each as well, my aren't we the lucky ones. Didn't bring us any frisbees though.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
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Merry Christmas?
An early Christmas present for 500 lads and lasses at Southampton; the current NATS boss of barely six months came to us from ALSTOM as you know, together with several of his henchmen to fill non-advertised posts. In their wake is a trail of destruction of company-wide proportion.
The new NATS HQ at Whitely was strategically placed between Swanwick and Southampton.....did I say strategically or co-incidentally?....can't remember......anyway with hindsight it was not necessary because the "500" refers to the number of brother workers thrown on the scrapheap a week before Christmas with the closure of the ALSTOM Rail engineering base at Eastleigh.
This week it is "aviation" and your jobs are safe because ATCO's are in short supply.......but think ahead brothers and sisters......the British Government does not have the same bale-out policy as our French cousins, who rescued ALSTOM to the tune of several £billion.
Down at Swanwick we just work and work, and absolutely nothing else....every common-sense recommendation for liaison visits and Fam flights is completely ignored.....we are just blobs on a staff graph on some-one's wall.
Welcome to NATS West Country buddies.
The new NATS HQ at Whitely was strategically placed between Swanwick and Southampton.....did I say strategically or co-incidentally?....can't remember......anyway with hindsight it was not necessary because the "500" refers to the number of brother workers thrown on the scrapheap a week before Christmas with the closure of the ALSTOM Rail engineering base at Eastleigh.
This week it is "aviation" and your jobs are safe because ATCO's are in short supply.......but think ahead brothers and sisters......the British Government does not have the same bale-out policy as our French cousins, who rescued ALSTOM to the tune of several £billion.
Down at Swanwick we just work and work, and absolutely nothing else....every common-sense recommendation for liaison visits and Fam flights is completely ignored.....we are just blobs on a staff graph on some-one's wall.
Welcome to NATS West Country buddies.