NATS culture
Join Date: Oct 2004
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NATS culture
From an engineering perspective, I cannot recall in the last 30 years, when morale has been lower. Clapped out gear which should have been retired 10+ years ago is still in operational service,and guess who gets it in the neck if the service is compromised? Mission statements, destinations,visions, new horizons, ace agents etc.etc..... BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, DIDN'T LIKE IT THEN, DON'T LIKE IT NOW. Just want to do the job without some "mechant banker" in a "tin flute" (hint cockney rhyming slang) screwing me about.
Join Date: May 2002
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Agreed. Its all more of the same 'New Horizons' bullcrap. I do believe that morale has been taken to a new depth by this management exercise. An intelligent, experienced workforce sent paper aircraft and fake boarding cards? If I had not worked for NATS for so long and not seen this all before I would be insulted. Nah - I AM insulted.
It makes it easy to pick out the the ones for the 'bye bye' letter though. All the idiots that get behind this!!!
Oy. Management. WITHDRAW THIS RUBBISH.
It makes it easy to pick out the the ones for the 'bye bye' letter though. All the idiots that get behind this!!!
Oy. Management. WITHDRAW THIS RUBBISH.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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OK - all this negative stuff is getting boring. If you think that management's cr*p (I think that's the drift) why don't YOU tell us what YOU would do to sort out the mess you reckon that NATS is in?
If fact, why don't you become a manager and do it right? I don't want to hear the "I'd rather be on the shop floor doing a good job shifting planes" argument, I want to see what YOU would do that's better.
If you can't answer that, maybe it's time to give it a rest.
By the way, I don't have any answers either, but I do recognise that we need to change.
To use the tired old saying "You're either grit in the gears or your the grease". I'm seeing a LOT of grit.
ST
If fact, why don't you become a manager and do it right? I don't want to hear the "I'd rather be on the shop floor doing a good job shifting planes" argument, I want to see what YOU would do that's better.
If you can't answer that, maybe it's time to give it a rest.
By the way, I don't have any answers either, but I do recognise that we need to change.
To use the tired old saying "You're either grit in the gears or your the grease". I'm seeing a LOT of grit.
ST
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Soft Top,
We are saying stop giving us this bulls**t and wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on silly gimmicks. I believe New Horizons cost somewhere in the region of two million pounds .
We don't need them , we don't want them , they are a complete and utter waste of money which could be being spent far better where it is needed on staffing and equipment.
Why on earth would we want to become managers, we want to keep our headsets on and do the job we were trained to do.
All we want is for the Senior management to stop looking at gimmicks which may work well in other environments, but it shows full well they haven't looked at the average ATCO and what we do if they think we would be in the slightest bit impressed by this latest fiasco.
Paper planes and boarding passes. oh for goodness sakes, when what i need is a new headset.
We are saying stop giving us this bulls**t and wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on silly gimmicks. I believe New Horizons cost somewhere in the region of two million pounds .
We don't need them , we don't want them , they are a complete and utter waste of money which could be being spent far better where it is needed on staffing and equipment.
Why on earth would we want to become managers, we want to keep our headsets on and do the job we were trained to do.
All we want is for the Senior management to stop looking at gimmicks which may work well in other environments, but it shows full well they haven't looked at the average ATCO and what we do if they think we would be in the slightest bit impressed by this latest fiasco.
Paper planes and boarding passes. oh for goodness sakes, when what i need is a new headset.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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What would I like to see?
More ATCOs and engineers on the shop floor; sectors split more often. It's quality of the service provided we should be looking at, not how many aircraft an individual can shift in a session.
An ATCO may be able to 'cope' with a certain amount of traffic, but whilst merely 'coping', are the customers; the Airlines etc, getting the best service? I very much doubt it. So; more bums on seats, and I mean real seats, not fictitious paper seats on paper aeroplanes. It is a sad day when BA pilots comment on the RT that 'this sector should be split'. Even sadder when they are correct but we cannot do it.
I heard of someone wishing to split a position just 3 days ago, because a management planning decision on another sector meant that the first position was becoming unworkable... the answer - 'no split' not enough staff. The only solution - MDIs. The result - customers P***ed off!
Less money spent on gimmicks would mean more money to bring in much needed AAVAs to bring the manpower up to a minimum acceptable level!
More ATCOs and engineers on the shop floor; sectors split more often. It's quality of the service provided we should be looking at, not how many aircraft an individual can shift in a session.
An ATCO may be able to 'cope' with a certain amount of traffic, but whilst merely 'coping', are the customers; the Airlines etc, getting the best service? I very much doubt it. So; more bums on seats, and I mean real seats, not fictitious paper seats on paper aeroplanes. It is a sad day when BA pilots comment on the RT that 'this sector should be split'. Even sadder when they are correct but we cannot do it.
I heard of someone wishing to split a position just 3 days ago, because a management planning decision on another sector meant that the first position was becoming unworkable... the answer - 'no split' not enough staff. The only solution - MDIs. The result - customers P***ed off!
Less money spent on gimmicks would mean more money to bring in much needed AAVAs to bring the manpower up to a minimum acceptable level!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Out of interest ukatco, when the BA pilot asked for the sector to be split were you "allowed" to give the real reason why it wasnt?
I did the other day and got a b@llocking for saying that we didnt have enough staff to split GMC at the time. Pilot files ASR, tapes pulled, me getting another telling off.
Wasn't given any advice on what to say the next time the question is asked!
I did the other day and got a b@llocking for saying that we didnt have enough staff to split GMC at the time. Pilot files ASR, tapes pulled, me getting another telling off.
Wasn't given any advice on what to say the next time the question is asked!
Join Date: Dec 1999
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GT3,
I hope you'd say exactly the same thing as last time, as I would!
Or maybe next time a similar thing happens it will be: "The assistant that handles that is out on the balcony doing a weather report, because NATS have taken over the contract to supply met info, but haven't employed any extra staff to cope with the much increased workload."
I hope you'd say exactly the same thing as last time, as I would!
Or maybe next time a similar thing happens it will be: "The assistant that handles that is out on the balcony doing a weather report, because NATS have taken over the contract to supply met info, but haven't employed any extra staff to cope with the much increased workload."
Join Date: May 2002
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1. Reduction of needless process and the people that create it, especially in engineering.
2. Establish the options for ALL new markets, not just the ones that we think we should be in.
3. Aggressively seek every ATC and ATC engineering contract worldwide and if we don't have the staff then hire them.
4. Do you add value? No? Bye!
5. Listen to ATC staff a LOT more.
6. Listen to out airline customers even more than that.
7. Target the UK NATS workforce for the needs identified above.
8. Close what used to be called the EU at Hurn.
9. Buy in top flight project managers to teach ours!
That should take around five years. No paper planes, fewer accountants.
2. Establish the options for ALL new markets, not just the ones that we think we should be in.
3. Aggressively seek every ATC and ATC engineering contract worldwide and if we don't have the staff then hire them.
4. Do you add value? No? Bye!
5. Listen to ATC staff a LOT more.
6. Listen to out airline customers even more than that.
7. Target the UK NATS workforce for the needs identified above.
8. Close what used to be called the EU at Hurn.
9. Buy in top flight project managers to teach ours!
That should take around five years. No paper planes, fewer accountants.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong (again!). I understood that "The Management"at LHR are looking to reduce ATSA numbers whilst the existing personnel have to be omnipotent ie: Met observing and tower duties which means being in two places at the same time.
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DC10,
It's ok really, I had a chat to someone yesterday and apparently the ATSAs will all be trained to 'manage their time more effectively' (sic).
So that's alright then. Nothing to worry about.
It's ok really, I had a chat to someone yesterday and apparently the ATSAs will all be trained to 'manage their time more effectively' (sic).
So that's alright then. Nothing to worry about.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I also believe that natural wastage rather than redundancy will reduce atsa numbers at LHR over the next few years.
Makes you wonder what might happen if we are still using paper in the new tower............
Makes you wonder what might happen if we are still using paper in the new tower............
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Where is Soft top???
After his rant about people coming up with ideas or shutting up, some colleagues have done just that and as usual..... management hide in the sand!!! Typically proving our point.
Ties inhibit rational, sensible thinking - or in some cases provide an excuse for those who have not the ability to do so
After his rant about people coming up with ideas or shutting up, some colleagues have done just that and as usual..... management hide in the sand!!! Typically proving our point.
Ties inhibit rational, sensible thinking - or in some cases provide an excuse for those who have not the ability to do so
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Management?
I've come over all peculiar ...
And there was me thinking I was being a bit of a devil's advocate. I'm pleased to see that there are constructive comments out there, but they still don't provide the "how?". That's the trick. Come up with a means to achieve all the good stuff (and it is all good stuff) and you could be onto a winner. Trouble is, with so much hot air and belly-aching out there as well, the constructive ideas disappear into the swamp.
Just out of interest, how many of you have taken part in any sort of "management" initiative or workgroup or local improvement project? Of those who have, how many only did it because they'd get paid in hard cash for the time (i.e. AAVAs, overtime etc.)? How many WILLINGLY volunteer their own time to help?
I've been with NATS man and boy (1972 til now) and I've probably seen more initiatives and reviews than most. I have taken part in a few of them (mostly when I was young, keen and thought I could change the world) and I found that the process was always a bit hurried and seemed, at the time, to be very relevant. That was generally followed by feelings of "why did I waste my time", but looking back on it all I CAN see the changes in which I played a part and most of them were successful in terms of improving performance both operational and in general efficiency terms.
If you want to change the direction of the bus, it's important that you don't stand outside and, worse still right in front of it, waving your arms about and shouting a lot, because you'll get left behind or run over. It's always best being on the bus so you can argue with the driver and conductor, maybe even lead the rest of the passengers in a sing-song (sorry, getting too enthusiastic there). That way you have the chance to change the course, slowing it down or stopping it. I'd rather be inside.
I didn't use the aircraft example, because their all hijack proof these days. Damn - what a thought!
ST
I've come over all peculiar ...
And there was me thinking I was being a bit of a devil's advocate. I'm pleased to see that there are constructive comments out there, but they still don't provide the "how?". That's the trick. Come up with a means to achieve all the good stuff (and it is all good stuff) and you could be onto a winner. Trouble is, with so much hot air and belly-aching out there as well, the constructive ideas disappear into the swamp.
Just out of interest, how many of you have taken part in any sort of "management" initiative or workgroup or local improvement project? Of those who have, how many only did it because they'd get paid in hard cash for the time (i.e. AAVAs, overtime etc.)? How many WILLINGLY volunteer their own time to help?
I've been with NATS man and boy (1972 til now) and I've probably seen more initiatives and reviews than most. I have taken part in a few of them (mostly when I was young, keen and thought I could change the world) and I found that the process was always a bit hurried and seemed, at the time, to be very relevant. That was generally followed by feelings of "why did I waste my time", but looking back on it all I CAN see the changes in which I played a part and most of them were successful in terms of improving performance both operational and in general efficiency terms.
If you want to change the direction of the bus, it's important that you don't stand outside and, worse still right in front of it, waving your arms about and shouting a lot, because you'll get left behind or run over. It's always best being on the bus so you can argue with the driver and conductor, maybe even lead the rest of the passengers in a sing-song (sorry, getting too enthusiastic there). That way you have the chance to change the course, slowing it down or stopping it. I'd rather be inside.
I didn't use the aircraft example, because their all hijack proof these days. Damn - what a thought!
ST
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Soft top, you're missing a very simple point. I am paid to shift aircraft, I do that. Management are paid to manage the company, they are making a mess of that. It's that simple - they don't help me at my job, I am certainly not going to help them at theirs. I thought you may have suggested working voluntarily at one point, but I'll let that slip, I'm sure you're not insane 
NATS is now a profit orientated company, not my choice but there you go. Reap what you sow and all that.........
NATS is now a profit orientated company, not my choice but there you go. Reap what you sow and all that.........
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actas
Dee Mac is right. We do our job in spite of Management, not because of of it.
Alstom Air is seeking to diversify into a global expertise provider, lots of travel and expense account lunches no doubt. Meanwhile the poor bl@@dy infantry will continue to sweat their nuts off holding up the home front.
I am a little vague on what exactly NATS is supposed to be tasked with these days; this is a result of a less-than-perfect [ and certainly unclear ] divorce from the old CAA. Empire building and self-engrandisment has left NATS with not just a core business of Air Traffic Service provider but a service company with much of the old regulatory and R&d workload that it had pre-separation. This suits both Goverment and CAA alike because all the "fringe" costs are disguised in NATS' charge structure....it also explains why NATS has such a bloated non-operational workforce far in excess of what is required for a pure ATS provider.
Perhaps you can understand why operational staff who have pride in their professional work ethic might want to steer clear of the short-term cancers that plague our sacred territory from time to time.
Alstom Air is seeking to diversify into a global expertise provider, lots of travel and expense account lunches no doubt. Meanwhile the poor bl@@dy infantry will continue to sweat their nuts off holding up the home front.
I am a little vague on what exactly NATS is supposed to be tasked with these days; this is a result of a less-than-perfect [ and certainly unclear ] divorce from the old CAA. Empire building and self-engrandisment has left NATS with not just a core business of Air Traffic Service provider but a service company with much of the old regulatory and R&d workload that it had pre-separation. This suits both Goverment and CAA alike because all the "fringe" costs are disguised in NATS' charge structure....it also explains why NATS has such a bloated non-operational workforce far in excess of what is required for a pure ATS provider.
Perhaps you can understand why operational staff who have pride in their professional work ethic might want to steer clear of the short-term cancers that plague our sacred territory from time to time.