No pay for December?
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Vector Line,
I wouldn't call it sad. I would call it pride in giving the best possible service. Knowing the next or previous persons job and knowing the workload on the Flight Deck in different situations is an intricate skill to better quality. It improves ATC service and improves an ATC's skills.
Additionally visiting other centres can also mean a tax deduction when on holiday for some countries eg Australian ATC's can claim a tax deduction for visiting other centres.
So please don't criticise others for volutarily trying to improve their skills.One day it may come that you will thank them for putting in that extra bit of effort when they pull you out of the fire. Remember what goes around comes around mate!!!!
I wouldn't call it sad. I would call it pride in giving the best possible service. Knowing the next or previous persons job and knowing the workload on the Flight Deck in different situations is an intricate skill to better quality. It improves ATC service and improves an ATC's skills.
Additionally visiting other centres can also mean a tax deduction when on holiday for some countries eg Australian ATC's can claim a tax deduction for visiting other centres.
So please don't criticise others for volutarily trying to improve their skills.One day it may come that you will thank them for putting in that extra bit of effort when they pull you out of the fire. Remember what goes around comes around mate!!!!
Pardoned PPRuNer
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You tell em PV
But it is the sort of WORLD-ROTATES-MY-SUN attitude that you get from these guys. Why would they possibly want to visit another centre, or more, are there other centres?
Apart from the taking pride in your work thingy, I know I know that by the time NERC opens you hope to have totally eliminated any pride, skill or ability that you may have once had as ATC's there also comes the part of actually being interested in your work.
Never even been in the front of an aeroplane have you Vectorline.... on most United 747-400's for instance the "jump seat" is one of their old First class seats, or even better a nice cosy spare bunk...and then many times upon visiting the drivers have I been invited to sample the luxuries of Business class for the rest of the flight. 99 times out of 100 the crews are amazed to see ATC's visit the front, not only does it break the boredom (for both parties), it shows the flag and ....well far be it for me to suggest such a thing....you might actually learn something
oh thats right .. you know it all already, sorry
But it is the sort of WORLD-ROTATES-MY-SUN attitude that you get from these guys. Why would they possibly want to visit another centre, or more, are there other centres?
Apart from the taking pride in your work thingy, I know I know that by the time NERC opens you hope to have totally eliminated any pride, skill or ability that you may have once had as ATC's there also comes the part of actually being interested in your work.
Just like those who pay good money for a comfy seat on a plane then asked to be squashed into a jump seat for the duration.
oh thats right .. you know it all already, sorry
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I`ve noted a lot of people whinging here about other units` presentation of traffic - how about I start a new thread for people to `discuss` these issues? WARNING - this will not turn into a slanging match between LATCC AC and TC! If that`s what you want, try somewhere else. If you`re interested in a sensible discussion, have a look at the new thread. Cheers, BB!
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So, Totally Trafficless,
[Apologies to all, He's got me going.....yet again!!]
Q.Have you ACTUALLY been on a "Liason Visit?"
Q.Have you REALLY been on a Fam Flight?
Q. Have you ANY idea just what is going on in the REAL world?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[Apologies to all, He's got me going.....yet again!!]
Q.Have you ACTUALLY been on a "Liason Visit?"
Q.Have you REALLY been on a Fam Flight?
Q. Have you ANY idea just what is going on in the REAL world?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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TT and PV
I've begun to notice that as you follow each other from thread to thread, you're so far up each other's arses, I'm beginning to wonder.....
Are you lovers ???
. . . . . . .
I've begun to notice that as you follow each other from thread to thread, you're so far up each other's arses, I'm beginning to wonder.....
Are you lovers ???
. . . . . . .
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Guys if there was ever a need for a PRIVATE nats forum then that to$$er Traffic Traffic should be all the justification needed .He arrives on this site with a demeanour designed to wind people up ....lets get the private forum off the ground .
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Hello...?
I'm not angry at all... I'm quite happy actually. I also enjoy my job a lot. I never had much aviaition interest when I started out. However, now I very much enjoy liason visits and fam flights. But I wouldn't pay for a fam flight on the odd chance I might get to sit in business. I wouldn't collect train numbers either. but some people love it. Just my opinion you see.
oh and traffic - I don't see anything in my previous post to suggest I am a "know it all". Mind you, there is plenty to suggest that you are an uppity, opinionated t**t!
Now then, back to what this post was originally about - who started this rumour about us not getting paid in December?
I'm not angry at all... I'm quite happy actually. I also enjoy my job a lot. I never had much aviaition interest when I started out. However, now I very much enjoy liason visits and fam flights. But I wouldn't pay for a fam flight on the odd chance I might get to sit in business. I wouldn't collect train numbers either. but some people love it. Just my opinion you see.
oh and traffic - I don't see anything in my previous post to suggest I am a "know it all". Mind you, there is plenty to suggest that you are an uppity, opinionated t**t!
Now then, back to what this post was originally about - who started this rumour about us not getting paid in December?
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Well said vectorline,
And as for you union bashers out there - if you're not being given information about when you're being paid then harass your managers not your reps. They're supposed to be the ones with the information!!! It's not unreasonable to ask your employers if there's any truth in the rumour.
[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: Father Dougal ]
And as for you union bashers out there - if you're not being given information about when you're being paid then harass your managers not your reps. They're supposed to be the ones with the information!!! It's not unreasonable to ask your employers if there's any truth in the rumour.
[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: Father Dougal ]
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Ok , let's try and put the visit issue to bed.
TT& Scott, many people are keen to make visits to other units and also fam flights provided that it doesn't impinge on their home life. Many ATCOs at LATCC are involved in a 160 mile a day commute just to do a normal days' work as lots have moved in preparation for NERC.
It used to be that time in lieu was given for these activities,but since this is no longer the case, many are reluctant to do them. eg. We get transatlantic fam flights, but they involve the return trip plus only 1 night in the US. Nice to do provided you're not at work the day after you get back,especially as socialising with the crew is expected whilst out there!
We do still get some liasion visits but this has been an extremely tough few months for most people in AC due to the NERC training-again no time in lieu is allowed.
Whenever I fly I ALWAYS try to get "up front" for a chat and indeed earlier this year was refused access to the flight deck for the first time ever( except on some US carriers). I've also visited numerous centres particularly in the US when over there.
But this type of thing is not for everyone!!
I believe that Maastricht do still get visits paid for and do them in company time-correct me if I'm wrong TT. We recently had Canadian controllers over on a visit and they had around 6 days to make the trip!!
Manchester is not the most salubrious place to spend your days off (sorry chiglet), and I'm sure the WM would have got a greater uptake if a) he'd chosen Maastricht or Paris/Rheims, and b) hadn't been going himself.
NATS is in a mess at present, with the training at NERC being inadequate, commuting, no improvement in management communication even when there are rumours that we may not get paid soon, and also the potential for large job cuts in support grades.
TT& Scott, many people are keen to make visits to other units and also fam flights provided that it doesn't impinge on their home life. Many ATCOs at LATCC are involved in a 160 mile a day commute just to do a normal days' work as lots have moved in preparation for NERC.
It used to be that time in lieu was given for these activities,but since this is no longer the case, many are reluctant to do them. eg. We get transatlantic fam flights, but they involve the return trip plus only 1 night in the US. Nice to do provided you're not at work the day after you get back,especially as socialising with the crew is expected whilst out there!
We do still get some liasion visits but this has been an extremely tough few months for most people in AC due to the NERC training-again no time in lieu is allowed.
Whenever I fly I ALWAYS try to get "up front" for a chat and indeed earlier this year was refused access to the flight deck for the first time ever( except on some US carriers). I've also visited numerous centres particularly in the US when over there.
But this type of thing is not for everyone!!
I believe that Maastricht do still get visits paid for and do them in company time-correct me if I'm wrong TT. We recently had Canadian controllers over on a visit and they had around 6 days to make the trip!!
Manchester is not the most salubrious place to spend your days off (sorry chiglet), and I'm sure the WM would have got a greater uptake if a) he'd chosen Maastricht or Paris/Rheims, and b) hadn't been going himself.
NATS is in a mess at present, with the training at NERC being inadequate, commuting, no improvement in management communication even when there are rumours that we may not get paid soon, and also the potential for large job cuts in support grades.
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160 to 4 DME,
This is exactly the response I would expect from someone with the intellect and brain capacity of a gnat.
You sound like the exact type of person on the other end that continually delivers crap to the accepting unit due to his ignorance and lack of knowledge.
I don't necessarily agree with TT's comments on all accounts but find it amusing in his baiting and the constant bleeting from LATCC controllers taking the bait. If you had any brains you would ignore him and eventually he would go away. Your response to a serious discussion of famil visits to find out the other persons job highlights the infantile attitude that you have. Or maybe your colleagues only let you out of your padded cell during the quiet times, but then again it only takes 2 aircraft to make a conflict or maybe you haven't realised that yet.
160 to 4 DME "You are the weakest link, Goodbye".
[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]
[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]
This is exactly the response I would expect from someone with the intellect and brain capacity of a gnat.
You sound like the exact type of person on the other end that continually delivers crap to the accepting unit due to his ignorance and lack of knowledge.
I don't necessarily agree with TT's comments on all accounts but find it amusing in his baiting and the constant bleeting from LATCC controllers taking the bait. If you had any brains you would ignore him and eventually he would go away. Your response to a serious discussion of famil visits to find out the other persons job highlights the infantile attitude that you have. Or maybe your colleagues only let you out of your padded cell during the quiet times, but then again it only takes 2 aircraft to make a conflict or maybe you haven't realised that yet.
160 to 4 DME "You are the weakest link, Goodbye".
[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]
[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]
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Howdy;
Y'all's version of FAM trips are a bit different than ours. For going to facilities you go on duty time and only duty time now. On flights it is the same thing and we can combine vacation time at the destination if we would like.
Right now ALL FAMS are ended with the security that is in place. As for US air carriers, they have had a closed cockpit policy (Federal Air Regs) for close to two decades.
Also, just what is a traffic presentation that you are all talking about. I am confused.
regards
Y'all's version of FAM trips are a bit different than ours. For going to facilities you go on duty time and only duty time now. On flights it is the same thing and we can combine vacation time at the destination if we would like.
Right now ALL FAMS are ended with the security that is in place. As for US air carriers, they have had a closed cockpit policy (Federal Air Regs) for close to two decades.
Also, just what is a traffic presentation that you are all talking about. I am confused.
regards
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PV
And talking about taking the bait, your response suggests you swallowed it hook, line and sinker
If you can't take as much as you give, then button it
Roll on the NATS forum (that's probably enough to generate a response)
And talking about taking the bait, your response suggests you swallowed it hook, line and sinker
If you can't take as much as you give, then button it
Roll on the NATS forum (that's probably enough to generate a response)
Pardoned PPRuNer
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Come on guys....calm down.
Hey this suggestion about a NATS only forum just seems a little silly. I mean have you blokes at NATS wondered why there are not a whole lot of posts from others bitching about their entres/units/towers...whatever? Its because we have all our internal discussions internally. It seems that you huys are more intent on destroying you own morale than your new bosses.
B]I can see it now in TAG HQ[/B]
Two blokes resembling Mr Burns and Smithers Logged on to NOBS (NATS Online Bullsh!t Service) whilst downloading the latest Kylie and Brittany Spears MP3's from NOBSter they are killing themselves laughing reading the latest PPRUNE posts from their loyal worker ants.
Come on you blokes show some team spirit, I mean your own team and then I can get back to Baiting you guys properly. Because at the moment I feel genuinely sorry for you, becasue as an outsider it appears you are receiving little information form management, no information from your unions and people are just making up their own reasons....just the facts , usually works.
I am happy to be corrected on any point.
P.S. 160-4 I dont bat for the other side...and I know PV doesnt ....any more....well not often any way.
Come on Chin-Up you NATS boys and girls, better than a transfer to Kabul TWR.
Hey this suggestion about a NATS only forum just seems a little silly. I mean have you blokes at NATS wondered why there are not a whole lot of posts from others bitching about their entres/units/towers...whatever? Its because we have all our internal discussions internally. It seems that you huys are more intent on destroying you own morale than your new bosses.
B]I can see it now in TAG HQ[/B]
Two blokes resembling Mr Burns and Smithers Logged on to NOBS (NATS Online Bullsh!t Service) whilst downloading the latest Kylie and Brittany Spears MP3's from NOBSter they are killing themselves laughing reading the latest PPRUNE posts from their loyal worker ants.
Come on you blokes show some team spirit, I mean your own team and then I can get back to Baiting you guys properly. Because at the moment I feel genuinely sorry for you, becasue as an outsider it appears you are receiving little information form management, no information from your unions and people are just making up their own reasons....just the facts , usually works.
I am happy to be corrected on any point.
P.S. 160-4 I dont bat for the other side...and I know PV doesnt ....any more....well not often any way.
Come on Chin-Up you NATS boys and girls, better than a transfer to Kabul TWR.
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hmmm, now that you've all kissed and made up...a question if I may?
Scott asked it earlier, just what is an AC, TC, presentation etc etc...an "acronyms for dummies" please :o
Otherwise, us non European types haven't a clue what you guys are on about!
Interesting discussion though...
Scott asked it earlier, just what is an AC, TC, presentation etc etc...an "acronyms for dummies" please :o
Otherwise, us non European types haven't a clue what you guys are on about!
Interesting discussion though...
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TT - thanks, without being a git, it means something for you to say that.
Scott and dd, traffic presentation is the way we transfer aircraft to another controller without a phonecall saying whats happenning, basically their 'presentation' on the radar. Between many Latcc sectors, and also Maastricht/Latcc, this is permitted on headings with a few provisos, the main ones being radar working, phones working, and for Maastricht, climbing to different levels (oh, nearly forgot, SEPARATED!!). Its all to easy to sling an a/c on a heading though that is really unhelpful to the next controller, ie its fast exitting his airspace before it even calls!!!!! Inbounds to TC, ideal presentation is on speeds, 10-15 miles in trail, and the first doing no more than 300kts, even slower if holding is occurring (as far as I'm aware anyway).
Scott and dd, traffic presentation is the way we transfer aircraft to another controller without a phonecall saying whats happenning, basically their 'presentation' on the radar. Between many Latcc sectors, and also Maastricht/Latcc, this is permitted on headings with a few provisos, the main ones being radar working, phones working, and for Maastricht, climbing to different levels (oh, nearly forgot, SEPARATED!!). Its all to easy to sling an a/c on a heading though that is really unhelpful to the next controller, ie its fast exitting his airspace before it even calls!!!!! Inbounds to TC, ideal presentation is on speeds, 10-15 miles in trail, and the first doing no more than 300kts, even slower if holding is occurring (as far as I'm aware anyway).
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I know this is a discussion board and so is bound to include endless posts droning on about completely dull topics or off-the-mark rumour-mongering... but can we please stop this nonsense about not getting paid in December?!
The fact is that no decision has been made whether to make payday the usual week before Christmas, or (for obvious financial reasons) keep to the official payday of the 27th. Rumours that salaries wont be paid at all is complete nonsense.
As an aside on the subject... maybe if there is a worry about salaries being paid then the wealthy ATCOs could spare a thought for those in the industry who receive more modest pay packets.
The fact is that no decision has been made whether to make payday the usual week before Christmas, or (for obvious financial reasons) keep to the official payday of the 27th. Rumours that salaries wont be paid at all is complete nonsense.
As an aside on the subject... maybe if there is a worry about salaries being paid then the wealthy ATCOs could spare a thought for those in the industry who receive more modest pay packets.