BBC1: "Breaking News - computer failure grounds UK flights"(Merged)
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Software update last night, was tested. ok
In the light of day, HOST computer, still sited at West Drayton and serving En-route and TMA FAILED.
STOPED departures. Go into manual production of flight 'strips' with WHAT staff.
Poor pax and crews. Takes all day for NATS customers to catch up. Which Coy will sue first? Where is NATS press release?
Happened last year also, I think.
In the light of day, HOST computer, still sited at West Drayton and serving En-route and TMA FAILED.
STOPED departures. Go into manual production of flight 'strips' with WHAT staff.
Poor pax and crews. Takes all day for NATS customers to catch up. Which Coy will sue first? Where is NATS press release?
Happened last year also, I think.
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Just talked to NATS PR - and a chap who is not, one senses, having a toppermost day.
The problem wasn't an upgrade - no code has changed on the FDPS. They were testing some software management stuff, which seemed to go OK, but following the tests the FDPS booted into an 'unstable mode' which took three quarters of an hour to fix and a further 20 minutes to declare stable again. During that time, it was all hands to the keyboards to slap flight data into the system, a backup regime with 'capacity issues'.
They don't know exactly why the problem happened yet.
R
The problem wasn't an upgrade - no code has changed on the FDPS. They were testing some software management stuff, which seemed to go OK, but following the tests the FDPS booted into an 'unstable mode' which took three quarters of an hour to fix and a further 20 minutes to declare stable again. During that time, it was all hands to the keyboards to slap flight data into the system, a backup regime with 'capacity issues'.
They don't know exactly why the problem happened yet.
R
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The engineers have discovered the root of the problem at last and have implemented this high-tech and highly effective solution....
Last edited by bagpuss lives; 3rd Jun 2004 at 17:04.
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From the NATS website:-
Host Computer System Problem
We would like to apologise unreservedly to air travellers whose journeys have been delayed this morning following testing of the Flight Data Processing System (FDP), based at West Drayton. We would like to reassure air travellers that the safety of flights was not in any way compromised.
The FDP was being tested overnight for a future upgrade. The system was successfully returned to service but at 06.03 errors were detected in the distribution of flight data between Centres. As a precaution, we decided to restart the FDP (known as a cold restart) causing an interruption to full service. The data processing system was restored at 06.42 and declared fully operational at 07.03. Flight capacity restrictions were lifted at 08.05. The system is now fully operational and we are confident that it is stable.
Through the response team at West Drayton, we have been working with airports and airlines to clear the delayed departures, and expect the backlog to be cleared quickly.
Our investigation into the cause of the problem is continuing.
This is the first NATS service interruption for two years and, while departures were restricted at a number of UK airports, during the interruption, all flights inbound to the UK, and those within UK airspace, were handled safely and effectively.
3 June 2004
Host Computer System Problem
We would like to apologise unreservedly to air travellers whose journeys have been delayed this morning following testing of the Flight Data Processing System (FDP), based at West Drayton. We would like to reassure air travellers that the safety of flights was not in any way compromised.
The FDP was being tested overnight for a future upgrade. The system was successfully returned to service but at 06.03 errors were detected in the distribution of flight data between Centres. As a precaution, we decided to restart the FDP (known as a cold restart) causing an interruption to full service. The data processing system was restored at 06.42 and declared fully operational at 07.03. Flight capacity restrictions were lifted at 08.05. The system is now fully operational and we are confident that it is stable.
Through the response team at West Drayton, we have been working with airports and airlines to clear the delayed departures, and expect the backlog to be cleared quickly.
Our investigation into the cause of the problem is continuing.
This is the first NATS service interruption for two years and, while departures were restricted at a number of UK airports, during the interruption, all flights inbound to the UK, and those within UK airspace, were handled safely and effectively.
3 June 2004
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The one thing that really naffs me off is these 'experts' that could not find their bums with a pre-programmed GPS! If the system is 30 years old then why is the software used here
http://www.jovial.hill.af.mil/jovhist.htm
I dont think these aircraft are 30 years old (well, not all of them). They use the JOVIAL language because is (duh) GOOD!
The hardware has been upgraded more times than the Tory party and is about to get another one. Thirty! More like three.
Maybe we should let JOVIAL speak for itself in the advanced cruise missile.....
Some of the more notable weapon systems using JOVIAL include (but are not limited too) the Advanced Cruise Missile, B-52, B-1, and B-2 Bombers, C-130, C-141, and C-17 Transport Aircraft, F-15, F-16, F-18, and F-117 Fighter Aircraft, LANTIRN, U-2 Aircraft, E-3 AWACS Aircraft, Special Operations Forces, Navy AEGIS Cruisers, Army Multiple Launch Rocket System, Army Blackhawk Helicopters, F100, F117, F119 Jet Engines, and RL-10 Rocket Engines.
http://www.jovial.hill.af.mil/jovhist.htm
I dont think these aircraft are 30 years old (well, not all of them). They use the JOVIAL language because is (duh) GOOD!
The hardware has been upgraded more times than the Tory party and is about to get another one. Thirty! More like three.
Maybe we should let JOVIAL speak for itself in the advanced cruise missile.....
Some of the more notable weapon systems using JOVIAL include (but are not limited too) the Advanced Cruise Missile, B-52, B-1, and B-2 Bombers, C-130, C-141, and C-17 Transport Aircraft, F-15, F-16, F-18, and F-117 Fighter Aircraft, LANTIRN, U-2 Aircraft, E-3 AWACS Aircraft, Special Operations Forces, Navy AEGIS Cruisers, Army Multiple Launch Rocket System, Army Blackhawk Helicopters, F100, F117, F119 Jet Engines, and RL-10 Rocket Engines.
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Does this remind anyone of that film "Ground Control"?
In another thread they mention something about the ATC computers going down and an ATCA is sent out to the local newsagent to pick up a circuit board... Aren't there any newsagents in West Drayton?
Sorry - Serious topic really, but it made me laugh.
Just goes to show how indispensable ATCOs really are. The "computerised ATCO" they were apparently testing some time ago (as per flight mag) wont (we hope) be making any appearances soon.
Well done guys.
In another thread they mention something about the ATC computers going down and an ATCA is sent out to the local newsagent to pick up a circuit board... Aren't there any newsagents in West Drayton?
Sorry - Serious topic really, but it made me laugh.
Just goes to show how indispensable ATCOs really are. The "computerised ATCO" they were apparently testing some time ago (as per flight mag) wont (we hope) be making any appearances soon.
Well done guys.
well if Al Qa'ida is involved Pres Bush will be making plans to invade West Drayton as we speak, 'cept he'll invade West Dayton, Ohio!!
From what I've heard matters were handled very well by all concerned considering the enormity of the problem
From what I've heard matters were handled very well by all concerned considering the enormity of the problem
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I've just seen the sensationalist coverage on ITV news. Did you controllers realise that you "rushed to get planes on the ground" and that you "had to talk the planes down"? Do these people think the computer does EVERYTHING?
It also showed some library footage of a controller with a pen, updating some flight progress strips in normal operation and seemed to suggest that having to use a pen was "very dangerous". It then went on to show the technology on a 30 year old car, and tried to draw parallels with the ATC computer system.
They seemed almost disappointed to report that most in the industry had said it was just one of those things, and that safety had never been compromised.
I was lucky enough to visit LTCC earlier this year, and would like to pass on my support for all concerned in today's events.
It also showed some library footage of a controller with a pen, updating some flight progress strips in normal operation and seemed to suggest that having to use a pen was "very dangerous". It then went on to show the technology on a 30 year old car, and tried to draw parallels with the ATC computer system.
They seemed almost disappointed to report that most in the industry had said it was just one of those things, and that safety had never been compromised.
I was lucky enough to visit LTCC earlier this year, and would like to pass on my support for all concerned in today's events.
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Yes,
I just watched that itv news coverage. To say that they have blown things out of proportion is an understatement. It makes you wonder what news you can believe these days. They said the WHOLE computer systems failed (Im sure it was the machine that dealt with the flight progress strips) or flight data strips as itv call them! As Eyes to the Skies mentioned, itv said they had to 'talk' all the planes down, well yes '....clear to land...' is a usual command.
I dont see why so many people complain about delays if this happens, wouldnt they rather know that they were safe and alive.
I noticed a spokesperson for BALPA was on itv too and said that the avaiation industry was confident that safety was never compromised.
I think the bottom line is that itv manufacture the story the way they want it to sound to have the biggest impact on its viewers. Why cant there be descent honest news that tells you exactly what happens
I just watched that itv news coverage. To say that they have blown things out of proportion is an understatement. It makes you wonder what news you can believe these days. They said the WHOLE computer systems failed (Im sure it was the machine that dealt with the flight progress strips) or flight data strips as itv call them! As Eyes to the Skies mentioned, itv said they had to 'talk' all the planes down, well yes '....clear to land...' is a usual command.
I dont see why so many people complain about delays if this happens, wouldnt they rather know that they were safe and alive.
I noticed a spokesperson for BALPA was on itv too and said that the avaiation industry was confident that safety was never compromised.
I think the bottom line is that itv manufacture the story the way they want it to sound to have the biggest impact on its viewers. Why cant there be descent honest news that tells you exactly what happens
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mps you're hoping that journalists will actually research and understand what they are talking about. No sensationalise everything, even if it a serious story to start with.
I saw the thirty year old car bit, using that analogy should they not mention a 747 is 35 years old and people are still stupid enough to fly in them.
I saw the thirty year old car bit, using that analogy should they not mention a 747 is 35 years old and people are still stupid enough to fly in them.
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Thicko Guide to ATC and How it Breaks
A handy print out and keep guide from civil aviation expert Philip Butterworth-Hayes.
Do you reckon that's his real name?
Do you reckon that's his real name?
Expert, eh?
x = the unknown factor
spurt = drip under pressure
Where on Earth do they get these clots from? There was another on Radio 4 this morning (Simon somebody) working himself into an orgasm over the fact, as he saw it, that all the aircraft only narrowly avoided falling out of the sky. He then rattled on about controllers choreographing the aerial ballet of three-dimensional chess and worked his way into a liguistic cul-de-sac, a la Alan Partridge.
x = the unknown factor
spurt = drip under pressure
Where on Earth do they get these clots from? There was another on Radio 4 this morning (Simon somebody) working himself into an orgasm over the fact, as he saw it, that all the aircraft only narrowly avoided falling out of the sky. He then rattled on about controllers choreographing the aerial ballet of three-dimensional chess and worked his way into a liguistic cul-de-sac, a la Alan Partridge.
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regarding this mornings fun and games.
seems pretty appalling to me that all and sundry were wheeled out before 8am to comment on this mornings events spouting forth misinformation and unrelated crap ( secretary of balpa please step forward ) and nats press office did fcuk all.
the situation was very simple to explain and would have hopefully stopped in its tracks all the rubbish ideas being promoted by "aviation experts" and the certain trash that will be in tomorrows papers.
shame on nats for not giving a second thought to making the effort to get someone out of bed early to say a few words - staff all over the company worked very hard today and the public image of those efforts is coloured by another example of ****e management
seems pretty appalling to me that all and sundry were wheeled out before 8am to comment on this mornings events spouting forth misinformation and unrelated crap ( secretary of balpa please step forward ) and nats press office did fcuk all.
the situation was very simple to explain and would have hopefully stopped in its tracks all the rubbish ideas being promoted by "aviation experts" and the certain trash that will be in tomorrows papers.
shame on nats for not giving a second thought to making the effort to get someone out of bed early to say a few words - staff all over the company worked very hard today and the public image of those efforts is coloured by another example of ****e management
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I've just watched teh 10pm news on both BBC and Sky. Both seemed to be fair and balanced reports.
I realise that journos do blow things up to get a better story, but some of the things being said here are a tad unfair...
"The system is 30 years old"
Actually, parts of the system are very old.. the software is! The computer itself has been updated several times, but it is basically the same software, which has had updates and patches aplenty over the years. It is, however, still NAS being run on teh Host Computer System - (so named because it Hosts the old software)
Most disappointing thing about the Sky report was that I drove past the interview with Ian Hall outside LTCC TWICE (going to and from getting my lunch) but I didn't appear on the telly!
Now THAT is shoddy journalism
I realise that journos do blow things up to get a better story, but some of the things being said here are a tad unfair...
"The system is 30 years old"
Actually, parts of the system are very old.. the software is! The computer itself has been updated several times, but it is basically the same software, which has had updates and patches aplenty over the years. It is, however, still NAS being run on teh Host Computer System - (so named because it Hosts the old software)
Most disappointing thing about the Sky report was that I drove past the interview with Ian Hall outside LTCC TWICE (going to and from getting my lunch) but I didn't appear on the telly!
Now THAT is shoddy journalism
