Looking for tower ATCO training (or ATSA jobs)

[duncanindevon]

Happy new year everyone.

I’m an ex-NATS student (yes, yet another one!) who screwed up a couple of approach radar summatives just before Christmas and got binned (despite having a previously perfect clean sheet) 4 days before what would have been my finishing/posting date

My details have been passed to the appropriate personnel people within NATS to try to find me an ATSA job, but it’s really not looking good. Despite all of the above, I still have my heart set on being an ATCO eventually – it’s definitely the job I was put on this earth to do, and even six weeks of OJT at Heathrow in July/August last year hasn’t put me off…

I’ve read replies to this sort of post before, so I know that I will probably have to settle for being an ATSA in the short term, which is OK, and that jobs don’t just fall in your lap. What I’m asking is – given that I have my tower rating, does anyone on here know of places at the moment which would give consideration to employing me as an ATSA in the short term with a view to starting training for a tower validation at some point in the future? Outright job offers would be great but I don’t have that sort of luck, so rumours, suggestions, anything would be good – I'm not hearing much good news from NATS at the moment.

Thanks!
Duncan.

PS. I should make it clear that I don't mind whereabouts in the UK, or how much I'd get paid - the job is the important bit!

[flower]

Duncan
I think we may have met when you visited Cardiff, sorry you weren't successful.
At the moment you are feeling naturally a great deal of disappointment, see what NATS have to offer and take your time viewing your options.
There are a good number of Tower only ATCOs out there so i wouldn't hold out a massive amount of hope. You may find your options increase if you can do an Approach rating at one of the other ATC colleges one of which is at Cwmbran in Wales.
Good Luck sorry I cannot offer more info for you.

[360BakTrak]

It all depends on what sort of unit you want to work at really, ie size.

The best way is to print loads and loads of CV's and covering letters and bang em' out to every Air Traffic unit in the country, it worked for me!

If you need any more help send me a PM.

Good Luck,

360

[valley boy]

Greetings Duncan,
The ATC College as mentioned in Cwmbran is Dundridge College.www.dundridgecollege.com
They have been involved with military training for years, but are in the process of obtaining SRG approval for UK civil ATC training, hopefully the first Approach course starting in March.
Best of luck with your career.
VB

[Connex]

Duncan in devon -

Quote: “so I know that I will probably have to settle for being an ATSA in the short term, which is OK,”

So glad to hear it - We look forward to you gracing us with your presence – which will take away yet another potential transfer/redeployment/promotional position from the ATSA in-house workforce. Give the job to a serving Assistant, who has earnt the right to apply, and in all probability, will be better at it anyway.

CATC Bournemouth and PCS – take note!!

[Dan Dare]

Hello again Duncan,

You have recognised that you have stepped a few rungs down on the food chain (statistically), and everything now is down to being in the right place at the right time. All is not lost and I have known people to have benefitted from a similar career move. It isn't unknown for someone to get straight into a Class D controlled airodrome. One chopped member of my course was earning far more than his NATS counterparts for many years, and he was where he wanted to be as well!

If you really aren't that lucky go through the AIP and find the many Tower only fields out there. They are the most likely to have difficulty with numbers. You would be very fortunate to be paid during initial MER training, but once you have validated the initial rating you would be much more marketable elsewhere.

You will already know the glamour airfileds, but have you considered:

1. Lands End
2. Shoreham
3. Oxford
4. Redhill
5. Booker
6. Oxford (possibly now SERCo?)
7. Swansea
8. Coventry
9. Woodvale

These are off the top of my head, but there should be many more. Don't delay though, you now only have 6 months to commence MER, otherwise you would have to sit an expensive assessment of previous competance.

Best of luck!

[Fly Through]

Hi Duncan,
Well great to hear the enthusiasm, you'll need it!!
Went exactly the same way myself awhile back, that first validation is the killer. I had to do the MER unpaid for 3 months to get that validation but it was worth all the struggling in the end. As was mentioned above bombard everyone & anyone in ATC, arrange visits to some of the smaller airfields and see what happens. If you're down on the south coast I can recommend a visit to Shoreham, go talk to John Haffenden and meet the guys, if they can't help they might know someone who can. Also give Serco a bell, offer to train unpaid initially (they'll love that) but they need people for those outer lying places (North Denes ) but it'll get your foot in the door.

Anyway good luck in what ever you do and when you start building up those rejection letters, just keep trying, it'll happen sooner or later.

Rgds FT

[Barnaby the Bear]

Duncan,
I was in the same position a few years ago. I am a valid controller, so don't give up.
It is slightly different now, with the 6 month limit, and you may find some difficulty finding a company that will allow you to train for free. Something to do with insurance.
But don't let that stop you. Get your CV out and good luck

[radar707]

Duncan, try HIAL, they are always in need of people to work out in those far to reach places in the British Isles, if you are successful they will also put you through the approach (procedural) course, but it will tie you to them for a few years for them to recoup the initial costs of the course, the loophole that existed a few years ago has now been closed.

[duncanindevon]

Thanks for all your comments guys - gives me a bit more hope!

Connex - I'm sorry if I offended you with my posting. I can only say that I don't mean to imply that being an ATSA would be in any way inferior - it's just not what I want to do as a career.

Duncan.

[Bright-Ling]

DinD....

Don't worry about Connex's remarks. Go for what you want.

Others to Consider are Battersea Heliport, Southend, Leeds, Shoreham - all of which have taken ex NATS cadets in the same position as yourself.

Good luck (from a Roborough bloke!!)

B-L

[Gonzo]

B-L,

Roborough? Now that I didn't know! "When I were a lad..." I used to walk up on to Shaugh Prior or above Cadover Bridge with my airband!

[Bright-Ling]

I would say "****** me" but I have been told not to say that in earshot of you!!



(and your pervy obsessions with yr scanner are yr own lookout fella!!!)

And before Jerricho pipes up - NO we were NOT seperated at birth!

So - who's who in the tower these days then.......?

B-L

[flower]

Regarding the 6 months on the Student licence.
Now someone somewhere told me that you could renew your student licence at a cost.
How true that is I do not know but if you are keen then it should be something to look into if you have no joy at an early stage in finding work.
I'm glad there are a lot of people giving you positive pointers Duncan, Fingers crossed.

[Miles Magister]

Don't forget VT Aerospace who run quite a few airfields for the RAF, many of which do not have radar so they may not worry about your course.

They have been short of peolple at Wyton so it is worth a try.

Good luck

[duncanindevon]

Flower (and others) - I checked with SRG this afternoon.

A student licence acquired before 16th December will last for a year. If you start a UTP before the year is up, it can be extended f.o.c. for 2 more years. If you don't start a UTP before the year is up, an APC will be necessary.

Student licences issued AFTER 16th December only last for 6 months.

Flower - yes, we met at Cardiff. Hope Aidan (from my course) is getting on OK there!

Gonzo - I know Shaugh and Cadover very well - no doubt Plymouth Approach is better received up there than in Yelverton!

Thanks again for all your help.

D in D.

[Connex]

DinD –

In the light of recent requests to keep in-house NATS issues away from the public gaze, I would have preferred to place this post on the dedicated NATS forum, but I don’t know if you have access to it. Therefore, it’s on here.

You did not offend me with your posting. I simply responded to an item which is something of a sore point at the moment, and is going to be of greater significance when the Company starts wielding the redundancy axe at the ATSAs. There will be more ATSAs than myself bemoaning the fact that the Company was happy with appointing ex-cadets to ATSA positions. Things are going to change for the ATSA workforce, and not for the better. Each Unit knows basically how it will be affected. You ATSAs out there who are keeping quiet on this one, (and other issues) and who will eventually be the subject of redundancy or enforced redeployment might well regret not making a stand against this procedure (EGCC/EGLL ATSAs take note!).

Look at it from the ATSA side. What has an ex-cadet done to deserve an ATSA job? Nothing! They haven’t passed an ATSA assessment.They have achieved nothing – they failed! Even more reason to refuse such a request if its abundantly clear that the intention of the applicant is to elbow the ATSA post if an ATCO post is offered, which is unlikely if they couldn’t cut the mustard the first time around! So we end up with staff who don’t really want the job, and have effectively blocked a genuine applicant from getting it. There would be revolution in the ATCO ranks if a similar scheme snatched away potential in-house ATCO positions. You can bet your life on it that their Union would have something to say about it. What do we hear from PCS? Speak up chaps – I can’t hear you. As usual.

Sadly, we are now the Company “whipping boys”. ATCOs think we are overpaid, have little or no value/importance, and all we are good for is reading newspapers all day. No support, no respect, no nothing – when it comes to assessing our position and standing within the Company and with our peers, it don’t get much worse.

For some of us, it won’t be long before the only skill we will need is to make sure the guy standing in front of us wants a large fries with his Big Mac. If we want to remain an integral and valuable part of ATC, then the ATSAs must get off their ar*es and do something now! Its also time for the Union to do the right thing – speak to us, find out what’s going on, and get the house in order. Try to save what we still have before its too late – not least of all our self respect.

PS: Nice touch – the ATCO troops rallying to the cause on this post – pity the ATSAs can’t do the same. If we don’t change our attitude now, our apathy will be the instrument of our own demise. And it will serve us right.

[Partly Achieved]

Duncan -

"Been there - done that"

- I was in your position about 7 years ago. I got a job as an ACPO at Swanwick and then on to be an operational ATSA at an airport. Spent 4 fantastic and invaluable years as an ATSA and then, with a bit of luck and a lot of help from my friends, went back to Bournemouth. I'm now a valid tower/approach radar ATCO.

- my point being: it can be done! Just stick with it.


Connex -

Agree with most of what you say, except -

What has an ex-cadet done to deserve an ATSA job? Nothing! They haven’t passed an ATSA assessment.They have achieved nothing

Except they would have passed the ATCO assesment - comparable to the ATSA assesment? And they will have done (at least) the "foundation" course (Aerodrome1?) at Bournemouth - again, comparable to the ATSA course? (I've done both)

ATCOs think we [ATSAs] are overpaid, have little or no value/importance, and all we are good for is reading newspapers all day. No support, no respect, no nothing

NOT true at all NATS units!


P-A

[2 sheds]

Partly

Well done for your comments on the more bitter and twisted remarks from Connex. I can assure the latter that all ATCOs whom I know hold any colleagues, ATSA or ATCO, in high regard if they know and perform their job well. It is quite correct that probably a "chopped" ATCO trainee would be well suited to being offered an ATSA post if one were available, and that is a condition of course. However, it is also dependent on suitability and attitude, and is by no means automatic. If such a vacancy is available, I do not see how this affects any existing ATSAs. A relevant consideration is that given the right attitude, actually a chopped ATCO trainee has a far greater insight, for example, for ATC training simulation than an ATSA who has not had that advantage.


Duncan

We know each other well from your last courses! I think that there is a lot of good advice above. If you make noises to Serco, they of course have a number of relatively small units, possibly including the sh*t end of the market like leave reliefs, and also units overseas of course. My spies tell me that Serco are about to lose the contract at Southend (and Biggin Hill?) so overtures to those two would be appropriate direct.

Another thought is - how about getting an AFISO licence? Not sure of the cost, though your (unvalidated) Aerodrome Control rating might give you some dispensation. It would certainly open up many more possibilities - consult SRG.

All the best - "get on with it"!!

2 sheds

[lost in london]

well duncs good to see you were true to your word and that you're trying what you can to find something.
wish you all the best and hope you take into account everyone's suggestions about serco and afiso might not be perfect but it's a good start.
have a good luck at euro control they're still recruiting but you may have problems having already tried a licensing course.
good luck and speak soon l in l