Avoiding Action - revisited
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Avoiding Action - revisited
Had an experience a couple of weeks ago that raised the blood pressure momentarily.
Flying IFR outside controlled airspace and in solid cloud, receiving a RIS from an un-named LARS unit.
The track took me between a big parajump area and a HIRA both of which applied at my level. I would be squeezing between them leaving no more than a mile or three on either side of the aircraft.
With less than 5 miles to run to this little gap, and with no warning the LARS controller broadcast to me:
"callsign, Avoiding Action, left turn 20 degrees. Ermm... to avoid the parachute area".
The area concerned is accurately marked on the GPS and whilst we would have been close to it we certainly were not going to infringe it... and even had we flown straight at it, it would have been a minute or two until we'd entered it... but that's not my question.
I thought that the phrase "Avoiding Action" related only to the need to separate aircraft from one another. I have not heard it used in these cirumstances before. Is it standard or not? My heart missed a beat
Flying IFR outside controlled airspace and in solid cloud, receiving a RIS from an un-named LARS unit.
The track took me between a big parajump area and a HIRA both of which applied at my level. I would be squeezing between them leaving no more than a mile or three on either side of the aircraft.
With less than 5 miles to run to this little gap, and with no warning the LARS controller broadcast to me:
"callsign, Avoiding Action, left turn 20 degrees. Ermm... to avoid the parachute area".
The area concerned is accurately marked on the GPS and whilst we would have been close to it we certainly were not going to infringe it... and even had we flown straight at it, it would have been a minute or two until we'd entered it... but that's not my question.
I thought that the phrase "Avoiding Action" related only to the need to separate aircraft from one another. I have not heard it used in these cirumstances before. Is it standard or not? My heart missed a beat
Last edited by 2Donkeys; 3rd Oct 2003 at 20:43.
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It is not standard and the controller concerned wants his a**e kicked. The whole idea is the phrase is only used for aircraft avoiding action so that people don't become blase about it and react to it accordingly.
A gentle reminder of "are you aware of the parachute area" would have been sufficient.
Not difficult to guess the unit mind you, from the action as well as the scenario
A gentle reminder of "are you aware of the parachute area" would have been sufficient.
Not difficult to guess the unit mind you, from the action as well as the scenario
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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This also raises another issue.
Quite often I am flying on a combination of GPS and pilotage and know exactly where I am and am tracking to avoid airspace by a small margin. Two examples spring to mind; the SW corner of the LHR zone which is conveniently marked by Bagshot mast, and D011 which has a TV mast a mile South.
It is then difficult to know how to react to a statement such as "turn 20deg left to avoid....". I don't like to say "I know what I am doing, ta very much" because I know that the controller is trying to be helpful, and it's nice to know that (s)he is looking out for me, equally, I don't really want to turn 20deg when I am quite confident in my track.
Suggestions/recommendations, please?
W
Quite often I am flying on a combination of GPS and pilotage and know exactly where I am and am tracking to avoid airspace by a small margin. Two examples spring to mind; the SW corner of the LHR zone which is conveniently marked by Bagshot mast, and D011 which has a TV mast a mile South.
It is then difficult to know how to react to a statement such as "turn 20deg left to avoid....". I don't like to say "I know what I am doing, ta very much" because I know that the controller is trying to be helpful, and it's nice to know that (s)he is looking out for me, equally, I don't really want to turn 20deg when I am quite confident in my track.
Suggestions/recommendations, please?
W
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Again - they should be pointing it out - not vectoring you around it.
It all boils down to the age old question - what type of service, what class of airspace. You're responsible for your own navigation normally in these cases, in which case they should be asking you whether you want vectors to avoid and if you don't then that's it - end of story.
So, the suggestion if you get it again is just to say "Happy with my position and own navigation" at which point they should leave it there. NO controller should be upset by your making that statement. If you're outside CAS the vectoring can't be enforced unless you stray inside.
It all boils down to the age old question - what type of service, what class of airspace. You're responsible for your own navigation normally in these cases, in which case they should be asking you whether you want vectors to avoid and if you don't then that's it - end of story.
So, the suggestion if you get it again is just to say "Happy with my position and own navigation" at which point they should leave it there. NO controller should be upset by your making that statement. If you're outside CAS the vectoring can't be enforced unless you stray inside.
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avoiding action - I think not!
Just for info but we quite often have to vector RIS traffic around active para sites (no pun intended), the phrase we use, which i think works all round is :
"C/Sign parajumping a/c left 11 o'clock 10nm manoevring, up to FL150, suggest right turn 15degs to avoid area "
Better or not??
"C/Sign parajumping a/c left 11 o'clock 10nm manoevring, up to FL150, suggest right turn 15degs to avoid area "
Better or not??
aceatco, retired
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I don't think there was any suggestion that the para aircraft was airborne or the area even active. The term 'avoiding action' was entirely inappropriate. A reminder about the area is fine.
VA
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One thing that no one has mentioned... Sometimes the aircraft which are tossing meat missles don't always stay in their areas <G>... It could have been a poorly worded real avoiding action, or as already stated, poor choice of words to keep you well clear of the area... Remember, most GPS's are more accurate than our radar is, especially if you are on one of the fringe areas.
regards
Scott
regards
Scott
