Co-pilot exits the aircraft during the approach for an emergency landing...

[Jet Jockey A4]

At KRDU airport yesterday. The aircraft had a main right gear issue.

Very weird and I can't wait to hear the captain's version of this story.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/mystery-surrounds-mans-death-exits-012938183.html

Body found about 4 hours after the incident.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article263974426.html

[KAPAC]

What’s the odds he was trying to do a inspection of the gear ?

[DaveReidUK]

"A video of the landing shared by ABC 11 appears to show that the plane's right landing gear did not open"

You don't often hear of gear retraction/extension issues on the C212. :O

[bafanguy]

You don't often hear of gear retraction/extension issues on the C212. :O

Yep, that's the first thing that came to my mind too when reading the initial news-heads' comments.

It shouldn't take long to determine what happened to the R MLG. The rest of the story should be pretty interesting.

[JEM60]

KAPAC, That was my thought too.

[Magplug]

Is there even a door on the RHS of the fuselage you could wrestle/inspect the gear from? Through the #2 engine prop-wash?

[hans brinker]

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N497CA/history/20220729/1710Z/NR20/KRDU

that track is interesting, and so is the flight history.

[JanetFlight]

Full video of the landing...no Right Wheel »»»

https://www.wral.com/on-cam-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-rdu/20395379/

[bafanguy]

Is there even a door on the RHS of the fuselage you could wrestle/inspect the gear from? Through the #2 engine prop-wash?

I wondered the same thing. The available pix of the accident airplane aren't close enough to see if there's a door on the right side. Looking at CASA 212 pix in general shows some have a right door and some don't.

In any event, would it even be possible to push such a door open far enough to see anything ?

[Longtimer]

I wondered the same thing. The available pix of the accident airplane aren't close enough to see if there's a door on the right side. Looking at CASA 212 pix in general shows some have a right door and some don't.

In any event, would it even be possible to push such a door open far enough to see anything ? Picture here shows the aircraft in question has the RH door. Man Falls From Cargo Plane After Botched Landing Near Fort Bragg In Bizarre Incident (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/us/man-falls-from-cargo-plane-after-botched-landing-near-fort-bragg-in-bizarre-incident/ar-AA1078BW?cvid=6aa70370372d4c8997a9e71fe97afe7f)

[bafanguy]

Longtimer,

I guess the post-accident photo does show a RH door...if I look hard enough.

But the picture of that airplane, N497CA, being used for parachute stuff also shows a door on the left side. So, maybe it has doors on both sides ?

[DIBO]

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9857248

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/60521_1599798353.jpg

[7p3i7lot]

"It shouldn't take long to determine what happened to the R MLG. The rest of the story should be pretty interesting."

Reported as a hard landing at that 50' by 4000' grass strip. PLane departed and reported the right gear "problem".

"Is there even a door on the RHS of the fuselage you could wrestle/inspect the gear from? Through the #2 engine prop-wash?"

Since it is used for airdrop/parachute training by the mil and other users opening the rear ramp would be the preferred way of viewing the gear rather than a door forward of the props.
But, I think you might be able to see enough from the windows in any case. Leaning out the ramp or any door without a chute or restraint doesn't seem very wise for this young man. RIP.
Another option would obviously be to do a tower fly by to check the gear. Perhaps the Capt was concerned about other damage as well? Should be an interesting debrief. Tragic.

[ehwatezedoing]

What’s the odds he was trying to do a inspection of the gear ?
Could have tried it from the tail gate and lost his grip. The picture below shows it as open.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/639x360/kathrynsreport_ec5b9ee6b4311a9215fd497a88c105771eca6350.jpeg


On a side note, apparently they lost the wheel after a hard landing were they managed to get airborne again.

[bafanguy]

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9857248

That's pretty clear...

[Lonewolf_50]

On a side note, apparently they lost the wheel after a hard landing were they managed to get airborne again. That brings this into a bit more focus. (Instructional flight?) Guess follows:
Out doing touch and goes and touched down a bit too hard, went around, and then ... unfortunate even occurs as the crew attempts to assess damage and how to get down safely with a gear problem.



[EDLB]

Get that box down even with no gear on a grass strip should be no problem. So why bother opening doors or ramps. With enough fuel you can make a tower fly by or let another plane have a look. But without a chute fitted on your back, why open a hatch? Usual procedure learned from WW2, get all the available gear down and make a nice landing as the pilot did. Wonder what the real story is.

[Lazerdog]

The CASA-212 is a fixed gear ship with rugged landing gear for rough strip operations. Very surprising to hear of a gear leg or hub failure. The NTSB analysis will hopefully expose what the hard landing damaged and how.

Checking the gear without a harness is likely the reason for the fall. Sad to see a young aspiring pilot lose his life. RIP

[Eutychus]

The unnamed pilot told Wake County investigators that Crooks leapt from the aircraft before their emergency landing attempt, unsuccessfully aiming toward a body of water.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/north-carolina-pilot-jumps-midair-raleigh-emergency-landing

[Just a Grunt]

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N497CA/history/20220729/1710Z/NR20/KRDU

that track is interesting, and so is the flight history.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/880x827/screenshot_2022_08_01_175106_ba0e7aef6d34eb80911fe0f04951d5a 0ab6bab7f.jpg
saved you a click

[lateott]

Unlikely that the co-pilot jumped from 3800' over no water at 175 MPH. Flight looks straight and level at that point.

(I captured some screenshots but cannot post them. See35°37'50.7"N 78°46'47.0"W
35.630755, -78.779732
and 02:49 PM of flight.}

[Eutychus]

Better article from the local press, which they claim they will update regularly, repeats the 'jump' testimony, without the 'body of water' bit:

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article264036966.html

Edited to add: here's another link from an industry magazine: https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-departure-of-aircraft-in-mid-flight-baffles-authorities/

[cactusbusdrvr]

It’s a contractor that does work for the US spec ops community. That’s why the flight aware tracks are strange. Multiple jump drops that day.

Most likely he dropped the ramp to check the gear. Didn’t put a harness on. Unnecessary and regrettable loss of life.

[DaveReidUK]

Better article from the local press, which they claim they will update regularly, repeats the 'jump' testimony, without the 'body of water' bit:

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article264036966.html

Edited to add: here's another link from an industry magazine: https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-departure-of-aircraft-in-mid-flight-baffles-authorities/

Both articles make a point of stressing that there is no conclusive evidence that eliminates either the "jumped" or "fell" scenarios.

[Eutychus]

Local news channel now reporting use of the word 'jump' by the pilot in communications with the tower:

https://www.wral.com/man-told-rdu-tower-his-co-pilot-jumped-out-of-plane-before-emergency-landing/20400157/

""I am sure the pilot is going to be shaken up," an FAA employee said. "I have no idea.

"He literally just said, 'My pilot just jumped out.'"

No idea if this is what happened, but that's what's being reported.

[First_Principal]

Eutychus , that was a useful link, thanks.

The discussion between tower and emergency services was informative, particularly around the conveyance and determination of co-ordinates in order to identify a ground location.

In the interests of education I brought up Google Earth (given it's likely a tool that is available to most people) and attempted to follow the conversation in order to see how easily I could find the location as if I were at the emergency services end.

I - emphatically - make no negative comment, but from what I heard, and in trying to put myself in the seat, it appeared to me that it would be very useful to have a common co-ordinate system available to both ATC and emergency services, and for those operating each end to have training in that. A QRH for such events would seem to be very useful, even if it did nothing more than state what the co-ordinate format is (and, if necessary, how to convert/input that into a common system).

While this is without a doubt a particularly unusual and sad event, I'd expect such information to be very useful for a range of future possible events - and that it's the sort of communication that may need to go both ways (ie. emergency services communicating co-ordinates to ATC and/or operating aircraft).

FP.

[MPN11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What3words

This would seem to solve part of the problem, provided everyone subscribes to it.

[SASless]

Thurston County Sheriff's Office and Northwest Helicopters used a Radial/Distance system based upon the Olympia Airport.

That allowed for a quick departure of the Helicopter but still required the use of a County Road Map of some kind to find the actual address.

On scene coordinator was done by use of Police/Fire Department/EMS radio frequencies.

Helicopter EMS operations have used similar methods throughout the country as well when responding to Scene Calls such as automobile accidents or remote location accident scenes.

The Navy and Air Force used TACAN for generations.....using bearing and distance data.

[lateott]

The location of the co-pilot's body was ultimately called in from the ground, neighbors hearing the noise "flagged down" the authorities. So it must have been that he was first found, then his finding must have been connected to the search.

If you go by the FAA-to-911 call coordinates, they are off by over 2 miles. That would make for a large search area to find a body as most of it is undeveloped. Without the neighbor report, the search might have gone on for much longer.

[EXDAC]

Most likely he dropped the ramp to check the gear.

If it is true that the rear door cannot be opened from the cockpit, and if it is true that they were landing after a drop, (both previously reported) the door would have been open and the ramp down when the unfortunate pilot left his seat.

It's not unusual for jump aircraft to descend with the door open. There is usually no one left to close it.

[hoistop]

As this is rumour network; I will add to it:
-it seems to me there are two options:
-after botched landing, copilot went to inspect the damage and accidentally fell out ( dont`know where from, as on landing videos/photos there is no ramp/door open)
-after botched landing, that obviously caused damage to the airplane (maybe not only wheel, but considerable more) this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.

At my place, it is MANDATORY for parachute drop pilots to wear a parachute - there was more than one instance in the past, that I am aware of, that a parachuting incident caused an out-of-control situation that required everybody to bail out. (example: due to premature/unintentional opening of parachute while at the door, canopy caught into horizontal stabilizer, jammed elevator, added drag and airplane was diving vertically a few seconds later with elevator controls firmly jammed by fabric, wedged between elevator horn and stabilizer.)

[Eutychus]

this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.That possibility had occurred to me too, especially if he was PF during the first attempted landing (I don't think this has been established).

[AOB9]

According to this video the ramp door was open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBh2IQPwc8o

[DaveReidUK]

According to this video the ramp door was open.

Yes, noted in post #14 (with the same photo).

[Pilot DAR]

At my place, it is MANDATORY for parachute drop pilots to wear a parachute

When I flew jumpers, this was also the case. I can imagine that pilots flying a C212 perhaps think themselves to be flying an airplane large enough to not need that extra layer of safety, that may be being rethought now...

[twb3]

USAF loadmaster training (back in the stone age when I took the course) included an admonition never to approach an open door or ramp in flight without wearing either a harness or a parachute. No idea if either was available to the crew involved.

[7p3i7lot]

Capt says co-pilot was very upset about his hard landing.
NTSB releases initial report on death of Charles Hew Crooks | Raleigh News & Observer (newsobserver.com) (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article264404301.html)

b

[Carbon Bootprint]

Here's the preliminary report: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/105636/pdf

[hoistop]

It seems that the option 2 in my post #31 was the correct one. So sad.

-after botched landing, that obviously caused damage to the airplane (maybe not only wheel, but considerable more) this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.

[albatross]

There was an incident in Canada many years ago ( mid 60s..early 70s . I was told about it by one of the folks involved.
Helicopter on a geological exploration contract goes missing.
Search of the planned flight path finds the female passenger dead with horrific head injuries.
Further search finds helicopter many miles from expected flight path completely destroyed, rotor barely turning upon impact, no fire, pilot deceased.
The pilot and the female geologist had started a relationship during the summer.
From evidence such as the location of the body and skid marks it appeared she had exited the helicopter, removed her equipment from the cargo rack moved slightly uphill and had been stuck by the blade tip.
It was supposed that the pilot, in guilt, shock and grief, had taken off and flown around in a daze until the helicopter ran out of fuel.
The pilot did not lower the collective to enter autorotation and the aircraft impacted the terrain in a steep, nose-down attitude.
Other people in the camp indicated that the 2 were very happy together and were making plans for a future together.
A very sad case.

[BFSGrad]

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The airplane’s encounter with windshear during landing, which resulted in a hard landing and separation of the right main landing gear, and the pilot’s subsequent decision to leave his seat in flight, which resulted in his fall from the airplane.

NTSB Final Report - CASA C212, N497CA (https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/105636/pdf)

[iggy]

Any idea why the Spanish Civil Aviation would have been involved in the investigation? A Spanish name, from Madrid, is listed at the end of the report as an additional participating person.

Thanks!

[Del Prado]

Any idea why the Spanish Civil Aviation would have been involved in the investigation? A Spanish name, from Madrid, is listed at the end of the report as an additional participating person.

Thanks!

Representing the country of manufacture? It was a CASA C212.

[iggy]

Representing the country of manufacture? It was a CASA C212.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks!!