Qantas...Post COVID

[Fujiroll76]

It’s been confirmed that the Oct 2021 ramp up will include 40% of pre COVID levels, increasing to 70% in the following 12 months to Oct 2022. This indicates the 787/330 will be at 100% capacity with the remaining 30% set aside for the potential 380 return 12 months later (Nov 2023)

insert a 20% reduction in flight crew who took VR / ER who won’t be returning.
insert the LH crew who are starting to transition to SH as of next BP

Is it just me or should some serious recruitment, be at the very least being discussed at the round table...
12% of the list are greater than 60 years as it stands today..most are unlikely to be around come 350 ULR ops.

Theres cause for optimism.

[Climb150]

I would like to share your enthusiasm but I doubt Australians would be ok with people coming into Australia without quarantine regardless of a negative CoVID test.

Even with the vaccine, some people will refuse to take it and you will still get very small outbreaks in the community. People will still get sick and some will dye.

[WillieTheWimp]

Yes but Covid is here for the next 10+ years. From October onwards things will be about as good as it gets. Australians will eventually get over it unless they want to live in a life of perpetual lockdowns and restrictions.

[ScepticalOptomist]

I would like to share your enthusiasm but I doubt Australians would be ok with people coming into Australia without quarantine regardless of a negative CoVID test.

Even with the vaccine, some people will refuse to take it and you will still get very small outbreaks in the community. People will still get sick and some will dye.

With most of those most at risk of serious complications / death vaccinated - ie the elderly, why wouldn’t we be ok to open up? This notion of zero risk or no cases is ridiculous at best. With sufficient numbers vaccinated CV will be no worse in practice than the common cold. That’s what the data from UK / Israel is showing.

Time to stop being alarmist and go back to being pramatic.

I think you are right Fujiroll76 - things will be busier than most expect - don’t be afraid to be optimistic.

[wheels_down]

Too early to call. Need to come back mid year to see what state the world and vaccine effectiveness is in.

I understand Alan’s eagerness, his cash burn on that half of the business is ugly, needs to push the agenda to get his operation moving. Virgin does not have any cash burn on that side of the business anymore.

What’s the priority here, Qantas’ balance sheet or International border outbreaks?

The Population of this land doesn’t give two ****s about his financials. The Feds will also take a cautious approach, with recent drama’s in Canberra and a upcoming election, slow and steady approach will be the answer.

[LapSap]

It’s been confirmed that the Oct 2021 ramp up will include 40% of pre COVID levels, increasing to 70% in the following 12 months to Oct 2022. This indicates the 787/330 will be at 100% capacity with the remaining 30% set aside for the potential 380 return 12 months later (Nov 2023)

insert a 20% reduction in flight crew who took VR / ER who won’t be returning.
insert the LH crew who are starting to transition to SH as of next BP

Is it just me or should some serious recruitment, be at the very least being discussed at the round table...
12% of the list are greater than 60 years as it stands today..most are unlikely to be around come 350 ULR ops.

Theres cause for optimism.

Good luck with that.
Anybody that is ‘confirming’ anything at this point is seriously deluded.
IATA originally forecast 50% of 2019 demand by year end.
As of their most recent prediction, taking into account variants, it’s now as low as 13% .
Not too sure anybody is going to be flying around empty planes just so they can quote 100% capacity.

[Ngineer]

With most of those most at risk of serious complications / death vaccinated - ie the elderly, why wouldn’t we be ok to open up? This notion of zero risk or no cases is ridiculous at best. With sufficient numbers vaccinated CV will be no worse in practice than the common cold. That’s what the data from UK / Israel is showing.

Time to stop being alarmist and go back to being pramatic.

I think you are right Fujiroll76 - things will be busier than most expect - don’t be afraid to be optimistic.


Totally agree, problem is that no politician would put his or her own ass on the line if public sentiment shows that people are still scared of this very contagious form of flu (regardless of the impact to society or the economy).

The amount of healthy and the least at risk individuals scaremongering about COVID will slow recovery, regardless of vaccination progress.

[cattletruck]

Don't forget that protection from C-19 after having the vaccine administered only lasts for a few months, and vaccination rollout to the masses has been observed to be very difficult and slow, it's not really working properly at the scale needed to quash a virus.

Unless C-19 fizzles out by mutating into something less fatal, this virus will be with us for a while until such a time we eventually develop an easier self administered solution than a vaccine, and preferably not by dumping something in the water supply.

I can't see international flights resuming for while, there is too much hype and paranoia already invested in keeping us grounded.

I may invest in a boat instead - and call her Endeavour.

[MickG0105]

It’s been confirmed that the Oct 2021 ramp up will include 40% of pre COVID levels, increasing to 70% in the following 12 months to Oct 2022. This indicates the 787/330 will be at 100% capacity with the remaining 30% set aside for the potential 380 return 12 months later (Nov 2023)

insert a 20% reduction in flight crew who took VR / ER who won’t be returning.
insert the LH crew who are starting to transition to SH as of next BP

Is it just me or should some serious recruitment, be at the very least being discussed at the round table...
12% of the list are greater than 60 years as it stands today..most are unlikely to be around come 350 ULR ops.

Theres cause for optimism.
There's generally cause for optimism just as there's generally cause for pessimism when looking at the same circumstance - it depends on your perspective and appetite for risk.

We're about to see a preview of how robust any meaningful recovery is likely to be courtesy of the 'Trans-Tasman Bubble' - an extraordinarily poor but perhaps prescient choice of words to be sure, bubbles being fragile things needing only one prick to burst them. Any old how, semantics aside, if the Trans-Tasman quarantine-free travel zone holds up then you can probably start charting a path back to something vaguely approaching 2019 levels over the next 9-12 months.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Don't forget that protection from C-19 after having the vaccine administered only lasts for a few months, and vaccination rollout to the masses has been observed to be very difficult and slow, it's not really working properly at the scale needed to quash a virus.


Not sure what you’re reading but the data coming out of places with vaccinations rolling out would suggest the exact opposite.

UK and Israel scientists saying initial thoughts of having to have boosters every 12 months or so was wrong and that it looks like one off vaccine will do the trick. Not only is it preventing disease for those vaccinated, but it looks like it prevents the spread as well.

[cattletruck]

ScepticalOptomist, all I know is that little is still known about C-19. I asked the question if someone who has been vaccinated can contract the virus - the answer I got was yes but symptoms will be less severe in most cases. Then I asked if someone who has been vaccinated and contracts the virus and is asymptomatic can spread the virus - the answer I got was we don't know for sure, but most likely yes.

[halfmoon]

Unfortunately I don't believe the politicians will ever open up the borders. They can't tolerate a single case of covid in the community. Quarantine is here to stay. Australians will be banned from free travel for years to come. Best hope is to have pacific Island and kiwi bubble.
Get used to it...vaccine is false hope. Does anyone really think the vast majority of the population will get vaccinated.

[Fujiroll76]

There’s no doubt in my mind that come Nov the borders will open. Whether that comes with 14 days quarantine is yet to be seen.

The government won’t waste a good opening before xmas and the influx of passengers that come with it.

The US will hit heard immunity by August and the UK by June. The two big markets of the Qantas Network.

IATA’s 13% doesn’t relate to where Qantas will be. It’s an overall expectation which will have a bigger impact on the larger airlines. 40% seems reasonable for QF.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

One can only hope the SO positions when available go to internal applicants , would live together out of my other QF group job especially for same pay and blue sky from then on .

[Chairmans Lounge]

Get used to it...vaccine is false hope. Does anyone really think the vast majority of the population will get vaccinated.

If Alan continues to insist on mandatory vaccination to fly QF then this may prove to be problematic for him.

[Fonz121]

If Alan continues to insist on mandatory vaccination to fly QF then this may prove to be problematic for him.

Give it a rest. About 80% of Australians have indicated they will be getting the vaccine with only 9% saying they definitely won’t. I hardly think mandatory vaccines to travel internationally will have an impact on demand. Plus the types of people who don’t believe in science don’t tend to travel much anyway.

[Keg]

Is it just me or should some serious recruitment, be at the very least being discussed at the round table...

12% of the list are greater than 60 years as it stands today..most are unlikely to be around come 350 ULR ops.

Not sure where you got 12%. I count 109 pilots aged 60 or above as at 31 Mar 2021. 2027 pilots are currently on the seniority list. That's closer to 5%.

There are a couple of pinch points coming. First is the lack of A330 Captains when ramping that fleet up. They will need to come from somewhere and I suspect part of the reason why 737 training has recommenced. A 747 RIN won't even touch the sides of addressing the 56 A330 Captains that left with VR/ER.

The next pinch point is the A380. If it returns then I suspect 7-8 aeroplanes worth of flying (and probably 9 jets to allow a spare given they're fully written down). If it doesn't come back until November 2023 they are going to need 30-40 Captains trained on that fleet at roughly the same time as the A350 may be coming down range requiring crew to be trained. That results in a scenario where you are training people onto the A330 to release 30 Captains to the A330 as well as trying to train another 30 Captains on top to release A330 Captains for A350 training- at least in the initial stages. If they bring the A380 back prior to November 2023 (which I reckon will occur more towards the end of next year.... though hopefully closer to mid next year) then that certainly decreases that training pinch at the end of 2023.

The other question is A380 crew. If that aeroplane is coming back before the end of 2022 you wouldn't bother sending any crew across to the A330. If it's not coming back until November 2023 you may decide to bring a bunch of A380 pilots to the A330 for 18 months from Feb next year. This won't start to become more clear until later this year when we start to hear about future quarantine requirements post vaccine roll out.

There may also be a few more 787s somewhere in that mix too.

So whilst I don't see the need for recruiting this year, from the middle of 2022 onward and through to when the A350 is introduced could be quite busy for training on all fleets.


Theres cause for optimism.

You bet! Certainly light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think it's an oncoming train but we won't be sure of that for a while yet.

[Keg]

Unfortunately I don't believe the politicians will ever open up the borders. They can't tolerate a single case of covid in the community.

I'm starting to see 'shaping' discussions around this point. Certainly the questions of how Australia should respond to a less deadly Covid (if vaccinated) are starting to be asked by business leaders and some politicians.

Does anyone really think the vast majority of the population will get vaccinated.

Yes, I do. If they ever want to leave Australia shores they will. People get vaccinated for yellow fever if they want to travel for Africa, they'll certainly get vaccinated for Covid if they want to go to (or come home from) Bali/ Viet Nam/ the USA/ Europe, etc.

[Fujiroll76]

Not sure where you got 12%. I count 109 pilots aged 60 or above as at 31 Mar 2021. 2027 pilots are currently on the seniority list. That's closer to 5%.

.


I stand corrected. Was looking at the old list 😑


The next 12 months are pivotal in how QF recover from this. Also worth remembering how the world was 12 months ago to where we are today.

There’s certainly a bright light ahead.

[ruprecht]

The other question is A380 crew.

The real question is not where they end up going, so much as when do they get paid again?

The company seems to be linking the fate of the crew to the fate of the aeroplane, which you have quite rightly separated. The real test will be when borders reopen and they keep the A380 grounded.

[goodonyamate]

Not sure where you got 12%. I count 109 pilots aged 60 or above as at 31 Mar 2021. 2027 pilots are currently on the seniority list. That's closer to 5%.

There are a couple of pinch points coming. First is the lack of A330 Captains when ramping that fleet up. They will need to come from somewhere and I suspect part of the reason why 737 training has recommenced. A 747 RIN won't even touch the sides of addressing the 56 A330 Captains that left with VR/ER.

The next pinch point is the A380. If it returns then I suspect 7-8 aeroplanes worth of flying (and probably 9 jets to allow a spare given they're fully written down). If it doesn't come back until November 2023 they are going to need 30-40 Captains trained on that fleet at roughly the same time as the A350 may be coming down range requiring crew to be trained. That results in a scenario where you are training people onto the A330 to release 30 Captains to the A330 as well as trying to train another 30 Captains on top to release A330 Captains for A350 training- at least in the initial stages. If they bring the A380 back prior to November 2023 (which I reckon will occur more towards the end of next year.... though hopefully closer to mid next year) then that certainly decreases that training pinch at the end of 2023.

The other question is A380 crew. If that aeroplane is coming back before the end of 2022 you wouldn't bother sending any crew across to the A330. If it's not coming back until November 2023 you may decide to bring a bunch of A380 pilots to the A330 for 18 months from Feb next year. This won't start to become more clear until later this year when we start to hear about future quarantine requirements post vaccine roll out.

There may also be a few more 787s somewhere in that mix too.

So whilst I don't see the need for recruiting this year, from the middle of 2022 onward and through to when the A350 is introduced could be quite busy for training on all fleets.



You bet! Certainly light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think it's an oncoming train but we won't be sure of that for a while yet.


you might find that training start dates were given to those crew with deferred slots on the 737 as a certain LH captain wanted all slots thrown back into the mix for the senior crew to nab. By doing it now I’m told it avoids the need for agreement to defer again.happy to be corrected but given the person involved it would t be surprising at all.

[Keg]

goodonyamate, I suspect that was considered more an ‘added bonus’ rather than primary reason.

[The_Equaliser]

Why is there any SH training at all? As it stands there are currently crew stood down in Syd and Mel, and quite few still below MGH. The threshold for training in the EA has not been met. What deal has AIPA done and why have they not consulted with the SH members prior to varying the EA? Have they agreed to train into the future and keep the SH crew at MGH? The new AIPA has been less than transparent.

[Fujiroll76]

Well this is what Professor Murphy said two days ago
“I’m hopeful that pretty good international travel will happen next year, but it’s just too early to tell,”
Doesn't this mean that international travel "might" start early 2022 ?

Some of the posts above the normal Aussie ott superlative speak , the A380s are coming back , when the A350s arrive - they haven't even been ordered
, training , promotion , recruitment - very excitable talk. It's all going gangbusters - gee we do the blow hard part well in Australia

Right now domestic RPT uplift is about 20% & international is 0%. If domestic is at a steady 50% two years in that would be excellent & I think getting international
back to 50% two years after commencement would also be fantastic (but that is 2024)

Does anyone really think that Australia will open to USA , EU in 2022 ?

Do you really think guys WA /Qld premiers would allow that , not to mention the flighty fellow in Vic

I'd be happy if we just got to NZ & 4 or 5 countries in Asia

You literally have no clue.

February 2020 - 1800 domestic flights / day
this bottomed out at 220

Fast forward to last week - The domestic market saw 1500 flights.

Fair to say it’s recovering nicely. International will be the same albeit at a slower rate.

Australia will open to UK and USA by November. Quarantine requirements are still to be seen. With both countries well over 80% vaccinated by then, why shouldn’t there be quarantine free travel??

[Fujiroll76]

Why is there any SH training at all? As it stands there are currently crew stood down in Syd and Mel, and quite few still below MGH. The threshold for training in the EA has not been met. What deal has AIPA done and why have they not consulted with the SH members prior to varying the EA? Have they agreed to train into the future and keep the SH crew at MGH? The new AIPA has been less than transparent.

Maybe you didn’t pay your $20 / month 😂

incredible...that’s for another day

[The_Equaliser]

Flew probably 12 Syd-Mel sectors in the last week. Half full and not sustainable. They recovery is thin at best.

[The_Equaliser]

Fully paid and member 25years. Answer the question, or are you a no nothing ******.

[Fujiroll76]

Fully paid and member 25years. Answer the question, or are you a no nothing ******.

If you’re a member then why don’t you ask AIPA instead of here? 🤷🏼

Surely after 25 years you would know how to consult a union on any EA breaches.

[Telfer86]

I would be looking at the data from Bitre , the pax carried , not sure how the number of aircraft taking off has anything to do with
pax numbers

Think Jan/Feb 2021 will be 20 to 25% , tops 30% of 2019

We have a long way to go with domestic, lots of Aussie CEOs are saying they pretty much have a no travel policy atm

"It's been confirmed October ramp up will be 40%" - you better get QF to instruct PM & Murphy how & when international travel is going to work
Must be some law I haven't heard of that declares QF execs as final arbiters re: opening international borders after a pandemic

Why oh why do we have this relentless blow hard / boasting stuff from QF execs ? (back to 80% domestic by July 2020 etc etc etc)

Surely the ignore reality approach creates unrealistic expectations from staff & then subsequent disappointment

[The_Equaliser]

Did AIPA provide any information about the decision to resume training?

[Keg]

Why is there any SH training at all? As it stands there are currently crew stood down in Syd and Mel, and quite few still below MGH. The threshold for training in the EA has not been met. What deal has AIPA done and why have they not consulted with the SH members prior to varying the EA? Have they agreed to train into the future and keep the SH crew at MGH? The new AIPA has been less than transparent.

All 737 crew are stood up from 29 March. I’m not sure the planned hours but I think it’s forecast to exceed MGH and increase on top of that in the coming months. 737 hours are forecast to exceed pre Covid levels before the end of this year. (Whether or not this occurs is another thing depending on what happens with borders/ vaccines/ etc).

Qantas decided on their own to start these courses and AIPA has done no ‘deal’ regarding them. Given that there is no variation to the SHEA (not that a variation can occur without members voting on it anyway..... which I’m sure every mainline pilot knows by now) I’m not sure what consultation you expect to have taken place? If you’re concerned about what the company has done email the COM and voice your concerns. Ranting on PPRUNE about a SHEA variation that doesn’t exist certainly isn’t going to achieve anything.

[Climb150]

You literally have no clue.

February 2020 - 1800 domestic flights / day
this bottomed out at 220

Fast forward to last week - The domestic market saw 1500 flights.

Fair to say it’s recovering nicely. International will be the same albeit at a slower rate.

Australia will open to UK and USA by November. Quarantine requirements are still to be seen. With both countries well over 80% vaccinated by then, why shouldn’t there be quarantine free travel??

What was the load factor on those flights? If you don't know then you have no clue. Flying around empty airplanes isn't a recovery.

As for quarantine free travel, politicians do what keeps them getting re elected, not what is best for the country.

[Dannyboy39]

Flew probably 12 Syd-Mel sectors in the last week. Half full and not sustainable. They recovery is thin at best.
As someone looking from afar, how does this route sustain so many flights? Surely having 50% LFs are not unusual?

[goodonyamate]

I’m not sure of how the training is happening. However if training early is the only way to stop those slots being thrown back for bidding, and it gets people who actually wanted to be on the 737 back to work, rather than allowing the super senior who will just go back to the 380 when it comes back anyway come across, I’m happy with that. It’s another handful of people working who would otherwise be stood down.

[SixDemonBag]

Did AIPA provide any information about the decision to resume training?

Mate, the slots were originally advertised at a time when divisors on the 73 triggered training, in accordance with the Award.

These same slots were deferred 12 months, which was approved by AIPA (in 2020), in accordance with the Award.

Can you show me where is says that divisors have to REMAIN above the trigger in order to continue training people? I can’t find it.

How do you feel left out by AIPA?

[Street garbage]

Training is happening because of forward projection of flying, with a net increase of 737 hours (from pre- COVID) of over 10% after July- it's only a forecast, grain of salt, nobody knows, blah blah..
There is training now even thought he long term trigger (is 68hrs? or 73?) has not been met, because there is nothing written in EBA8 as that being a requirement, therefore it it the Company's interpretation...so those with an allocated slot or those who were already training when it stopped will be recommencing on Monday (good luck all!).
All 737 are stood up for BP 3415....Rosters are out in the next two days, Slack is saying about 62-64 as divisor.
.....As for the above statement about Load Factors..depends which sector. I flew some CNS & BNE sectors last week- they were ALL over 80%, so much so that the A330 is slated for CNS flying next BP. Have a look at FIDS. Melbourne and Perth are soft, people have low risk tolerance now, and don't want 14 days isolation at minimal notice.

I am going to say this again, there is many people on this RUMOUR network who hate QF, who have zero idea about our EA's or IR. If you don't know, don't come here looking for answers- ring your Base Manager, ring AIPA, ring a mate on the COM (or not), before you read the BS here.

[Chad Gates]

because there is nothing written in EBA8 as that being a requirement

It’s in the integration award, not the EA.


here is what it says:
9 - INCREASE IN SHORT HAUL PILOT ESTABLISHMENT
In deciding whether an increased establishment of pilots on short haul aircraft is necessary, the determinant factor will be a divisor of not less than 73 pay hours per month taken on average over a projected period of one year, with due allowance for leave.

[Beer Baron]

Telfer just wants to spout his incessant negativity. His predictions of mass sackings amongst crew are looking more and more foolish by the day, so now he is making up stats about the flying that is happening.

As this discussion largely revolves around the pilots getting back to work (or even being recruited), then pax stats are NOT the important issue. The number of flights and stood up crew is the determining factor and they are looking great for 737 crew and for those soon to start 737 training.

Qantas used to make half a billion dollars profit flying domestically with ~80% load factor. Is it hard to believe they would cover their costs flying at 50%? This gets people back to work, protects/grows market share and offsets aircraft fixed costs.

Things are looking up at long last, some just can’t bare to admit it.

[Fujiroll76]

What was the load factor on those flights? If you don't know then you have no clue. Flying around empty airplanes isn't a recovery.

As for quarantine free travel, politicians do what keeps them getting re elected, not what is best for the country.

As per the town hall this morning. Load factors are considerably high with Jetstar in the mid 80’s.

it’s been said before, any route will be flown if it makes a $1. A half full SY-ML must tick that.

[Wingspar]

Alan also wants 70%.

He will not sit back and let the others take share.

He will throw capacity at it. Just as VA will do with additional 73’s.

Good for jobs all round!

[jrfsp]

Further capacity at this point only further dilutes yields (particularly with a lack corporate demand at the moment) and is certainly not sustainable. The grab at market share will end with a casualty.

[Keg]

The grab at market share will end with a casualty.

Probably. Of Qantas, Rex, Virgin and Jetstar who are you putting your money on it to be?

[WillieTheWimp]

Probably. Of Qantas, Rex, Virgin and Jetstar who are you putting your money on it to be?

I think VA’s mouth is writing cheques its fleet can’t cash and Rex plans to bring a knife to a gunfight.

[Lookleft]

But Rex is using a plastic knife that you get in kiddie pirate costumes.

[blubak]

I would like to share your enthusiasm but I doubt Australians would be ok with people coming into Australia without quarantine regardless of a negative CoVID test.

Even with the vaccine, some people will refuse to take it and you will still get very small outbreaks in the community. People will still get sick and some will dye.
I think we just want as much care as possible when borders open again,everybody wants to see money being spent by tourists & as many people back at work as possible.
The anti-vaccers will always be around,they are anti everything(most of them anyway) so in reality not much notice will be taken of them.
As i see it,as long as the majority are aware of what is required to keep us all safe,the rest shpuld fall into place.

[Climb150]

I think we just want as much care as possible when borders open again,everybody wants to see money being spent by tourists & as many people back at work as possible.
The anti-vaccers will always be around,they are anti everything(most of them anyway) so in reality not much notice will be taken of them.
As i see it,as long as the majority are aware of what is required to keep us all safe,the rest shpuld fall into place.

The govt will run focus groups to decide which decision gets them another term in office. That is the path they will take.

[ExtraShot]

The signs elsewhere are slowly showing positives also...


https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2021/03/get-jabbed-get-flight/

[aviation_enthus]

Further capacity at this point only further dilutes yields (particularly with a lack corporate demand at the moment) and is certainly not sustainable. The grab at market share will end with a casualty.

To early to call “the weakest link”.

But given how the last capacity war ended, I’d say it might also comes down to who blinks first....

If QF have taken on a lot of debt through COVID and then lose money again, they’ll have to call it quits on the “line in the sand” eventually (but they’re still stronger than Rex/VA).

If VA are aggressive and Bain etc want see results that convince them to tip in more cash, they might end up back in a sustainable position. But last time around, they ran out of cash before QF.

Rex are the more unknown IMHO. They have a decent war chest for now and (arguably) lower costs (wages and lease fees) for their small fleet. They also have a large regional network to generate cash to help with the current aggressive expansion. Buuuuuuttt, how long will their cash last and will the new investors (PAG) be willing to put more in?

[SHVC]

To early to call “the weakest link”.

But given how the last capacity war ended, I’d say it might also comes down to who blinks first....

If QF have taken on a lot of debt through COVID and then lose money again, they’ll have to call it quits on the “line in the sand” eventually (but they’re still stronger than Rex/VA).

If VA are aggressive and Bain etc want see results that convince them to tip in more cash, they might end up back in a sustainable position. But last time around, they ran out of cash before QF.

Rex are the more unknown IMHO. They have a decent war chest for now and (arguably) lower costs (wages and lease fees) for their small fleet. They also have a large regional network to generate cash to help with the current aggressive expansion. Buuuuuuttt, how long will their cash last and will the new investors (PAG) be willing to put more in?

Expansion you mean the 737? Didn't Sharpie say somewhere that the regional and jet are completely separate entity's? wouldn't want to raise eyebrows given all the government handouts they received which was more than QF and VA got to keep the turbo prop operation viable.

The predatory Sydney Canberra flights they plan to launch with their SAABs is laughable, this route is mostly business and politicians which neither will never travel on a SAAB unless they're going to Bourke and the RAAF jets are all broken.

[Wingspar]

It’s been confirmed that the Oct 2021 ramp up will include 40% of pre COVID levels, increasing to 70% in the following 12 months to Oct 2022. This indicates the 787/330 will be at 100% capacity with the remaining 30% set aside for the potential 380 return 12 months later (Nov 2023)

insert a 20% reduction in flight crew who took VR / ER who won’t be returning.
insert the LH crew who are starting to transition to SH as of next BP

Is it just me or should some serious recruitment, be at the very least being discussed at the round table...
12% of the list are greater than 60 years as it stands today..most are unlikely to be around come 350 ULR ops.

Theres cause for optimism.

I think there are good signs for A380 crew too?

If the 787/A330 flying comes back as suggested then there will have to be more training. That would mean advertised slots. That would indicate useful work? A380 crew could bid for them, even Captains could use their golden bid to bid back at the company’s discretion. Most would have the seniority to be awarded a slot.

If the company refuse then how can the company argue ‘no useful work’ and continue to stand A380 down?

[Keg]

Will an A380 pilot want to burn a ‘bid back’ to get back to flying 12 months earlier? The consequence is they can’t return to the A380 and may not be able to use their bid back on the 737 approaching 65.

[Wingspar]

It’s a personal thing I suppose?

If they can last another two years on Annual leave then that’s great!

[ScepticalOptomist]

Will an A380 pilot want to burn a ‘bid back’ to get back to flying 12 months earlier? The consequence is they can’t return to the A380 and may not be able to use their bid back on the 737 approaching 65.

I’d say most would burn it in a heartbeat!

[The The]

There is no way International flights (above current repatriation flight) will be ramping up in October. This was all predicated on having the vaccine rollout completed by end October. The vaccine rollout is proving a dismal failure (already 3.4m doses behind planned) and the latest blood clot scare campaign will put things behind even more. More and more people will wait for the Pfizer or Moderna of which Australia cannot get anywhere near enough, probably for years. I think there will be millions of doses of Astrazeneca left on the shelves, with millions content forgo the vaccine and just keep international borders shut.

For states like WA, they'll be lucky to have free international travel before 2023.

My best guess is that by October, we might have a fairly reliable Tasman bubble at best and hopefully more sensible state border controls.

[lc_461]

For states like WA, they'll be lucky to have free international travel before 2023.



Raises the point - can 'militant' states like WA go against the Commonwealth in the opening of their federal border? Eg Commonwealth removes restrictions on international travel, can WA refuse to allow entry into PER via that route?

[MelbourneFlyer]

It’s been confirmed that the Oct 2021 ramp up will include 40% of pre COVID levels, increasing to 70% in the following 12 months to Oct 2022. This indicates the 787/330 will be at 100% capacity with the remaining 30% set aside for the potential 380 return 12 months later (Nov 2023)

Confirmed where and by whom? If you're talking about anything Qantas has officially announced, October 2021 sees the nomination and very subject-to-reality return of almost all international flights bar some cities and bar the A380s, which would seem to represent more than 40% of capacity, or are you talking about estimated demand, ie not the number of seats flying but the number of bums on seats?

[Fujiroll76]

Confirmed where and by whom? If you're talking about anything Qantas has officially announced, October 2021 sees the nomination and very subject-to-reality return of almost all international flights bar some cities and bar the A380s, which would seem to represent more than 40% of capacity, or are you talking about estimated demand, ie not the number of seats flying but the number of bums on seats?

Andrew David a few town halls ago. This is the realistic schedule come October. Ie services flown not capacity expected.

[Australopithecus]

I think that the public and their politicians will now only accept a zero covid risk. Unless the Federal government steps in with a compulsory vaccination program, 14 day quarantines are going to be with us for a very long time. If there isn’t a very high proportion of vaccinated population then we will continue to have sporadic cases and sporadic shutdowns and lock-outs. That will kill any demand for much flying across any borders, domestic included.

[AerialPerspective]

I would like to share your enthusiasm but I doubt Australians would be ok with people coming into Australia without quarantine regardless of a negative CoVID test.

Even with the vaccine, some people will refuse to take it and you will still get very small outbreaks in the community. People will still get sick and some will dye.

What colour do you think they will dye????

[AerialPerspective]

Raises the point - can 'militant' states like WA go against the Commonwealth in the opening of their federal border? Eg Commonwealth removes restrictions on international travel, can WA refuse to allow entry into PER via that route?

Yes. s92 of the Constitution guarantees free trade and freedom of movement between the States - however, the same provision exists in the United States' Constitution on which ours is heavily based (because there were no other notionally English speaking federations around at the time except the USA) as does another provision taken from the US Constitution, that being that the Commonwealth shall ensure that every State gives "full faith and credit" to the laws, acts and regulations and public records of every other State".

I believe the 'full faith and credit' clause (s118) as it is called, means that every other State and the Commonwealth must accept and give full faith and credit to acts, laws and regulations that a State adopts in the interests, in this case, of public health which is well within the purview of State powers.

This is why Clive was never going to win his stupid case, because if WA passed a law imposing a tariff on movement of persons and goods into WA, then that would be a clear breach of s92 and unconstitutional because trade and commerce is not a State power as the Constitution bars any interference with it. BUT, s118 is what allows the State(s) to impose entry restrictions based on laws and regulations that they have the Constitutional power to enact and enforce.

Long explanation I know but that's my understanding of why the States can continue to impose these restrictions.

*EDIT*

I just re-read your question - interesting - but I think the answer is still yes. WA refused to let a ship dock at Fremantle at the beginning of the crisis. I believe refusal of landing would come within the State's rights - it is probably one for a constitutional expert though because external affairs is a Commonwealth responsibility which I would suggest includes the regulation of shipping etc (as aviation in the sense of powered flight didn't exist when the constitution was written). The Commonwealth has the power to regulate and make laws for emigration, immigration and - I think it actually says - "the naturalisation of aliens". But I would think that just means they can make laws for it - it doesn't mean they can force a State to accept a vessel if they don't want to - just as they can't force WA, SA and Queensland to all adopt Standard Gauge for all their railways.

[blubak]

Andrew David a few town halls ago. This is the realistic schedule come October. Ie services flown not capacity expected.
Big words from the little 'been everywhere' man.
Did he thank everybody before he spoke🤭

[ruprecht]

I’d say most would burn it in a heartbeat!
Agreed.

After listening to a number of webinars, it’s clear that this situation is taking a considerable mental toll on some. :(

[Wingspar]

Did he thank everybody before he spoke🤭

Thanks!
That’s a very good question.
Number one on slido!

[TurningTheSpanners]

Raises the point - can 'militant' states like WA go against the Commonwealth in the opening of their federal border? Eg Commonwealth removes restrictions on international travel, can WA refuse to allow entry into PER via that route?

Whatever the technical and legal answer may be, the "practical" answer is Yes.

"All persons entering WA must quarantine at an approved facility, currently the only approved facility is at Ginbata Airport GBW / YGIA."

Followed by....

"Persons must pay the cost of 14 days tent quarantine, currently at $1,000 / day."

And if airlines didn't get the hint.......

"This also applies to all airline crew but due to the additional risk all airline crew must quarantine for 28 days"

As my Papa says, "There's more than one way to skin a cat".

TTS

[pistonpuffer]

Was up at Tamworth and the talk is that they are bringing in overseas ( Asian ) pilots as FOs on the Dash using 457 visas.
I was working as a builders labourer ( gratis ) during the full lockdowns for my son in laws new house build and the other builders labourer was an Emirates 380 FO. He was a very hard worker and I am sure would have taken any aviation job going after his Emirates stand down.

[Going Nowhere]

Was up at Tamworth and the talk is that they are bringing in overseas ( Asian ) pilots as FOs on the Dash using 457 visas.
I was working as a builders labourer ( gratis ) during the full lockdowns for my son in laws new house build and the other builders labourer was an Emirates 380 FO. He was a very hard worker and I am sure would have taken any aviation job going after his Emirates stand down.

In regards to bringing in 457 visas but I’m sorry what a load of crap.

There is absolutely no talk of that happening. Recruitment is planned for later this year and most likely will be to fill in MEL and SYD spots initially.

There are plenty of locals who would be more than suitable. QLink will also most likely issue an internal EOI first, just like NJS and Network have done.

There is also bound to be a few cadets from the QFPP academy who are due to finish soon and those who have made it through the selection process could possibly be offered a spot.

[Fonz121]

An EOI for dash spots in ML and SY has already gone out to Jetstar Wide-body pilots.

[pistonpuffer]

Don't totally understand, are you saying that will not happen?

[Fujiroll76]

Don't totally understand, are you saying that will not happen?


Correct...that will not happen.

[Fujiroll76]

Rumours circulating that an EOI is imminent for 787 & 330 SO’s to return from LWOP early.

747 RIN completed with ground schools scheduled for next month.

All who took LWOP will be offered to return prior to end of year.

With a mix of repat and potential travel bubbles, all are required to meet the demand

[SixDemonBag]

Bring ‘em back and CR them! :}

[Foxxster]

Release from Qantas this morning.

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/CommSec/commsec-node-api/1.0/event/document/1410-02363725-23UNI2MLQSDUT9GNASTDFOA354/pdf?access_token=0007Qj6g5L1kwgjW6FG0Biigg3B3

[ScepticalOptomist]

Release from Qantas this morning.

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/CommSec/commsec-node-api/1.0/event/document/1410-02363725-23UNI2MLQSDUT9GNASTDFOA354/pdf?access_token=0007Qj6g5L1kwgjW6FG0Biigg3B3

Things are looking better every day.

Stay positive folks - don’t let the negative Nancy’s on here stifle your optimism.

edit: link changed - https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-recovery-gathers-speed/

[Chris2303]

Release from Qantas this morning.

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/CommSec/commsec-node-api/1.0/event/document/1410-02363725-23UNI2MLQSDUT9GNASTDFOA354/pdf?access_token=0007Qj6g5L1kwgjW6FG0Biigg3B3

This is what that URL is giving me{
"error": {
"code": "401",
"message": "Invalid access token"
}
}

Is this what your link is supposed to give:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-recovery-gathers-speed/

[Foxxster]

This is what that URL is giving me{
"error": {
"code": "401",
"message": "Invalid access token"
}
}

Is this what your link is supposed to give:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-recovery-gathers-speed/

sorry about that.

try this

QANTAS GROUP RECOVERY GATHERS SPEED
• Group Domestic capacity increasing beyond previous estimates to reach 90 per cent of pre-COVID levels in Q4 FY21; Jetstar to exceed 100 per cent due to strong leisure demand.
• All Qantas and Jetstar domestic crew now back at work.
• Recovery strategy puts short term focus on cash positive flying over profit margins – meaning more low
fares to help drive demand.
• Continuing to target resumption of rest of international network from late October; continued flexibility
for customers.
• Premium international lounges in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to reopen.
• New deal signed with Accor

https://investor.qantas.com/DownloadFile.axd?file=/Report/ComNews/20210415/02363725.pdf

[kiwi grey]

And yet:
Covid-19: Australia will have 1000 cases a week if borders are opened, Scott Morrison warns
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison says there would be at least 1000 coronavirus cases in Australia every week if the international borders were to open, even when vulnerable people are vaccinated.
Morrison was asked by Perth radio 6PR to clarify Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt’s comments earlier this week that international travel could remain off-limits even if the entire population is vaccinated.
The Prime Minister also laid out future plans to allow Australians to travel overseas for business and funerals and potentially quarantine at home, before allowing mass travel again.
...
Asked if that meant the entire world would need to be vaccinated before Australia could reopen, Morrison said it was a “moving situation”.
“We can’t control what is happening in the rest of the world,” he said, adding that quarantine-free travel had already opened to New Zealand.

He said work was underway to open a travel bubble with Singapore, but ruled out similar pathways for Europe, the United States, India, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and other countries with large outbreaks.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300278510/covid19-australia-will-have-1000-cases-a-week-if-borders-are-opened-scott-morrison-warns

[Transition Layer]

I think the point that ScoMo is trying to make, is that even with 1000 cases a week, it will result in minimal deaths, assuming the vulnerable are vaccinated.

We need the media to report deaths or serious illness, not cases. Zero cases forever is fantasy land!

[cynphil]

I think the point that ScoMo is trying to make, is that even with 1000 cases a week, it will result in minimal deaths, assuming the vulnerable are vaccinated.

We need the media to report deaths or serious illness, not cases. Zero cases forever is fantasy land!

I don’t think it refers to deaths at all.......but draw your own conclusions!

[Colonel_Klink]

I think the point that ScoMo is trying to make, is that even with 1000 cases a week, it will result in minimal deaths, assuming the vulnerable are vaccinated.

We need the media to report deaths or serious illness, not cases. Zero cases forever is fantasy land!


And further to this, what he is trying to say is that we can’t have those case numbers if State Premiers continue carrying on and locking borders at the sound of someone sneezing.

Common sense would say if your most vulnerable are vaccinated, and state premiers agree not to close borders when cases emerge, then you can open up flying from International destinations in a controlled way (ie from permitted countries and to those who have been vaccinated).

But common sense ain’t all that common amongst our so called political ‘leaders’.

[wheels_down]

VIC, NSW and QLD will not be open if there is so called ‘thousands’ of cases a week.

Pipe dream.

[blubak]

I don’t think it refers to deaths at all.......but draw your own conclusions!
I dont think it refers to deaths either but if there are 1000 cases a week coming in its not going to be long before there are hundreds seeking hospital beds closely followed by the deaths.
Just look at whats going on outside of oz.

[ScepticalOptomist]

I dont think it refers to deaths either but if there are 1000 cases a week coming in its not going to be long before there are hundreds seeking hospital beds closely followed by the deaths.
Just look at whats going on outside of oz.

You seem to be missing the point.

ONCE vaccinations are widespread, here in Oz, and in those countries we open up to, CASES may be high if the vaccines prove not to stop infection (which they seem to) but because of the vaccinations, those cases are basically a mild cold at worst, and most likely would show no symptoms. We need to move away from CASE numbers being an important metric. If you have 1000 cases with zero disease, it won’t matter.

Just like the common cold / flu - if you tested the community, there would be thousands per week being infected, but very few of those need medical attention. The same will become true for COVID.

[blubak]

You seem to be missing the point.

ONCE vaccinations are widespread, here in Oz, and in those countries we open up to, CASES may be high if the vaccines prove not to stop infection (which they seem to) but because of the vaccinations, those cases are basically a mild cold at worst, and most likely would show no symptoms. We need to move away from CASE numbers being an important metric. If you have 1000 cases with zero disease, it won’t matter.

Just like the common cold / flu - if you tested the community, there would be thousands per week being infected, but very few of those need medical attention. The same will become true for COVID.
Well if that proves to be correct it will be a good result.
The trouble with what scomo said is that nobody (himself included) really knows what he is trying to say.
He is more interested in photo opportunities & talking about 'Jenny & I'

[dysslexicgod]

I’m sorry to say that vaccination certificates carried by inbound travellers won’t be worth the cardboard their printed on. Human nature being what it is, the production of a genuine certificate is a real headache. We will get swamped by the (rich) sick if we open borders and we have no way of containing or treating them.

Im sorry to say that QF international is going to be a very limited semi government service from now on.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Well if that proves to be correct it will be a good result.
The trouble with what scomo said is that nobody (himself included) really knows what he is trying to say.
He is more interested in photo opportunities & talking about 'Jenny & I'

I think the politicians need to take a good hard look at themselves, but I doubt they ever will! :)

[t_cas]

Consider.
many opening of international travel would need to go hand in hand with policy of NZ et al as we expand our limited travel bubble in the region.

Influx of Covid may be accepted here by the government, however it will likely create a border once again across the Tasman.

The whole scenario is damned by geopolitical intimacy.

[Fonz121]

Consider.
many opening of international travel would need to go hand in hand with policy of NZ et al as we expand our limited travel bubble in the region.

Influx of Covid may be accepted here by the government, however it will likely create a border once again across the Tasman.

The whole scenario is damned by geopolitical intimacy.


Not really. NZ could just ban anyone who hasn't been in Australia for x amount of time or any other possible criteria for people originating from x country in the last x days.

[t_cas]

Not really. NZ could just ban anyone who hasn't been in Australia for x amount of time or any other possible criteria for people originating from x country in the last x days.

I think you have completely missed the point.

[Tucknroll]

The public will not accept high case numbers. Premiers across Australia are receiving overwhelming mandates for maintaining strict quarantine procedures resulting in low (or no) case numbers. The PM is getting bad press and a loss of confidence of late, the one thing he can hang his hat on is his management of the pandemic. The suppression strategy is gone, an elimination strategy has proven to win votes. You can jump up and down all you like but no one is going to accept COVID cases that come from open borders.

Australia was amongst the first to close, it will be the last to open. Hope for something different by all means, but if you are planning on an October letter calling you back to work, it may not come.

[Fujiroll76]

The public will not accept high case numbers. Premiers across Australia are receiving overwhelming mandates for maintaining strict quarantine procedures resulting in low (or no) case numbers. The PM is getting bad press and a loss of confidence of late, the one thing he can hang his hat on is his management of the pandemic. The suppression strategy is gone, an elimination strategy has proven to win votes. You can jump up and down all you like but no one is going to accept COVID cases that come from open borders.

Australia was amongst the first to close, it will be the last to open. Hope for something different by all means, but if you are planning on an October letter calling you back to work, it may not come.


The letter is likely to come next week 👍🏼

[Keg]

The public will not accept high case numbers. Premiers across Australia are receiving overwhelming mandates for maintaining strict quarantine procedures resulting in low (or no) case numbers.

The public needs to be educated by the leadership that once vaccinated, case numbers are irrelevant. Given it seems that the vaccine all but eliminates severe disease let alone death we should pay the same attention to Covid case numbers as we do to flu numbers each year. IE basically none.

[ScepticalOptomist]

The public needs to be educated by the leadership that once vaccinated, case numbers are irrelevant. Given it seems that the vaccine all but eliminates severe disease let alone death we should pay the same attention to Covid case numbers as we do to flu numbers each year. IE basically none.

Precisely. The tone and focus of the briefings need to change.

[Transition Layer]

The public needs to be educated by the leadership that once vaccinated, case numbers are irrelevant. Given it seems that the vaccine all but eliminates severe disease let alone death we should pay the same attention to Covid case numbers as we do to flu numbers each year. IE basically none.
Exactly Keg, well said :D

[Tucknroll]

The public needs to be educated by the leadership that once vaccinated, case numbers are irrelevant. Given it seems that the vaccine all but eliminates severe disease let alone death we should pay the same attention to Covid case numbers as we do to flu numbers each year. IE basically none.

Of course, but I think you’ll find that’s a long way off. Look at how the government responded to public pressure concerning the AstroZeneca vaccination. A hint of public concern and it’s effectively pulled from distribution for those under 50. Add to this the delays in vaccine rollout explained away by Scott Morrison because there is no COVID problem here, and consequently no rush and it paints a glacial progression out of this. I daresay the truth of those comments was more along the lines of ‘we actually have no idea of how to navigate our way out of this.’ Fair enough too, it’s quite clearly a complete sh!tshow.

We’re not going to be seeing much education from a Prime Minister who only yesterday was saying that if we open borders we can expect 1000 cases per day and he doesn’t know what would happen if that were to occur.

All I’m saying is, don’t count on international to return to service in October. There are too many nervous people in the government and the public at large for that to happen. I’ve got plans for the next two years away from flying, I suggest other pilots do the same.

[halfmoon]

The reality is the borders will be closed for years to come. Vaccination of a large portion of the population won't change the politicians stance on zero cases. The Australian people are basically prisoners. Quarantine is here to stay.

[LostWanderer]

The reality is the borders will be closed for years to come. Vaccination of a large portion of the population won't change the politicians stance on zero cases. The Australian people are basically prisoners. Quarantine is here to stay.

Sadly I believe you are correct.
While the vaccine is considered effective when looking at the data on a macro time scale given how new it is. Long term it is still an enormous unknown when it comes to what will happen with further viral mutations (India for example is pushing a 1.3 billion population, god only knows what could happen to the virus as it spreads through the population there) then there is if booster shots will be required and if they will continue to be effective. I mean even the longer term side effects the vaccine may have on our own bodies...far too many unknowns with this virus thus far for Scotty or the airline CEOs to be calling that international ops are open for business from date X.

[Transition Layer]

The reality is the borders will be closed for years to come. Vaccination of a large portion of the population won't change the politicians stance on zero cases. The Australian people are basically prisoners. Quarantine is here to stay.
Getting it back on topic..if that’s the feeling out there, that borders will be closed for years, then what to do with QF International?

How long can International remain it it’s current state, and should the Government intervene with a financial stake? Could be a much better investment long term than just handing out $500/wk to employees with the goalposts moving constantly.

[Wingspar]

By the 4th quarter of this calendar year both the US and UK, as well as Singapore, will be fully vaccinated. Consequently there will be negligible cases if any. Their borders will be open and unrestricted. The yanks are doing that even now for those vaccinated!

What will Australia do then?

Little if any cases here and over there. Significant numbers of Australians vaccinated. The elderly and vulnerable fully vaccinated.

There will be little logic to argue against travel to these countries.

What little logic exists will result in, at the very least, an arrangement like the Tasman Bubble.

[turbantime]

Getting it back on topic..if that’s the feeling out there, that borders will be closed for years, then what to do with QF International?

How long can International remain it it’s current state, and should the Government intervene with a financial stake? Could be a much better investment long term than just handing out $500/wk to employees with the goalposts moving constantly.
Put the international division into voluntary administration. Clean the slates and start again. Negative publicity will be more than offset by the savings to be had by renegotiating everything from financing to EBAs.

[Transition Layer]

Put the international division into voluntary administration. Clean the slates and start again. Negative publicity will be more than offset by the savings to be had by renegotiating everything from financing to EBAs.

I was half-expecting a response like that from a Virgin pilot. Apples and oranges though...Virgin was/is a great airline but a poor business once JB and his ego got behind the controls. COVID simply accelerated its run into administration.

Whereas QF International is currently being hamstrung by the most restrictive border controls of basically any country in the world. The Government is continuing to contribute to the pain with no pathway out of it, and I’m suggesting that perhaps an equity stake in the Intl arm could be a better option long term than handouts to staff. After Greg Hunt’s comments the other day that even after the vaccine rollout the borders may stay shut makes you wonder how QF Intl can survive in its current form.

[davidclarke]

Question is how long can QF international survive? If this looks like it’s going to go on for a few years then AJ and shareholders won’t want the rest of the group to spend a cent propping up international. The government may seriously have to look at some kind of arrangement to prop it up if it is to survive
The other option is to let it fail and that would be no good for any Australian.

[Chris2303]

Substitute QF with any longhaul airline code to get a better answer

[ScepticalOptomist]

Put the international division into voluntary administration. Clean the slates and start again. Negative publicity will be more than offset by the savings to be had by renegotiating everything from financing to EBAs.

If only it was so easy. Our industrial laws don’t allow for what you propose. Besides which, Qantas (Mainline) is one company - no such thing as voluntary administration on a departmental basis.

[ScepticalOptomist]

After Greg Hunt’s comments the other day that even after the vaccine rollout the borders may stay shut makes you wonder how QF Intl can survive in its current form.

Again, Greg Hunt was asked if he could absolutely GUARANTEE that the border would stay open - and like everytime
the media ask for a GUARANTEE the answer has to be NO.

His answer of course made headlines with all the usual BS...

[Transition Layer]

Again, Greg Hunt was asked if he could absolutely GUARANTEE that the border would stay open - and like everytime
the media ask for a GUARANTEE the answer has to be NO.

His answer of course made headlines with all the usual BS...
Good point...perhaps I got sucked in by the headline along with everyone else! I do feel the rhetoric has changed though - because they have stuffed the vaccine rollout they are becoming more gun shy about opening up.

[Potsie Weber]

Question is how long can QF international survive? If this looks like it’s going to go on for a few years then AJ and shareholders won’t want the rest of the group to spend a cent propping up international. The government may seriously have to look at some kind of arrangement to prop it up if it is to survive
The other option is to let it fail and that would be no good for any Australian.

QF International was pretty small pre-COVID. The 787’s are all now flying and a bunch of A330’s. They lost quite a few to VR, ER and LWOP. Be interesting to know the numbers they still have, probably not too far from a stable part-time workforce apart from the A380.

As long as things don’t go backwards but continue a slow pace forward, there would be no reason to get rid of International. The 787 and A330 flying is only going to increase and they have the option to use them domestically as well.

Another round of VR would have a good take up I would think.

[maggot]

No VR on the horizon for now

[Keg]

Borders opening is ‘when’, not ‘if’ and it’ll be well before the end of next year.

I reckon when they hit the 60% mark they’ll set a date 6 months in the future beyond that and tell the other 40% of the population they have that long to be vaccinated because after that the borders are open.

I also reckon we may have a phased start up. Singapore and Japan could be by years end or potentially earlier- especially in Singapore’s case. My guess is the borders to the USA will be opening around March/ April next year. The UK if they end up with everyone vaccinated and nil transmission could end up open by this Christmas with some minor restrictions for them to isolate upon arrival for a few days until negative test is confirmed. Manila perhaps not for a couple of years.

Depends a bit on how successful the vaccine is in stopping transmission. If it significantly decreases it AND it stops severe Covid AND most of the populations is vaccinated, why would there be any restrictions at all?

As to QF crew numbers, I reckon QF have worked out how to do the minimum and how to hibernate everything. The scenario that is probably giving them nightmares at the moment is if demand roars back. With long lead times required for the A380 to get aeroplanes and crew up to speed it’d take 12 months plus to get all 12 jets back in the air. I reckon they could do 3-4 in four months. 6 Jets in about 9 months. The remaining six would probably take another 6 months on top of that.

[goodonyamate]

Removed pending phone call....

[Tucknroll]

The Union is completely lame. We didn’t use the power of collective bargaining when we had it. We allowed the company to bypass the Union entirely in the last EBA vote.

The company ignored the Union when we had something to bargain with. Why on earth would the company listen to them when we have absolutely nothing to bargain with? They aren’t even pursuing EBA variations anymore.

[Wingspar]

Does anyone know what the ‘new’ AIPA execs position is on 380 crew? QF will not deviate from their
position, that being the trigger for 380 crew to be paid is when the 380 is back, ie Nov 2023. Understandably, there are 380 crew pretty annoyed about this, and as one caller put it on the last webinar, this is a ‘seniority based award’. I might have mis interpreted his position, but the assertion that we are all ‘LH pilots’ seemed to me like a question of ‘why can’t we the senior crew take the seats of those the junior crew’. Where does AIPA stand on this? For all the talk by the G20 of a lack of transparency from the previous exec, I can’t say I’m at all impressed with the new regime. TBH on on the edge of leaving AIPA. Anecdotally I’m told there is still some work going on to see if it is legally possible to bump junior crew. I hope this is incorrect, but for all their talk, I find their transparency completely non existent! Anyone?

Don’t need AIPA to sort this one out.

Come the time when slots are advertised, and they will, A380 crew have every right to bid for them. In most cases their seniority will win them the slot. The company cannot knock them back.....it’s the award, sorry EA.

How can the company argue no useful work in that case?

[engine out]

Has AIPA ever been transparent? Every group that leads a charge for a take-over promising bluer skies under delivers just as much as the last.

[goodonyamate]

............

[ruprecht]

I almost feel guilty for feeling this way about AIPA as I know there are some fantastic people who really do work hard for others to their own detriment. However I can’t help feel like it is back to being a LH pilots union.
re bidding for slots, I agree. However it is unlikely the trigger for SH training will be met anytime soon. I’m told hours nextbrister vary between bases from mid 50’s. There is also no requirement for the company to allow LH crew to bid back for anything that isn’t a promotion. I can’t see them allowing a back bid if they truly believe the 380 will be needed, due to cascading training etc.

this is just a sh$t sandwich.
Agreed. Now that I’m emptying my leave bank, I’m looking closely at leaving AIPA until I’m back at work. Nothing political, but if I’m out of work for the next two years I need all the money I can get.

[Keg]

Associate membership available for those not drawing an income from QF. $20/ month. I appreciate that for some even this is a bridge too far at the moment.

[mmm345]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/04/qantas-first-pilot-hires-since-covid-to-be-from-its-academy/

[Global Aviator]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/04/qantas-first-pilot-hires-since-covid-to-be-from-its-academy/

Well that was the plan all along.

[dr dre]

Well that was the plan all along.

Absolutely. No surprise that an airline chooses to employ recruits from it’s own academy.

Fantastic news after the year we’ve had that recruitment is starting again. Hopefully more of it to come.

[Callsign Please]

Well that was the plan all along.

Applications for 36 month secondments from inside the group are open too, I think they close today actually.

[Climb150]

So I guess the academy needs more students? Nobody will sign up if they don't think there is Qantas group job at the end.

I'm also guessing they will hire based on what looks good for PR purposes?

[wheels_down]

Question is how long can QF international survive? If this looks like it’s going to go on for a few years then AJ and shareholders won’t want the rest of the group to spend a cent propping up international. The government may seriously have to look at some kind of arrangement to prop it up if it is to survive
The other option is to let it fail and that would be no good for any Australian.
The solution in the medium to long term will be to float Jetstar Group. Keep the relationship at 10-20%. Japan and Singapore can be sold but branding held.

Financial windfall would be very very significant.

[SHVC]

Former Jetstar Japan CEO Nicolas Rohrlach is days away from starting as Velocity chief executive at Virgin, after accepting the position in December. But Qantas has applied to the Supreme Court of Singapore for an injunction to stop him, until its claim that he is legally not allowed to work for Virgin until September can be heard.

How much would Nic know and what damage to QF could he do?

[Paragraph377]

Former Jetstar Japan CEO Nicolas Rohrlach is days away from starting as Velocity chief executive at Virgin, after accepting the position in December. But Qantas has applied to the Supreme Court of Singapore for an injunction to stop him, until its claim that he is legally not allowed to work for Virgin until September can be heard.

How much would Nic know and what damage to QF could he do?

I would say - plenty of damage judging by the way QF are going to extraordinary lengths to keep Nic away from VA for as long as possible. At best, they can only delay the inevitable until September. My guess would be that Nic knows a lot more about the QF Groups holistic strategic plans that includes much more than just Jetstar Japan.

[blubak]

I would say - plenty of damage judging by the way QF are going to extraordinary lengths to keep Nic away from VA for as long as possible. At best, they can only delay the inevitable until September. My guess would be that Nic knows a lot more about the QF Groups holistic strategic plans that includes much more than just Jetstar Japan.
I suppose they think by keeping him away as long as possible he may suffer memory loss too,have they forgotten he can still communicate with them even if he isnt officially employed.
The longer they play their usual bullying games the more determined he is going to be when he is eventually allowed to work for virgin,another classic example of AJ throwing a tantrum.

[goodonyamate]

I just heard on the news this morning someone from the government saying quarantine will be in place for at least 2 ears in Australia. I didn’t make it in to the room fast enough to see who it was. Devastating for the international arm of the business.

[blubak]

I just heard on the news this morning someone from the government saying quarantine will be in place for at least 2 ears in Australia. I didn’t make it in to the room fast enough to see who it was. Devastating for the international arm of the business.
In reality probably not a great surprise when you look at india.
Considering the population of india,its going to be a nightmare trying to get people to comply & then there is the shocking living conditions in many parts of the country.
The only hope for international is some more travel bubbles & even then if there are any to asia the people coming to oz from wherever will have to be able to prove where they have been.
If we get any of what india has got,domestic will be shut down very quickly,we need to protect what we have got.

[SHVC]

Well, by the looks of it this will very much go on beyond 2022 even further with Australia having its borders closed. Reports that India had more infections and death than being reported in excess of half a billion infected.

[Troo believer]

Well, by the looks of it this will very much go on beyond 2022 even further with Australia having its borders closed. Reports that India had more infections and death than being reported in excess of half a billion infected.
Why? India isn’t Australia. Having fully open borders is obviously going to be problematic but bubbles will evolve as vaccination rates increase. The USA will have heard immunity within the next few months. Their fully vaccinated citizens are free to travel internationally and return without having to quarantine unlike Australia whom thinks it knows better even though we didn’t develop any of the top 6 vaccines.

Qantas is planning for international travel beyond the current bubble with enthusiasm. The Olympics will go ahead. How will the 2000 plus entourage get to Japan? The current cyclic program has an exercise in and out of Haneda. Why? If Australia doesn’t pull its finger out it will be left behind and watch the political backlash start once the general public realise they’ve been duped.

If the state wants to save lives and not overwhelm the health system then ban smoking and drinking immediately. The hypocrisy knows no bounds. Set the speed limit at 20kph to eliminate road deaths. Ban red meat as it causes heart disease which is the number one killer in Australia.

Where does this stupidity stop and where does the rational logical debate begin.

Don’t get out of bed. It’s too dangerous. In fact don’t be born at all since you’ve got a 100% chance of dying.

[Paragraph377]

Why? India isn’t Australia. Having fully open borders is obviously going to be problematic but bubbles will evolve as vaccination rates increase. The USA will have heard immunity within the next few months. Their fully vaccinated citizens are free to travel internationally and return without having to quarantine unlike Australia whom thinks it knows better even though we didn’t develop any of the top 6 vaccines.

Qantas is planning for international travel beyond the current bubble with enthusiasm. The Olympics will go ahead. How will the 2000 plus entourage get to Japan? The current cyclic program has an exercise in and out of Haneda. Why? If Australia doesn’t pull its finger out it will be left behind and watch the political backlash start once the general public realise they’ve been duped.

If the state wants to save lives and not overwhelm the health system then ban smoking and drinking immediately. The hypocrisy knows no bounds. Set the speed limit at 20kph to eliminate road deaths. Ban red meat as it causes heart disease which is the number one killer in Australia.

Where does this stupidity stop and where does the rational logical debate begin.

Don’t get out of bed. It’s too dangerous. In fact don’t be born at all since you’ve got a 100% chance of dying.

COVID is going nowhere. It’s here and here to stay. The mass vaccinations are not designed to eliminate COVID, they are designed to slow the pandemic down to a point where it is going to be probably something manageable like a seasonal flu. Some figures suggest that in itself will take another 2 years to achieve at the rate things are going. 15 months in and the pandemic has yet to be brought under control. They ‘thought’ it would take 6 months.

The sad reality is that the sooner we learn to live with it rather than lockdown the world, the better. The actual cost of trillions to the global economy, businesses that won’t return, the huge rise in suicide, depression and mental health problems, the increase in deaths from cancers because people haven’t been attending hospitals, doctors and specialists, and so on is astronomical. The full effect has not yet been felt. As much as TV footage from India is disturbing, facts still show that the obese, unhealthy and elderly are at highest risk. Less than 1% of people have been affected and the recovery rate is around 98%. The worlds Governments panicked and overreacted and now we are paying a very heavy price that will be felt for many decades.

[SHVC]

Just look at what WA did over 1 case last week, the stupidity will last for yrs time some accept it. Hong Kong have announced a travel bubble with Singapore so does Australia pursue a bubble with Singapore still?

USA expected to have herd immunity brilliant for them, it will mean nothing for us, remember what WA did last week over 1 case, the very highly infectious strain that could kill us all! QLD, VIC, NT, SA, TAS will do the same if there is one case. Short sharp snap lockdowns they’re called I’m still struggling to come to terms with that as you would think contact tracing would be up to scratch.

[LostWanderer]

Just look at what WA did over 1 case last week, the stupidity will last for yrs time some accept it. Hong Kong have announced a travel bubble with Singapore so does Australia pursue a bubble with Singapore still?

USA expected to have herd immunity brilliant for them, it will mean nothing for us, remember what WA did last week over 1 case, the very highly infectious strain that could kill us all! QLD, VIC, NT, SA, TAS will do the same if there is one case. Short sharp snap lockdowns they’re called I’m still struggling to come to terms with that as you would think contact tracing would be up to scratch.

Exactly my thoughts.

I think the pain for our industry and Australian airlines is far from over, Alan claiming international is back by October (or whenever it is now) is a pipe dream. But more so, a few months of elevated pax numbers and travellers blasting around on the domestic burners and visits to our close neighbours over the ditch is just peachy…Before they start getting cold feet again over the constant last second border closures and state lock downs that are without doubt due to occur many more times yet will only lead to a one step forward two steps back type situation.

And with basically zero international visitors flying on our shiny little jets (sorry, not including you kiwis in those numbers) til TBD - some say a year, some say even a few - things just don’t look good in the next couple years at all once the dust settles. Some of you lads like to Sugar coat it and say it will be all good before we know it and bounce back soon…but it’s just not going to happen on our current trajectory. No way in heck with our leaders calling these shots.

[Fujiroll76]

Don’t get caught up in the media hype. COVID is here to stay...just like the flu. Move on.

Qantas has just invited LWOP holders on the 330/787 to return as soon as next month.

EU is open to vaccinated Americans. It’s only a matter of time. The AU population won’t stand for being prisoners for much longer

[Global Aviator]

Of course QF are going to do all of the Olympic Games charters.

2000 attendees? There’s around 8 flights up and 8 flights back, nothing huge but not bad at the same tone.

787’s or 330’s?

Also surely journo’s, commentators etc must also go?

Will be interesting to see.

As for Straya opening up... yeah I reckon prison island for at least a year to come with Q on arrival regardless of the jab jab.

[Angle of Attack]

I share the pessimism but I reckon Australia will be pulled into the fray with most other western countries opening up international travel over the next few months. Scotty from marketing is all talk no action, he will allow international travel if the polls say so, this crap about the health experts is exactly that....crap.. I mean for god sake the data says if you are COVID vaccinated it is less lethal than influenza..It will turn, possibly faster than we think...

[Climb150]

Don’t get caught up in the media hype. COVID is here to stay...just like the flu. Move on.

Qantas has just invited LWOP holders on the 330/787 to return as soon as next month.

EU is open to vaccinated Americans. It’s only a matter of time. The AU population won’t stand for being prisoners for much longer
EU is not currently open to vaccinated Americans. It may be in the future but as of now, no.

[Keg]

At the current rate of vaccination the USA will be fully vaccinated in a few months. Cases there will decrease significantly and perhaps even to the point of eradication?

Two things will then occur. They’ll be able to travel a bit more freely, and more vaccinations will become available for the rest of the world including Australia. Whilst the Australian vaccination rollout has been slowed with the AZ issues, I can foresee a very significant number of Pfizer vaccine doses coming online from about August with the prospect of the entire nation vaccinated by Feb/ March next year.

With that having occurred theres no reason why quarantine free travel can’t open up from Feb/ March next year as long as the state Premiers start to understand that Covid cases with vaccine is a very different beast to Covid cases without vaccine. My guess is that a vaccinated public will start to turn against state Premiers who continue the lockdown charade. In the interim I can see bubbles with Singapore and Japan before years end. Potentially the USA and the UK also though there may still be some iso requirements for the latter two on arrival until all of Australia is also vaccinated.

A lot of has changed in the last 12 months. A lot can change again in the next 12- both good and bad!

[SHVC]

How can we have a bubble with Singapore when they will be freely traveling to Hong Kong? Australia has not mentioned a bubble with Hong Kong anytime soon, so I guess Singapore is now off the table now, and if it’s not it should be.

Pfizer being more readily available you say! To whom inner city People the fact is Pfizer is in the to hard basket to make it readily available and Astra Zeneca is a damaged brand no coming back for that one now, early reports 58 yr old has died from AZ overnight still early and yet to be confirmed but AZ may as well be shelfed now. .

WA people are brainwashed to the Max they love the McGowen will close at the sniff of this pesky virus. Queen P we know will do the same but will also go running to the gov for cash because she is keeping QLD safe. Eradication has been jammed down the throat of all Australians anything less will not be accepted regardless of vaccinated or not.

What will be the next throughly tried and tested vaccine? Australia is falling further behind the world everyday, don’t get to excited to fly your 330 to Japan or Singapore just yet!

[Chad Gates]

early reports 58 yr old has died from AZ overnight

can you give us some more information about this. I can find absolutely no evidence at all, anywhere, that this is true. Thanks.

[Global Aviator]

At the current rate of vaccination the USA will be fully vaccinated in a few months. Cases there will decrease significantly and perhaps even to the point of eradication?

Two things will then occur. They’ll be able to travel a bit more freely, and more vaccinations will become available for the rest of the world including Australia. Whilst the Australian vaccination rollout has been slowed with the AZ issues, I can foresee a very significant number of Pfizer vaccine doses coming online from about August with the prospect of the entire nation vaccinated by Feb/ March next year.

With that having occurred theres no reason why quarantine free travel can’t open up from Feb/ March next year as long as the state Premiers start to understand that Covid cases with vaccine is a very different beast to Covid cases without vaccine. My guess is that a vaccinated public will start to turn against state Premiers who continue the lockdown charade. In the interim I can see bubbles with Singapore and Japan before years end. Potentially the USA and the UK also though there may still be some iso requirements for the latter two on arrival until all of Australia is also vaccinated.

A lot of has changed in the last 12 months. A lot can change again in the next 12- both good and bad!

Keg, herein lies the scary point, you have a fairy balanced debate and certainly skin in the game yet like me you are predicting a year away for real international travel. As for travel
bubbles, I think a lot of it is all talk. I really do hope we are wrong.

[goodonyamate]

Reported overnight, died last week, Tamworth base hospital.

[SHVC]

Last week, last night point being Astra Zeneca vaccine is all but done in Australia no one will want it, remember over 50 was safe.

Next player please JJ, Moderna we need something.

[brokenagain]

In other breaking news, man who died in car crash last night received AZ vaccine last month. Investigations continuing to see if they are linked. :rolleyes:

[ruprecht]

we need something.

What we need is to make maths compulsory in year 12, particularly statistics.

What we need is a government with the balls to say “by this date, everyone will have had the opportunity to get vaccinated. Two months after this date we will start a plan to manage travel into and out of Australia. Get vaccinated.”

[On eyre]

What we need is to make maths compulsory in year 12, particularly statistics.

What we need is a government with the balls to say “by this date, everyone will have had the opportunity to get vaccinated. Two months after this date we will start a plan to manage travel into and out of Australia. Get vaccinated.”

Right on 👍

[Keg]

Keg, herein lies the scary point... yet like me you are predicting a year away for real international travel.

Sadly yes. I suspect it will be April/ May next year before we have more or less restriction free travel.


As for travel bubbles, I think a lot of it is all talk. I really do hope we are wrong.

I was surprised at how quickly New Zealand got up and going. I thought for sure that was going to fizzle out into the never never. Perhaps the NZ economy needed the Aussies travelling across? Certainly loads in the early weeks have been a lot heavier eastbound than westbound. Probably right given half of NZ lives in Australia anyway.


I really do hope we are wrong.

Me too. I do see a small chance of UK and USA travel as early as Christmas this year but it will take a certain confluence of events that aren’t very likely. A bit like a precision timing schedule where it takes a lot of little separate things all working perfectly for it to come off.

[halfmoon]

The NZ bubble was one way for a long time. The bubble can close in a heart beat and the only reason there is one with NZ is because both countries have pretty much stopped community transmission.
Singapore and hkg both have community transmission and Japan is 5000+ cases a day.
No bubble with these countries anything soon. You can dream though.

[Keg]

Nearly 1/4 of the Singaporean citizenry has had 1 dose. 15% have had both doses. At current rates they’re finished around September. A fully vaccinated nation changes the dynamic significantly.

[Chris2303]

It seems that the Tasman Bubble is not the great white saviour that those promoting it thought it would be

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/124969812/transtasman-fizzer-sluggish-start-for-tasman-bubble-tourism

[cloudsurfng]

My tip post covid....

there is no ‘post covid’..... expansion of HWS and a new facility being built in Victoria show quarantine is here to stay for a long time. Australia will lag behind other developed nations and keep borders tightly controlled. State premiers have had a taste of power and they don’t want to give it up. 2 of the worst offenders have just been re-elected by the brainwashed sheep.

787’s and half the 330’s to go along with a domestic network. That’s it. Stand downs on those fleets to continue for a long time, as there is no ‘free travel’. As long as there are bubbles only, and closed international borders, QF will get away with the ‘no useful work’ line.

once Australia catches up (maybe 5 years) then 350’s etc. I can’t see a good outcome for those on the 380 or in the bottom half of the 330.

[ScepticalOptomist]

My tip post covid....

there is no ‘post covid’..... expansion of HWS and a new facility being built in Victoria show quarantine is here to stay for a long time. Australia will lag behind other developed nations and keep borders tightly controlled. State premiers have had a taste of power and they don’t want to give it up. 2 of the worst offenders have just been re-elected by the brainwashed sheep.

787’s and half the 330’s to go along with a domestic network. That’s it. Stand downs on those fleets to continue for a long time, as there is no ‘free travel’. As long as there are bubbles only, and closed international borders, QF will get away with the ‘no useful work’ line.

once Australia catches up (maybe 5 years) then 350’s etc. I can’t see a good outcome for those on the 380 or in the bottom half of the 330.

Wow, glass half full type? :-)

[cloudsurfng]

Wow, glass half full type? :-)

i was mate, until I saw how Australia reacted over 1 case last week. The biggest barrier to LH is not covid. It’s the idiot premiers and the people they’ve brainwashed.

combine that with increasing vaccine scepticism, amd a dumbass media that will headline when someone who has had a vaccine dies, but hides in the small print the investigation showing it was unlinked.

[ScepticalOptomist]

i was mate, until I saw how Australia reacted over 1 case last week. The biggest barrier to LH is not covid. It’s the idiot premiers and the people they’ve brainwashed.

combine that with increasing vaccine scepticism, amd a dumbass media that will headline when someone who has had a vaccine dies, but hides in the small print the investigation showing it was unlinked.

I feel and share your frustration!

Its easy to get all caught up in the negative BS.

Stay well, there'll be beers upline soon enough - my shout.

[FightDeck]

My tip post covid....

there is no ‘post covid’..... expansion of HWS and a new facility being built in Victoria show quarantine is here to stay for a long time. Australia will lag behind other developed nations and keep borders tightly controlled. State premiers have had a taste of power and they don’t want to give it up. 2 of the worst offenders have just been re-elected by the brainwashed sheep.

787’s and half the 330’s to go along with a domestic network. That’s it. Stand downs on those fleets to continue for a long time, as there is no ‘free travel’. As long as there are bubbles only, and closed international borders, QF will get away with the ‘no useful work’ line.

once Australia catches up (maybe 5 years) then 350’s etc. I can’t see a good outcome for those on the 380 or in the bottom half of the 330.

Qantas won’t be able to navel gaze for years.If what you say is true then Qantas will at some point have to address the new business reality just like most airlines in the world are having to do. A media statement isn’t the law.And they won’t be able to wait till 2024 either.

[neville_nobody]

The fly in the ointment will be that we are 12 months from a federal election so who knows what crazy policies will be wheeled out by either party to govern. That in itself could end International travel to/from Australia for 5 years+

[ScepticalOptomist]

The fly in the ointment will be that we are 12 months from a federal election so who knows what crazy policies will be wheeled out by either party to govern. That in itself could end International travel to/from Australia for 5 years+

Rubbish.

On what planet do you guys live on?

How do you allow that much negativity to invade your thinking?

[neville_nobody]

Rubbish. On what planet do you guys live on?

Have a look at what has happened at a State level then extrapolate that to a Federal Level. Feeling safe is a big vote winner regardless of the financial cost or economic damage. There are going to be economic repercussions of this isolationism but none cares because they feel safe and in reality Covid has been a financial windfall for many people.

[Dannyboy39]

Well, by the looks of it this will very much go on beyond 2022 even further with Australia having its borders closed. Reports that India had more infections and death than being reported in excess of half a billion infected.
You sound surprised at this? It’s India we’re talking about here, clearly numbers are going to be hugely underreported. A few days ago it was predicted to have been 3-4x underreported.

The Covid global statistics are pointless as no country will be reporting 100% cases or total deaths. The headline number in the UK is “deaths within 4 weeks of a positive test” however if Covid is recorded on the death certificate, it still counts in the underlying stats. It’s not meant to be a scoreboard yet many countries use it to make decisions based around travel. I had a situation in Eastern Europe in the Autumn that said I couldn’t travel if the case rate was over 16 per 100k. It was 15.9. If you don’t test, you don’t find.

[Foxxster]

Qantas HQ staying in NSW, so Victoria missed out. As for India, they are looking at another 2 million plus deaths if their rate per million population gets to the same levels as the UK, Italy etc..

[Fliegenmong]

Here's a thought....they were NEVER going to leave Sydney, AJ would never leave 'The Rocks', the exec. team never to leave 'The Shire'. All bluff & bluster to get a better deal, and then, of course, Gladys would not want to lose her Chairman's Lounge membership would she?

Sunfish was correct...Australia's "soft corruption" at it's finest!

[Going Boeing]

With the reductions in payroll tax & ongoing incentives to keep everything where it is, Joyce will be able to award himself another massive bonus - corruption at its best.

[Ken Borough]

Joyce will be able to award himself another massive bonus - corruption at its best.

The last time I looked, the Board sets the remuneration package of the CEO. While AJ is a member of that Board, I’m sure he recuses himself from all remuneration deliberations that affect him.

[Chris2303]

I’m sure he recuses himself from all remuneration deliberations that affect him.

I spat my coffee all over my keyboard when I read that

[Going Boeing]

My understanding is that if any Board Member tries to dig too deeply into the plans that Joyce has made, he spits the dummy and leaves the meeting.

They’re all walking on eggshells trying not to upset the petulant child.

[galdian]

My understanding is that if any Board Member tries to dig too deeply into the plans that Joyce has made, he spits the dummy and leaves the meeting.

They’re all walking on eggshells trying not to upset the petulant child.

Strange - and willing to be corrected - thought the board appointed the CEO and the CEO reported to the board, the board being the greater entity.

At least the previous VA board got the balance right with Borghetti! ;)

[Climb150]

Strange - and willing to be corrected - thought the board appointed the CEO and the CEO reported to the board, the board being the greater entity.

At least the previous VA board got the balance right with Borghetti! ;)

You would be right if Qantas and it's board functioned like it should! Plenty of high profile scandals in the last 30 years of dysfunctional corporate boards showing poor or non existent governance.

I'm not saying this is the case at Qantas, but once AJ is gone don't be surprised by anything he has done.

[SHVC]

SM will announce international borders to remain closed indefinitely article in this mornings rag, appetite for zero cases has won! why are we bothering to vaccinate, may as well send our supplies to countries that want to get on with living.

Also, how does this affect QF and JQ international crews moving forward? this must be a massive drain on their books with a close on the market of $4.770, this could plummet now. AJ and Co. will be crunching some numbers I'm sure. Could this be the start of a new I.R battle could QF decide to dissolve international part of the business and then make plans to bring it back when Australia decides to open up, with lesser conditions of course!

Morrison sees no urgency in opening international borders

Prime Minister Scott Morrison says he sees “no appetite’’among Australians yet for opening the nation’s international borders, and he believes there is not enough evidence yet on the reliability of vaccines.

“I don’t see an appetite for that at the moment,’’ Mr Morrison has told The Daily Telegraph in a wide-ranging interview (https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/scott-morrison-says-australia-will-be-closed-to-the-world-for-a-long-time/news-story/1004927db2de0ad9e821cb8622292808).

“I think what we are seeing at the moment is the appreciation of the people that the pandemic isn’t going anywhere.’’

The Prime Minister said: “all I know is once you let it [COVID-19] back in again, you cannot get it out. You’ve crossed that threshold.’’

The US and Europe “have been riddled with the pandemic and they can’t turn that back.

“We continue to roll out the vaccination program, over the course of this year, and in the meantime, I intend to be cautious, it’s in my nature.’’
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/455d0d322b62b14698b4d65beea80d38?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/455d0d322b62b14698b4d65beea80d38)Prime Minister Scott Morrison. Picture: NCA NewsWire/Bianca De MarchiMr Morrison also says there is not yet “considerable clinical evidence that tells us transmission is preventable’’ after vaccination always and “I think Australians want to ensure that the way we’re living at the moment is maintained’’.

The Prime Minister also says retail spending is high because Australians used to spend more money overseas than tourists spent in Australia.

[DirectAnywhere]

Sigh....what a small, frightened, insular, parochial nation we’ve been revealed to be.

PM doesn’t trust the science of vaccines and all of a sudden the conservative side of politics is willing to sacrifice personal freedom on the altar of electoral convenience because they can’t reframe the messaging around the risk of a vaccinated population.

He’s also been backed into a corner by the embarrassing backlash and subsequent backflip on arrivals from India.

Retail spending is high? Sure, on products designed and manufactured overseas. Gerry Harvey is making a few bucks but the rest of the money disappears overseas. Services sector (particularly education/ tourism) still devastated.

The PM is a follower, not a leader, and has been thoroughly outthought and outmanoeuvred by the supposed dullards in the room in the state leaders, leaving him with no alternative except to keep the country indefinitely closed off from the rest of the world.

I wouldn’t have believed it possible even four months ago when the vaccine rollout started.

[Tucknroll]

Sigh....what a small, frightened, insular, parochial nation we’ve been revealed to be.

PM doesn’t trust the science of vaccines and all of a sudden the conservative side of politics is willing to sacrifice personal freedom on the altar of electoral convenience because they can’t reframe the messaging around the risk of a vaccinated population.

He’s also been backed into a corner by the embarrassing backlash and subsequent backflip on arrivals from India.

Retail spending is high? Sure, on products designed and manufactured overseas. Gerry Harvey is making a few bucks but the rest of the money disappears overseas. Services sector (particularly education/ tourism) still devastated.

The PM is a follower, not a leader, and has been thoroughly outthought and outmanoeuvred by the supposed dullards in the room in the state leaders, leaving him with no alternative except to keep the country indefinitely closed off from the rest of the world.

I wouldn’t have believed it possible even four months ago when the vaccine rollout started.

Total spending in Australia is higher than it would be with open borders, not just retail spending. The only industries truly suffering are international airlines and the travel agencies and airlines have the benefit of stand down and government handouts so they’re doing better than their international competitors. The vast majority of other industries have adapted and are having a great time. Those that were unable to adapt have already failed.

What would be a disaster is if Covid got into our society now. Surely you can see that.

[DirectAnywhere]

Sure. Right now? Yup. I get it.

Once the population is vaccinated? Nup. With this interview the PM has basically jumped on the zero cases bandwagon.

COVID is not the same as the flu. I won’t try and argue that it is, but the comparison that once vaccinated we can keep deaths probably in the hundreds per year amongst vulnerable populations, similar to the flu, is a valid argument. Health economists make these calculations and judgements daily when considering how many doctors, hospitals and ICU beds we have. The public don’t realise that bureaucrats already make decisions about balancing the level of financial and health risk the population is willing to accept in dealing with conditions endemic to the population. The PM is just not willing to publicly acknowledge this and sell the message.

He’s made a mess of two significant areas of national responsibility - quarantine and vaccine rollout. This is a capitulation from the PM, plain and simple. He looks like a man without a plan and is vulnerable to further attacks.

[chookcooker]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/




pretty good evidence there that it’s greatly reducing transmission there Scotty boy.
how about we ask your overlord in the Biden administration? His CDC would disagree it seems:


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19


grabted they’re all using Phizer, are you simply covering up your own ineptitude Scotty??

[Tucknroll]

Sure. Right now? Yup. I get it.

Once the population is vaccinated? Nup. With this interview the PM has basically jumped on the zero cases bandwagon.

COVID is not the same as the flu. I won’t try and argue that it is, but the comparison that once vaccinated we can keep deaths probably in the hundreds per year amongst vulnerable populations, similar to the flu, is a valid argument. Health economists make these calculations and judgements daily when considering how many doctors, hospitals and ICU beds we have. The public don’t realise that bureaucrats already make decisions about balancing the level of financial and health risk the population is willing to accept in dealing with conditions endemic to the population. The PM is just not willing to publicly acknowledge this and sell the message.

He’s made a mess of two significant areas of national responsibility - quarantine and vaccine rollout. This is a capitulation from the PM, plain and simple. He looks like a man without a plan and is vulnerable to further attacks.

If he changed the plan he would be acting against what 95% of the population want. Why change the plan when virtually everyone is happy with how it is going?

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/covidpoll-2021

[cloudsurfng]

A worrying time for LH crew.

[Cirressna]

If he changed the plan he would be acting against what 95% of the population want. Why change the plan when virtually everyone is happy with how it is going?

From the report:

Almost all Australian adults (95%) say that Australia has handled COVID-19 well, with a 22-point jump in those saying Australia has handled COVID-19 ‘very well’

Australians who have been vaccinated should be free to leave 40%
All Australians should be free to leave 18%

Looks like the majority (58%) follow common sense. Dial back the fearmongering.

[Beer Baron]

If he changed the plan he would be acting against what 95% of the population want. Why change the plan when virtually everyone is happy with how it is going?
Because it is costing the economy billions of dollars a year and the Liberal party are supposed to be the good economic managers.

It has been estimated that the closed international border is costing the country 8 billion dollars a month! It is not just international airlines suffering, one of the biggest industries in Australia by value is education. NSW will lose $14 billion a year by missing out on international students.

While lives are at risk, by all means keep the borders shut, but once vaccines take away that risk then there is no excuse for destroying the economy and people’s livelihoods.

[Transition Layer]

Ahh Scotty you bogan dimwit! The vaccine was never intended to stop transmission, it was hoped that it may play a part in reducing it. But the overall aim of the vaccine is stop people dying! Who cares if we have 1000 new cases every day if people aren’t getting seriously sick or dying. There’s a reason the vaccine is being rolled out to the vulnerable first.

Long term, his zero COVID goal is about as achievable as his beloved Sharkies making the finals this year. Thanks for ruining my career for a bit longer old mate...you moron.

[cloudsurfng]

I’m sure it won’t be long until a proper legal challenge is mounted. Keeping families apart, especially from lower risk countries AND if you and your family are vaccinated must be against some kind of law. We are becoming a first world North Korea, or worse, a China. This is not a dictatorship despite what Scotty and some premiers would like you to believe.

however, where does it go for international crew from here? What ramifications would there be for a complete are almost complete wiping out of the LH part of the airline? Very worrying times.

[thec172man]

I’m sure it won’t be long until a proper legal challenge is mounted. Keeping families apart, especially from lower risk countries AND if you and your family are vaccinated must be against some kind of law. We are becoming a first world North Korea, or worse, a China. This is not a dictatorship despite what Scotty and some premiers would like you to believe.

however, where does it go for international crew from here? What ramifications would there be for a complete are almost complete wiping out of the LH part of the airline? Very worrying times.

I honestly think it'll just be status quo for LH crew as before, wait around on no pay. The headlines are sensationalised and it's all politics at the moment (threaten fines and jail time for own returning citizens ... not so good PR). The Northern summer coming up would be a good indication on allowing international movements, even with the slow rollout of the vaccine and low risk appetites in Australia, if the data shows that cases don't explode to cause mass amount of deaths and overwhelming hospitals, then the federal government would continue with their bubble concepts and gradually open up from next year to selected countries.

Fortunately or unfortunately based on someone's point of view, the stand down clause has somewhat allowed CR to really be used as a last resort. So as I said in the beginning, it'd just remain status quo for LH crew.

[PoppaJo]

It’s pretty clear (well most LH I’ve spoken to can see the reality) that International full blown reopening won’t occur until 24. 2023 we test the waters. Alan has been leading the media on a bit, his balance sheet is quite ugly so probably warranted.

We will still be cycling major outbreaks and the unknown for the next 12 months.

Will need to be some consolidation on the Domestic front. I’ve seen a drop off in loads in the last few weeks, they will need to move away from just trying to fill seats with over capacity to actually making some cash, if that half of the business is dead for the medium term.

[Foxxster]

Glad international students are being kept out. They are a main reason wages haven’t increased for 20 years. Endless supply of graduates who are tied to their employer due to visa requirements. They are also a major source of immigration which is destroying Sydney and Melbourne. The university sector isn’t educating them as much as simply selling citizenship via university courses. Which they seem to be able to acquire, up to masters level without even having basic functional English. Yes I have had to take over work for such a person in addition to what I already had to do because they couldn’t write English. Incredible given assignments and exams are in English. Oh, but assignments are all group, ensuring at least one local is included who ends up doing all the work. As for exams, can’t fail them or else they might complain and the university would get a bad reputation amongst international students and they would go elsewhere, ending the rivers of gold. So to hell with the ‘education’ aka citizenship selling sector. The Australian economy needs to grow up. If all we do is dig **** out of the ground, sell citizenship and build crappy dog box apartment blocks to house them then we are doomed anyway.

rant over.

[Going Nowhere]

How can pilots remain stood down while Qantas adds more seats through Alliance?

Surely that means there is useful work to be done? Work which should and could be done by stood down pilots who are receiving government financial support?

No useful work for the aircraft they fly.

same reason LH are stood down while QLink are interviewing for externals

[patty50]

I’m sure it won’t be long until a proper legal challenge is mounted. Keeping families apart, especially from lower risk countries AND if you and your family are vaccinated must be against some kind of law.

When my grandmother came to Australia in her 20s she never saw her parents again. Within Australia’s immigrant history the immigrants knew that coming here meant more or less cutting the rope and many never returned to their country of origin. Visiting family overseas a couple of times a year is a very recent phenomenon, really only in the last 20 years.

The reason we can’t leave is because people leave and then cry they can’t readily come back (see just about everyone in India who wants to return).

[t_cas]

When my grandmother came to Australia in her 20s she never saw her parents again. Within Australia’s immigrant history the immigrants knew that coming here meant more or less cutting the rope and many never returned to their country of origin. Visiting family overseas a couple of times a year is a very recent phenomenon, really only in the last 20 years.

The reason we can’t leave is because people leave and then cry they can’t readily come back (see just about everyone in India who wants to return).

wasn’t the premise of long service leave to allow poms to return on the long voyage for family reunions……

[cloudsurfng]

When my grandmother came to Australia in her 20s she never saw her parents again. Within Australia’s immigrant history the immigrants knew that coming here meant more or less cutting the rope and many never returned to their country of origin. Visiting family overseas a couple of times a year is a very recent phenomenon, really only in the last 20 years.

The reason we can’t leave is because people leave and then cry they can’t readily come back (see just about everyone in India who wants to return).

as is their right. And the removal of this right is bound to be challenged.

[SHVC]

Glad international students are being kept out. They are a main reason wages haven’t increased for 20 years. Endless supply of graduates who are tied to their employer due to visa requirements. They are also a major source of immigration which is destroying Sydney and Melbourne. The university sector isn’t educating them as much as simply selling citizenship via university courses. Which they seem to be able to acquire, up to masters level without even having basic functional English. Yes I have had to take over work for such a person in addition to what I already had to do because they couldn’t write English. Incredible given assignments and exams are in English. Oh, but assignments are all group, ensuring at least one local is included who ends up doing all the work. As for exams, can’t fail them or else they might complain and the university would get a bad reputation amongst international students and they would go elsewhere, ending the rivers of gold. So to hell with the ‘education’ aka citizenship selling sector. The Australian economy needs to grow up. If all we do is dig **** out of the ground, sell citizenship and build crappy dog box apartment blocks to house them then we are doomed anyway.

rant over.
That's an interesting take on the situation. I guess visa holders would be more inclined to take a lower wage as opposed to having to go to their origin country.

[patty50]

wasn’t the premise of long service leave to allow poms to return on the long voyage for family reunions……

Ok so we visit our overseas family once every ten years? We’re 14 months in to the travel ban.

The travel ban has been effective at stopping superfluous trips. An ounce of prevention (stopping exits) is worth a pound of cure (chartering flights to bring the complaining “stranded” back).

If you’re sick of the joint and want to leave for 3+ months you can.

[On eyre]

as is their right. And the removal of this right is bound to be challenged.

Sure it’s a right (with conditions​​​​​) - like at the moment due to the pandemic you’ll have to wait a bit etc. Warning was given last year to get back while you could.

[Foxxster]

That's an interesting take on the situation. I guess visa holders would be more inclined to take a lower wage as opposed to having to go to their origin country.

students, especially Chinese study here with the sole intention of staying, ie migrating here. They have limited knowledge of wage levels here and are desperate to stay. And competition is strong with the numbers of graduates our kolleges of nollege are churning out.

then you have 457 visa holders. Many come from India for IT or finance positions. I was involved in offshoring jobs to India about 10 years ago. Jobs paying 70 to 80k here were 13 to 15 k in India, 120 to 130k manager roles here, 30k in India. So they come here on a 457 , get offered 100k, a fortune to them but 20 to 30k below market rates. Employers know this so advertise roles at 100k, nobody applies as it is below market rates. Employers cry no skilled workers…. And of course 457 visa holders are sponsored so need to stay with that employer, or find another employer that is willing to sponsor them, more difficult to move roles.
fhen you have zero wage internships that foreign graduates take out of desperation. Basically working around 6 months for nothing after they graduate to get SOME experience. Often these companies are owned by Chinese so they exploit their own.

[Street garbage]

So ironical that the Chief Pilot (yes we have one!!) puts out an email asking us to pretty please...please...do the Survey (because no one has done it) the same day that more flying is outsourced....

[KRUSTY 34]

No useful work for the aircraft they fly.

same reason LH are stood down while QLink are interviewing for externals

You know, in an enlightened and employee engaged workplace it would make sense to at least offer redeployment to those who have had their lives turned upside down. After all they’re already in the system, with all the associated skills and clearances. Certainly way ahead of anyone off the street.

Just work down the LH Seniority list and perhaps put in some “return of service” provisos?

I mean it’s not Rocket Science.

[Going Nowhere]

You know, in an enlightened and employee engaged workplace it would make sense to at least offer redeployment to those who have had their lives turned upside down. After all they’re already in the system, with all the associated skills and clearances. Certainly way ahead of anyone off the street.

Just work down the LH Seniority list and perhaps put in some “return of service” provisos?

I mean it’s not Rocket Science.

They did, just as EFA, Network and NJS did. An EOI went out for a 3 year secondment. Mostly they required to be rated on type. This counted most internal people out. They got a few bites but need to supplement that with externals to meet projected intake numbers.

They also need to make sure they have the right people for the job. Being part of the group doesn’t automatically make you “way ahead of anyone off the street.”

[SDN Superstar]

They also need to make sure they have the right people for the job. Being part of the group doesn’t automatically make you “way ahead of anyone off the street.”

I’ll bet the Brisbane based Q400 Captains would rather a group A3something or a 7whatever pilot over more QFPP...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/australianaviation.com.au/2021/04/qantas-first-pilot-hires-since-covid-to-be-from-its-academy/amp/

[Going Nowhere]

I’ll bet the Brisbane based Q400 Captains would rather a group A3something or a 7whatever pilot over more QFPP...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/australianaviation.com.au/2021/04/qantas-first-pilot-hires-since-covid-to-be-from-its-academy/amp/

I've heard they have interviewed a mix of GA and ex airline. It's initially for SYD and MEL bases.

[dr dre]

I’ll bet the Brisbane based Q400 Captains would rather a group A3something or a 7whatever pilot over more QFPP...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/australianaviation.com.au/2021/04/qantas-first-pilot-hires-since-covid-to-be-from-its-academy/amp/

All LH pilots have been offered slots with Qlink, Alliance and EFA. Some needing type ratings, some no rating required.

If there's not enough internal candidates then they go to external recruitment. And yes, Academy grads will be the first to be offered employment, no surprise an airline will choose those who've been through their own training system first over unknowns.

As far as who is "preferred" well that is a debate that has been done to the death on these forums, let's just say there have been a variety of cadetships and traineeships offered within the group for decades and they've all done fine. A lot of cadets/trainees rapidly became Q400 Captains and Training Captains in Qlink over the years so perhaps they'd have no problem at all with Academy grads?

[73to91]

students, especially Chinese study here with the sole intention of staying, ie migrating here. They have limited knowledge of wage levels here and are desperate to stay. And competition is strong with the numbers of graduates our kolleges of nollege are churning out.

then you have 457 visa holders. Many come from India for IT or finance positions. I was involved in offshoring jobs to India about 10 years ago. Jobs paying 70 to 80k here were 13 to 15 k in India, 120 to 130k manager roles here, 30k in India. So they come here on a 457 , get offered 100k, a fortune to them but 20 to 30k below market rates. Employers know this so advertise roles at 100k, nobody applies as it is below market rates. Employers cry no skilled workers…. And of course 457 visa holders are sponsored so need to stay with that employer, or find another employer that is willing to sponsor them, more difficult to move roles.
fhen you have zero wage internships that foreign graduates take out of desperation. Basically working around 6 months for nothing after they graduate to get SOME experience. Often these companies are owned by Chinese so they exploit their own.
Having lost my job last year I was 'lucky' to pick up a job in security. What an eye opener, working with guys from Pakistan (Accounting degree), Nepal (chemistry) India (accounting, IT and teaching) - Nepalese have the best English of that group. Sense of entitlement by some and they are all in on every government handout they can get (I was shocked to learn that I could get a couple of things). All say the government is doing right thing, funny thing to me is the Indians don't want the Indians to return to Australia. As for the money, what I could not believer from speaking to others is the fact that large companies pay so poorly to these guys in supposedly and potentially high risk areas (guys move from airport to ports security).

[halfmoon]

Well, like I keep saying. Quarantine is here and here to stay!
borders closed indefinitely with no exit strategy. It's rather sad to see when they push the vaccine on the population then go back on why the vaccine is really there in the first place.
The rest of the world is learning to live with the virus. Australia and NZ will turn into hermit states like North Korea before too long.
​​long.
Australians have had the right to freedom of movement taken from them, probably never to be returned.

[blubak]

So ironical that the Chief Pilot (yes we have one!!) puts out an email asking us to pretty please...please...do the Survey (because no one has done it) the same day that more flying is outsourced....
I guess they have used lines to tug at your heart strings such as 'we need your input because we want to do better'!
Dont get fooled.

[Transition Layer]

I guess they have used lines to tug at your heart strings such as 'we need your input because we want to do better'!
Dont get fooled.

Or alternatively, do the survey and tell them exactly how you feel when you see flying being outsourced (bye bye future Mainline SH commands), while you collect $934/fortnight in govmint money and get an email every 8 weeks telling you there is no useful work.

[DirectAnywhere]

Why bother? We’ve been telling them how we feel for 20 years since the purchase of Impulse and look where we are.

[C441]

FWIW:
Qantas 787s have operated just over 80 sectors in the last 5 weeks - most of them international on repatriation and freight services to LAX, HKG, NRT, LHR, FRA, JNB among other places.

Not outstanding, but not exactly idle either.

[blubak]

Or alternatively, do the survey and tell them exactly how you feel when you see flying being outsourced (bye bye future Mainline SH commands), while you collect $934/fortnight in govmint money and get an email every 8 weeks telling you there is no useful work.
When they get a reply it ticks a box to say you are engaged & therefore the kpi's are achieved for the relevant manager thus bonus paid.

[Transition Layer]

Why bother? We’ve been telling them how we feel for 20 years since the purchase of Impulse and look where we are.
Fair call. Personally I find it cathartic and every bit helps these days.

I’ve never really believed the story that any kind of response is a positive for engagement. I can think of a few Base Managers who were coincidentally moved on just after receiving poor scores in engagement surveys.

[ruprecht]

Why bother? We’ve been telling them how we feel for 20 years since the purchase of Impulse and look where we are.

Well... I just let rip, and if they want to de-identify it and track me down, so be it. :hmm:

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Engagement equals KPIs for managers still reaping rewards even though they have almost no one to manage. Way to go " Leaders ".

Sullenbergers address to congress sumed it up well.

" A revolving door managment team treating the airline's staff as ATMs."


MCD.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Well... I just let rip, and if they want to de-identify it and track me down, so be it. :hmm:

I took great pleasure in telling them exactly how I felt.

[Ollie Onion]

I let rip as well, sick of being polite.

[Street garbage]

I didn't complete one, the way they continue to outsource all aspects of the Company (On Time Performance anyone? Must have been removed from their KPI's this year), the way that our "Group"- as in Network, Cobham/NJS, Alliance- continue to externally recruit, continue with Promotion, and some of which have never even had a month of stand down (I recently saw some social media posts of Network Pilots......) ,whilst 3/4 of our pilots apparently have "no useful work" and continue to be stood down...well, Our Management should be ashamed, instead it is Champagne all round.

[knobbycobby]

Qantas is a toxic place to work anyway.They don’t give a s&$#@ about their staff.As you say subsidiaries at capacity whilst some pilots are told to F&$# off till 2024 and do 5 years stand down.
Have to face the reality they truly dont give a ****e other than bull**** wank off emails and rubbish wipe your arse surveys.
Do your best to move on,study something or start something else.If anyone’s left after years in the abyss they are not going to give two hoots about the toxic red rat.

[cLeArIcE]

Maybe I'm just cynical but, I don't understand people wanting to waste their time filling in surveys etc. No one will ever read it. Especially a HR survey. A useless survey written by the most useless people in the business.
Not many physcometric tests to check these days, so need to justify their existence in other ways.
% quota of engaged employees achieved = bonuses and management reach arounds. ....

Just as I don't get the few individuals that still want to take minimum fuel everywhere, bend over backwards to save fuel, extend duty times, use minimum flap settings, not use reverse etc like seriously why do you care?
There is no mutual respect anymore. Management literally see you as a dog to be used until you drop or your no longer useful. To then be taken out the back and cast away so they can bring in a newer cheaper one.

[Wingspar]

How about the torture AJ and crowd have put staff through the last few months with this property review. Thousands worried if they’ll have to give up their jobs if their workplace moves. To worry about this during this pandemic!
Only to find out after an excruciating wait that, wait for it, they’re not moving!!!
Disgraceful!

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Toxic in the extreme.

It must be socially isolating and quite lonely to know what the average pilot thinks of managers.

All the rhetoric and rubbish surveys wont help them when they have to look in to a mirror. Or look you in the eye.

MCD

[FightDeck]

Qantas don’t give a damn. I don’t know why they bother. Flying is years away for many. A survey or other bull**** emails are an insult. Many are cast aside unpaid for years. Why would you bother to read an email, do a survey or even give a toss. Those on extended stand downs have mentally checked out or soon will. Those that don’t return till late 2023 or most likely later are going to slowly give up. Might have been said by someone else but time to stop waiting for something that’s not going to return for years, and a toxic company who’s happy to cast you aside for a long time.
Past DPA now, find somewhere and something else so you don’t need to care.

[Telfer86]

Whatever people may think north or south about the future of LH

It is great to see the QF LH crew doing what they are currently doing

Truly Courageous

[blubak]

Whatever people may think north or south about the future of LH

It is great to see the QF LH crew doing what they are currently doing

Truly Courageous
It certainly is & they are getting no recognition for it.
Yet again,its those at the top whose faces appear to receive all the glory whilst at the same time continue to screw the workforce in any way they can think of.

[TimmyTee]

Whatever people may think north or south about the future of LH

It is great to see the QF LH crew doing what they are currently doing

Truly Courageous

Happy for them to be up and flying again, but truly courageous..? How many vaccinated, stood down/sacked WB guys and girls in Aus wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to do what they’re currently doing..

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Truly courageous?

Thats a circle jerk if ive ever heard it!

[maggot]

Truly courageous?

Thats a circle jerk if ive ever heard it!
its telfer ffs

[Tucknroll]

Truly courageous?

Thats a circle jerk if ive ever heard it!

They wouldn’t get me doing the India flights for double pay. Good on those people who’ve put their name forward, it’s voluntary for a reason.

[cessnapete]

Happy for them to be up and flying again, but truly courageous..? How many vaccinated, stood down/sacked WB guys and girls in Aus wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to do what they’re currently doing..

Lots of "courageous" BA and Virgin pilots have been flying to India regularly during the C19 event. Mainly freight. At the moment obviously no layover.
Double crewed, out and back with a couple of hours turnaround. All aircraft have crew rest facilities of course.
Also being UK based they have at least one vaccination. Vaccinations down to the mid 30 year olds here.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

There are also alot of " Truly Courageous " who are working jobs they rather wouldn't be to provide for their families.

Dont forget the guys and girls who arent allowed to fly or earn a living from their chosen profession. There are plent out there that would jump at the chance to earn something. Covid or no Covid.

The truly courageous are those trying keeping it together whilst being shafted by all around them.

MCD

[Mafortion]

There are also alot of " Truly Courageous " who are working jobs they rather wouldn't be to provide for their families.

Dont forget the guys and girls who arent allowed to fly or earn a living from their chosen profession. There are plent out there that would jump at the chance to earn something. Covid or no Covid.

The truly courageous are those trying keeping it together whilst being shafted by all around them.

MCD

Well said! I’m going on 424 days since I last did my job.

[Troo believer]

They wouldn’t get me doing the India flights for double pay. Good on those people who’ve put their name forward, it’s voluntary for a reason.
We are all vaccinated so the risk is there but extremely low. We had COVID positive passengers on board a few months ago. Didn’t know until we were told a few days later. Not one of the crew became infected and that was long before anyone was vaccinated. The odds are probably higher of having an engine failure at V1 and what are the odds of that? 2/5ths of fu*kall.

Lots of people that frequent this forum and think that they’re opinion is somehow valid or needed have no idea of risk or responsibility. Pilots accept and mitigate risk on a daily basis. When you are responsible for all passengers crew and the aircraft as your professional duty, you understand risk. It’s probably the reason why the vast majority think that the quarantine arrangements are complete bull****.

Then we get Tucknroll crapping on about supposed risks that aren’t even calculable. Do you fly? Do you drive? Do you eat red meat? Drink alcohol. Stay in bed mate it’s far safer. **** you could even get an infected bed sore.

As a rough guess 90% of the 787 crew are making themselves available for repat flying including yours trooley.
Why do some learn to fly when they’re so scared of living?

[ruprecht]

Well said! I’m going on 424 days since I last did my job.
442 for me

[Tucknroll]

We are all vaccinated so the risk is there but extremely low. We had COVID positive passengers on board a few months ago. Didn’t know until we were told a few days later. Not one of the crew became infected and that was long before anyone was vaccinated. The odds are probably higher of having an engine failure at V1 and what are the odds of that? 2/5ths of fu*kall.

Lots of people that frequent this forum and think that they’re opinion is somehow valid or needed have no idea of risk or responsibility. Pilots accept and mitigate risk on a daily basis. When you are responsible for all passengers crew and the aircraft as your professional duty, you understand risk. It’s probably the reason why the vast majority think that the quarantine arrangements are complete bull****. Then we get Tucknroll crapping on about supposed risks that aren’t even calculable. Do you fly? Do you drive? Do you eat red meat? Drink alcohol. Stay in bed mate it’s far safer. **** you could even get an infected bed sore. As a rough guess 90% of the 787 crew are making themselves available for repat flying including yours trooley.
Why do some learn to fly when they’re so scared of living?

I don’t because I have someone in my home who would likely die if they got Covid. And that’s the point really, the reason that Australia has fared so well is because we, as a nation, have shielded the weak and vulnerable. I know if I get Covid, I’ll be fine. Thousands of Australians would die if it got loose in our unvaccinated community.

Most Australians are happy with the current situation, because we’re living good, almost entirely unaffected lives during a pandemic. If the decision makers called Troo believer instead of the actual experts, we’d have hundreds if not thousands of dead.

[Troo believer]

I don’t because I have someone in my home who would likely die if they got Covid. And that’s the point really, the reason that Australia has fared so well is because we, as a nation, have shielded the weak and vulnerable. I know if I get Covid, I’ll be fine. Thousands of Australians would die if it got loose in our unvaccinated community.

Most Australians are happy with the current situation, because we’re living good, almost entirely unaffected lives during a pandemic. If the decision makers called Troo believer instead of the actual experts, we’d have hundreds if not thousands of dead.

Yes the vaccination is the key to unlocking the travel restrictions. We all know that. You could quarantine in a hotel instead if you’re concerned about bringing back an infection if you’re indeed a pilot. Somehow I doubt that you are. I will add that not one flight crew member flying internationally has become infected since it all began. Read the science. It’s accessible and prolific but don’t hide behind ill founded opinion based on CLS. Is the vulnerable person vaccinated yet? I sincerely hope so.

[Street garbage]

Tucknroll is probably a tradie, quite happy to take jobkeeper whilst it was available by cooking the books (I'll give you 10% discount for cash sound familiar??), but now is booked out for the next 2 years. There is absolutely now chance he is in anyway associated with the Aviation Industry, it actually looks like Telfer using another name.

[Telfer86]

Well I think it was & is courageous , a lot of evac flights were done pre-vaccine
Others may have their own view , can't really see the relevance of people quoting number of days since work
I got called various names(not phased) by stating that getting back to 25% of international (no including NZ) within 2 years
would be a great achievement - it turns out I was wildly optimistic. Covid still ripping through countries & Sing/HK/Taiwan back in lockdown
, places like Indo/Thailand & the poorer countries in Asia concern me.

I always thought the "snapback" theory to International travel was tenuous. And what people need to start coming to terms with is that the
pre-Covid international travel system simply no longer exists - there is nothing to "go back" to anymore. That system is gone/over for several years
& something new needs to be created

Shrieking "its all good" or blaming the various Australian Govts isn't going to change reality, WA , Vic & Qld are not going to cede their international border control powers

[Tucknroll]

I will add that not one flight crew member flying internationally has become infected since it all began.

Yes they have.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/13009752

[Tucknroll]

Tucknroll is probably a tradie, quite happy to take jobkeeper whilst it was available by cooking the books (I'll give you 10% discount for cash sound familiar??), but now is booked out for the next 2 years. There is absolutely now chance he is in anyway associated with the Aviation Industry, it actually looks like Telfer using another name.

Ah yes, all those tradies that hang out on obscure pilots forums. Perhaps you can write to the moderator with important access questions like “which bush is the best for hiding long necks at fatty’s so skinny didn’t find them” so you can weed out all the plumbers who like to post here. Hell if I was a tradie, I’d have much better things to do with my time than argue with armchair virology experts who blame their woes on anyone they can.

[Troo believer]

Yes they have.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/13009752

No incorrect. It was a flight attendant (cabin crew) not flight crew (pilot).

[Keg]

No incorrect. It was a flight attendant (cabin crew) not flight crew (pilot).

And it was suspected they picked it up at some stage whilst in Paris (adhering to all the rules regarding iso), not from a pax.

[ozbiggles]

Because pilots don't catch Covid

https://www.traveller.com.au/taiwan-grounds-china-airlines-after-covid19-outbreak-among-pilots-h1vr9j

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55433588

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

I will add that not one flight crew member flying internationally has become infected since it all began.
You’re wrong.

[maggot]

Because pilots don't catch Covid

https://www.traveller.com.au/taiwan-grounds-china-airlines-after-covid19-outbreak-among-pilots-h1vr9j

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55433588
not relevant given the restrictions in place for aus based crew when overseas and on return.
We're not wandering around getting/spreading it nor getting it at home and taking it abroad.

we're locked in hotel rooms.

[Tucknroll]

No incorrect. It was a flight attendant (cabin crew) not flight crew (pilot).

Yep I know of at least one tech crew. I am sure there are others.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.themercury.com.au/news/coronavirus/hobart-covid19-survivor-michael-crew-details-his-battle-with-the-virus/news-story/a3770a6bd6cc2da90e0a10fa90a5e0c7

[Keg]

If you read that article closely you’ll see that Mick got Covid before the stand down and restrictions about staying in your hotel room, etc. In his own words he talks about the interaction in the shops- something QF pilots haven’t had since resuming repat and freighter flying from about May last year.

Since the restrictions regarding hotel rooms, masks, contact with others, etc, there hasn’t been a single Qantas pilot test positive for Covid as a result of operating an overseas pattern. I’m not sure of the exact number but it’s well north of 4,000 crew on various trips for zero cases.

The ‘since it all began’ that I believe Troo believer was talking about was repat and freighter flying, not the beginning of the pandemic.

[Troo believer]

If you read that article closely you’ll see that Mick got Covid before the stand down and restrictions about staying in your hotel room, etc. In his own words he talks about the interaction in the shops- something QF pilots haven’t had since resuming repat and freighter flying from about May last year.

Since the restrictions regarding hotel rooms, masks, contact with others, etc, there hasn’t been a single Qantas pilot test positive for Covid as a result of operating an overseas pattern. I’m not sure of the exact number but it’s well north of 4,000 crew on various trips for zero cases.

The ‘since it all began’ that I believe Troo believer was talking about was repat and freighter flying, not the beginning of the pandemic.

Confirmation bias creeps in. Why can’t some people read properly. However, I’ll need to be more specific next time.
“Since the border was closed and all rpt flying ceased internationally”.
How’s that?

https://www.traveller.com.au/australia-international-border-closures-should-we-adopt-the-uks-traffic-light-approach-to-arrivals-h1vusn

[ozbiggles]

not relevant given the restrictions in place for aus based crew when overseas and on return.
We're not wandering around getting/spreading it nor getting it at home and taking it abroad.

we're locked in hotel rooms.


People don't get Covid in hotel rooms? You had better let the State and Territory authorities know, that might come as a surprise!

[Keg]

To be fair, in most international ports Qantas crew aren’t sharing floors with Covid positive people. The only place that tends to happen is when forced into hotel quarantine in Australia.

Again, we’ve had 4,000+ pilots operate internationally and overnight outside of Australia since May last year. Zero covid cases. So no Ozbiggles, it appears that the crew operating internationally are not getting Covid in hotel rooms. We’re all mostly vaccinated now as well.

We are also significantly lower risk than local workers in hotel quarantine who face no restrictions on their movements. But there’s a separate thread already discussing that particular bit of policy stupidity.

[maggot]

People don't get Covid in hotel rooms? You had better let the State and Territory authorities know, that might come as a surprise!

Given the amount of bleach used around in the shanghai hotel prison and their processing i have some faith, and then on return these crew are not wandering in thr general population so no its apples/oranges.

[ozbiggles]

I agree it is apples and oranges (for brevity lets ignore the issues of home isolation) but both are potential vectors of Covid or any other virus into the community. It is all about the risk management. My point is (and to swing us/me back to topic)that Qantas crews and any other airline is just going to have to face the fact that Covid risk mitigation is going to remain a part of any operation for the foreseeable future and that ongoing risk management is going to sux (trust me still better than not having a flying career anymore). However as Keg points out that risk management model seems to be working for Australian crews. When you relax it you end up like the once golden child of Covid,Taiwan.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/how-did-covid-slip-through-taiwans-gold-standard-defences

[brokenagain]

trust me still better than not having a flying career anymore

Of the 164,265,954 people (at last count) worldwide that have had COVID, how many pilots do you reckon have lost their medicals? I’d guess 3/5ths of f*ck all. If pilots were truly worried about losing their medicals, they’d be best advised to never smoke or drink. That’d be risk management.

[ozbiggles]

Of the 164,265,954 people (at last count) worldwide that have had COVID, how many pilots do you reckon have lost their medicals? I’d guess 3/5ths of f*ck all. If pilots were truly worried about losing their medicals, they’d be best advised to never smoke or drink. That’d be risk management.

Something got lost in translation there. I wasn't talking at all about losing medicals

[brokenagain]

Something got lost in translation there. I wasn't talking at all about losing medicals

Copy....:ok:

[blubak]

There are also alot of " Truly Courageous " who are working jobs they rather wouldn't be to provide for their families.

Dont forget the guys and girls who arent allowed to fly or earn a living from their chosen profession. There are plent out there that would jump at the chance to earn something. Covid or no Covid.

The truly courageous are those trying keeping it together whilst being shafted by all around them.

MCD
QF management are experts at shafting people,they are now imposing a 2 yr wage freeze & at the end of that you may be entitled to a 2% pay rise.
The chances of back pay will be almost zero so whilst they continue as normal the frontline workforce get hammered harder.
Maybe there is some truth in Sharp(rex) saying qf is technically insolvent.
Think hard before refusing redundancy.

[morno]

Yeah because they’re clearly making shedloads of money right now, you idiot :ugh:

[ScepticalOptomist]

QF management are experts at shafting people,they are now imposing a 2 yr wage freeze & at the end of that you may be entitled to a 2% pay rise.
The chances of back pay will be almost zero so whilst they continue as normal the frontline workforce get hammered harder.
Maybe there is some truth in Sharp(rex) saying qf is technically insolvent.
Think hard before refusing redundancy.

The announcement is only to help lower costs and make the profits they make in the next few years even larger for their bonus schemes.

Only be bothered by the announcement if you have an open EBA - the rest are fine - the world will be a different place by the time EBAs expire.

[blubak]

Yeah because they’re clearly making shedloads of money right now, you idiot :ugh:
Obviously you know everything so we should all consult you before we are allowed to make a comment.
Maybe you can elaborate on how clever you think you are or are you just an angry little man.

[SHVC]

Only be bothered by the announcement if you have an open EBA - the rest are fine - the world will be a different place by the time EBAs expire.

Jetstar! They have an open EBA right?

[davidclarke]

Jetstar! They have an open EBA right?

The pay freeze is applicable from the last pay rise plus 12 months. There are a number of eba’s that are more than 3 years out of date so technically, any new agreements that are negotiated are able to include pay rises (provided they expired 3 or more years ago at the time the eba is voted up)....that’s how I read it anyway.

[halfmoon]

Question,
When Qantas crew return to Australia from an international flight are they required to request an exemption from NSW health everytime to go home to self isolate?