Loganair-3

[harriewillem]

How many operators did the service have in the past 5 to 10 years? The honesty is people do not care who the operator or airline is as long it flies cheaper than chips and on the time I want.... people pretend to care but the route is to thin to be viable it hasnt been stable in any of the recent years, and flying connecting pax inro LHR is no money maker also, it is nice seat fillers... but these "regional routes" are gonzo.. ... Loganair will not make it, it is working now with all the support it gets and payment of goverment on the route as well as for the staff who is at home... When the goverments in Europe stop the wage subsidy scheme... brace for impact....

[Saabdriver1]

Fair enough - I retract my opening comments which were unduly harsh. The explanation still stands and is hopefully of interest.

[flyerguy]

Worth noting that Loganair were denied slots for S21. Currently there’s slot alleviation still in force for W20/21 however going into S21 here’s hoping they can lease the slots from a different Airline!

Could really do with a codeshare when things do go back to normal (at least with the IOM borders)

[AirLCY]

There is a strong chance LM will get temporary slots at LHR either through rule relaxation or slot sitting for another airline....but by S22 they’ll be searching for slots elsewhere - back to LCY or STN

[JSCL]

BA are offering slots to multiple airlines currently to sit on them for up to 3 years on their behalf. Loganair isn't the only airline slots are being offered to.

[JSCL]

Saabdriver1

It restores my faith in reliable regional connectivity after what the regions - and Isle of Man - have had to deal with previously.

[Cat Techie]

Jump starting using another EJR is a practice that is legal and authorised in the EJR technical ramp manual. A large clamp is put into the donar aircrafts air start connector check valve allow the pnematic transfer. It was a once only operation to get the aircraft with the U/S APU out. Nothing dodgy or illegal. Worth checking facts before one posts.

[JSCL]

There was no insinuation of illegitimacy over the technique.

[southamptonavgeek]

Do we expect there to be any further passenger ATRs which are operated on a more permanent basis than G-FBXA and 'XB? It seems likely.

[goldeneye]

They are planning on replacing the Saab 340 fleet with ATR’s. They already have 4 ATR 42 passenger versions, with I think another 5 due this year. In addition to the 2 Passenger ATR72’s.

[southamptonavgeek]

I seem to be losing my memory... What I really meant to ask was whether we would see any more passenger ATR 72s - perhaps after the relatively short leases on the current two expire. Thank you for your reply though.

[SealinkBF]

Small fry, but every little helps: Loganair have won the tender for the Orkney Islands Inter-Island contract.

[davidjohnson6]

Which other airlines were credible candidates for the Orkney contract ?

[Link Kilo]

Directflight won a similar tender in Shetland last year so may have been a credible candidate for Orkney too.
https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W11/722600019

[Saabdriver1]

Our guys in Kirkwall had heard Directflight / Airtask had bid this time. There were rumours of another bidder in the equation as well but don’t know who. Good to see this stay in place with all of the history behind it - some of the best flying in Loganair.

[davidjohnson6]

During summer 2020, what happened to demand from people who were not island residents for leisure travel to/from Shetland, Orkney and Western Isles once things were allowed to open up again ?
Was there a surge of interest as people decided going abroad was too risky with travel corridors closing suddenly, or did people decide they wanted somewhere hot and sunny ?

[SWBKCB]

Saw an interview with Jeremy Clarkson the other day talking about the next episode of "Grand Tour". Not being able to go abroad, they decided to go to the Outer Hebrides to film - they couldn't go anywhere without stumbling over another film crew who had had the same idea...

[Saabdriver1]

There was some leisure travel into the islands last summer but very little. It's a very sensitive point if you are coming from a higher-infection area into an island with low Covid rates but also very limited healthcare facilities. Even when travel was permitted, it certainly wasn't encouraged.

[biddedout]

DJ6,
We went to Shetland in August and there were a few tourists but most probably went by ferry as the flight schedules were still thin. Also, only a few hotels were open and museums and attractions were very restricted if open at all. The season was a bit of a write off particularly as it effectively ends in September. Having said that, the weather was incredibly good and it was a pleasure to see the islands at their best. Had the weather been more traditional it would have made for a dull holiday for all but the toughest nature/walking types as most venues were closed. I can imagine there will be a greater interest this year if we can just get out of these restrictions.
Nice to see Shetland being practical. Taking cash on the ferries was an issue so they just took your name and address and let you on for nothing. I received a modest ferry bill from SIC a couple of months later.

[northsands]

I've noticed a mostly fortnightly series of INV/LSI nonstop schedules have recently appeared in the booking engine, Th evening northbound, Mo morning southbound, for the next three months or so (LM137/LM132).
Anyone know anything about these?

[SealinkBF]

Saabdriver1
Indeed. I did a sightseer flight KOI-NDY-SOY-KOI (WRY-PPW was full!) and the scenery is stunning.

incidentally, the pilot, when boarding passengers, asked who was the sight seer passenger to ensure I had a window seat! It was like getting into a taxi!

[BAladdy]

southamptonavgeek

Looks like more ATR72’s are planned to to arrive before July. Based on the current schedule LM are planning to base 3 ATR72’s at IOM from 1st July. They also plan to nighstop a further 2 ATR72’s at ABZ and LSI.

[El Bunto]

callsign operated freighter AT72 EI-SLW between EGNX and EGAA today apparently on the Amazon contract for ASL, who own the airframe. Not sure if this will be an ongoing arrangement, if so it will end RVL Aviation's short spell on the contract with their SAAB.

Edit: been told that it may not have been a Logan crew

ASL haven't run one of their ATRs on the route since ( full ) Brexit.

[JSCL]

RVL Saab is due to take over from the current aircraft operating the DHL flights to/from IOM in the near future. So it already has a planned future use.

[allan1987]

Loganair Moving flights from City Of Derry to Stansted to Heathrow?
Seems to be added on Heathrow Timetable LDY-LHR from 28 May

Arrive LHR 09:05 Depart 10:30
Arrive LHR 19:05 Depart 19:40

2 times day daily

flights not on booking engine yet

[Fly757X]

allan1987

Looks like it indeed. FRI showing as operating 3 times from the start of July.

[Alteagod]

Fantastic if it has. Don't they code share with BA?

[VickersVicount]

Not always. On select routes only. I doubt any of the rash of new routes will from the outset.

[Fly757X]

By the looks of things most of the BA services are covered using the current LM offering into LHR.

Here’s hoping this doesn’t change.

[tigertanaka]

A lot of the Scottish services do have a BA code (when connecting onto a BA flight). IOM-LHR, SOU-NCL, SOU-EDI, SOU-GLA all have BA codeshares (as did MAN-GLA I think) but MME-LHR doesn't (although it is still early days). I guess it depends if BA feels that LDY is a threat to their BHD route and if MME is a threat to NCL? However, LM have got the LHR slots from somewhere and in the grand scheme of things, LM are not going to take much away from BA.

[Fly757X]

Yeah I just realised MME-LHR isn't included there sorry. I thought I heard it was. With a maximum of 144 seats on a Friday in both directions I wouldn't be sure that they (BA) will lose sleep over it. I'm sure it'll develop from here and here's hoping that a BA codeshare is in place for both MME/LDY. The benefits to my region and LDY particularly will be profound, something completely out of the blue and hopefully the affinity the catchment here have garnered with STN over 20+ years will come across too, even if it remains almost exclusively P2P travel initially.

[01475]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-56747295

Scottish airline Loganair is to launch a service between Norwich and Exeter later this year.The route between the two cities was previously operated by Flybe before it went into administration last year.

Flights will operate four times a week from 12 July and then twice a week from September.

Loganair chief executive Jonathan Hinkles said it was "connecting two important UK business and leisure locations".

The airline also said it had brought forward the resumption of its Edinburgh to Norwich services to July instead of September as originally planned.

It means 42 of the 46 routes operated by Flybe when it collapsed in March 2020 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51749882) will be running once more by summer.

Mr Hinkles said it "shows the resilience and the importance of supporting the UK's domestic airlines".
:bored: I could be unnecessarily cynical, but I can't see this working, and wasn't it reputed to be a route that FlyBe operated by chance rather than design?

[AirportPlanner1]

I believe it was to get a jet into NWI for Med routes but actually proved quite popular and was operated during periods as a stand-alone route. It’s two university cities and a gateway to Devon (or the Broads for anyone that fancies it. Remember the land journey between the two is fairly long.

[ETOPS]

Google maps indicates 5hrs 12 min in light traffic.Given that the direct route includes a transit of the M25 then make that closer to 6 hours normally!!

[Expressflight]

I recall the loads were good when I used the Flybe NWI-EXT flights. That was on an E195 of course so it will be interesting to see how attractive are the fares on the Loganair 145.

[AirportPlanner1]

ETOPS

6? It took me more than that to get from the M25 to the edge of Exeter last summer! 5 coming back, 5 each way last time I tried a few years ago. Plus stops to eat.

[CabinCrewe]

Todays auditor reports raising concern and uncertainty about finances might put paid to anything marginal. The rapid expansion and covid were always going to cause issue. Tricky times.

[Saabdriver1]

Every airline and airport's financial reports being filed recently have the same statement about material uncertainty. It's there in the IAG and easyJet reports using almost exactly the same words. If you read the statement, it simply says that if Covid-19 goes on for ever, the business won't be viable - which is stating the obvious for pretty much the entire travel industry.

[Scottish Flyer]

I used the Exeter - Norwich route in May 2019 and the load factor was healthy (about 75%) on the EMB195. Quite a number of passengers were connecting at Exeter to and from the Skybus flights to the Scillies (as indeed I was).

[BAladdy]

LM are currently advertising for cabin crew on the IOM with the closing date for a applications of 30th April.

The schedule still shows that 3 ATR72 aircraft are planned to begin based on the IOM from 1st July. Does anyone know how many cabin crew they are looking to recruit?.


southamptonavgeek

Have heard that LM is still planning to add 3 ATR72’s between now and the beginning of July and they will lease them from Chorus Aviation.

Thr aircraft have been stored at TLS registered EI-GPN/O/P since being returned by Stobart late last year. Prior to that they were operated by BE on behalf of SK and were registered G-FBXC/D/E.

The aircraft are to undergo maintenance and lease transition checks at Exeter Aerospace Services prior to entering service. The first aircraft, EI-GPP, arrived at EXT on 13tb April. This ATR was registered G-FBXE when operated by Flybe.

[willy wombat]

Three ATR 72s operating a reasonably intensive schedule would require an establishment of about 30 cabin crew but whether these would all be IOM based only LM know.

[Atlantic Explorer]

30? That’s a bit overkill. I would doubt the establishment would be anywhere near that number.

[CandyBender]

Since LM has been on the scene in the IOM the cabin crew base has been 4 full timers with the ATR42/S2000 (single cabin crew member) covering just LCY/LHR, with crew from GLA & ABZ frequently drafted in to cover leave, shortages, sickness etc - the ATR72 needs 2 CC. I know of 1 IOM based hostie who has just left so I'd estimate a base of at least 24-25 would be needed.

[willy wombat]

With my qualification of a “reasonably intense schedule “ a reasonable rule of thumb is five crews per aircraft to allow for leave, sickness etc. Cabin crew for AT7 is 2 so 5 crews x 2 crew members x 3 aircraft equals 30 crew members. I do actually know what I’m talking about. Obviously a more relaxed schedule would need less crews. Obviously if LM prefer to cover leave, sickness etc from GLA then you need less IOM based crews.

[BAladdy]

LM have recent days removed from sale there flights from both NCL and EDI to BGO and SVG.

[davidjohnson6]

Norway has indicated that it will not be particularly easy for those who are neither citizens or residents to enter Norway for a number of months. Loganair may have taken this into account in their decision on routes between the UK and Norway

[cumbrianboy]

When Stobart had the base there were easily 20+ cabin crew (more I think) to cover 2 based aircraft and a similar number of pilots ... so I think the comment above is pretty fair an accurate, you can slightly reduce the number of standbys etc with more aircraft but at 3 based units the economies of scale are not huge.

[Fly757X]

According to planespotters.net G-SAJB/JU have both been permanently withdrawn from service and will not be returning after their stints out of service last year. This is inline with a previously published schedule that only displayed 2x ER3s in service operating from NCL. Hopefully this is all that is being culled at this point.

[Fly757X]

Lots of routes today have seen significant cuts today in frequency. EDI/GLA-SOU has lost around half of their services per week amongst other cuts on ABZ-BHX/MAN/NWI. GLA-BHD has been removed until September too.

In light of this it looks fair to say more of the ERJs will be pulled this summer.

A sign of things to come for W21/22 or a platform to build upon? Time will tell.

[Jamie2009]

I do feel for Loganair as it’s a good company, well run with a good brand identity but they are not going to be taking over the best ex Flybe routes.
Flybe will simply take them back and I doubt Loganair will put up much of a fight for them or any other new ones Flybe choose to fly, unless codeshares play a part. Flybe will simply undercut them and seize on their debt free advantage.

New Flybe are in a safe harbour whilst surviving airlines are out at sea facing down the coronavirus storm and suffering.
Fate is cruel as this situation is not of Loganairs making, where as Flybe got themselves in the **** over a number of years.

[highwideandugly]

You look at the Teesside routes with no passengers ..almost.Are they being massively subsided by the Teesside mayor..or are they genuinely putting their faith in a Teesside suspect business plan?

Strange and worrying times..

[BA318]

Jamie2009

I wouldn’t be so sure. It’s not cheap to launch an airline. Flybe will quickly run up costs. They will need a lot of advertising and PR given everyone thinks they are that airline which corona killed. It wasn’t a hugely popular brand either - the whole Flymaybe nickname from a lot of people. That costs money to repair that reputation.

Loganair have fought and won against Flybe before. Flybe will also be fighting others on most of the routes too - Eastern, BA Cityflyer, Blue Islands have all ramped up ops.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Let's worry about "flybe" when they launch.....if and when! MME-LHR is also intended to connect the region to the world over LHR, not something that's possible given the current market, all depends on how long they can fund a loss leader.

I agree that flyebe2 could well inflict serious damage on the survivng UK airlines.

[SealinkBF]

Winter schedule news

https://www.adsadvance.co.uk/loganair-implements-13-new-routes-and-increased-services.html

[garry8g]

New Aberdeen route starting:-

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-restores-lost-stobart-air-aberdeen-dublin-link

[virginblue]

With every new route announcement, I am worried that Loganair is overstretching itself...

Let's hope the prey is not too big to swallow for them. They are pretty much the last man standing when it comes to regional air services across the UK

[CabinCrewe]

ABZ DUB a pretty safe bet I would have thought. Some of the S340’s remaining and the ‘old’ Embs all getting long in the tooth but LM seem to be able to keep ageing aircraft alive and well so even with a stretched timetable hopefully not to many tech dramas.
Lots of these routes will chop and change over the next 12 months so probably not a huge net gain

[adfly]

To be fair, the 'old' ERJ's appear to be a good 3-4 years newer than some of the 'new' ATR42's they are getting to replace the SF340's which are only about another 3-4 years older than the ATR's are!

I also see on Jethro's that the two ex. Flybe ATR72's are due to be returned later in the year, but with 4 other ATR72-600 aircraft joining. I assume two of these are direct replacement and the other two are for the IOM operation. Wonder if they have plans to grow this fleet in the longer term - I would think routes like EDI/GLA-SOU and ABZ-MAN/BHX ultimately should be able to support the volume without them having excessive capacity.

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone know why G-RJXH never got re-registered like the other Embrears?

Also if there are any plans to finally sell the 328s?

[BA318]

Haven’t the 328s technically be for sale for a while. It’s been more a problem of there being no buyer.

[Fly757X]

It was last painted in the summer of 2018 into it's current white scheme under BMI so it simply wasn't due a paint like the rest were upon their transfer to Loganair and thus never got the opportunity to get re-registered in the process would be my interpretaton. Lack of neccesity coupled with the current climate may never see it become G-SAJE has had been widely speculated however I could very well be wrong.

[Saabdriver1]

Change is supposed to be happening fairly soon. The aircraft needs a few days on the ground for the change to happen. G-INFO is showing change of registration opened last week and due for review in two weeks time. I doubt it's been a massive priority and XH is also one of the aircraft which has been flying without much of a break.

[DaveReidUK]

If it's not a silly question, what's the significance of the G-SAJx registrations ?

[oapilot]

Scotlands Airline Jets

[SealinkBF]

Just saw this today, however it's dated 30th July. Who could he be referring to? :D

I assume that the three big low cost airlines he means are Jet 2, easyJet and Ryanair.

Airlines' biggest enemy are themselves - Loganair boss - Business Insider (https://www.insider.co.uk/news/airlines-biggest-enemy-themselves-loganair-24649581)

“In terms of the three big low cost airlines operating out of the UK, one of them is acting in a very measured and controlled way, one of them has come close to losing control and taken some pretty judicious steps to get back there, and the third one has lost control of its business and unfortunately just haven’t realised it yet."

[inOban]

What about Wizz?

[Link Kilo]

Ryanair, Wizz and Easyjet respectively was my guess on reading this.

[lfc84]

SealinkBF

I read that and thought pot, kettle, black

[SKOJB]

Maybe he should concentrate a little more on his own business and instead tackle the ridiculously high fares on many of their routes!

[davidjohnson6]

If a company has a (near) monopoly on its products - eg domestic routes within Scotland for Loganair... ridiculously expensive prices tends to be profitable. Demand might be lower, but the profit margins more than make up for it

Loganair has little reason to cut those ridiculously high fares

[Albert Hall]

I think Link Kilo probably has nailed it with the airlines and the order in which they appear in that comment.

The fares discussion is quite funny. It's not as though selling low fares on regional aircraft has worked out especially well as a business model in the UK of late. Most airline CEOs, with a few very notable and public exceptions, tend to try to find ways to increase yields rather than decrease them. I can't imagine Loganair would be any different.

[SealinkBF]

SKOJB

FlyBe did exactly that and it didn’t work.

[RA85684]

Based on albeit limited direct and indirect experience, I have to say that Mr Hinkles is a very astute businessman. He knows what he's doing, he knows how to do it and he's happy to share his knowledge and expertise - be that positive or brutally honest constructive feedback.

The high fares being charged on certain routes are what is keeping them afloat and as has been said, their is no reason to reduce those fares. They're lifeline routes and the people that use them as a lifeline are afforded discounts. The rest of the passengers can choose to pay the premium.

Just to re-post the quote in full, I think it's clear that he has a pretty damning view on easyJet and their recent practices.

“We have a number of competitors who are doing things which are bizarre - piling aircraft into the UK domestic market, flying 180 person planes with 20 to 30 passengers on board - and that is having some impact on Loganair.
“There will be questions when we will eventually get an outbreak in sanity from some of the more outlandish things that we are seeing from one carrier in particular.
“In terms of the three big low cost airlines operating out of the UK, one of them is acting in a very measured and controlled way, one of them has come close to losing control and taken some pretty judicious steps to get back there, and the third one has lost control of its business and unfortunately just haven’t realised it yet."

Loganair really do know what they're doing, they're a good balance of optimistic and risk averse. I think they could possibly have done more to gain traction after the demise of Flybe and take on some of the key routes that worked for them, but other than that they seem to be doing all the right things and plus, we had a pandemic that put paid to most growth opportunities.

I hope to see Logan and British Airways work together in the future. I do believe Cityflyer and Loganair in particular could be a very good partnership in certain niche areas. I wish their foray into Teesside the best as well, there were only 7 of us on MME-LHR on Friday (16 on MME-BRS, and a decent amount seemed to get off ABZ-MME) but I was told things are picking up - "sometimes we have double figures." I hope there's more to come from Loganair at Newcastle too, there are a few gaps they could fill quite nicely and I'm sure their Scottish work will remain as strong as ever.

Very pleased to see that service has returned to Loganair as well and I must say Teesside is one of the best UK airport experiences I think I've ever had.

[garry8g]

Loganair's latest ATR 72-600, G-LMTA was delivered into Aberdeen last night(19th). This is the replacement for G-FBXA, with the replacement for G-FBXB due next month.

[Atlantic Explorer]

where are XA and XB going?

[jethro15]

Return to lessor Nov/Dec
Loganair Fleet List (jethros.org.uk) (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/loganair.htm)

[SWBKCB]

Loganair is so far the only airline to receive money from a £4.5m Department for the Economy scheme to support Northern Ireland’s domestic air connectivity, Business Telegraph can reveal. The Scottish airline told the Belfast Telegraph it has received money for four Belfast City Airport routes under the NI Domestic Aviation Kickstart Scheme (NIDAKS), which closes in less than a fortnight. It flies to Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Teesside International in England from Belfast.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/one-airline-has-benefitted-from-45m-stormont-fund-40961016.html

[davidjpowell]

My first flight with LA couple of weeks ago on an ATR72.

Was surprised to receive a snack and drink (well a biscuit and a beaker of water), although that did not really make up for the mugging that the corporate credit card took.

They were very strict that Bluetooth was not to be used. Not sure what that was all about, but rather murdered the point of my noise-canceling headphones.

[geardown1]

The bluetooth policy stems from Saab themselves, Crossair 498 crash had many theories that led to phone interference (hence the original ban) and Saab then never certified the 340s for use with bluetooth and still haven't, so LM has a blanket ban on it. However there was quiet talks about LM trying to get the paperwork for the other fleets in order soon enough to allow. Free inflight serviced with added hot and cold drinks fully resumed yesterday which is good.

[Cat Techie]

Would agree on your assessment of the CEO. Traction after the fall of Flybe however was not possible as every airport had stopped bar essential travel. I did enjoy the cup of tea on my last flight.

[Cat Techie]

How many airlines have a good balance sheet at the moment? Loganair were flying aircraft when most other pax operators were virtually stopped operating. Remember that trains and busus were bankrolled by Government. Airlines were not.

[Cat Techie]

Because all of Loganair's aircraft are not certified to have any other radio devices operating on them bar the certified equipment on board. Blue Tooth is transmitted radio waves is it not? True the chances of intervference are tiny, but are still there.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

G-FBXA routing MAN-EXT tonight, end of lease return?

[SealinkBF]

EDI LDY announced by Loganair.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-to-add-edinburgh-derry-route

[jethro15]

G-FBXA routing MAN-EXT tonight, end of lease return?
That's Correct

[BA318]

Aurigny, Loganair and Blue Islands announce a partnership. Quite wide ranging from codeshares through to joint purchasing.

https://www.blueislands.com/news/posts/2021/november/new-partnership-brings-boost-for-uk-regional-air-connectivity/

[wanna]

Excellent news, three operators who all have a niche market, fairly strong branding / good reputation within their local markets, (especially so for Aurigny and LM and extremely long history too) who will no doubt be able to contribute massively to the regional market. A shame not much of a NI / Irish representation though. Will no doubt impact the viablity of the comeback of Flybe also.

[SealinkBF]

Has anyone watched the new Loganair advert?

Two very creepy looking teddy bears- especially the last shot!

Loganair - Christmas Ad 2021 - YouTube

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1184x521/teddy_e5c330437ad75184fd53bd409cdb838c656a8bb9.jpg

[Breathe]

They look like a couple of bouncers I saw outside a club I walked past last weekend. :)

[garry8g]

Loganair's latest ATR 72-600, G-LMTC was delivered into Aberdeen Tuesday night(25th). This is the replacement for G-FBXB.

A further two ATR 72-600's (G-LMTD & G-LMTE) are due February & March 22.

[BAladdy]

Loganair and British Airways have today announced a expansion of there codeshare agreement.

https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/latest-news/2022/british-airways-and-loganair-expand-codeshare-agreement/

The new agreement will see the number of routes increase from 20 to 38. The new routes added to the agreement are:

Aberdeen to Belfast City, Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester, Norwich and Southampton
Derry to London Stansted and Liverpool
Edinburgh to Exeter, Isle of Man and Norwich
Glasgow to Exeter
Inverness to Birmingham
Isle of Man to Birmingham and Manchester
Newcastle to Exeter
Newquay to Manchester
Teeside to Southampton

Does anyone know what the 20 routes that BA already codeshare with LM?

[CabinCrewe]

aren't all the islands included eg Stornoway, Lerwick etc ?

[BAladdy]

aren't all the islands included eg Stornoway, Lerwick etc ?
Yes it does. The routes listed are just the new ones added today.

[BAladdy]

aren't all the islands included eg Stornoway, Lerwick etc ?
Here is a list of all the routes i believe are covered as part the agreement:

Aberdeen to/from: Belfast City, Birmingham, Bristol, Kirkwall, Manchester, Norwich, Southampton and Sumburgh

Derry to/from: Liverpool and London Stansted

Edinburgh to/from: Exeter, Isle of Man, Kirkwall, Norwich, Southampton, Stornaway and Sumburgh

Glasgow to/from: Benbecula, Exeter, Islay, Kirkwall, Norwich, Southampton, Stornaway and Sumburgh

Isle of Man to/from: Birmingham and Manchester

Inverness to/from: Benbecula, Birmingham, Kirkwall, Manchester, Stornaway and Sumburgh

Newcastle to/from: Exeter and Southampton

Newquay to/from: Manchester

Teeside to/from: London Heathrow and Southampton

[SealinkBF]

Happy 60th!

https://www.loganair.co.uk/campaign/our-story-60th-anniversary/?gclid=CjwKCAiAo4OQBhBBEiwA5KWu_4qW2Q0sB4sfOma7chyOBwXoq2iHo aIpiT9h-4fGr-bXKZuwZ7HiVRoCkWAQAvD_BwE

[garry8g]

Loganair's latest ATR 72-600, G-LMTD was delivered into Aberdeen yesterday(18th).

I also see that 4 further ATR72-500F are on order, with 2 due in April, and a further 2 due in August. (Courtesy of Jethros)

[SealinkBF]

Loganair introduces "islander" discounts for ADS members.

Loganair launches new islander discount - The Orcadian Online (https://www.orcadian.co.uk/loganair-launches-new-islander-discount/)

Additional ADS discount in place from Sumburgh | The Shetland Times Ltd (https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2022/07/18/additional-ads-discount-in-place-from-sumburgh)

Also available from Stornoway but can't see a link to an article.

[CabinCrewe]

Loganair introduces "islander" discounts for ADS members.

Loganair launches new islander discount - The Orcadian Online (https://www.orcadian.co.uk/loganair-launches-new-islander-discount/)

Additional ADS discount in place from Sumburgh | The Shetland Times Ltd (https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2022/07/18/additional-ads-discount-in-place-from-sumburgh)

Also available from Stornoway but can't see a link to an article.
Think I thought they were already heavily discounted.

[SealinkBF]

Think I thought they were already heavily discounted.

These are further discounts

[VickersVicount]

I couldn’t recall if the ultimate fleet plan was to replace everything with ATRs… was that the case? The Emb145 I was on this week was ‘knackered’ with bits of seats duct taped, badly worn leather, blue ex BMI external paint showing, ‘painted’ fold down tables and a whistling door seal. Very swift trip though and sprightly performance which as a jet I doubt could be matched by ATR. Hopefully ATR has bigger overhead bins for what was apparently allowed on…

[Fly757X]

I couldn’t recall if the ultimate fleet plan was to replace everything with ATRs… was that the case? The Emb145 I was on this week was ‘knackered’ with bits of seats duct taped, badly worn leather, blue ex BMI external paint showing, ‘painted’ fold down tables and a whistling door seal. Very swift trip though and sprightly performance which as a jet I doubt could be matched by ATR. Hopefully ATR has bigger overhead bins for what was apparently allowed on…

The initial press releases in 2018 suggested that eventually this would be the case.

Recent video interviews I had seen from 2021 mentioned that they see a purpose for both alongside eachother due to sector lengths etc. The 135s were in the process of being sold recently but G-SAJH was recently also in the paint shop to receive a Tartan tail, Red engines etc so the frames to remain are seeing some investment.

A bit of work inside wouldn’t go as miss as you’ve said however. I remember G-SAJG being particularly poor back in its old BMI days.

[mullac30]

I wonder if they might consider the 70-seat version of the new Embraer turboprop once it has been launched (next year), it looks like it could strike a good balance between economics and performance. Seems like they could be a good choice as a long term replacement for the ERJs once they reach the 30 year old mark.

[VickersVicount]

I wonder if they might consider the 70-seat version of the new Embraer turboprop once it has been launched (next year), it looks like it could strike a good balance between economics and performance. Seems like they could be a good choice as a long term replacement for the ERJs once they reach the 30 year old mark.
Quite a jump in capacity from ERJs for something brand new which would be a huge investment that I doubt they could afford. Can’t immediately think of a similar size little jet now or pending (if indeed a jet is needed for longer routes)

[Saabdriver1]

Last E135 leaving the operation this month. E145s will be around for the foreseeable and project starting/started around interior refurb and basic weight reductions for the 145 aircraft - understand it's a bit more complicated than it sounds due to having to refurb seats instead of being able to get new ones as for the Saab 340s a few years ago.

[CabinCrewe]

Slightly ‘woke’ fly on the wall BBC3 style Loganair fly on the wall show on iPlayer ‘Sky High Club’ something different and some nice aerial shots but not sure I’ll tune in for more.

[Jerbourg]

Slightly ‘woke’ fly on the wall BBC3 style Loganair fly on the wall show on iPlayer ‘Sky High Club’ something different and some nice aerial shots but not sure I’ll tune in for more.

I thought the programme was dire, I expected to learn something about the airline & it's ops - I was sadly wrong.
I won't be tuning in again.

[wub]

I thought the programme was dire, I expected to learn something about the airline & it's ops - I was sadly wrong.
I won't be tuning in again.
I turned off half way through. It painted them in a thoroughly unprofessional light. The captain pulling pranks and the cabin crew cavorting about at the seaside and bickering in their flat. What was that to do with running an airline?

[ATNotts]

I turned off half way through. It painted them in a thoroughly unprofessional light. The captain pulling pranks and the cabin crew cavorting about at the seaside and bickering in their flat. What was that to do with running an airline?
Nothing, but the narrative suits BBC3 and their target audience.

Perhaps Jonathan Hinckles might be regretting opening his doors to the production company, though they do say that all publicity is good publicity!

[wub]

Nothing, but the narrative suits BBC3 and their target audience.

Perhaps Jonathan Hinckles might be regretting opening his doors to the production company, though they do say that all publicity is good publicity!

I didn't realise it was on BBC Three. I watched it on BBC Scotland. It explains a lot but still does them no favours.

[ATNotts]

I didn't realise it was on BBC Three. I watched it on BBC Scotland. It explains a lot but still does them no favours.

If I recall correctly it was said that is is being aired on BBC Scotland but will be networked on BBC3. I could have misheard.

[SWBKCB]

Sky High Club is produced by Mentorn Scotland. The commission came from a creative partnership of BBC Three, BBC Scotland and Screen Scotland. The scheme invited local Scottish Independent production companies to pitch innovative, factual entertainment format ideas that reflect the life experiences young people, with the promise of a guaranteed series commission.

It's on BBC3 at 20.00 tomorrow - I think the programme title gives you a fair idea of the direction its going to take

[Wycombe]

Nothing, but the narrative suits BBC3 and their target audience.

Perhaps Jonathan Hinckles might be regretting opening his doors to the production company, though they do say that all publicity is good publicity!
Yes, it's clearly aimed at a BBC3 (ie, young) audience and hence feels a bit like a reality show.

I thought the 2 female CC who share a flat came across fine, said they are professional and take their job seriously when at work - and that they get frustrated at pax who don't realise they are there mainly for their safety, which seems fine to me.

Also thought that the FO with HIV came across very well - seemed professional, devoted and passionate about what he does and furthering himself - fine by me also.

Yes, the young Capt has the "gift of the gab" (by his own admission) but seemed to respect his partner (who works on the ground for the airline at LSI) and obviously is no mug if he got a captaincy at 23.

[Atlantic Explorer]

It’s dire, it really is. I’m not sure if I can say anything else about it than that.

[dcp2608]

I was very disappointed in the first episode and turned off after 10-15mins as was not what I expected

[Richard Taylor]

I've seen about half of one of the episodes - which was more than enough. Bless them, but it did put me in mind of this from the 90s:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwipt_DC3s_5AhWwQEEAHYNvBHoQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FThe_High_Life_(B ritish_TV_series)&usg=AOvVaw1jM95fyfKSHVVlM2bA5rN0

:O

[SealinkBF]

Loganair have announced a reduction in some fuel surcharges, and an increase in others.

Loganair revises fuel surcharge (travelmole.com) (https://www.travelmole.com/news/loganair-revises-fuel-surcharge/)

[lfc84]

https://www.facebook.com/1081154361914621/posts/pfbid03odFs5SnBKCWBBz5fHB3Qh2zpsvHLZB2okAUBKeJTTUgZvjQc3B31U zZiN3ZsYg9l/

Vouchers and free changes due to the death

[JobsaGoodun]

I see The Times are reporting today that the Bond brothers are actively looking for a buyer for Loganair. Could we be about to see some consolidation in the UK regional market? (Link not added as behind paywall)

[BA318]

I see The Times are reporting today that the Bond brothers are actively looking for a buyer for Loganair. Could we be about to see some consolidation in the UK regional market? (Link not added as behind paywall)

its an interesting article. Apparently Loganair is debt free and profitable. Expected to sell for low tens of millions but not more because of the precarious nature of regional aviation.

[cavokblues]

Link to article avoiding the paywall here:

https://archive.ph/qD1Li

Very, very crudely dividing their revenue by pax numbers gives them an average revenue per pax of £115. Not a bad effort on predominantly UK regional routes.

[ajamieson]

My fear is that there are more cowboy venture capitalists (Flybe 2.0) ready to pounce than there are benevolent private owners willing to take it on.

[Albert Hall]

Very, very crudely dividing their revenue by pax numbers gives them an average revenue per pax of £115. Not a bad effort on predominantly UK regional routes.

They've certainly got at least four pure freight aircraft and I thought did a lot more charter stuff too - could throw that calculation off quite quickly. If that is what they get though, then yes - it is a good effort.

Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!

[cavokblues]

They've certainly got at least four pure freight aircraft and I thought did a lot more charter stuff too - could throw that calculation off quite quickly. If that is what they get though, then yes - it is a good effort.

Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!

True. Their financials are out next month and they may mention their profit per seat sold which would be more meaningful.

[caaardiff]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1831/screenshot_20221009_111459_linkedin_5da32657de1d2f6597d21949 df077c94811525f4.jpg
Response from the CEO on LinkedIn

[LTNman]

Scottish airline Loganair goes on the market https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-63194336

[TDK mk2]

Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!

Something like this occurred some weeks ago. The name of the airline wasn’t mentioned to me, but it seems likely it was LM in light of this announcement.

[ATNotts]

Something like this occurred some weeks ago. The name of the airline wasn’t mentioned to me, but it seems likely it was LM in light of this announcement.

I really do hope Loganair doesn't become another casualty of "hedge funds" or "Private Equity" sharks. It looks from what has been published that the current owners are in no desperate need of a sale so can afford to be choosy and with any luck they will go with the offer that is good for the business after they've sold it, not just for their bank accounts.

Fingers tightly crossed!

[harriewillem]

The Bond brothers kept it alive during the years, they F#cked BMI over to keep one baby alive. They will have some serious battles to fight... old fleet that majority is owned but will need to be replaced by leased new equipment... tik tok... card house waiting to collapse..

[Saabdriver1]

You've said something like that before and it's cobblers now as then!

Fleet isn't majority owned. Last Saab 340s on their way out and ATRs heading in as fast as you can count (15, I think) - which I believe are all leased.

bmi would never have survived Brexit, Covid and fuel where it is today - it was losing money when it collapsed before any of that little lot came along. It fell over because the owners declined to put any more funding into it and stopped throwing good money after bad. Strange definition of "f#cked over" but may be that's just lost in translation.

[BA318]

The Bond brothers kept it alive during the years, they F#cked BMI over to keep one baby alive. They will have some serious battles to fight... old fleet that majority is owned but will need to be replaced by leased new equipment... tik tok... card house waiting to collapse..

Did you read any of the articles. The carrier has a majority leased fleet, is debt free and doing pretty well.

[harriewillem]

Listen, I know it is not a populair statement, but they have pumped the numbers, loans out and Bond brothers kept liquidity.. however now its game on.. I want them to survive.. but the wrong part of the fleet is owned and the expensive part is leased...

Also the fleet is way to big, like back in the days with FlyBe.. economy of scale yes... but regional aviaton can not be profitable at this size when you are not an BA Cityflier or a KLM Cityhopper.. so some of the PSO in combo with ABZ ops is good but rest is shambles and we will see this soon... tik tok.. I am sorry..


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1623x1598/logan_air_15ddb339246e3fc51fd7a5e3fba17faf5dd4a00a.jpg

[Saabdriver1]

The info you have there isn't right to begin with.

Come back when you know what you're talking about, I'd suggest. Patently obvious that you don't - predicting the demise of Loganair on the first posting on this thread two years ago, and two years later, it's still here and in very good health!

[tallaonejuliet]

Seems like you have a serious axe to grind with Loganair?
BMIr was a failure long before its final demise, many refuse to believe it to this day.
No point blaming Loganair or the Bond brothers, previous owners, successive management failures and a changing market hammered in the nails.
Some of us are just happy to still have jobs in this day and age and hope things stay that way.

[Buster the Bear]

What do you replace the Embraer fleet with?

[VickersVicount]

What do you replace the Embraer fleet with?
More ATRs I suspect… even if they are slower.

[Jamesair1]

The 50% reduction in passenger tax in 2023 will surely be a big help to LM on its domestic services and help to keep it a viable operation.

[harriewillem]

Hi Guys, I have nothing against any airline but I just dont have the "pink" glasses certain people have. I do hope all people, pilots etc tec can keep their jobs.. I am just raising my concerns that they are not in that great shape as it may seem.

On the fleet side, I think the data is accurate enough, Saabdriver1 saying I am wrong, happy to be wrong but show your source in that case.

Historic I just think the Bond brothers kept the airline afloat and they saved Logan over BMI and ok, sometimes you need to make those choises.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1634x1493/logan_air_finances_81f4dd848da1b42fda0f1cc958aa0b60c7c6f5a6. jpg


I think current Logan just grew too big, and I know this a fond strategy, but you need to keep growing to stay ahead of the bills of previous years.. grow more aircraft and routes.. the bills follow.. so grow again... like Flybe did... now there more reason why they went bust... but in the basis, you can not grow forrever so at one point you need to make serious money or you start loosing serious money... and I am no advocate of closing airlines that dont make a profit for lets say one year...

But Logan at 40+ as "Scotlands Airline" is just too big and vunarouble, the Scottish essential services and the ABZ related work will work but the rest is loads of window dressing and just open to be easy killed by for example Easyjet. Logan does not have the equipment and or pockets to compete on routes. The cry wolf over the PSO I think is nice example, from tax payer perspective we dont want to pay for the PSO so if an airlines want to go comercial perfect.. but as the PSO operator dont cry..

I wish Logan well but I think they grew too big and they will have a hard time ahead, going from owned cheap metal to expensive lease, if it was that profitable and bright future the Bond brothers would not sell, they dont need the few extra pounds.

If Easyjet / BA does offer you that job tallaonejuliet I would take it.. tell the wife you will be still home many nights... just not every night.

[22/04]

I am not convinced FlyBe2 have a business strategy or if they do I don't see it, save perhaps eventually capitalising on LHR slots. I wouldn't like to see Loganair mixed up in that.

The vision surely and unique USP has to be around Scotland's Airline. Against a background of a proto independent Scotland seeking to rejoin the EU, that is a pretty strong position. Even if Scotland remains part of the U.K. it is still a USP.

[ajamieson]

But Logan at 40+ as "Scotlands Airline" is just too big and vunarouble ... The cry wolf over the PSO I think is nice example, from tax payer perspective we dont want to pay for the PSO so if an airlines want to go comercial perfect.. but as the PSO operator dont cry..
What?

[Rivet Joint]

Are they still the owner of the two Dornier 328s that have sat in Dundee for a few years? Seems a bit odd to have the expense of maintaining them rather than scrapping them.

[Alteagod]

The shortbread onboard is lovely

[Toastal]

Well, I for one don’t believe that this is any kind of coincidence with respect to timing etc. The break up of the U.K. in my opinion is now inevitable and I believe this will be the start of nest feathering for a new National Independent Scottish Airline. If the Scottish Government get involved here in any way, then that will be all the confirmation one needs. Putting that caveat on it, the lease of A220/319, E190’s to operate LHR/European routes is nowhere near beyond the realms of possibility

[ATIS31]

Well, I for one don’t believe that this is any kind of coincidence with respect to timing etc. The break up of the U.K. in my opinion is now inevitable and I believe this will be the start of nest feathering for a new National Independent Scottish Airline. If the Scottish Government get involved here in any way, then that will be all the confirmation one needs. Putting that caveat on it, the lease of A220/319, E190’s to operate LHR/European routes is nowhere near beyond the realms of possibility


I doubt the Scottish Government could ill afford to get involved pouring money into an airline after nationalising the railways

[BA318]

I doubt the Scottish Government could ill afford to get involved pouring money into an airline after nationalising the railways

Plus given they supposedly want to rejoin the EU they would need to comply with state aid rules which would be difficult for them.

[SWBKCB]

If easyJet etc don't eat them alive first...

[Saabdriver1]

The suggestion reads as though no-one else - KLM, easyJet, Ryanair, Air France and many more - would be flying to Scotland if it became independent. I can't see that will be so. Going up against all of those players would be a death-wish and this is an airline which chooses its battles rather than fighting on every possible front.

[davidjohnson6]

Countries in Europe with under 10 million population having a national airline, particularly if state owned, has a rather variable history since 2000. Yes, some like Finnair or Aer Lingus have been around for many years... but plenty of others have struggled to remain independent and financially viable.

In connecting Scotland's outlying regions, Loganair has a nice little niche, and flying thinner routes from Scotland/IOM to the rest of the British Isles should work well. Flying to Germany did not. They have a good CEO right now... but I'm very wary of a potentially state owned airline being pushed into flying to places that make for good political soundbites but are commercially lousy

[Jamesair1]

Aer Lingus, however, is a part of IAG so is probably not the best example as a surviving independent state airline.
If Scotland became independent would Loganair be able to maintain it's Newcastle base?

[SWBKCB]

Aer Lingus, however, is a part of IAG so is probably not the best example as a surviving independent state airline.
If Scotland became independent would Loganair be able to maintain it's Newcastle base?

It would depend on the Constitutional arrangement between the two newly indepentent states and what sort of Air Services agreement that they come to.

I think we've strayed far enough from reality now. :ok:

[BA318]

Loganair made a pre tax profit of £4.98millon on turnonver of £162m.

Jonathan Hinkles wrote on LinkedIn, that Loganair is the UK’s 3rd largest airline measured by flights and they have signed Loganair’s largest ever contract with a new five year agreement with a major logistics company.

[055166k]

Entire Scotland population 5.5 million. Greater London population 9.5 million. Where would you operate?

[lfc84]

Entire Scotland population 5.5 million. Greater London population 9.5 million. Where would you operate?
Depends how competitive you are or want to be

[Tonyq]

Loganair made a pre tax profit of £4.98millon on turnonver of £162m.

Jonathan Hinkles wrote on LinkedIn, that Loganair is the UK’s 3rd largest airline measured by flights and they have signed Loganair’s largest ever contract with a new five year agreement with a major logistics company.

is that really true? Is he conveniently discounting BA, TUI and the EJU/EZS bits of easyJet? Either way it’s not a very credible comment to be making.

[SWBKCB]

CAA stats for July - number of passenger flights. The number of cargo flt make no difference. Not sure why you'd want to include Austrian and Swiss airlines?

EASYJET UK LTD 24,013
BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC 18,288
JET2.COM LTD 12,070
TUI AIRWAYS LTD 8,857
LOGANAIR LTD 5,284

[BA318]

His words: “We were the third largest UK airline measured by flights in the year, safely and securely completing 48,922 sectors”

[smith]

https://ukaviation.news/bbc-to-air-a-10-part-series-following-loganair-across-busy-summer/

Don't forget the £££££MMMM's they git for this documentary that was aired on BBC Scotland earlier this year. Probably available on BBC iPlayer, a lot of flight deck footage. Its Tunnocks Caramel Wafers that you get on board not Shotbread lol. Does the money for the essential services to the remote islands come from gov.scot or gov.uk? The two "world's only" flights. Barra beach landing and world's shortest flights are always packed out during the summer. In actual fact the 1mile flight priced at £17 is one of the most expensive seats in the world per seat mile.

[inOban]

I doubt they were paid anything for taking part. It's all free advertising.

[jensdad]

https://ukaviation.news/bbc-to-air-a-10-part-series-following-loganair-across-busy-summer/

Its Tunnocks Caramel Wafers that you get on board not Shotbread lol. .... In actual fact the 1mile flight priced at £17 is one of the most expensive seats in the world per seat mile.
I flew on Logan earlier this month, and you get a choice of shortbread or Tunnocks :)
Re the £17 for the two-mile flight from Papay to Westray: it's part of a bus stop service that goes Kirkwall-Papay-Westray. There's a ferry between the two islands , so the only folks who fly just from Papay to Westray are tourists doing it purely to say they've done it. Any non-tourists who fly the route are folks flying Kirkwall to Westray or Papay to Kirkwall.

[The breeze]

https://ukaviation.news/bbc-to-air-a-10-part-series-following-loganair-across-busy-summer/

Don't forget the £££££MMMM's they git for this documentary that was aired on BBC Scotland earlier this year. Probably available on BBC iPlayer, a lot of flight deck footage. Its Tunnocks Caramel Wafers that you get on board not Shotbread lol. Does the money for the essential services to the remote islands come from gov.scot or gov.uk? The two "world's only" flights. Barra beach landing and world's shortest flights are always packed out during the summer. In actual fact the 1mile flight priced at £17 is one of the most expensive seats in the world per seat mile.


Nice one

[southamptonavgeek]

Clearly quids-in from the Flybe IOM cancellations with flights on some dates on IOM-LHR up to as much as £235 from their previous £54. Evidently not just focused on serving the island despite what Mr. Hinkles may claim!

[jensdad]

Clearly quids-in from the Flybe IOM cancellations with flights on some dates on IOM-LHR up to as much as £235 from their previous £54. Evidently not just focused on serving the island despite what Mr. Hinkles may claim!
I haven't got inside info here, but that just looks like what happens when there is a spike in demand on any route (such as when a competitor stops flying it): To anyone on the outside, it looks like the airline has put up prices, but in reality the cheapest places on the flight (aka the cheap seats) seats sell first, meaning that the more expensive places are the only ones left.

[tictack67]

Isn't this what every airline in the world does, as hotels etc do

As availability goes m the prices go up, Flybe did it too. They ain't a charity


Clearly quids-in from the Flybe IOM cancellations with flights on some dates on IOM-LHR up to as much as £235 from their previous £54. Evidently not just focused on serving the island despite what Mr. Hinkles may claim!

[Asturias56]

that model was developed by American A/L I think - its since been adopted by just about every industry that sells dated things to a lot of punters.

[southamptonavgeek]

Isn't this what every airline in the world does, as hotels etc do

As availability goes m the prices go up, Flybe did it too. They ain't a charity
Loganair are, in my opinion, particularly bad with it, though. On most of their uncontested routes the fares are extortionate and I don't believe that it can all be due to demand. I have seen similar comments from a lot of fellow regional airport users in recent months.

[SWBKCB]

Loganair are, in my opinion, particularly bad with it, though. On most of their uncontested routes the fares are extortionate and I don't believe that it can all be due to demand. I have seen similar comments from a lot of fellow regional airport users in recent months.

Is that the Loganair thats one of the longest operating UK airlines? Heaven forbid that they try and make a profit.

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

Isn't this what every airline in the world does, as hotels etc do

As availability goes m the prices go up, Flybe did it too. They ain't a charity

Ticketmaster are doing it for concert tickets now, Dynamic Pricing they call it. I managed to secure two Bruce Springsteen facevalue tkts on ticketmaster. When it came to check out they were £400 each. Ram it

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Look at LCY-LUX, theory says competition is good so BA decided to compete against long standing Luxair who not surprisingly defended the route strongly. BA had to walk away, because on many high frequency E-Jet / turboprop routes, there's only room for one operator. If you want cheap fares, then a once daily Ryanair or easyJet will work, but they are opposing models. Look at the IOM and JER to see how it plays out.

[Asturias56]

Ticketmaster are doing it for concert tickets now, Dynamic Pricing they call it. I managed to secure two Bruce Springsteen facevalue tkts on ticketmaster. When it came to check out they were £400 each. Ram it

Only 1 Bruce Springsteen and several million people would pay to see him - so unless he's (and his people) a Saint the market takes over

[virginblue]

They are a regional airline operating a fleet of mostly 33-50 seaters that almost everyone else has deemed uneconominal and obsolete. So unless they operate on subsidized routes, it should be obvious that their average ticket price has to be quite high. And even it is slightly higher than it has to be to break even, isn't that what every business should to do generate as much profit for its shareholders as it can? And as any business they have to walk a fine line - if they overcharge, they will be without customers. And those who complain need to be aware of the fact that there will not be anyone else around that could take over. They are pretty much the only regional airline left in Europe operating 50 seaters on non-subsidized routes.

[Diff Tail Shim]

They are a regional airline operating a fleet of mostly 33-50 seaters that almost everyone else has deemed uneconominal and obsolete. So unless they operate on subsidized routes, it should be obvious that their average ticket price has to be quite high. And even it is slightly higher than it has to be to break even, isn't that what every business should to do generate as much profit for its shareholders as it can? And as any business they have to walk a fine line - if they overcharge, they will be without customers. And those who complain need to be aware of the fact that there will not be anyone else around that could take over. They are pretty much the only regional airline left in Europe operating 50 seaters on non-subsidized routes.
And may long it continue.

[BA318]

Loganair's MD going for it, complete with "No more maybes" tag line on their ad.

"Loganair's 60-year history is built upon service to local communities; it's a fundamental part of what we do. Other airlines come and go.

Some promise to come back, yet tell their customers less than 72 hours before they're due to land that they've completely cancelled the routes. It's undoubtedly been a tough summer for our industry as a whole, but I'm still taken aback that any airline would or could cancel whole routes only three days before their inaugural flights are due to take off.

And so with that in mind, I'm pleased to confirm that Loganair flies daily from the Isle of Man to London Heathrow, and up to twice daily from Isle of Man to London City. [We fly to the Isle of Man from Birmingham, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester too.]

Our locally-based Isle of Man pilots and cabin crew will be delighted to welcome you aboard a Loganair aircraft, maintained by our great team of Isle of Man-based engineers. With same-ticket onward connections at Heathrow to several of the world's major airlines, we're truly in it for the long haul - just like our commitment to the communities we serve."

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonathan-hinkles-31116a26_flyloganair-tartanarmy-activity-6992557623266918400-s54m?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

[ATNotts]

BA318,

You rarely see many more open goals than the one he was shooting into!

[Wycombe]

BA318,

You rarely see many more open goals than the one he was shooting into!
Disappointing to see folks again baying for the failure of Flybe Mk2.

I get that there are people with axes to grind in relation to the previous business (some for very personal reasons), but the way some take delight in the troubles/failure of others is really not a good look!

Do you really think that they wanted to end up in the situation they find themselves (primarily, it seems to me, let down by suppliers)?

[BA318]

Disappointing to see folks again baying for the failure of Flybe Mk2.

I get that there are people with axes to grind in relation to the previous business (some for very personal reasons), but the way some take delight in the troubles/failure of others is really not a good look!

Do you really think that they wanted to end up in the situation they find themselves (primarily, it seems to me, let down by suppliers)?

It's not people baying for their failure. It's just most of this was said from the beginning as likely to happen and we were shot down and told Flybe had their pick of the planes and everything was great. The reality it seems is they have no choice, lessors who don't seem to be particularly efficient (other carriers seem to have fewer problems sourcing aircraft - Emerald, Wideroe just got a new (2nd hand) Q400. At the end of the day Flybe picked who they would do business with. They chose these lessors. This is now the 2nd or 3rd time they have cancelled routes because of no aircraft. Even after cancelling these routes they are still having big issues with lots of cancelations and delays on the rest of the network.

Flybe are also trying to cause trouble for other carriers who've stuck around and worked hard. Look at Loganair. What was the point in trying to go up against them on the IOM routes? It just seems designed to become a pain in the hope someone buys them out.

[ATNotts]

Disappointing to see folks again baying for the failure of Flybe Mk2.

I get that there are people with axes to grind in relation to the previous business (some for very personal reasons), but the way some take delight in the troubles/failure of others is really not a good look!

Do you really think that they wanted to end up in the situation they find themselves (primarily, it seems to me, let down by suppliers)?

You will understand from my postings on the Flybe thread that I have been much more often supportive of their efforts to build a viable business, but that really doesn't mean that when they do something so obviously crass as pull an operating 72 hours before its inauguration comment shouldn't be passed. Loganair, as their release shows were shooting at an open goal, and when all is said and done, why shouldn't they, business is business.

[cavokblues]

The full accounts are up on Companies House.

Some bits from it:

LF is 47%,
910,119 scheduled pax carried.
Contract and charter work makes up 20% of their turnover.
Gross profit £17.8m

Some very crude analysis - if you take the 20% from contract and charter work off their turnover then scheduled flying is losing them quite a bit of money. No contract and charter work and that £17.8m gross profit becomes a £14.5m loss.

They're making revenue per pax of about £142, which is to be commended.

[22/04]

Some very crude analysis - if you take the 20% from contract and charter work off their turnover then scheduled flying is losing them quite a bit of money. No contract and charter work and that £17.8m gross profit becomes a £14.5m loss.Some very crude analysis - if you take the 20% from contract and charter work off their turnover then scheduled flying is losing them quite a bit of money. No contract and charter work and that £17.8m gross profit becomes a £14.5m loss.

Have you factored any contribution made when operating PSO s into that?

I really don't understand why there are many regional jets (admittedly mostly CRJs but some Embraer's) operating in the US by airlines like Endeavour and mostly in alliance with majors? How is the business model so different to Europe.

[SWBKCB]

Similarly, much of the contact and charter flying is done by the same a/c and crew as the scheduled services, so the position isn't as simple as that - which cavokblues has acknowledged

[Albert Hall]

Some very crude analysis - if you take the 20% from contract and charter work off their turnover then scheduled flying is losing them quite a bit of money. No contract and charter work and that £17.8m gross profit becomes a £14.5m loss.

Surely you'd have to take off the operating costs of the contract and charter flying - this assumes you'd still be doing all of the flying and incurring the costs even with no revenue, which logically no-one would do? From a quick read, I don't think it's possible to come up with any meaningful analysis, which is probably exactly why the accounts are presented in the way they are!

[cavokblues]

Have you factored any contribution made when operating PSO s into that?

I really don't understand why there are many regional jets (admittedly mostly CRJs but some Embraer's) operating in the US by airlines like Endeavour and mostly in alliance with majors? How is the business model so different to Europe.

I've a few friends who have worked in the US on regionals and from speaking to them I would suspect crew at Loganair are paid more than what they are over there . And I would imagine a lot of those regional airlines are feeding their associated majors at their big hubs.

[cavokblues]

Surely you'd have to take off the operating costs of the contract and charter flying - this assumes you'd still be doing all of the flying and incurring the costs even with no revenue, which logically no-one would do? From a quick read, I don't think it's possible to come up with any meaningful analysis, which is probably exactly why the accounts are presented in the way they are!

Fair points. I was hoping the accounts would have broken down their revenue by charter / freight work and pax.

[inOban]

Presumably the contract flying includes patient transport under an NHS contract. This will be on normal scheduled services.

[inOban]

Loganair are terminating services between Edinburgh and Derry from January 3, citing rising fuel costs and competition from LCCs from Belfast. Increasing flights from Derry to Glasgow.

[CabinCrewe]

Loganair are terminating services between Edinburgh and Derry from January 3, citing rising fuel costs and competition from LCCs from Belfast. Increasing flights from Derry to Glasgow.
Which makes no sense?

[tallaonejuliet]

Which makes no sense?

Makes sense to consolidate into one route to be honest, Glasgow has stronger historical and cultural links to the northwestern part of Ulster & Ireland.
The Glenshane Pass is still a pain in the rear end in the winter!

[runway30]

The full accounts are up on Companies House.

Some bits from it:

LF is 47%,
910,119 scheduled pax carried.
Contract and charter work makes up 20% of their turnover.
Gross profit £17.8m

Some very crude analysis - if you take the 20% from contract and charter work off their turnover then scheduled flying is losing them quite a bit of money. No contract and charter work and that £17.8m gross profit becomes a £14.5m loss.

They're making revenue per pax of about £142, which is to be commended.

How is the part time Accountancy job going?

[Richard Taylor]

LOG to acquire up to 8 ATRs (doesn't say split between 42/72 unless I've missed it) to replace the remaining 8 Saab 340Bs, which seem to have been sold/disposed stateside over the coming months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-63503449

[CabinCrewe]

Interesting. I was sure someone said the ATRs were unable to have the capability like for like with the Saabs for eg crosswind landings. Perhaps they have now revised after a few years experience. Wonder what will ultimately replace the Embs

[geardown1]

Interesting. I was sure someone said the ATRs were unable to have the capability like for like with the Saabs for eg crosswind landings. Perhaps they have now revised after a few years experience. Wonder what will ultimately replace the Embs

Initially thought the same but the ATR 42 actually has a higher crosswind limit than the Saab. 42knots vs 35knots if I remember correctly, I was quite surprised!

[Tonyq]

LOG to acquire up to 8 ATRs (doesn't say split between 42/72 unless I've missed it) to replace the remaining 8 Saab 340Bs, which seem to have been sold/disposed stateside over the coming months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-63503449

Isn’t a bit odd to commit to such a substantial investment a very short time after putting the business up for sale? What if potential new owners see a different way forward?

[gham89]

I wonder how "new" these 8 will be. The previous batch were not much newer than the aircraft they were replacing.

[runway30]

Isn’t a bit odd to commit to such a substantial investment a very short time after putting the business up for sale? What if potential new owners see a different way forward?
My understanding is that they want an owner who will maintain Loganair's position as a provider of essential air services in Scotland.

By deciding on fleet renewal before disposal they are indicating that if you want to be the custodian of this business you will follow our plan because our plan is best.

[Saabdriver1]

It's more likely that this has been the plan for some time and only being made public now. You don't pull together an entire sale of the Saab 340s and lease replacement ATRs in the space of a couple of weeks.

Operating crosswind limit on the 42s is the same as the 340 at 35kts. 72 is 27kts on a wet runway.

[runway30]

It's more likely that this has been the plan for some time and only being made public now. You don't pull together an entire sale of the Saab 340s and lease replacement ATRs in the space of a couple of weeks.

Operating crosswind limit on the 42s is the same as the 340 at 35kts. 72 is 27kts on a wet runway.
Saabdriver, I absolutely agree with you, the fleet renewal plan should have been in progress for some time. However the timing of the sale wasn't forced on the owners, that is entirely their decision.

[BA318]

Loganair said they didn’t expect a sale until much later next year so it’s not unreasonable to continue running the carrier as normal in the meantime. Any new buyer would do their due diligence and be aware of any commitments the carrier has made before making their decision on whether or not to purchase.

[ATNotts]

Loganair said they didn’t expect a sale until much later next year so it’s not unreasonable to continue running the carrier as normal in the meantime. Any new buyer would do their due diligence and be aware of any commitments the carrier has made before making their decision on whether or not to purchase.

Since the current owners of Loganair don't need to sell, they want to sell, so they should be able to be picky as regards who buys the business, and could take into account not just the best price, but what is also best for the business, its customers and its employees so carrying forward their current strategy appears a thoroughly sensible move.

It is to be hoped that the sale doesn't wind up being to "vulture" capitalists or a private equity firm, again particularly for the well being and employment security of the staff.

[fjencl]

How many seats does the loganair ATR42 have and is it a 1 cabin crew or 2 cabin crew that loganair have operating on the ATR42

Thanks

[runway30]

How many seats does the loganair ATR42 have and is it a 1 cabin crew or 2 cabin crew that loganair have operating on the ATR42

ThanksCrew: 2 pilots 1 cabin crew

Capacity: 48

Seat pitch: 30in

Range: 825mi 1326km

Cruise speed: 350mph 563km/h

[virginblue]

It's more likely that this has been the plan for some time and only being made public now. You don't pull together an entire sale of the Saab 340s and lease replacement ATRs in the space of a couple of weeks.

Operating crosswind limit on the 42s is the same as the 340 at 35kts. 72 is 27kts on a wet runway.

Didn't British World have some operational issues with their ATR72 when operating into Shetland? Or was this mainly a Scatsta issue?

[DC3 Dave]

https://apple.news/ArLCfRmGQR5axqpm4VH3o-A

[CabinCrewe]

https://apple.news/ArLCfRmGQR5axqpm4VH3o-A
Wonder what they’ll do with that? Presumably they’ll want significant return on that sort of investment.

[tictack67]

Wonder what they’ll do with that? Presumably they’ll want significant return on that sort of investment.

You are confused. They were awarded the slots, they've not bought them.

[CabinCrewe]

You are confused. They were awarded the slots, they've not bought them.
The investment has been the 18 months they’ve paid to lease the until permanent award now which will need a return. Whether the IOM route last is where the only confusion lies..

[Flightrider]

What do you mean by leasing slots over 18 months? I don't think that's what they have done....

[SealinkBF]

https://apple.news/ArLCfRmGQR5axqpm4VH3o-A

Loganair isn't new to Heathrow though...

[wanna]

Loganair isn't new to Heathrow though...

'New' in that they now have the slots themselves rather than using the COVID waiver slots from other airlines. Same for Flybe, they didn't actually have the slots in the way LM have... hence how they can be the 'first' in 28 years. All very 'technical'.

[SealinkBF]

Loganair have launched a route pass covering the following routes:

Edinburgh - Southampton
Glasgow - Southampton
Aberdeen - Teesside
Aberdeen - Manchester
Aberdeen - Birmingham

I think Eastern offer something similar. Prices are geared towards business travellers!

Business Connect Plus (loganair.co.uk) (https://www.loganair.co.uk/campaign/business-connect-plus/?utm_campaign=Business-Connect-Fare-&utm_medium=email&utm_source=MKDB)

[CandyBender]

Talks ongoing re IOM-LHR, currently not bookable beyond March '23.....https://gef.im/2022/11/22/loganair-heathrow-talks-continuing/

[pabely]

Do they own the LHR slots ?

[Diff Tail Shim]

Do they own the LHR slots ?
I think they do.

[BA318]

Do they own the LHR slots ?

They do from S23. They were awarded them recently.
https://airwaysmag.com/london-heathrow-welcomes-first-new-british-airline/

[EGPO]

I was just wondering about Loganair, regards their jet fleet.
They have the E135/145, but I wondered if they were the ones operating the Eastern E170, I only ask as I read somewhere, Loganair had some involvement .

Also, Would the Ejets , be a good fit for Loganair?.
It might enable them to offer , European destinations, even ' Holiday ' destinations , with the E190/E175 types.

Plus larger capacity from Glasgow , Edinburgh, Inverness etc , into LHR , rather than the Tiny ATR.
I'm not an expert on these matters, but do wonder if going forward, having the flexibility , to grow , but keeping to smaller sized Jet aircraft .
Especially, as the E135/E145, are getting rather old now .

[SWBKCB]

I was just wondering about Loganair, regards their jet fleet.
They have the E135/145, but I wondered if they were the ones operating the Eastern E170, I only ask as I read somewhere, Loganair had some involvement .

Also, Would the Ejets , be a good fit for Loganair?.
It might enable them to offer , European destinations, even ' Holiday ' destinations , with the E190/E175 types.

Plus larger capacity from Glasgow , Edinburgh, Inverness etc , into LHR , rather than the Tiny ATR.
I'm not an expert on these matters, but do wonder if going forward, having the flexibility , to grow , but keeping to smaller sized Jet aircraft .
Especially, as the E135/E145, are getting rather old now .

Loganair have stated that the Atr is the future. They have no interest in operating trunk routes like Glasgow or Edinburgh to LHR.

As far as I am aware they had no involvement with the Eastern E170

[BA318]

The E135s are going/gone. The remaining Saabs will be replaced by recently ordered ATRs. No announcement has been made about the E145.

The E170 hasn’t operated for them and they have shown no interest in anything bigger than the ATR.

[willy wombat]

If you go back to when BA bought BCAL, Loganair was one of the airlines that applied to the CAA to replace BCAL on GLA/EDI to LGW. To bolster their case they acquired two 146s with which they proposed to operate the routes. However the route licences were awarded to Air UK instead and Loganair were stuck with the 146s which, IIRC, they mainly operated out of MAN. I think I can say with certainty that that was the end of Loganair’s interest in Scotland - London routes.

[BA318]

If you go back to when BA bought BCAL, Loganair was one of the airlines that applied to the CAA to replace BCAL on GLA/EDI to LGW. To bolster their case they acquired two 146s with which they proposed to operate the routes. However the route licences were awarded to Air UK instead and Loganair were stuck with the 146s which, IIRC, they mainly operated out of MAN. I think I can say with certainty that that was the end of Loganair’s interest in Scotland - London routes.

I wouldn’t say they have no interest in Scotland - London routes. They are currently operating Dundee to LCY and offering one stop to Kirkwall and Sumburgh. But I wouldn’t expect them to go up against BA on Glasgow or Edinburgh to London and especially not LHR. But Scot Airways held its own on LCY-EDI for years.

[willy wombat]

Fair point.

[virginblue]

Also, Would the Ejets , be a good fit for Loganair?.
It might enable them to offer , European destinations, even ' Holiday ' destinations , with the E190/E175 types.


Didn't they quite categorically rule out EVER retrurning to the continent as routes inaugurated following Flybe's demise almost broke Loganair's back?

[Saabdriver1]

Loganair technically does still fly to “the Continent” as Denmark was attached to it last time I was there! Norway also is quite a sizeable operation now.

There were a few routes to Düsseldorf (GLA) and Brussels (NCL and EMA) launched post-bmi Regional that did not work and were dropped when Flybe went bust, with capacity moved to vacant domestic routes.

GLA-DUS was really tough going with ATC delays every day, a baggage loader taking a large chunk off an E145 wing one day and generally all too difficult. Don’t recall NCL-BRU being as troublesome but still obviously not as good as using the aircraft on Southampton and Exeter.

And I think there is no chance of E-Jets. Why would you want to go into direct competition with the big boys?

[BA318]

Loganair has launched a podcast. It can be found here: https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/flightlog-podcast/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=podcast%20announce

[VickersVicount]

interesting to know who said podcast is aimed at (on an effort/cost/return basis) :confused:

[Atlantic Explorer]

Loganair has launched a podcast. It can be found here: https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/flightlog-podcast/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=podcast%20announce

Hopefully better viewing than the recent tv series!

[harriewillem]

Alltough I am critical on the future, here some nice award for them: Loganair named Regional Airline of the Year | Scottish Financial News (https://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/articles/loganair-named-regional-airline-of-the-year)

[N707ZS]

I see Loganair are having a C check performed on an ERJ 145 by Willis at Teesside, where did they used to go before?

[VickersVicount]

Lisbon or Bangor

[N707ZS]

Teesside a bit closer than those two.

[Jamesair1]

Especially for the 2 ERJ 145's to be based in NCL

[SealinkBF]

FlyBe Heathrow slots should go to Loganair, says Willie Walsh

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/flybe-heathrow-slots-should-not-go-to-british-airways-argues-iata-chief

[Letsflycwl]

Be great if Loganair could start x2 flights a day between EDI & CWL….surely there is a market and need for day return flights??

Wishful thinking too but be great to have a GLA link too !!

[L1011effoh]

Be great if Loganair could start x2 flights a day between EDI & CWL….surely there is a market and need for day return flights??

Wishful thinking too but be great to have a GLA link too !!
From your username, I guess you would like more flights to and from Cardiff. However I suspect that EZY's services to EDI and GLA from BRS mean that the market is well served and thus it's not worth Loganair putting any more flights on. It's quick and easy to drive (or get public transport) to Bristol for most people in South Wales. I know someone planning to visit Swansea University who is flying into Bristol because the public transport links are so much more convenient than from Cardiff. So yes, I agree with you that it is wishful thinking.

[FRatSTN]

Be great if Loganair could start x2 flights a day between EDI & CWL….surely there is a market and need for day return flights??

Wishful thinking too but be great to have a GLA link too !!

I'm surprised no one has picked up the EMA-GLA and EMA-EDI routes, especially the latter. Have operated up to 4 or 5 times daily in the fairly recent past pre-covid.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The GLA/EDI-MAN/EMA routes seem to be dead alongside LBA. Trains are better, in person business meetings remain semi frowned upon for reasons of cost as online meetings are commonplace.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Trains could arguably be considered better by some if they actually operated. However, constant cancellations have afflicted the Manchester Airport to Scotland services for a considerable period of time now. Transpennine Express performance has been lamentable, and not just on strike days.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The other reason Scotland-MAN died was that there's almost no feed in MAN. Business Air were Lufthansa feeders, Loganair had their own mini-hub and BA fed European bound passengers from Scotland via based fleets at MAN/BHX. Lufthansa now serves both GLA/EDI on their own metal, BA were beaten in the regions and what was left of Loganair's original hub was killed off when BA closed their MAN base. Not sure Logan have the critical mass to make MAN work as a hub given the current environment sadly.

Of course flybe flew the routes when they bought BACON but God only knows if they were worth flying by then....

[Diff Tail Shim]

Lisbon or Bangor
Try Vilnius. OGMA or Bangor have not been used in a long time.

[chuboy]

Flights between Glasgow and Donegal have resumed after a hiatus of a few years. Sat and Sun on the ATR42 to begin with, over the summer from July to September.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Flights between Glasgow and Donegal have resumed after a hiatus of a few years. Sat and Sun on the ATR42 to begin with, over the summer from July to September.
Well done on the observation.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Thanks for sharing @chuboy I'd be tempted to visit this summer as I have never been. Used to be the LC903/904 on the SD360 when I was at school!

[SealinkBF]

Loganair will suspend flights between Inverness and some island airports for at least six weeks, as a result of industrial action at the Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd (HIAL)

Loganair suspends island flights amid Hial industrial action - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-64837273)

[adfly]

Jethro's showing that Loganair are expecting a further 8 ATR's this year - 4x 42-5/600's and 4x 72-600's.

The same list suggests there are 5x Saab 340's still in service, so assuming they are replaced by some of these then the fleet will grow by 3x aircraft.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Jethro's showing that Loganair are expecting a further 8 ATR's this year - 4x 42-5/600's and 4x 72-600's.

The same list suggests there are 5x Saab 340's still in service, so assuming they are replaced by some of these then the fleet will grow by 3x aircraft.

More Embraers going.

[BOHEuropean]

More Embraers going.

Any word on which ones will be retiring? These would be the first ERJ-145 retirements of Loganair.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Any word on which ones will be retiring? These would be the first ERJ-145 retirements of Loganair.

Rumours of INV going all ATR.

[Saabdriver1]

INV is going all ATR - the Embraer from INV is moving to EDI as a third based a/c.

Suspect the issue is just that Jethros website lists too many ATRs arriving - sure as I can be that there are five to come to replace the last five 340s. There's no change to the 145 fleet size and spending on FMS, ADS-B and a cabin refresh all happening.

[fjencl]

Will INV be a ATR 72-600 ONLY base.

[garry8g]

INV is going all ATR - the Embraer from INV is moving to EDI as a third based a/c.

Suspect the issue is just that Jethros website lists too many ATRs arriving - sure as I can be that there are five to come to replace the last five 340s. There's no change to the 145 fleet size and spending on FMS, ADS-B and a cabin refresh all happening.

Three are to replace Saab 340's which have already departed at the start of the winter season.

[ATIS31]

When is the last scheduled flight using the Saab ?

[Rivet Joint]

Be interesting to see what they do with GLA/EDI to SOU long term. Obviously different times but BE were flying 80 seaters the same frequency instead of the 50 seat ERJs. Not sure whether the AR72 is quick enough to be suitable for those routes and the ERJ is very cramp and means high ticket prices. I suppose a small fleet of ERJ 170/175s would mean another sub-fleet.

[LGS6753]

Trades unions holding remote communities to ransom:
https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/airlines-lessors/flights-scottish-island-communities-face-suspension

[Hial Flyer]

Be interesting to see what they do with GLA/EDI to SOU long term. Obviously different times but BE were flying 80 seaters the same frequency instead of the 50 seat ERJs. Not sure whether the AR72 is quick enough to be suitable for those routes and the ERJ is very cramp and means high ticket prices. I suppose a small fleet of ERJ 170/175s would mean another sub-fleet.

Flybe might have been using 80 seat aircraft but they were rarely full. Use the service to GLA regularily and the LM fights are busy on the E145 so they obviously have the right number of seats available.Yes more expensive but the cheap fares are one of the reasons why FLYBE are no longer here. The AT72 seems to manage to BHD with Emerald ok so cant see why it wouldnt to GLA/EDI.