Loganair-3

[TartinTon]

Flybe might have been using 80 seat aircraft but they were rarely full. Use the service to GLA regularily and the LM fights are busy on the E145 so they obviously have the right number of seats available.Yes more expensive but the cheap fares are one of the reasons why FLYBE are no longer here. The AT72 seems to manage to BHD with Emerald ok so cant see why it wouldnt to GLA/EDI.

Not sure where you get your numbers from but BE were mid to high 80s LF on EDISOU in summer and low 80s LF in Winter. GLASOU about 5% below EDI. Strong numbers for a regional carrier and probably why Logan started the routes.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Not sure where you get your numbers from but BE were mid to high 80s LF on EDISOU in summer and low 80s LF in Winter. GLASOU about 5% below EDI. Strong numbers for a regional carrier and probably why Logan started the routes.
It was Loganair that started the routes in the first place, they were gifted to flybe in the whole merger and sale fiasco involving BA Connect. the ATR is going to be relatively slower but I don't see them buying Q400s so it is what it is once the ERjs go.

[Albert Hall]

Flew on the 145 recently and compared to the BA A320 on which I did the journey south, it was cheaper and far better. If I had to describe anything as cramped and expensive, it would be the A320 - and both were nearly full. Give me the 145 any day!!

[TartinTon]

It was Loganair that started the routes in the first place, they were gifted to flybe in the whole merger and sale fiasco involving BA Connect. the ATR is going to be relatively slower but I don't see them buying Q400s so it is what it is once the ERjs go.

Must have been prior to 2003 then as there's no sign of them after that date until recently.

[Flightrider]

I suppose it all depends how much of a puritanical historian you are ! Glasgow - Southampton was initially flown daily by a BUA 1-11-200 in between Gatwick sorties for many years which continued through into BCal until the early 80s.

There was a BA HS748 service which was a Glasgow-Manchester-Birmingham-Southampton in the late 80s, which was short lived.

After that, Loganair was the first nonstop service since the BCal which I recall started in 1991 or 1992, designed to serve the IBM corporate business. It was initially a 2x daily J31 and went to a 4x daily J31 before Edinburgh was also added and J41s arrived.

After that came the BRAL / BA Connect thing with the 145s and then Flybe started up in competition on the Southampton routes about 1997 with 146s. Flybe then were given BA Connect with the dowry to take it off BA’s hands, competition was eliminated and the Q400s came along.

Flybe went bust, Loganair came back with the 145s, Flybe threatened to come back again but pulled those plans and went bankrupt shortly afterwards.

If I’ve missed anything, please say so but I think that’s a potted history of 50 years of Glasgow-Southampton services!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I don't remember flybe going against BA on GLA-SOU, they were however competing on GLA-BHX with the 146 from 1997. I think flybe inherited GLA-SOU in the BA sale? I thought Loganair lauched the GLA-SOU route in 1991, never knew about BUA! You live and learn.

[TartinTon]

Thanks for filling in the gaps I didn't have @Flightrider!

[Hial Flyer]

I don't remember flybe going against BA on GLA-SOU, they were however competing on GLA-BHX with the 146 from 1997. I think flybe inherited GLA-SOU in the BA sale? I thought Loganair lauched the GLA-SOU route in 1991, never knew about BUA! You live and learn.

I definately remember Flybe competing with BA on the GLA- SOU route as it was sometimes cheaper to go one way with BA and back with Flybe, dont ever remember it being a 146 though. Im sure it was the Dash then later the E195. The Loganair service was taken over by Manx when Airlines of Britain decided they would operate all of Loganairs services outwith Scotland. This then became BACON.

[northsands]

I definately remember Flybe competing with BA on the GLA- SOU route as it was sometimes cheaper to go one way with BA and back with Flybe, dont ever remember it being a 146 though. Im sure it was the Dash then later the E195. The Loganair service was taken over by Manx when Airlines of Britain decided they would operate all of Loganairs services outwith Scotland. This then became BACON.

Flybe came onto the route in competition with BA CitiExpress in March 2004, and both airlines operated until October 2006, when BA Connect (as BA CitiExpress had by now become) withdrew.service. Flybe thus did not acquire the route via the BA Connect transfer in spring 2007, it was already flying it.

[SKOJB]

Loganair offer a great service but EZY will jump on GLA or EDI once SOU runway extension is complete, 3/4 weekly in competition with RYR BOH

[adfly]

Loganair offer a great service but EZY will jump on GLA or EDI once SOU runway extension is complete, 3/4 weekly in competition with RYR BOH
I doubt this... They'd almost certainly be more expensive than Ryanair for the leisure market and offer a poor frequency compared to Loganair so with next to no appeal to business travellers.

[SKOJB]

I doubt this... They'd almost certainly be more expensive than Ryanair for the leisure market and offer a poor frequency compared to Loganair so with next to no appeal to business travellers.

Rubbish, many pax would rather fly with EZY from SOU with its superior ground connections (road/rail) and catchment. Loganair will always have a niche for business travellers but one daily to EDI would make a killing for the majority being leisure!

[Sotonsean]

I suppose it all depends how much of a puritanical historian you are ! Glasgow - Southampton was initially flown daily by a BUA 1-11-200 in between Gatwick sorties for many years which continued through into BCal until the early 80s.

There was a BA HS748 service which was a Glasgow-Manchester-Birmingham-Southampton in the late 80s, which was short lived.

After that, Loganair was the first nonstop service since the BCal which I recall started in 1991 or 1992, designed to serve the IBM corporate business. It was initially a 2x daily J31 and went to a 4x daily J31 before Edinburgh was also added and J41s arrived.

After that came the BRAL / BA Connect thing with the 145s and then Flybe started up in competition on the Southampton routes about 1997 with 146s. Flybe then were given BA Connect with the dowry to take it off BA’s hands, competition was eliminated and the Q400s came along.

Flybe went bust, Loganair came back with the 145s, Flybe threatened to come back again but pulled those plans and went bankrupt shortly afterwards.

If I’ve missed anything, please say so but I think that’s a potted history of 50 years of Glasgow-Southampton services!

Just a couple of points if I may.

BUA started Glasgow to Southampton in 1966 with a Viscount 800, the BAC-1-11-200 started in 1969. Originally a daily service but was reduced to six weekly after Caledonian purchased BUA in 1970. In 1974 BCAL had to reduce their network due to several factors at the time and Glasgow to Southampton ended in September 1974.

The short lived British Airways HS-748 service that operated to Southampton between 1987/88 I believe originated in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow. The routing was Edinburgh-Manchester-Birmingham-Southampton, it could have even originated from Aberdeen. I used the flight a couple of times whilst it existed.
​​
Loganair inaugurated Edinburgh/Glasgow to Southampton in October 1991.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Rubbish, many pax would rather fly with EZY from SOU with its superior ground connections (road/rail) and catchment. Loganair will always have a niche for business travellers but one daily to EDI would make a killing for the majority being leisure!
If easyJet start then Loganair leave. I doubt there's room for both, look at the IOM. There's very few regional routes with both high volume leisure and high frequency connectivity.

[cavokblues]

In danger of going off-topic but the runway wouldn't appear to be overly restrictive at the moment for a A319 to EDI or GLA. If Easy were going to start why haven't they already?

[stewyb]

In danger of going off-topic but the runway wouldn't appear to be overly restrictive at the moment for a A319 to EDI or GLA. If Easy were going to start why haven't they already?

Probably more to do with lack of apron space (no large aircraft stands) and airfield performance prohibitive in warmer temps, even Loganair struggle with summer temps currently. All of this is being rectified come August so let’s wait and see. Do agree however that an EZY schedule to EDI would go down very well with people on the south coast

[SWBKCB]

Probably more to do with lack of apron space (no large aircraft stands) and airfield performance prohibitive in warmer temps, even Loganair struggle with summer temps currently. All of this is being rectified come August so let’s wait and see. Do agree however that an EZY schedule to EDI would go down very well with people on the south coast

So how did the Palma etc flights operate?

[stewyb]

I doubt this... They'd almost certainly be more expensive than Ryanair for the leisure market and offer a poor frequency compared to Loganair so with next to no appeal to business travellers.

A little more expensive than RYR but significantly less expensive than Loganair. The business travel market is now a fraction of what it was so cheaper fares with less frequency is the way to go with 186 full seats x whatever weekly!

[stewyb]

So how did the Palma etc flights operate?

Maybe the tour operators were willing to compromise on seat numbers and hold capacity? Doubt this would ever be entertained by a LCC

[cavokblues]

Geneva EZY flights also squeeze in as have several airbus operators in the past. If Easy wanted to they could do GLA / EDI now.

[stewyb]

Geneva EZY flights also squeeze in, don't they?

short flight of 470 miles in winter temps

[cavokblues]

I don't see the UK summer temperatures really stopping a A319 performance to EDI?

[stewyb]

I don't see the UK summer temperatures really stopping a A319 performance to EDI?

you will be surprised off a strip of tarmac just over 5500ft

[cavokblues]

GIB have a marginally longer runway and offer Airbus flights as far as EDI, albeit probably seat restricted.

As I said, I don't see the runway length currently realistically being much of a restriction on an airbus 319 hopping to Scotland.

[stewyb]

GIB have a marginally longer runway and offer Airbus flights as far as EDI, albeit probably seat restricted.

As I said, I don't see the runway length currently realistically being much of a restriction on an airbus 319 hopping to Scotland.

Agreed but SOU is penalised rather heavily by reduced TORA/TODA declarations

[cavokblues]

I think we're going off topic completely here but I don't see any restriction which would stop easyjet chucking a 319 on flights to EDI at present considering several operators have flown larger aircraft greater distances from the airport in the past.

Maybe the opportunity to operate longer sun routes from the airport might entice them in to also do shorter routes alongside....

[Albert Hall]

easyJet already fly SOU-GVA with the 319/320. If they wanted to fly shorter sectors from SOU to EDI, GLA, BFS, AMS etc then there is no technical reason as to why they couldn’t have done it already. That they haven’t is clear, but the reasons less so.

The comments about winter temperatures are also a bit of a false trail. The bigger impact on performance is a wet runway, which you’re more likely to get in winter.

[cuthere]

Just checking: is this the Loganair thread?

[Diff Tail Shim]

Just checking: is this the Loganair thread?
It's is a rumour thread that has little to do with Loganair. By people that in the main have no real association with Loganair.

[cuthere]

I’m not sure a breakdown of EZY’s current, and potential, route network from SOU qualifies as “rumour”.

Let’s get it back on track. Any more word on Loganair’s bid to get some LHR slots?

[Diff Tail Shim]

I’m not sure a breakdown of EZY’s current, and potential, route network from SOU qualifies as “rumour”.

Let’s get it back on track. Any more word on Loganair’s bid to get some LHR slots?
If they do, they do. Loganair do routes that EZY and FR would not touch with a barge pole. Not profitable for them.

[RW20]

If they do, they do. Loganair do routes that EZY and FR would not touch with a barge pole. Not profitable for them.

Exactly the reason that Easy arn't already at SOU on short routes like Glasgow For example,there isnt the PAX demands to make it profitable ,and I dont think this will change post Runway extension .

[Flightrider]

If rumours of easyJet at SOU are true, all it is trying to do is exactly what it is doing between BFS and BHD. This is to the detriment of everyone but themselves in their efforts to control the market between LGW and SOU.

A series of spoiler services impact everyone else’s yields and where easyJet has the frequency advantage at larger airports like LGW and BFS, its position is not able to be tackled on the basis of that frequency.

For SOU and BHD, this is a very dangerous position as they basically allow in easyJet to control the market and ultimately suppress it to keep the big volumes at LGW and BFS. It’s not good for consumer choice in the long run either. Very much a matter of be careful what you wish for.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Exactly the reason that Easy arn't already at SOU on short routes like Glasgow For example,there isnt the PAX demands to make it profitable ,and I dont think this will change post Runway extension .
No it will not. People like the choice to travel to SOU in the morning or the evening from the locations Logan fly from. Not as cheap as some would like. But Loganair exists while Flybe and BMIR do not.

[willy wombat]

I think Flightrider makes a good point. I haven’t looked recently but the last time I looked the EZY services between BHX and EDI/GLA were all over the place, schedule wise. OK for occasional leisure travel but not so great for business. Even their schedules on LGW/EDI (which I use a lot) leave a lot to be desired. For example, this coming Wednesday the last flight EDILGW is at 1650. I do get the impression that EZY treat a lot of their domestics, particularly regional ones, as fillers but by siphoning off some of the discretionary traffic make the routes unviable for a competing regional operator.

[OltonPete]

I think Flightrider makes a good point. I haven’t looked recently but the last time I looked the EZY services between BHX and EDI/GLA were all over the place, schedule wise. OK for occasional leisure travel but not so great for business. Even their schedules on LGW/EDI (which I use a lot) leave a lot to be desired. For example, this coming Wednesday the last flight EDILGW is at 1650. I do get the impression that EZY treat a lot of their domestics, particularly regional ones, as fillers but by siphoning off some of the discretionary traffic make the routes unviable for a competing regional operator.

WW, absolutely spot on, as a BHX watcher the up and coming summer schedules at times are a nightmare for business but I can't speak for Southampton, however BHX domestics business travel appears to be nowhere near pre COVID levels (and might never recover) and of course these schedules won't help and they do give the impression of gap-fillers in the aircraft schedule. However, I am sure some Southampton locals would be more than happy to accept easyjet EDI & GLA even at erratic timings or as gaps-fillers or whatever you want to call them :).

Pete

[willy wombat]

WW, absolutely spot on, as a BHX watcher the up and coming summer schedules at times are a nightmare for business but I can't speak for Southampton, however BHX domestics business travel appears to be nowhere near pre COVID levels (and might never recover) and of course these schedules won't help and they do give the impression of gap-fillers in the aircraft schedule. However, I am sure some Southampton locals would be more than happy to accept easyjet EDI & GLA even at erratic timings or as gaps-fillers or whatever you want to call them :).

Pete

indeed but my point is that while some SOU locals might be pleased to see an EZY service to Scotland even if at erratic timings, others would not be so pleased if this led to the withdrawal of the business friendly Loganair services.

[22/04]

WW, absolutely spot on, as a BHX watcher the up and coming summer schedules at times are a nightmare for business


Often locos are like this as these routes need to fit round routes from the bases.

e.g. if the aircraft goes base to Palma one day and Tenerife the next and base to BHX follows they won't be at the same time.

[Diff Tail Shim]

indeed but my point is that while some SOU locals might be pleased to see an EZY service to Scotland even if at erratic timings, others would not be so pleased if this led to the withdrawal of the business friendly Loganair services.
It also keeps people at those locations in work. That may upset some of the posters on here, but hey ho,. Let the blood flow in their ideas.

[Rivet Joint]

Wow, what did I start! I intentionally did not mention EZY. Let’s start again, what do we think LM will replace the 145s with? ATRs I feel are too slow. Not sure they would get as many sectors in.

[adfly]

Wow, what did I start! I intentionally did not mention EZY. Let’s start again, what do we think LM will replace the 145s with? ATRs I feel are too slow. Not sure they would get as many sectors in.
I think ATR's could work, but they would need to re-jig the schedules a little with other shorter flights already operated by them. Additional fleet commonality is probably appealing for Loganair.

As you say I can't imagine it will be possible to do 4x EDI/GLA - SOU/EXT returns in a day on a single aircraft. But if you mixed that in with a shorter sector or two to IOM/LDY/SYY etc then it might be alright.


Otherwise what would they choose - Q400 is faster but seems risky reliability wise, and would be thirsty on short flights. E170/175 is probably more reliable than a Q400 but a great deal thirstier again.

[Diff Tail Shim]

So what reliable airframes of the size / fuel burn / and bums on seats fills the holes? New Q400s about? New EJRs about? New ATRs about? Rock and hard place. Rather have EJRs with new parts about. Oh Uber alles Q400 and ATRs. Jets over props every time in my considered opinion.

[Diff Tail Shim]

https://www.scotsman.com/business/future-flight-very-difficult-message-that-year-round-scottish-flights-cost-more-than-summer-only-budget-airlines-fares-loganair-chief-executive-jonathan-hinkles-4060075

[stewyb]

https://www.scotsman.com/business/future-flight-very-difficult-message-that-year-round-scottish-flights-cost-more-than-summer-only-budget-airlines-fares-loganair-chief-executive-jonathan-hinkles-4060075

Admirable and a position I agree with, however this will never stop the LCC’s profiting from their lower cost base and economies of scale!

[jethro15]

Personally, I can’t see Loganair disposing of the ERJ fleet any time soon, given that a cabin upgrade is about to be undertaken across the fleet. This is on top of a flight management system upgrade. Rather costly if they are planning to replace the a/c!

As for fleet replacements, they appear to be committed to ATR with plans for an additional 4 AT42’s, and 4 (Possibly 5) AT72's on the cards.

All in all, I think fleet replacement plans are at this time not something Loganair are in a rush to commit to.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Personally, I can’t see Loganair disposing of the ERJ fleet any time soon, given that a cabin upgrade is about to be undertaken across the fleet. This is on top of a flight management system upgrade. Rather costly if they are planning to replace the a/c!

As for fleet replacements, they appear to be committed to ATR with plans for an additional 4 AT42’s, and one possible AT72 on the cards.

All in all, I think fleet replacement plans are at this time not something Loganair are in a rush to commit to.
Why bin aeroplanes that are doing routes that fit their role and are being profitable? Certainly the cabin upgrades are well overdue, but they were when the fleet was BMIR. FMS update is also well in progress.

[Jamesair1]

Interesting situation for Loganair after BA hands them 60 LHR slots for Summer 23.


cr. Sean M.

[SWBKCB]

Being reported on the Derry thread that the STN flight is moving to LHR

Loganair, the UK’s largest regional airline, will expand at Heathrow from May thanks to slots secured under a lease arrangement with British Airways.

The carrier has also renewed its calls to the UK government to reform competition remedies to make slots at Heathrow permanently available for regional connectivity.

Loganair has secured access to 30 additional pairs of slots each week at the London hub under a lease arrangement with BA which takes effect in May.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-to-expand-at-heathrow-from-may

[CabinCrewe]

Lets hope any expansion ex LHR boosts their ‘local’ Scottish routes and airports.
BA may have something to say though on their essentially high fare LHR connection monopoly.
Good news though. Have they got capacity/aircraft and resilience though? We don’t need another Flybe

[SWBKCB]

However, Flybe’s “slots” at Heathrow are now potentially up for grabs, which include to Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Mr Hinkles said flying them against British Airways would be a “suicide mission”, but there was “absolutely” a case for switching the slots to other routes, such as Dundee, to improve UK air connections. He said: “If there’s an opportunity there, it’s really quite exciting”.

This from the article linked at #293 above - so I'd expect new destinations from LHR, not competing on existing routes. Derry and Dundee favourites?

[virginblue]

Interesting situation for Loganair after BA hands them 60 LHR slots for Summer 23.


cr. Sean M.

So that translates into 5 daily flights, I guess. Beyond switching, say, DND, IOM and LDY to LHR not much left then

[SealinkBF]

Lets hope any expansion ex LHR boosts their ‘local’ Scottish routes and airports.
BA may have something to say though on their essentially high fare LHR connection monopoly.
Good news though. Have they got capacity/aircraft and resilience though? We don’t need another Flybe

I imagine BA will codeshare. A win win for them.

[Jerbourg]

From a personal view it would be great to have the ex Flybe (1) LHR-GCI route back ...

[5711N0205W]

I see there’s a Titan A321 that seems to be subbing on Logan flights just now, quite a capacity difference from the regular fleet.

[SWBKCB]

I see Loganair are having a C check performed on an ERJ 145 by Willis at Teesside, where did they used to go before?

What's happening here? Now being reported that it was at MME for storage and is going to Portugal shortly?

[jethro15]

It was there for care and maintenance, but plans to conduct a C Check there didn’t work out which is why it’s now off to Portugal

[SWBKCB]

Thought this was going to be Willis' first C check at MME so curious as to what didn't work out?

[CabinCrewe]

Meeting today with Loganair and CAA about how they plan to maintain Scottish connectivity. Surprised its within CAA remit or priority.

[The Flying Stool]

Thought this was going to be Willis' first C check at MME so curious as to what didn't work out?

Wasn't there a plan that all of the E145s would receive their heavy maintenance at Willis at Teesside? This would mean aircraft wouldn't have to be flown to Portugal or even the USA for C and D checks.

G-SAJD has sat at Teesside since February and work seemingly never started on it. When the aircraft go to OGMA in Portugal, they are often there for six months at a time. An expensive and time consuming business.

[tallaonejuliet]

Wasn't there a plan that all of the E145s would receive their heavy maintenance at Willis at Teesside? This would mean aircraft wouldn't have to be flown to Portugal or even the USA for C and D checks.

G-SAJD has sat at Teesside since February and work seemingly never started on it. When the aircraft go to OGMA in Portugal, they are often there for six months at a time. An expensive and time consuming business.

Might be overexaggerating about the timescales relating to OGMA checks...
The MRO in Lithuania have encountered delays also, mostly down to lack of spares for a legacy fleet of aircraft.
Bare in mind that both the MRO's are recognised Embraer service center's, not many of them in the good old UK..

[Saabdriver1]

I'm pretty certain this is the first LM aircraft into OGMA in quite some time - like three or four years. Others might have had issues with aircraft stuck down there but Vilnius has been the MRO of choice for the 145s for ages now. Only one ever went to the USA.

It's well on its way there so whatever happens, doesn't look like the C Check is being done in Teesside.

[N123JB]

G-SAJE has just screwed up its brakes upon landing at ABZ (on LM12 from NWI)

[SealinkBF]

Meeting today with Loganair and CAA about how they plan to maintain Scottish connectivity. Surprised its within CAA remit or priority.

They wouldnt be involved with the tender that is up for services to Campbeltown, Barra and Tiree?
PSO flight tender | Transport Scotland (https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/pso-flight-tender-1/)

[Diff Tail Shim]

Thought this was going to be Willis' first C check at MME so curious as to what didn't work out?
Maybe the same reason Willis do not have base maintenance approvals from EASA?

[SWBKCB]

They have CAA base maintenance approvals, so is this a seperate issue? Do Willis do MRO in their own right anywhere else?

[Diff Tail Shim]

They have CAA base maintenance approvals, so is this a seperate issue? Do Willis do MRO in their own right anywhere else?
Maybe EASA actually did a proper audit? Is this hangar fit to do maintenance in? Is it ready to do maintenace in? I wouldn't tell you if it is or isn't because it isn't any of your business.

[SealinkBF]

Loganair to interline with Aer Lingus

Loganair seals interline agreement with Aer Lingus (travelmole.com) (https://www.travelmole.com/news/loganair-seals-interline-agreement-with-aer-lingus/)

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Was there a business logic for sourcing both ATR42-500 and -600 as well as ATR72-500 and -600? Or was it down to pure airframe availability and they can happily mix and match marques?

[TartinTon]

Was there a busiiness logic for sourcing both ATR42-500 and -600 as well as ATR72-500 and -600? Or was it down to pure airframe availability and they can happily mix and match marques?

Assume it was airframe availability as both versions are similar apart from the 600 versions having superior performance and higher weights as well as higher automation levels for the pilots.

[Saabdriver1]

72-500s are all freighters and 72-600s are all passenger aircraft with no plans to get either 72-500 pax or 72-600 freighters.

The original plan was 42-500s as Saab 340 replacements where the numbers wouldn't work for more expensive 42-600s on thinner regional routes where the routes (and island airports in some cases) could neither take nor need an ATR72.

Both 42-600s were short-notice additions to the fleet at different times to take up opportunities as they were offered, I believe. Both heading for Glasgow base imminently.

Just btw runway performance and MTOW for the 42-600 is exactly the same as the 42-500 - there's no difference in terms of capability. 18600kg MTOW for both. Some cosmetic differences in the cabin, and quite a big difference in the flightdeck requiring a delta course, training and split OPCs.

[SealinkBF]

Loganair hoping for firm sale bid ‘in coming weeks’
Loganair hoping for firm sale bid ‘in coming weeks’ | The Shetland Times Ltd (https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2023/08/01/loganair-hoping-for-firm-sale-bid-in-coming-weeks)

[VickersVicount]

Loganair hoping for firm sale bid ‘in coming weeks’ | The Shetland Times Ltd (https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2023/08/01/loganair-hoping-for-firm-sale-bid-in-coming-weeks)
Not sure what my thoughts are on that. Could be anything. Suppose most likely will be some sort of venture capital conglomeration. Would be funny if it was BA…

[SouthernAlliance]

Not sure what my thoughts are on that. Could be anything. Suppose most likely will be some sort of venture capital conglomeration. Would be funny if it was BA…

Don’t think BA would get involved again with a regional airline after the fiasco of BA Connect. More likely to be a privately funded purchase as you say via VC and private equity

[tallaonejuliet]

Not sure what my thoughts are on that. Could be anything. Suppose most likely will be some sort of venture capital conglomeration. Would be funny if it was BA…

BA would be fractionally better than the current custodians some may say...

[cavokblues]

I can't see IAG being interested.

I just hope the new takeover isn't leveraged and they manage to avoid capitalists like Greybull Capital.

[nguba]

If Loganair was still a BA franchise it would have first refusal.

I can’t see this being the sort of “transformational” deal IAG likes to pursue.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Everything BA touches outside of London they FUBAR, not intentionally, but they do. I have no idea how any venture capitalist would justify any ROI on Loganair's margins. It is what it is, but highly profitable it can't really be.

[SWBKCB]

I think the BA comment was a joke :rolleyes:

[goldeneye]

Jethros are reporting the two Dorniers that are at DND are deregistered from the UK register and onwards with a possible D reg.

[scodaman]

Loganair dropping City of Derry airport to Liverpool route.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/route-liverpool-john-lennon-airport-27760073

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/future-of-derry-to-liverpool-flights-in-doubt-4340706

[exlatccatsa]

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/10/05/loganair-sale-put-on-hold/

[TartinTon]

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/10/05/loganair-sale-put-on-hold/

Not really a surprise, who would want to buy them? The clock is definitely ticking though. Stephen Bond is 73 now. I'm somewhat surprised that Hinkles hasn't engineered a management buyout as I can't really see any other reaslistic option unless it's Souter/Gloag or a patriotic outlier like Rod Stewart!

[Diff Tail Shim]

Jethros are reporting the two Dorniers that are at DND are deregistered from the UK register and onwards with a possible D reg.
Miss working on those two. They kept NWI going.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Not really a surprise, who would want to buy them? The clock is definitely ticking though. Stephen Bond is 73 now. I'm somewhat surprised that Hinkles hasn't engineered a management buyout as I can't really see any other reaslistic option unless it's Souter/Gloag or a patriotic outlier like Rod Stewart!
Not exactly a sellers market out there is it? Suspect Hinkles is busy running an airline to be bothered at some fanciful prospect of wanting to own it.

[jmdavies86]

I think the BA comment was a joke :rolleyes:

Joking aside, would any acquisition or merger by/with BA (well, it'd be IAG ultimately) be permitted by the Competition & Markets Authority...?

I can't really see any other realistic option unless it's Souter/Gloag or a patriotic outlier like Rod Stewart!

Gloag is 80yrs old and doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to aviation-related things (e.g. Manston); I wonder if the Easdale brothers who own McGill’s Buses may have been a potential option...?

[exlatccatsa]

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/10/12/loganair-wins-major-aviation-industry-accolade/

LOGANAIR has been named Airline of the Year for 2023 by the European Regions Airline Association (ERA), an accolade they previously had won in 2018.

The award, which recognises achievement and success in European aviation, was announced at the ERA’s general assembly meeting in Innsbruck, Austria, last night (Wednesday).
Celebrating the award are (left to right): Claire Forrester (cabin crew), Annag Bagley (captain), Craig Young (first officer), chief executive Jonathan Hinkles, Rebecca Simpson (training captain) and Edwin Muzaale (line engineer). Photo; Loganair

Loganair, which employs more than 850 people across its network, was honoured in recognition of its “impressive performance” in returning to profitability following the pandemic, whilst at the same time improving terms for its staff.
Advertisement9 of 10

The award might prove somewhat controversial locally where Loganair has come in for a lot of criticism over the performance of its Sumburgh routes.

Airline chief executive Jonathan Hinkles said it was an “incredible honour” to be named airline of the year and thanked the company’s employees for their “extraordinary efforts in recent years”.

He added: “We were one of the very few airlines to continue flying daily throughout the pandemic, providing essential travel to remote communities, air ambulance services for Covid patients, and energy industry charter services that ensured the UK’s lights remained switched on.”

Judges also highlighted its progressive approach to the environment.

The airline’s GreenSkies programme, introduced in 2021 to manage and mitigate the environmental impact of flying through a combination of carbon offsetting, renewables investment and sustainable aviation research, was the first of its kind in the industry.
Advertisement10 of 10

ERA director general Montserrat Barriga said: “With an impressive overall performance during 2022, Loganair has overcome the challenges of the previous two years brought on by the pandemic.”

The ERA is a trade association representing the European aviation industry. Its membership includes more than 50 airlines and 150 associate and affiliate members.

Founded in 1962, Loganair is now the largest regional airline in the UK by passenger numbers and fleet size, operating across almost 100 routes throughout the UK, Ireland and Scandinavia.

[exlatccatsa]

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/10/20/extra-flight-capacity-ferries-under-review-community-council-consultation-coastguard-response-times-and-more/

Apparently 2 aircraft damaged whilst parked at Aberdeen by the high winds yesterday.

[Jamesair1]

A few cancellations at NCL yesterday and more today

[SealinkBF]

Loganair awarded PCO contract for Coll, Barra, Tiree and Campbeltown.

Lower air fares for residents of Barra and Tiree - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqejpq3epggo)

[davidjohnson6]

Loganair awarded PCO contract for Coll, Barra, Tiree and Campbeltown.

Lower air fares for residents of Barra and Tiree - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqejpq3epggo)
Does this include the Coll-Oban route or is it just Coll-Tiree ?

[inOban]

My assumption is that residents of Coll will have to get the ferry to Tiree to catch their flight. Hebridean Airways operate the routes out of Oban.

[commit aviation]

Loganair starts regional jet refit | Travel Weekly (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-starts-regional-jet-refit)

Someone is going to have to help me here: "low carbon leather"?? :confused:

[VickersVicount]

Loganair starts regional jet refit | Travel Weekly (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-starts-regional-jet-refit)

Someone is going to have to help me here: "low carbon leather"?? :confused:
Not sure its hugely controversial….
https://www.scottishleathergroup.com/lowest-carbon-leather

[adfly]

Not sure its hugely controversial….
https://www.scottishleathergroup.com/lowest-carbon-leather
Good to see, although arguably a drop in the ocean compared to the per person fuel consumption of a 49 seat regional jet...

​​​​Looks like a good refresh though, keeping the comfy looking seats.

[TartinTon]

Loganair starts regional jet refit | Travel Weekly (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-starts-regional-jet-refit)

Someone is going to have to help me here: "low carbon leather"?? :confused:

It's quite simple. I'll spell it out for you G-R-E-E-N-W-A-S-H-I-N-G

[jmdavies86]

It's quite simple. I'll spell it out for you G-R-E-E-N-W-A-S-H-I-N-G

It strikes me as though airlines are a bit of a soft target for environmentalists as they're damned if they're not seen to be reducing their carbon emissions/impact, and then shamed with claims of 'greenwashing' when they attempt to make an effort to do so; how is it possible to actually please these people...?!

[Atlantic Explorer]

It strikes me as though airlines are a bit of a soft target for environmentalists as they're damned if they're not seen to be reducing their carbon emissions/impact, and then shamed with claims of 'greenwashing' when they attempt to make an effort to do so; how is it possible to actually please these people...?!

As Adfly rightly points out above, it’s a bit comical making a thing about low carbon leather when they’re blasting about the skies in a fuel thirsty jet at low altitudes on short sectors in a low capacity aircraft.

[chaps1954]

What do you expect for an essentilal journey between islands. They could go by car and boat which would probably use more fuel and take several times the journey time

[SWBKCB]

What do you expect for an essentilal journey between islands. They could go by car and boat which would probably use more fuel and take several times the journey time

Don't think the EMB-145's do much of the Highlands and Islands stuff.

[chaps1954]

Never said they did, they do the trunk routes, even MAN doesn`t get that many now and as more ATRs arrive less and less

[ld0595]

Last Saab 340 flight was today I believe. End of an era!

[jethro15]

Last Saab 340 flight was today I believe. End of an era!

A little premature.,

G-LNTA currently aog
G-LNTC was due to be wfu 28 Oct. Remains in service until G-LGTA comes back online
G-LNTI / J remain in service pending additional AT72 acquisitions.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Don't think the EMB-145's do much of the Highlands and Islands stuff.
They do a bit. Fr24 tells you what and whem. Especially Stonoway.

[Diff Tail Shim]

As Adfly rightly points out above, it’s a bit comical making a thing about low carbon leather when they’re blasting about the skies in a fuel thirsty jet at low altitudes on short sectors in a low capacity aircraft.
What do you know? Oslo, Stavanger, Bergen, Southampton, Exeter. Check FR24 and see the heights the EJRs are flying. Top of the shop? Only time they will not is if the MEL says no. Or our not fit for purpose NATS..

[Saabdriver1]

Last 340 flight is a while away yet - yesterday was the last one in Glasgow but they'll keep going at Aberdeen until the next ATR deliveries eventually turn up to take over. January is the latest but that's already moved several times so anybody's guess. 3 x 340s left in service as of this week.

The 145 operates to SYY and BEB but can't operate north (KOI + LSI) as the runways aren't adequate. Most of the 145 sectors are longer stage lengths where they're a lot faster than the ATRs which tend to fly the shorter stuff. New 145 cabin looks good although haven't seen it in person yet - it's only on one so far, with the rest following over the next 12 months.

[VickersVicount]

I couldn’t see a huge difference in cabin pics, same tweed headrests, yellowy lighting etc, so yes would be good to see on my next trip to SYY. Just a shame the overheads are beyond useless!

[Diff Tail Shim]

I couldn’t see a huge difference in cabin pics, same tweed headrests, yellowy lighting etc, so yes would be good to see on my next trip to SYY. Just a shame the overheads are beyond useless!
The overhead lockers are what they are. Cannot redesign something that was designed 25 years ago for a limited sized cabin. Airports do not help by not using the size slot boxes to check that luggage will fit in an EJR overhead and bring through items that are Valet size. I feel sorry for the cabin crew and engineers that have to sort out a jammed overhead because someone has shoved in a bag that is obviously too big to fit in,

[5711N0205W]

I feel sorry for the cabin crew and engineers that have to sort out a jammed overhead because someone has shoved in a bag that is obviously too big to fit in,

Happened on BHX - ABZ this evening, I’m sure it was resolved however unaffected pax were off before someone from maintenance would come and release it, cabin and flight deck crew tried and were unable to open the door, it looked like the bin had moved slightly after an unsuitable bag was rammed in before anyone could intervene.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Happened on BHX - ABZ this evening, I’m sure it was resolved however unaffected pax were off before someone from maintenance would come and release it, cabin and flight deck crew tried and were unable to open the door, it looked like the bin had moved slightly after an unsuitable bag was rammed in before anyone could intervene.
Art to releasing the lock if the hatch is jammed shut.

[Rivet Joint]

What’s with all the cancellations the last few weeks? At least a flight a day cancelled at SOU. NCL flight cancelled this morning and the EDI route just did one loop then went into BOH. Another flight was in the hold and after a few loops landed at SOU without issue. Must say I will have no sympathy if EZY move in at SOU.

[Saabdriver1]

400m RVR on R20 on the 2050 weather probably has something to do with it. 375m on the 1950s, cleared briefly and then back to 400m RVR on the 2050s so clearly floating in and out. All three of the morning wave ended up in Bristol last Tuesday in similar conditions. I don't think an easy 320 will do any better!

Think this morning's NCL disruption was crew-related but no airline can fix weather below minima.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Another flight was in the hold and after a few loops landed at SOU without issue. Must say I will have no sympathy if EZY move in at SOU.
Surely it would have landed only if the RVR improved OR their landing CAT was higher than the diverting Loganair. If easyJet did knock Loganair out of SOU, do you think they'd offer business friendly day returns on EDI/GLA/NCL? I don't, but that said, a once daily might be all that's needed nowadays? Views?

[SWBKCB]

Daily? Maybe...
Regular times? Maybe....
Long-term commitment? Maybe...

[adfly]

Surely it would have landed only if the RVR improved OR their landing CAT was higher than the diverting Loganair. If easyJet did knock Loganair out of SOU, do you think they'd offer business friendly day returns on EDI/GLA/NCL? I don't, but that said, a once daily might be all that's needed nowadays? Views?
I'd suggest the fact that Loganair seem to be quite successfully sustaining their operation on SOU-GLA/EDI/NCL and increasing frequencies year by year despite not being a cheap option at all suggests that they are doing quite well. I would think that there must be a reasonable proportion of business travel on the routes to justify the fares typically being charged.

It would be a real shame if they were to end up being bullied/priced out on the routes by EZY leaving the airport with inconvenient schedules, regardless of how loud some of the cries may be about the cost of Loganair fares. See some of the BHX, BRS and even LGW domestics on some days for an example of how poor the timings can be on EZY with no competition to worry about!

[Saabdriver1]

It looks as though the viz dropped last night, lifted, then dropped again in the space of an hour. Not unheard of but not an everyday occurrence either.

The other issue will be holding fuel. Take stacks of it, you’ll be over your IFLD calculation for landing (particularly on a wet runway) at SOU if you do happen to get straight in. You tend to be limited in what you can carry so a couple of runs round the hold then divert will be about the norm. And obviously if the RVR is below minima, there’s no point wasting what fuel you have by initiating an approach that you cannot complete.

[Rivet Joint]

It looks as though the viz dropped last night, lifted, then dropped again in the space of an hour. Not unheard of but not an everyday occurrence either.

The other issue will be holding fuel. Take stacks of it, you’ll be over your IFLD calculation for landing (particularly on a wet runway) at SOU if you do happen to get straight in. You tend to be limited in what you can carry so a couple of runs round the hold then divert will be about the norm. And obviously if the RVR is below minima, there’s no point wasting what fuel you have by initiating an approach that you cannot complete.

Thanks for the suggested answers. An ATR landed whilst the 145 was diverting to BOH but perhaps it doesn’t have the same limitations or fuel played a part. It was just unusual to see it do one loop and then divert. Usually would see a few loops to see if conditions improve.

I hope LM stay at SOU but they have had a monopoly and not really done much as a result. Upgrading the cabins of the 145s is a real shortsighted decision for me. They have no business operating in Europe any more despite being very quick. I don’t really understand why LM are getting quite a few newish ATR-72s and then putting them on the silly Scottish only routes that can’t justify a 70 odd seater plane. If they are deemed too slow for the SOU routes then they should be replacing the 145s with larger embrears. Even tinpot Eastern have got 4 of them now.

[Saabdriver1]

God, don’t let anyone hear you say “silly Scottish only routes”. That’s heresy.

Some of those routes do have passenger volumes to justify the ATR72.

The jet can do four rotations a day to Southampton in the time it takes the ATR to do three. The question is whether frequency or capacity is the right answer.

The 145 refit is the right answer as the airframes are low cost but need to look the part for passengers. Same as Jet2 still flying some 737-300s. They have a job to do, so need to maintain a standard to do it. Cost of a new aircraft with all of the crew training and transitions costs versus refitting what you already have are in two different worlds.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

putting them on the silly Scottish only routes that can’t justify a 70 odd seater plane. If they are deemed too slow for the SOU routes then they should be replacing the 145s with larger embrears. Even tinpot Eastern have got 4 of them now.
Wow! Is this for real? What a ludicrous thing to say. Aside from a morning and evening day return option, what exactly more do you want? If "lower fares" then you cannot get that from Loganair on their business model, easyJet will give you that, but likely not at business friendly times....Loganair operate on fairly thin margins but have been around for 60 years. Not splashing the cash on shiney new toys with ZERO ROI will hopefully see them to 70. It's not glamorous, but it is what it is.

[jethro15]

Even tinpot Eastern have got 4 of them now.

Yet E190 G-CLYU has yet to operate a revenue service since being delivered 23 Oct.

Eastern's association with the Embraer fleet is suspect to say the least!

Talking of which, has the latest Eastern thread been removed, or has a glass of Scotland's finest impaired my search skills?

[CabinCrewe]

Yet E190 G-CLYU has yet to operate a revenue service since being delivered 23 Oct.

Eastern's association with the Embraer fleet is suspect to say the least!

Talking of which, has the latest Eastern thread been removed, or has a glass of Scotland's finest impaired my search skills?
Seek and thee shall find
https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/638294-eastern-airways-3-a.html?highlight=eastern

[exlatccatsa]

LOGANAIR is celebrating winning yet another award after having been named Domestic Airline of the Year by the Scottish Passenger Agents’ Association (SPAA).It follows hard on the heels of being named Airline of the Year for 2023 by the European Regions Airline Association (ERA) just three weeks ago.

Airline boss Jonathan Hinkles said the announcement marked the end of a successful year for the airline, during which Loganair also scooped the Regional Airline of the Year award at the CAPA (Centre for Aviation) Aviation Awards for Excellence.

“Winning the SPAA Domestic Airline of the Year award for the second year in a row is a tremendous achievement, and it’s a testament to the hard work and dedication of our incredible team,” Hinkles said.
https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/11/03/loganair-award-community-council-events-and-more/

[fjencl]

BREAKING: Loganair to end Inverness to Birmingham and Dublin flights next year (inverness-courier.co.uk) (https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/breaking-loganair-to-end-inverness-to-birmingham-and-dublin-332930/)

[Markushillman]

Loganair to also end

Aberdeen - Oslo
Derry - Liverpool

And the summer seasonal Edinburgh- Stavanger and Dundee - Belfast

Credit to @SeanM1997 on X

[fjencl]

Loganair to suspend flights between Sumburgh and Dundee for two months due to ‘market conditions’ | Shetland News (shetnews.co.uk) (https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/11/15/loganair-to-suspend-flights-between-sumburgh-and-dundee-for-two-months-due-to-market-conditions/?fbclid=IwAR0zbN7tfoEjQDrS1SsQ6sruUjItqtCR7t4HVfFcyniF1akZXH jjIz0KOVM)

[PinOnTheRight]

BREAKING: Loganair to end Inverness to Birmingham and Dublin flights next year (inverness-courier.co.uk) (https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/breaking-loganair-to-end-inverness-to-birmingham-and-dublin-332930/)

“The partly public-owned NATS – which runs air traffic control at Birmingham airport…”

That’ll be news to NATS and BHX!

[ATNotts]

It looks to me as though there is a requirement to reduce costs, and focus on profitable parts of the business, perhaps because having failed to sell the it, it needs to be made more attractive a proposition before a new attempt to shed it to new owners.

[Saabdriver1]

If change is needed, I don't think it really matters who your owners are or aren't. Costs going up all over the place like ground handling, engineering spares and the NATS stuff mean some routes will just stop working as the income won't cover the inflated costs.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Loganair to also end

Aberdeen - Oslo
Derry - Liverpool

And the summer seasonal Edinburgh- Stavanger and Dundee - Belfast

Credit to @SeanM1997 on X
If routes don't cover costs, you don't fly them. ABZ - OSL will most likely be back in the Summer Season next year. You don't use profitable routes to cover non profitable ones either.

[Diff Tail Shim]

If change is needed, I don't think it really matters who your owners are or aren't. Costs going up all over the place like ground handling, engineering spares and the NATS stuff mean some routes will just stop working as the income won't cover the inflated costs.
And the standard of those services is not improving either.

[SealinkBF]

Loganair to suspend flights between Sumburgh and Dundee for two months due to ‘market conditions’ | Shetland News (shetnews.co.uk) (https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2023/11/15/loganair-to-suspend-flights-between-sumburgh-and-dundee-for-two-months-due-to-market-conditions/?fbclid=IwAR0zbN7tfoEjQDrS1SsQ6sruUjItqtCR7t4HVfFcyniF1akZXH jjIz0KOVM)

Might we see EI (Emerald) at INV?

[ETOPS]

Loganair announces retirement of the Saab 340 fleet..

A Scottish airline is to retire its fleet of aircraft that has served travellers for more than two decades.

Fans of the Loganair Saab 340 fleet, a favourite on social media feeds, snapped up all the tickets for the final farewell flights in January in just a few hours.

"Having completed over 430,000 flights and carried more than eight million passengers, the Saab 340 holds a special place in Loganair's heritage," Loganair said.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23998611.scotland-flight-fans-farewell-loganair-retires-saab-340/

[exlatccatsa]

https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2024/01/23/saab-340s-take-off-from-sumburgh-airport-for-the-final-time Aviation enthusiasts have been bidding a fond farewell to a popular plane which takes off today (Tuesday) from Sumburgh airport for the final time. The Saab 340s have been a mainstay of the region’s aviation sector for decades – but Loganair is removing them from service this week. Thursday’s flight from Kirkwall to Inverness and onto Glasgow will be the last ever flight with the airline. But today is the Saabs’ last in Sumburgh – with typical Shetland weather to mark the occasion.Loganair is phasing the Saabs out as it makes the switch to the larger, more efficient ATR turboprops.

Initially, the final flight had been expected over the summer, but industry-wide supply chain issues delayed the fleet upgrade.

The airline’s chief executive Jonathan Hinkles paid tribute to the Saabs during the December meeting of the Shetland external transport forum.

He said: “That will be a fond farewell to an aircraft that has served us and our customers well over the course of the last 24-and-a-half years.

“But it’s time to go and time for us to continue developing our fleet.”

Loganair is holding a number of events to commemorate the Saabs’ service.

Well known pilot Captain Eddie Watt is set to retire the day after the Saabs – on his 65th birthday.
https://shet.news/loganairsaabeddiewatt

[nighthawk117]

Not just the Saab that had it's last day at Loganair... Jonathan Hinkles has resigned with immediate effect from the airline.

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2024/01/loganair-ceo-hinkles-leaves-with-board-approval/

I’ve always thought that when the curtain falls, it’s time to get off the stage right away.

Earlier this afternoon, and with the full agreement of Loganair’s board, I relinquished my responsibilities as Loganair’s chief executive and accountable manager.

Running an airline is probably the most full-time job imaginable, and one which requires pretty much 24/7 attention in one shape or form….It truly takes its toll

After seven and a half years – a tenure longer than any other UK airline CEO bar one and also one of the longer-serving CEOs in Loganair’s proud 62-year history – it’s time for a change, just as much for me as it is for Loganair.

It serves no-one well for there to be a prolonged period of farewells, uncertainty and indecision in leadership. With all that in mind, I left the building for the final time a few hours ago.

With a new fleet falling into place, Loganair and my trusted colleagues are well set for the future. And as I signed off from the privilege of leading that team a short time ago, I’ve reiterated my firm belief that the future is theirs to grasp; theirs to own; and theirs to make the most of.”

[Diff Tail Shim]

Not just the Saab that had it's last day at Loganair... Jonathan Hinkles has resigned with immediate effect from the airline.

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2024/01/loganair-ceo-hinkles-leaves-with-board-approval/
A loss for the company. You will never work for a more professional CEO in this industry. His style and knowledge compared to others was obvious in the NATS fiasco in the Westminster committee rooms.

[SKOJB]

Could be interesting times ahead for the airline. A sale last year that failed to materialise and now increasingly stiff competition from the low cost carriers, along with a jet fleet that seems ever more unsuitable for modern day regional flying

[Diff Tail Shim]

Could be interesting times ahead for the airline. A sale last year that failed to materialise and now increasingly stiff competition from the low cost carriers, along with a jet fleet that seems ever more unsuitable for modern day regional flying
LCCs do not do the routes Logan EJRs do. For obvious reasons they do not fill a 73/319. Stiff competition my backside.

[SKOJB]

LCCs do not do the routes Logan EJRs do. For obvious reasons they do not fill a 73/319. Stiff competition my backside.

Just don’t mention easyjet GLA-SOU or Ryanair BOH-EDI inside LM towers!

[SotonFlightpath]

Could be interesting times ahead for the airline. A sale last year that failed to materialise and now increasingly stiff competition from the low cost carriers, along with a jet fleet that seems ever more unsuitable for modern day regional flying

I’m not so sure that Loganair’s fleet is ‘ever more unsuitable for modern day regional flying.’ There turboprop fleet is ideal for the services on which they are used and in many parts of the world, particularly in the USA, the EMB 145 is considered the ideal aircraft for the higher frequency, longer-distance, low-density routes.
They must be doing something right as they are still in business and making money, unlike Flybe and BMI Regional!

[22/04]

If they do face stiff competition from the LCCs they don't stick around. They have plenty of routes no LCC will ever touch with a proverbial barge pole.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Not a happy ship inside LM at the moment. Mass pilot resignations, base reductions/ redundancies, route closures and staff being asked to relocate and Royal Mail contract being changed. Does JH know what’s ahead? For those that know, was the recent ‘Social Media’ production and subsequent email from JH to all staff the straw that broke the camels back?

[DC3 Dave]

Not a happy ship inside LM at the moment. Mass pilot resignations, base reductions/ redundancies, route closures and staff being asked to relocate and Royal Mail contract being changed. Does JH know what’s ahead? For those that know, was the recent ‘Social Media’ production and subsequent email from JH to all staff the straw that broke the camels back?

JH has gone.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

What was the social media controversy? I thought their recent output was good with the Saab farewell etc.
When I started out in business I used to model company's survival records and companies which had a stable workforce and were slow to adapt quickly to trading changes had a higher propensity to fail. If the market changes then they have to cut their cloth accordingly and do it quickly.
Could be interesting times ahead for the airline. A sale last year that failed to materialise and now increasingly stiff competition from the low cost carriers, along with a jet fleet that seems ever more unsuitable for modern day regional flying
Paid off but old and maintained in house, it's that or the ATR which is relatively slow, regional new builds are a vanishing species.

[Saabdriver1]

Not a happy ship inside LM at the moment. Mass pilot resignations, base reductions/ redundancies, route closures and staff being asked to relocate and Royal Mail contract being changed. Does JH know what’s ahead? For those that know, was the recent ‘Social Media’ production and subsequent email from JH to all staff the straw that broke the camels back?

From the very little I hear, this was in train before that blew up. I am sure the immature acts of a departing pilot would not trigger this - most airlines would change CEO every week if they left office on the basis of a stupid social media post by an employee! The pilot concerned has some long overdue growing up to do. They take a very dim view of that sort of thing in Holiday House.

I suspect JH has a very good idea of what’s ahead.

[Diff Tail Shim]

From the very little I hear, this was in train before that blew up. I am sure the immature acts of a departing pilot would not trigger this - most airlines would change CEO every week if they left office on the basis of a stupid social media post by an employee! The pilot concerned has some long overdue growing up to do. They take a very dim view of that sort of thing in Holiday House.

I suspect JH has a very good idea of what’s ahead.
Indeed Regional airlines are stepping stones for pilots to.go onto bigger things. Was before the pandemic and certainly after.

[Markushillman]

From the very little I hear, this was in train before that blew up. I am sure the immature acts of a departing pilot would not trigger this - most airlines would change CEO every week if they left office on the basis of a stupid social media post by an employee! The pilot concerned has some long overdue growing up to do. They take a very dim view of that sort of thing in Holiday House.

I suspect JH has a very good idea of what’s ahead.

Which is probably why JH has left as he can forsee a very difficult future. For the 6 years I worked for them from 2014-20, he certainly did an excellent job, especially from the useless one before him. I do feel the board have a very critical decision who replaces him. I fear that things will only go down hill from here.

[TartinTon]

I hear Maurice Boyle is the new CEO. A safe pair of hands?

[Saabdriver1]

Maurice is COO and Accountable Manager. Peter Simpson is acting CEO.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Indeed Regional airlines are stepping stones for pilots to.go onto bigger things. Was before the pandemic and certainly after.
Yes, but it’s the sheer number that are leaving that is causing issues. The training system can’t cope with such a turnover and experience levels on the fleet will be very low as such new pilots come on stream. Most of the big airlines are recruiting and LM is very low on the list of companies to go to unless starting out in the industry with low hours.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Which is probably why JH has left as he can forsee a very difficult future. For the 6 years I worked for them from 2014-20, he certainly did an excellent job, especially from the useless one before him. I do feel the board have a very critical decision who replaces him. I fear that things will only go down hill from here.
I think he was just burned out and needed a break (as was his reasoning in his social media posts).

[Diff Tail Shim]

Just don’t mention easyjet GLA-SOU or Ryanair BOH-EDI inside LM towers!
They dont do other LM routes.

[Diff Tail Shim]

I hear Maurice Boyle is the new CEO. A safe pair of hands?
Old boy at LM and covered JH for many a day.

[SKOJB]

They dont do other LM routes.

Orange cleaning up on GLA and SOU losing LM pax to BOH on EDI

[tallaonejuliet]

Orange cleaning up on GLA and SOU losing LM pax to BOH on EDI

Care to quantify your statement?

[SKOJB]

Care to quantify your statement?

LM will be losing business to easyJet on their GLA service and pax are also using Ryanair BOH flights to EDI as a cheaper alternative, backed up by a quick look at latest CAA stats

[cavokblues]

Is it backed up by the CAA stats?

It was discussed in the Southampton thread. It's hard to extrapolate the Glasgow stats as to who is winning that battle. A modest increase in pax numbers considering the additional capacity and only anecdotal evidence otherwise with people saying easyJet's look full when boarding and others saying easyJet are averaging about 100 pax.

Similar with Edinburgh - Southampton. November's figures were 15% down year on year but for most of the year the differences are marginal when compared year on year, with the summer months actually being higher. Ryanair's Edinburgh- Bournemouth started in April, didn't it?

So I would say, at the moment there isn't much evidence to prove either way on Glasgow, but Edinburgh seems to be holding up pretty well.

[SKOJB]

Guess the real test will be when GLA with easyjet goes daily in May

[Hial Flyer]

Ive been using the LM flights to GLA fairly often since EZY started and they have been over 3/4 full each time.. They were like that before EZY started too

[Diff Tail Shim]

Ive been using the LM flights to GLA fairly often since EZY started and they have been over 3/4 full each time.. They were like that before EZY started too
Because Logan flights go to the places when people want to go there for business and come home again. EZY and RYR don't. And our poster hasn't even mention another LM base that isn't even looked at by the sharks. Seems the poster has a grudge against LM.

[SotonFlightpath]

Because Logan flights go to the places when people want to go there for business and come home again. EZY and RYR don't. And our poster hasn't even mention another LM base that isn't even looked at by the sharks. Seems the poster has a grudge against LM.

There will always be a certain number of people that need a multiple-times daily schedule for business and will be prepared to pay for it. Other people also need to be able to travel on a particular day, or time of day. As long as these people are happy and able to pay a premium for such a service I think there will continue to be a niche market for Loganair on regional routes.

I'm only a passenger and not an airline expert, but to me it feels that LM have exactly the right equipment in the shape of the ERJ 145 to deliver this service. If they possibly deployed a bigger capacity turboprop on the routes to Scotland, I think it could actually backfire on them. Yes, the seat costs would be lower, but not low enough to match EasyJet, but they would be offering an inferior service to those who can pay more, and these people may possibly desert to Heathrow for the comfort of a jet.

I'm sure EZY will eat into LM's market share, but I think they are offering a different product and there will always be some people prepared to pay for it. Waitrose will never outsell Tesco, but there's a market for both! Incidentally, back in the day, BA regional or whatever they were called then, were quite successful at Southampton using ERJ 135s and 145s to a number of business destinations in mainland Europe, from memory I'm pretty sure there were services to Zurich, Milan and Frankfurt amongst others. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still a potential market for business flights from Southampton if the right aircraft can be found and they were well-publicised. Hampshire/West Sussex/South Wiltshire/East Dorset is a very wealthy area and not everyone is looking for cheap and cheerful.

[willy wombat]

There will always be a certain number of people that need a multiple-times daily schedule for business and will be prepared to pay for it. Other people also need to be able to travel on a particular day, or time of day. As long as these people are happy and able to pay a premium for such a service I think there will continue to be a niche market for Loganair on regional routes.

I'm only a passenger and not an airline expert, but to me it feels that LM have exactly the right equipment in the shape of the ERJ 145 to deliver this service. If they possibly deployed a bigger capacity turboprop on the routes to Scotland, I think it could actually backfire on them. Yes, the seat costs would be lower, but not low enough to match EasyJet, but they would be offering an inferior service to those who can pay more, and these people may possibly desert to Heathrow for the comfort of a jet.

I'm sure EZY will eat into LM's market share, but I think they are offering a different product and there will always be some people prepared to pay for it. Waitrose will never outsell Tesco, but there's a market for both! Incidentally, back in the day, BA regional or whatever they were called then, were quite successful at Southampton using ERJ 135s and 145s to a number of business destinations in mainland Europe, from memory I'm pretty sure there were services to Zurich, Milan and Frankfurt amongst others. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still a potential market for business flights from Southampton if the right aircraft can be found and they were well-publicised. Hampshire/West Sussex/South Wiltshire/East Dorset is a very wealthy area and not everyone is looking for cheap and cheerful.
while I note your points there is no way that the market is segmented LM for business and EZY for leisure. Just taking a quick look at next Summer’s EZY GLASOU schedules, while they are all over the place as is standard for EZY regional domestics, on a Tuesday and a Friday they have late afternoon/evening rotations which will obviously be attractive to the business market to the detriment of the LM operation. If the EZY operation was a daily middle of the day round trip I would agree that maybe LM could coexist with them but not when they schedule at peak times.

[SWBKCB]

The EZY flights are at a different time each day. Vary wildly.

[Rutan16]

There will always be a certain number of people that need a multiple-times daily schedule for business and will be prepared to pay for it. Other people also need to be able to travel on a particular day, or time of day. As long as these people are happy and able to pay a premium for such a service I think there will continue to be a niche market for Loganair on regional routes.

I'm only a passenger and not an airline expert, but to me it feels that LM have exactly the right equipment in the shape of the ERJ 145 to deliver this service. If they possibly deployed a bigger capacity turboprop on the routes to Scotland, I think it could actually backfire on them. Yes, the seat costs would be lower, but not low enough to match EasyJet, but they would be offering an inferior service to those who can pay more, and these people may possibly desert to Heathrow for the comfort of a jet.

I'm sure EZY will eat into LM's market share, but I think they are offering a different product and there will always be some people prepared to pay for it. Waitrose will never outsell Tesco, but there's a market for both! Incidentally, back in the day, BA regional or whatever they were called then, were quite successful at Southampton using ERJ 135s and 145s to a number of business destinations in mainland Europe, from memory I'm pretty sure there were services to Zurich, Milan and Frankfurt amongst others. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still a potential market for business flights from Southampton if the right aircraft can be found and they were well-publicised. Hampshire/West Sussex/South Wiltshire/East Dorset is a very wealthy area and not everyone is looking for cheap and cheerful.

BACON were so successful the Irish gentleman dumped them are a few quid soonest he could :ugh:

[willy wombat]

The EZY flights are at a different time each day. Vary wildly.
That’s what I meant by their schedules being all over the place.

[willy wombat]

BACON were so successful the Irish gentleman dumped them are a few quid soonest he could :ugh:
Actually I think the Irish gentleman shelled out quite a lot of money to persuade you know who to take them away.

[SWBKCB]

That’s what I meant by their schedules being all over the place.

Yes - just reinforcing the point.

were quite successful at Southampton using ERJ 135s and 145s to a number of business destinations in mainland Europe, from memory I'm pretty sure there were services to Zurich, Milan and Frankfurt amongst others.

...and never picked up since.

[Rutan16]

Actually I think the Irish gentleman shelled out quite a lot of money to persuade you know who to take them away.

Sort true due to carried over debt- including some from other divisions ; that 767 was charged to them above typical market leasing rates .

Those Amazon jets weren’t and never have been appropriate for the European market , and especially after the flexible fares carriers arrived on the scene.

Work adequately flying from boon dock towns many lacking a regular coach services let alone rail connections (Greyhound and Amtrak make the UK services look positively luxurious and reliable by comparison ) into one or other US hub as life line services.

They were rather less suitable from Manchester/ Birmingham and Southampton when competing with the full sized 320/737 services of the EU mainline carriers, and rapidly expanding flexible fare carriers eating their lunch .

Still another life time ago now - we have voting adults today that weren’t even ameba back then.

Through is some circles the sour taste often lingers; then you sit back and see the massive explosion in range of destinations and indeed based fleets today compared to those of BA back in the day.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

BACON were so successful the Irish gentleman dumped them are a few quid soonest he could :ugh:
It's more that the offering to market changed. With no Ryanair or easyJet offerings, BACON may well be around today offering high frequency high fare business type service. But that old world died and so did they.

The EMB145s were ordered by British Regional and Brymon (both flying as BA) idependently pre merger for the likes of Scotland- BRS/CWL/SOU, but as soon as GO opened a BRS base, the market changed. BA ended up competing with itself at one point! I think the penny dropped quite soon after delivery that the business model they were ordered for was changing rapidly.

[Rutan16]

It's more that the offering to market changed. With no Ryanair or easyJet offerings, BACON may well be around today offering high frequency high fare business type service. But that old world died and so did they.

The EMB145s were ordered by British Regional and Brymon (both flying as BA) idependently pre merger for the likes of Scotland- BRS/CWL/SOU, but as soon as GO opened a BRS base, the market changed. BA ended up competing with itself at one point! I think the penny dropped quite soon after delivery that the business model they were ordered for was changing rapidly.

Yes also a history lesson today.

BA should have ditched them not hung onto them and then try to price match or operate a million times a day to Frankfurt ( the regions didn’t demand that much frequency)

Total disaster through BA competed with itself in the regions for several decades before .

The twin Birmingham Manchester mini hubs with sometimes parallel onward connections to Scotland and Belfast made little sense other than reflecting political realities of the time .

Regionally they may have survived by consolidating over one or the other , and indeed several years beforehand a transport report recommended just such a scenario with some services hived off to the likes of Dan Air and Britannia . Never happened through.

Ah that sale and withdrawal from the regions never does get old on these forums among those of a certain age :=

[Diff Tail Shim]

Yes - just reinforcing the point.



...and never picked up since.
Because of that nasty word that has damaged UK Aviation since 23 June 2016. Shapps should be introduced to the compressor of a CFM56-7 for the damage he has done to UK aviation.

[Diff Tail Shim]

There will always be a certain number of people that need a multiple-times daily schedule for business and will be prepared to pay for it. Other people also need to be able to travel on a particular day, or time of day. As long as these people are happy and able to pay a premium for such a service I think there will continue to be a niche market for Loganair on regional routes.

I'm only a passenger and not an airline expert, but to me it feels that LM have exactly the right equipment in the shape of the ERJ 145 to deliver this service. If they possibly deployed a bigger capacity turboprop on the routes to Scotland, I think it could actually backfire on them. Yes, the seat costs would be lower, but not low enough to match EasyJet, but they would be offering an inferior service to those who can pay more, and these people may possibly desert to Heathrow for the comfort of a jet.

I'm sure EZY will eat into LM's market share, but I think they are offering a different product and there will always be some people prepared to pay for it. Waitrose will never outsell Tesco, but there's a market for both! Incidentally, back in the day, BA regional or whatever they were called then, were quite successful at Southampton using ERJ 135s and 145s to a number of business destinations in mainland Europe, from memory I'm pretty sure there were services to Zurich, Milan and Frankfurt amongst others. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still a potential market for business flights from Southampton if the right aircraft can be found and they were well-publicised. Hampshire/West Sussex/South Wiltshire/East Dorset is a very wealthy area and not everyone is looking for cheap and cheerful.
The EJRs work well on the longer routes and the French Truck Bomber is the only alternative to it.

[Sotonsean]

Yes - just reinforcing the point.



...and never picked up since.

Although Zurich was never operated from Southampton by any other carrier than BACON your incorrect in regards to Frankfurt and Milan as both destinations were later flown by "or picked up, in your words" by Flybe.

Yes - just reinforcing the point 👉

[SWBKCB]

Apologies, Should have said "No longer operate". I know there's a list on one of the threads of all the routes dropped from SOU and when, should have checked.

[Sotonsean]

Apologies, Should have said "No longer operate". I know there's a list on one of the threads of all the routes dropped from SOU and when, should have checked.

If I remember correctly I actually wrote that particular list.

But apologies accepted from you which im sure your agree with is a first.

[virginblue]

Didn't Loganair explicitly state that they are done with international routes to the continent for good after they burned quite a bit of money on the routes they tried? Maybe the odd Scandinavian route, but otherwise my take is that they will concentrate on the British Isles in the future (whatever that means in the airline business).

[SotonFlightpath]

Didn't Loganair explicitly state that they are done with international routes to the continent for good after they burned quite a bit of money on the routes they tried? Maybe the odd Scandinavian route, but otherwise my take is that they will concentrate on the British Isles in the future (whatever that means in the airline business).

On reflection that’s probably a good decision, they are obviously operating reasonably successfully serving smaller airports and communities where the larger mainstream carriers feel there isn’t sufficient business to deploy their larger resources.

Perhaps one should think of Loganair as being the UK equivalent of Norway’s Widerøe?

[Albert Hall]

Didn't Loganair explicitly state that they are done with international routes to the continent for good after they burned quite a bit of money on the routes they tried? Maybe the odd Scandinavian route, but otherwise my take is that they will concentrate on the British Isles in the future (whatever that means in the airline business).

I seem to recall something along those lines, with Germany singled out for particular mention. It looks as though Scandinavia works - probably because of a lesser level of both direct and indirect competition and higher fares - but anything to continental Europe is/was off limits.

Back in the day of sizeable European non-stop services from Southampton, you didn't have this large low-fare operation called easyJet up the road at Gatwick. I'm not sure those type of services would work at SOU nowadays - you need high yields and your ability to get those with sufficient volumes to achieve a respectable loadfactor too is probably a stretch. Moot point though, really.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Didn't Loganair explicitly state that they are done with international routes to the continent for good after they burned quite a bit of money on the routes they tried? Maybe the odd Scandinavian route, but otherwise my take is that they will concentrate on the British Isles in the future (whatever that means in the airline business).
Never did international routes pre pandemic bar Oil and Gas. BMIR did. They went bust.

[ld0595]

Never did international routes pre pandemic bar Oil and Gas. BMIR did. They went bust.

They did Glasgow - Dusseldorf in 2019 after Eurowings pulled out. Google suggests they also did Edinburgh to Hannover for a while.
​​

[Diff Tail Shim]

They did Glasgow - Dusseldorf in 2019 after Eurowings pulled out. Google suggests they also did Edinburgh to Hannover for a while.
​​

Routes killed by Brexit.

[Saabdriver1]

Glasgow-Dusseldorf ex Eurowings and Newcastle-Brussels and a short lived run on EMA-Brussels ex BMIR were all flown. I don't think EDI-Hannover ever got launched but can't remember if that was Brexit or Covid (or both).

[Markushillman]

Glasgow-Dusseldorf ex Eurowings and Newcastle-Brussels and a short lived run on EMA-Brussels ex BMIR were all flown. I don't think EDI-Hannover ever got launched but can't remember if that was Brexit or Covid (or both).

Covid

[Diff Tail Shim]

Covid
And never considered viable to return. Covid just accelerated the effects of Brexit.

[Markushillman]

And never considered viable to return. Covid just accelerated the effects of Brexit.

Yeh possibly, and not to get into a political debate, but with Aviation out of the UK booming again post Covid, I think to keep blaming brexit now is a bit wrong.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Yeh possibly, and not to get into a political debate, but with Aviation out of the UK booming again post Covid, I think to keep blaming brexit now is a bit wrong.
Whom wants to fly to Brussels? We will see if CAA figures for 2023 are on a par with 2019. The economy decides air travel accurately. I do know the B word cost Logan a lot of money and time to sort out the regulatory mess.

[Markushillman]

Credit goes to @SeanM1997 on X

But quoted from him below

Quote:
Loganair are trimming many frequencies in Summer 2024 with Aberdeen-Oslo cut completely and reductions to Aberdeen-Manchester, Edinburgh-Exeter, Edinburgh-Southampton, Glasgow-Derry & Glasgow-Southampton among others

[VickersVicount]

watch EZY trim back their competing routes now to eg Bournemouth and Southampton

[SealinkBF]

And never considered viable to return. Covid just accelerated the effects of Brexit.

Going off topic but I believe COVID was an excuse for Brexit complications

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Whom wants to fly to Brussels? We will see if CAA figures for 2023 are on a par with 2019. The economy decides air travel accurately. I do know the B word cost Logan a lot of money and time to sort out the regulatory mess.
That's intetesting, can you expand a bit? Was it an additional expense in the move to ATRs?

[Sotonsean]

watch EZY trim back their competing routes now to eg Bournemouth and Southampton

Why?

Easyjet operates from Glasgow to Southampton, the airlines only Scottish flight to the south coast Airport.

Easyjet doesn't fly any domestic flights to Bournemouth let alone any from Scotland.

[cuthere]

Credit goes to @SeanM1997 on X

But quoted from him below

Quote:
Loganair are trimming many frequencies in Summer 2024 with Aberdeen-Oslo cut completely and reductions to Aberdeen-Manchester, Edinburgh-Exeter, Edinburgh-Southampton, Glasgow-Derry & Glasgow-Southampton among others

But increasing LDY-LHR by 7x week in each direction for summer. Any idea where the slots have come from?

[MARKEYD]

watch EZY trim back their competing routes now to eg Bournemouth and Southampton

You need to do a bit more research regarding EasyJet routes before you post

[davidjohnson6]

Go easy on Vickers. You know what he/she means about Easyjet possibly reducing frequency to the south coast of England now that Loganair have decided they want to reduce SOU flying

[VickersVicount]

You need to do a bit more research regarding EasyJet routes before you post
… :rolleyes:

[CabinCrewe]

Go easy on Vickers. You know what he/she means about Easyjet possibly reducing frequency to the south coast of England now that Loganair have decided they want to reduce SOU flying
Agree, its well known the low cost carrier spoiler tactics to South Coast such as BOH, SOU etc If your convinced they’ll stick around in current format once Loganair shoved out, then looks like research needed elsewhere. Ryanair can be slightly more persistent in my experience.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Credit goes to @SeanM1997 on X

But quoted from him below

Quote:
Loganair are trimming many frequencies in Summer 2024 with Aberdeen-Oslo cut completely and reductions to Aberdeen-Manchester, Edinburgh-Exeter, Edinburgh-Southampton, Glasgow-Derry & Glasgow-Southampton among others
He work for Loganair?

[MARKEYD]

… :rolleyes:

Well for a start as an example EasyJet don’t fly to Bournemouth on domestic routes

[Sotonsean]

Well for a start as an example EasyJet don’t fly to Bournemouth on domestic routes

Which I correctly pointed out in my previous post 439. I can't believe that you have had to point it out as well 😕

[goldeneye]

Could see LM reducing flights between GLA & SOU etc when EZY launched the route. There is no way they can complete with easyJet fares. LM could provide the multiple daily frequency but not at the sort of fares EZY can deliver with a larger aircraft.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They're not complimentary, easyJet can take just enough volume off Loganair to kill yields, and hence no multiple daily frequency. On these niche routes with tight margins, it's not like one operator is for holidays and another solely for business. I don't see room for both.

[fjencl]

And when ecojet join the EDI - SOU - EDI route, that's more competition.

[davidjohnson6]

And when ecojet join the EDI - SOU - EDI route, that's more competition.
Are Ecojet really going to happen ? I've got them down in the "Hmm... let's see if an aeroplane really does take off with fare-paying passengers" category

[Albert Hall]

Looking at the SOU-GLA schedule, LM have taken out the flights where easyJet were sitting right on top of them, but have left everything else. It's gone from 4pd to 3pd on weekdays up to Thursday then stayed where it was on Fri, Sat & Sun. So for example easyJet fly early afternoon on Mondays and the LM 1400 ex GLA and 1600 ex SOU have been taken out. easyJet fly early morning on Wednesday so the LM 0645 ex GLA and 0840 ex SOU have gone. Probably wise to avoid scheduling on top of each other.

SOU-EDI has gone back to a conventional 4pd with no nightstop.

In the current market it's hard to see where these EcoJet people believe that they can secure aircraft in time and recruit crews. They are starting to make visible moves but I just don't understand what they think they can do. It's shaping up to be Flybe Mk3, I think.

[Diff Tail Shim]

From the very little I hear, this was in train before that blew up. I am sure the immature acts of a departing pilot would not trigger this - most airlines would change CEO every week if they left office on the basis of a stupid social media post by an employee! The pilot concerned has some long overdue growing up to do. They take a very dim view of that sort of thing in Holiday House.

I suspect JH has a very good idea of what’s ahead.
That social media mash I have just seen. Immature to say the least. Libelous as well.

[adfly]

From SeanM1997 on twitter - Loganair are to drop their Glasgow to Exeter route from 29th March.

They seem to have quite a few cuts to routes across the network recently, most being ones without competition. Are we just seeing a fall off in demand, or is the pilot shortage mentioned on here taking its toll on the airline?

[BA318]

Luke Farajallah has been named as CEO of Loganair. A varied CV having worked at Specialist Aviation Services since 2019, as COO at Flybe from 2015-2018, and among other positions COO at Wizz Air and Spanair.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/luke-farajallah-70a21446_i-am-humbled-and-honoured-and-massively-activity-7166466794176634881-9Ysd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

[CabinCrewe]

Luke Farajallah has been named as CEO of Loganair. A varied CV having worked at Specialist Aviation Services since 2019, as COO at Flybe from 2015-2018, and among other positions COO at Wizz Air and Spanair.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/luke-farajallah-70a21446_i-am-humbled-and-honoured-and-massively-activity-7166466794176634881-9Ysd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
Flybe Wizz and Spanair… mmm, what a bunch.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Flybe Wizz and Spanair… mmm, what a bunch.
He's worked for Brymon beforehand then 17 years at BA so hopefully his eyes are opened to the challenges

[TBSC]

A very sensible guy.

[Diff Tail Shim]

A very sensible guy.
Also well known by the share holders.

[jethro15]

Luke Farajallah was in charge of Specialist Aviation Services which went into administration just after it was sold to Gama Aviation last year. Gama is also behind the new Bond helicopters which is Peter Bond, who is one of the shareholders in Loganair. Could it be that the shareholder want’s more influence over the running of Loganair? It strikes me as more than a coincidence that a new CEO has been announced only six weeks after the last one left, and who has also strong connections with the shareholder’.

Furthermore, Stephen and Peter Bond announced in October 2022 that Loganair was being offered for sale with a sale date completed by mid-2023. However, it was announced 06 Oct 2023 that Loganair was no longer for sale citing: “specific issues impacting the world-wide supply chain availability and costs”.

Could it be that the shareholders decided that a change of CEO to someone who is more malleable was the direction to go in? which appears to have been achieved. The fact that the previous CEO left so suddenly without any prior warning makes me wonder.

[RHagrid]

Luke Farajallah has been named as CEO of Loganair. A varied CV having worked at Specialist Aviation Services since 2019, as COO at Flybe from 2015-2018, and among other positions COO at Wizz Air and Spanair.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/luke-farajallah-70a21446_i-am-humbled-and-honoured-and-massively-activity-7166466794176634881-9Ysd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
Sounds like your usual "Jack of all Trades and Master of None" Aviation Business expert.

[MidlandsWanderer]

Luke Farajallah was in charge of Specialist Aviation Services which went into administration just after it was sold to Gama Aviation last year. Gama is also behind the new Bond helicopters which is Peter Bond, who is one of the shareholders in Loganair. Could it be that the shareholder want’s more influence over the running of Loganair? It strikes me as more than a coincidence that a new CEO has been announced only six weeks after the last one left, and who has also strong connections with the shareholder’.

Furthermore, Stephen and Peter Bond announced in October 2022 that Loganair was being offered for sale with a sale date completed by mid-2023. However, it was announced 06 Oct 2023 that Loganair was no longer for sale citing: “specific issues impacting the world-wide supply chain availability and costs”.

Could it be that the shareholders decided that a change of CEO to someone who is more malleable was the direction to go in? which appears to have been achieved. The fact that the previous CEO left so suddenly without any prior warning makes me wonder.

What makes you think that the Bonds are detached from the day-to-day running of the airline? My understanding is that they have always been pretty hands-on at least as far as Peter Bond is concerned.

[SWBKCB]

Sounds like your usual "Jack of all Trades and Master of None" Aviation Business expert.

Sounds like your usual uninformed speculation.

[SealinkBF]

At least it's not C.O-W

[OzzyOzBorn]

She has now popped up as CEO at French Bee. How does she do it?

[Saabdriver1]

What makes you think that the Bonds are detached from the day-to-day running of the airline? My understanding is that they have always been pretty hands-on at least as far as Peter Bond is concerned.

Are you getting your Peters mixed up? If this one has been involved on a day-to-day basis then it's certainly been kept very well hidden for as long as that's been happening.

[Rivet Joint]

She has now popped up as CEO at French Bee. How does she do it?

She is female and talks about women’s rights. That seems to be a key to any role on a board nowadays.

forget about the number of airlines she has ran into the ground which ironically led to many women losing there jobs and of course the odd scandal, she will bring woke to our airline and that’s what customers and colleagues want nowadays (apparently).

[Mooncrest]

I assume Jonathan Hinkles is no longer at Loganair. Does anyone know if he has taken up a new position?

[Diff Tail Shim]

I assume Jonathan Hinkles is no longer at Loganair. Does anyone know if he has taken up a new position?
You would be correct and seeing his LinkedIn posts haven't mentioned a new position, I assume he is having a break from the hassle.

[Diff Tail Shim]

From SeanM1997 on twitter - Loganair are to drop their Glasgow to Exeter route from 29th March.

They seem to have quite a few cuts to routes across the network recently, most being ones without competition. Are we just seeing a fall off in demand, or is the pilot shortage mentioned on here taking its toll on the airline?
Ask ATR or Embraer about the lead time for spares as well. Pandemic killed repair shops everywhere and they haven't got back up to speed.

[manx crab]

Does anyone know why ATR72 G-LMTB does not seem to be able to be used for flights into London City?.

It has only rarely been used on the IOM routes and even when here did not go to LCY.


​​​​

[SealinkBF]

From the Mirror, reporting on a Which? article. No real surprises, but glad to see Loganair in the "top half!"!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/265x498/airlines_f378bbdd839918a97896ca4282ffce0ac4d4ae71.png

[SKOJB]

From the Mirror, reporting on a Which? article. No real surprises, but glad to see Loganair in the "top half!"!



Maybe for business travellers yes but for leisure they are ridiculously expensive. SOU-GLA return in May with EZY is £88 versus LM’s £236!

[Saabdriver1]

Does anyone know why ATR72 G-LMTB does not seem to be able to be used for flights into London City? It has only rarely been used on the IOM routes and even when here did not go to LCY.
​​​​

TB isn't equipped with the steep approach kit for LCY. If it appears in IOM, it's because of an on-the-day operational need and won't be there long. Of the new ATR72-600s you probably won't see much of the three Colombian aircraft in IOM either - they have potable water system which they can't service in IOM.

[Saabdriver1]

You would be correct and seeing his LinkedIn posts haven't mentioned a new position, I assume he is having a break from the hassle.

A couple of colleagues had been in touch with him and he is indeed taking a break. That doesn't stop the speculation about what he's going to do next though. It will certainly be something!

[jethro15]

With regard to Jonathan Hinkles departure, what have we got so far? To summarise:

Post 384: ‘A loss for the company. You will never work for a more professional CEO in this industry’.

Post 390: ‘For those that know, was the recent ‘Social Media’ production and subsequent email from JH to all staff the straw that broke the camel’s back?

Post: 392: ‘Paid off but old and maintained in house?’

Post 393: ‘I suspect JH has a very good idea of what’s ahead.

Post:395: ‘Which is probably why JH has left as he can foresee a very difficult future. For the 6 years I worked for them from 2014-20, he certainly did an excellent job, especially from the useless one before him. I do feel the board have a very critical decision who replaces him. I fear that things will only go downhill from here’. (A sentiment I strongly agree with!)

Post 460: (My own, no need to repeat)

Post 475: ‘A couple of colleagues had been in touch with him and he is indeed taking a break. That doesn't stop the speculation about what he's going to do next though. It will certainly be something!’

From: Chief executive tells why he quit Glasgow airline Loganair | The Herald (heraldscotland.com) (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24079737.chief-executive-tells-quit-glasgow-airline-loganair/) "It serves no-one well for there to be a prolonged period of farewells, uncertainty and indecision in leadership. With all that in mind, I left the building for the final time a few hours ago."

Many airlines worldwide have/are experiencing problems with the AT72 fleet. Loganair are NO exception. It appears that once proposed acquisition timelines can no longer be adhered to through no fault of their own. Plus, as ‘Diff Tail Shim’ pointed out in Post 470, spares are also VERY difficult to come by. (Eastern have also succumbed)

One thing that also struck me was the attention paid to the farewell flights to the SAAB 340 flights. Many videos online are from pure enthusiasts and posted online via social media. However, when you look at the background of many of the ground shots taken, the proliferation of Loganair advertising did not pass me by. Who needs tv? Who was responsible for that?

My fear for Loganair is that the shareholders have taken the decision to willingly replace a competent CEO with someone they can manipulate to dispose of Loganair.

PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!

[SWBKCB]

My fear for Loganair is that the shareholders have taken the decision to willingly replace a competent CEO with someone they can manipulate to dispose of Loganair.

Wasn't LM up for sale under Hinkles?

[Atlantic Explorer]

With regard to Jonathan Hinkles departure, what have we got so far? To summarise:

Post 384: ‘A loss for the company. You will never work for a more professional CEO in this industry’.

Post 390: ‘For those that know, was the recent ‘Social Media’ production and subsequent email from JH to all staff the straw that broke the camel’s back?

Post: 392: ‘Paid off but old and maintained in house?’

Post 393: ‘I suspect JH has a very good idea of what’s ahead.

Post:395: ‘Which is probably why JH has left as he can foresee a very difficult future. For the 6 years I worked for them from 2014-20, he certainly did an excellent job, especially from the useless one before him. I do feel the board have a very critical decision who replaces him. I fear that things will only go downhill from here’. (A sentiment I strongly agree with!)

Post 460: (My own, no need to repeat)

Post 475: ‘A couple of colleagues had been in touch with him and he is indeed taking a break. That doesn't stop the speculation about what he's going to do next though. It will certainly be something!’

From: Chief executive tells why he quit Glasgow airline Loganair | The Herald (heraldscotland.com) (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24079737.chief-executive-tells-quit-glasgow-airline-loganair/) "It serves no-one well for there to be a prolonged period of farewells, uncertainty and indecision in leadership. With all that in mind, I left the building for the final time a few hours ago."

Many airlines worldwide have/are experiencing problems with the AT72 fleet. Loganair are NO exception. It appears that once proposed acquisition timelines can no longer be adhered to through no fault of their own. Plus, as ‘Diff Tail Shim’ pointed out in Post 470, spares are also VERY difficult to come by. (Eastern have also succumbed)

One thing that also struck me was the attention paid to the farewell flights to the SAAB 340 flights. Many videos online are from pure enthusiasts and posted online via social media. However, when you look at the background of many of the ground shots taken, the proliferation of Loganair advertising did not pass me by. Who needs tv? Who was responsible for that?

My fear for Loganair is that the shareholders have taken the decision to willingly replace a competent CEO with someone they can manipulate to dispose of Loganair.

PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!

Not to mention their crewing problem. They are haemorrhaging crew to a wide variety of companies. Not necessarily all due to the company but certainly the morale seems very low. The crewing issue will hamper the company plans going forward which is one of the reasons why we’re seeing routes cut. Difficult times ahead for sure!

[Diff Tail Shim]

Not to mention their crewing problem. They are haemorrhaging crew to a wide variety of companies. Not necessarily all due to the company but certainly the morale seems very low. The crewing issue will hamper the company plans going forward which is one of the reasons why we’re seeing routes cut. Difficult times ahead for sure!
Pay vs home and life balance is never considered by certain people.

[jmdavies86]

Maybe for business travellers yes but for leisure they are ridiculously expensive. SOU-GLA return in May with EZY is £88 versus LM’s £236!

Are you comparing like-for-like price-wise though...?!

Did you add hold baggage to your EZY fare to take into account the 15kg that you automatically get with LM (even on their lowest fare...!), and did you add any extra on-top for refreshments too, which is something else that you get included - even if it's just a cup of tea & a Tunnocks Caramel wafer bar...?!

[Markushillman]

Are you comparing like-for-like price-wise though...?!

Did you add hold baggage to your EZY fare to take into account the 15kg that you automatically get with LM (even on their lowest fare...!), and did you add any extra on-top for refreshments too, which is something else that you get included - even if it's just a cup of tea & a Tunnocks Caramel wafer bar...?!

Well easily £114 with easyjet, with 23kg hold bag and seats round trip. Not sure the carmel wafer and tea are quite worth the extra £150 or so

[SKOJB]

Are you comparing like-for-like price-wise though...?!

Did you add hold baggage to your EZY fare to take into account the 15kg that you automatically get with LM (even on their lowest fare...!), and did you add any extra on-top for refreshments too, which is something else that you get included - even if it's just a cup of tea & a Tunnocks Caramel wafer bar...?!

not everyone flying to GLA wants hold luggage included so the easyJet fare was for a small onboard bag only. Food and drink shouldn't bother most travellers on an hour flight

[Diff Tail Shim]

not everyone flying to GLA wants hold luggage included so the easyJet fare was for a small onboard bag only. Food and drink shouldn't bother most travellers on an hour flight
But most business passengers want early flights in and late flights out. You add the price of the hotel and food into the price model with EZY and it is the same.

[V12]

Well easily £114 with easyjet, with 23kg hold bag and seats round trip. Not sure the carmel wafer and tea are quite worth the extra £150 or so


Not just ANY caramel wafer, that's a Scottish Tunnocks Caramel Wafer!

Did you know we consume 5m per day? (well, not me personally)

[Jamesair1]

I should hope not or we would have to change POSTS 168 to WEIGHT 168 kg.

[fjencl]

Does LM base ATR72-600 at Glasgow if so how many and on what route or routes do they operate on, thanks.

[GeorgeNTravels]

Does LM base ATR72-600 at Glasgow if so how many and on what route or routes do they operate on, thanks.

Yeah the do, mainly operating Islay, Benbecula, Sumburgh, Kirkwall and Donegal.

I think it's a single ATR based, with 2 Twin Otters and 2 E145's

[fjencl]

Yeah the do, mainly operating Islay, Benbecula, Sumburgh, Kirkwall and Donegal.

I think it's a single ATR based, with 2 Twin Otters and 2 E145's

That's much appreciated, thanks.

[Hial Flyer]

Yeah the do, mainly operating Islay, Benbecula, Sumburgh, Kirkwall and Donegal.

I think it's a single ATR based, with 2 Twin Otters and 2 E145's

Its an ATR42-600 that is based at Glasgow, not an ATR72. The aircraft swaps each day in Kirkwall.

[fjencl]

Its an ATR42-600 that is based at Glasgow, not an ATR72. The aircraft swaps each day in Kirkwall.

Jethros currently showing that they have 6 ATR72 - 600's passenger configuration currently in the fleet, with another 3 arriving end of Feb - Apr 2024, so maybe they are
based elsewhere around the network but none at Glasgow then.

[GeorgeNTravels]

Its an ATR42-600 that is based at Glasgow, not an ATR72. The aircraft swaps each day in Kirkwall.
Ooops, misread it, ta for the correction

[topoverhaul]

Not just ANY caramel wafer, that's a Scottish Tunnocks Caramel Wafer!

Did you know we consume 5m per day? (well, not me personally)
5m per week is correct.

[Markushillman]

Credit to @SeanM1997 as always

Loganairs pso route Benbeclua - Stornoway not for sale for s24, PSO tender is awaiting the results. But suggests that these airports could *potentially* see a new airline

[fjencl]

Credit to @SeanM1997 as always

Loganairs pso route Benbeclua - Stornoway not for sale for s24, PSO tender is awaiting the results. But suggests that these airports could *potentially* see a new airline


What type of aircraft currently operates this service

[Markushillman]

What type of aircraft currently operates this service

ATR42 on Thursday.

Tbh can't really see who else will operate it other than Loganair. Will be interested to see what others were on the tender

[Diff Tail Shim]

ATR42 on Thursday.

Tbh can't really see who else will operate it other than Loganair. Will be interested to see what others were on the tender
Whom else operates anything remotely similar? Only Tricky Dickies lot. J41 from ABZ?

[Markushillman]

Whom else operates anything remotely similar? Only Tricky Dickies lot. J41 from ABZ?

Yeh must be Eastern, only other option. Just can't see them winning it in a million years. But with the world nowadays anything is possible. I'm sure the passengers will look forward to their legendary on time performance. :E

[Fletch]

Whom else operates anything remotely similar? Only Tricky Dickies lot. J41 from ABZ?

Could it be Ecojet out of Edinburgh?🤷‍♂️

[SWBKCB]

Could it be Ecojet out of Edinburgh?🤷‍♂️

You would need to be able to prove you can fulfill the contract i.e. be an airline with an AOC, which isn't happening for Summer 24.

What's the idea of a PSO that operates once a week?

[Ascupart]

Looking at CAA data I see that Loganair is doing better now than pre-pandemic in terms of passenger numbers but with only a moderate increase in flights compared to 2019:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/823x688/logan1_16b151e0208ba4783c11c8b7c8780ac802f2375c.png

perhaps linked to the change in aircraft type:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x694/l2_7a81891f02b02785379dc3ac8b20bb7c277c5870.png