EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

[EchoKilla]

Rumour mill:
https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/05/17/exclusive-emirates-to-permanently-decommission-40-of-airbus-a380-fleet-axe-nearly-a-third-of-cabin-crew-and-pilots/

Edited so that I don’t sound so alarmist - for our discussion and possibly true. I would ignore the numbers

[GKOC41]

Ben on the rumour mill sometime.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

ECHOKILLER - Piss poor tasteless stressful factually devoid alarmist post. Why don't you be a good boy/girl and remove it.

The author is sooooooo full of credibility. Not

Mateusz Maszczynski is a serving international flight attendant with experience at a major Middle East and European airline. Mateusz is passionate about the aviation industry and helping aspiring flight attendants achieve their dreams. Cabin crew recruitment can be tough, ultra-competitive and just a little bit confusing - Mateusz has been there and done that. He's got the low down on what really works.

[roca]

Honestly what do you expect; he is of the same group always posting bs against the company. And now just trying to create more havoc with such an infectious post. As all those idiots who claim they are happier since they left but they still have to keep logging into this forum to trash anyone who says something favorable pf the company or that other group that bi..ch incessantly about how unhappy they are here and how miserable is the company but don't have the cojones to say the same things during the washups or even leave the company

[PanAmFalcon]

The 380s would probably be stored away for a year or so. Nothing concrete yet

[DuneMentat]

Whether we like it or not, there's going to be a sizable reduction in number of aircraft and crew for the foreseeable future. If it's 20, 30, 40 or 50% remains to be seen but I would not be surprised if the numbers quoted in the article turns out to be pretty spot on

[atakacs]

I guess anyone with half a brain should see it. TBH 30% workforce reduction would be a best-case scenario IMHO.

[SOPS]

Let’s say ( and nothing has been announced) .. best case 2O percent .. worst case 50 percent. This will rip through the whole economy of Dubai.


Pilots who are retrenched that own their own homes.. who will they sell them to? I’m guessing there is not a big demand at the moment. Likewise cars .. you have to leave .. any market for your car?


i have no idea of the figures.. but I’m guessing EK pilots and cabin crew spend a lot of money in Dubai. Remove 50 percent of them ( worst case).. that’s going to hurt.

If this happens. It won’t be pretty.

Good luck to all

[mbr136]

Hopefully all that does not come to a reality. Too many families will be affected. For the time being is one of the very few companies (if not the only one) that is holding thousands of people with part of the salary, at home without working, or not doing much. In many other companies you would be fired in no time, as already happened.
Lets hope that all that does not happen.

[White Knight]

Paddleyourcanoe? Sister publication of the National Enquirer???

[FlyingAce77]

I guess anyone with half a brain should see it. TBH 30% workforce reduction would be a best-case scenario IMHO.
I totally agree with you on this, let’s just ignore the Article but common sense says If even A380s are grounded for a year, CC & deck crew won’t be getting paid sitting at home, atleast reduction in headcount would be necessary.

[White Knight]

On another note; this would be a perfect time to start job share for those guys/gals that are interested. Reduces the overheads but keeps people employed which as SOPS alludes to is what Dubai Inc. needs. I'm sure many options and scenarios are being discussed!

[EchoKilla]

fyi I’m still there as well. This is a rumour forum....

[FlyingAce77]

This is what Bloomberg is Reporting

https://t.co/a0rymYomLX?amp=1

[den3aah]

As expected, it turned out to be a rumour...
Official Response from the Dubai government:

Emirates spokesperson: “No announcement has been made regarding mass redundancies at the airline. Any such decision will be communicated in an appropriate fashion. Like any responsible business would do, our executive team has directed all departments to conduct a thorough review of costs and resourcing against business projections, even as we prepare for gradual service resumption. As our Chairman has said, conserving cash, safeguarding our business, and preserving as much of as our skilled workforce as possible, remain our top priorities through this period.”

[Econ101]

As expected, it turned out to be a rumour...
Official Response from the Dubai government:.”

Den3aah, please note there was no denial.

Emirates spokesperson: “No announcement has been made regarding mass redundancies at the airline. Any such decision will be communicated in an appropriate fashion.

Correct, no official announcement has been made "yet". Article states EK is drawing up plans to scrap some 380s. I would hope so, to ensure the future economic viability of the airline - it is prudent to reduce 380 numbers.

As airframes disappear, the natural consequence will be flight deck and cabincrew redundancies.

If you didn't see this coming or prefer denial and to hide your head in the sand, good luck to you.

[den3aah]

I would much prefer to hear it from the source.... The original rumour is dubious and comes from a shoddy website that claims to be legitimate (posted by a flight attendant apparently?). There is no doubt that every airline on earth is going to review their operations and their workforce; EK isn't immune to this. I am interested to see if they actually scrap A380's or store them bearing in mind that they were hoping to use them til 2030? Let's not forget that they are expecting a huge 777-X order next year so getting rid of 30% of their workforce now might be drastic if you look at costs involved in hiring new cabin crew in the future and training them etc ....
Just thinking out loud .... I wish them the best of luck!

[White Knight]

This is what Bloomberg is Reporting

https://t.co/a0rymYomLX?amp=1

Total cods. Firstly there aren't 105,000 employees! Try 63,000 EK/DNATA bods...

[EchoKilla]

the original article might be from a shoddy source but Bloomberg isn’t shoddy. And EK isn’t denying anything. Anyone with common sense knows there will be cuts coming no matter what - it’s sad but true. 30,000 from Bloomberg wasn’t just made up - 100% internal discussions are happening - and it’s Emirates Group not just the airline. Expect a delay on the 777x delivery... that’s also common sense.

[fatbus]

Airline @63K Group @103K

380 original order was 5 then 55 then 90 then 120? Then 140? . Maybe back to the 55 plan .

777X standby for order adjustments /delays . Huge disaster for Dubai , pending bailout from Abu Dhabi.

[Airbubba]

The 380s would probably be stored away for a year or so. Nothing concrete yet

From Arabian Business:

Speculation is also mounting that the airline could permanently decommission 40% of its A380 fleet, with 46 of its aircraft never to fly passengers again.

Sources also told Arabian Business the airline is considering laying off the majority of its A380 pilots, maintaining only 20 of its superjumbo fleet, to focus on the Boeing 777s instead.

Emirates had announced last year it would gradually retire its A380 fleet after cancelling does of orders. Airbus then declared it will stop production of the aircraft in 2021.

The news comes two weeks after its President Sir Tim Clark told The National newspaper “the A380 is over” and that the airline would be 20-30 percent smaller as a result of the coronaivurs pandemic.


https://www.arabianbusiness.com/travel-hospitality/446842-emirates-conducting-thorough-review-of-costs-as-speculation-grows-over-a380-future

[Monarch Man]

Hardly a surprise really, and lets be honest here..any business is looking at the demand going forward.
As an expat you assume a certain level of risk, in this instance it would be wise to be reducing risk as much as possible.
If I was a betting man I'd wager the 380 fleet will be shrunk to 40 airframes as rapidly as they can do it.
There are I suspect an awful lot of sub 6yrs of service pilots and the usual cadre of trouble makers nervously checking their emails right now.

[skeggman]

As expected, it turned out to be a rumour...
Official Response from the Dubai government:

Emirates spokesperson: “No announcement has been made regarding mass redundancies at the airline. Any such decision will be communicated in an appropriate fashion. Like any responsible business would do, our executive team has directed all departments to conduct a thorough review of costs and resourcing against business projections, even as we prepare for gradual service resumption. As our Chairman has said, conserving cash, safeguarding our business, and preserving as much of as our skilled workforce as possible, remain our top priorities through this period.”

I was talking to a friend who still works at EK on Friday night, he is in IT, not a pilot or CC. They are already making IT staff redundant (around 200 or so in the last 2 weeks) and there is talk of another 1,000 odd being given marching orders in the coming two weeks. He is an EK10 (as I was) and is now actively looking for new roles within the UAE and abroad.

So what I am saying, is I wouldn't believe anything that comes the Dubai govt. As anyone knows who has lived there, they are not known for being open, honest and transparent.

[skeggman]

Total cods. Firstly there aren't 105,000 employees! Try 63,000 EK/DNATA bods...

Think your maths may be a little out. When I left around 2 1/2 years ago EK and Dnata combined was around 100,000.

[White Knight]

Yeah, fair go. Was just looking at the EK number and mistaking it for the group!

[Piet Lood]

Honestly what do you expect; he is of the same group always posting bs against the company. And now just trying to create more havoc with such an infectious post. As all those idiots who claim they are happier since they left but they still have to keep logging into this forum to trash anyone who says something favorable pf the company or that other group that bi..ch incessantly about how unhappy they are here and how miserable is the company but don't have the cojones to say the same things during the washups or even leave the company

Typical.
So you don’t want to hear negative stories from ex-employees. You don’t want to hear negative stories from current employees, because they should just leave. Once they leave they shouldn’t post any warnings for others on here either.
Basically, all you want to here are happy-go-lucky stories about the company, have I got that right?

[roca]

I don’t want to hear incendiary Stories without any true support. But of course in this forum anyone that posts anything that is positive is trolled around by people like you.
This is not the time to be posting such incendiary and baseless “rumours”.

[planeur]

CC crew are currently being terminated in bulk by google meeting 100 clicks to the south and pilots are bracing themselves for the inevitable. This is unfortunately not a rumour. Any announcement from "United", the Government etc? Of course not. I certainly hope the shed will be kept to a minimum but it doesn't seem that way. To think that the company will actually consider whether an employee has debts, car, house, kids in school etc or the effect of terminations on the economy of the country is naive.

Obviously a rocky road ahead. Just a time to be stoic and hope for the best.

[twofrogs]

I have to agree with Roca, the same usual suspects having a massive chip on their shoulder from some EK trauma. They bring no impartial advice to potential expats, they remain absorbed in their own bitterness, unable to let go, I suspect not that happy in their new lives.
For many of us the prospect of having to leave the UAE would be a sad day, for myself back to the UK depressing as hell.
Since the whole world aviation scene is in the same situation, I see little point in EK bashing with potential reductions, it's just throwing stones in glass houses. Best to wish everyone good luck wherever they are and show no ill will to those less or more fortunate that yourself.

[EchoKilla]

no one is actually bashing EK - just stating the facts and it isn’t just EK that is getting the end of the stick here. Everyone in our industry is praying to avoid a pink slip. Look at every forum here - everyone is spending some nail biting days. It’s just a discussion and sadly a mere inevitability- forget the numbers - the culling is happening in all angles as we speak. As someone said even in the back offices of EK - IT Finance FD you name it. And not just that but also all the major airlines. So this is just a mere convo of what is going to happen in the next few days for many of us - it isn’t a fight - it is mere truth - things are bad and will only get worse till one day get better

[QA_270]

Everyone should think about what they post. Clearly some people have no thoughts for the sensitivity of the words they post.

[donpizmeov]

Apart from the number of employees, I have not seen many facts posted here. I have seen that post from the cabin crew website quoted, and used as a source for Bloomberg, but that doesn't make it fact.

Truth is, no-one knows what the future holds. Perhaps pilots will be let go, or perhaps whiteknight may be proved right with month on month off commuting. No-one knows until the decision is made and communicated by the company.

Relying on a cabin crew run website to decide what the future holds is just plain stupid. We hate the unknown, and not being able to plan ahead. But there is nothing that can be done now except wait. We need to wait for the company to communicate what the way forward is. Then we can plan, and all move forward. Perhaps that's in a different direction to where we thought we were going only a few months ago.

This is really weighing hard on some of our colleagues. So keep an eye out, and be supportive where needed. If we don't look after each other, no-one else will.

[777boyindubai]

Don, as usual, is on the money. Very sad to see the Aviation World on its knees. We need to be thoughtful and sensitive in what we post. Ultimately again referring to Don, if we don’t take care of each other’s families then who will?

There are some top notch people at EK and I feel for them. Several have families with small kids half a world away. Panic inducing rumours are not helpful.

Best wishes to everyone.

[777boyo]

Emirates Group Employee numbers 2019/2020 Financial Year averaged 105,730 - taken from the published and public Annual Report, which can be found here:
https://cdn.ek.aero/downloads/ek/pdfs/report/annual_report_2020.pdf

[Emma Royds]

There are around 57K EK staff and around 17K DNATA staff based in the UAE. Most DNATA employees are now based outside of the UAE nowadays anyway.

As White Knight said, hopefully we can emerge from this with some alternative work/lifestyle options for those that wish to embrace them. It will be very sad if the company goes straight for the jugular and reduces staff numbers without offering jobsharing/part time etc, which could limit any potential job losses.

[Piet Lood]

I don’t want to hear incendiary Stories without any true support. But of course in this forum anyone that posts anything that is positive is trolled around by people like you.
This is not the time to be posting such incendiary and baseless “rumours”.

“I don’t want to hear...”
”Trolled around by people like <me>”.
You remind me of Captain Veldhuyzen-van Zanten.
Something like: “Only my opinion matters, and if your opinion is different I don’t want to hear about it. If you don’t like it, why don’t you sod off? But after you sod off, I don’t want to hear your complaints either”.
It’s a common theme these days: “true support” to a story is in the eye of the beholder and it’s very common nowadays to discard, ignore or ridicule anything that doesn’t support ones opinion or point of view.
You definitely don’t have to agree with me, but I sure as hell don’t have to agree with you either.
Difference is: I don’t regard you as a troll. Merely arrogant. (Takes one to know one).

[krismiler]

It would be foolish to think that EK will not be severely affected by this pandemic. They have no domestic network, a relatively small amount of origin/destination traffic and rely on long haul international connecting flights which will be the last sector to recover, particularly in the premium cabins.

Large areas of the world are likely to remain off limits for some time to come and they include most of the countries migrant workers come from. Transit bubbles between virus free countries are likely to require direct flights and if this isn't possible the enroute stop will be for fuel and crew change only. The A380 and B777 will be too big for the immediate future and whilst the A350 and B787 are more suited, they also enable competing airlines which operate them to offer direct flights on routes which previously wouldn't have made money and were left to hub airlines.

It's not all bad news though, EK are integral to Dubai and will get significant government support.

[Mr Good Cat]

The leisure market makes up a significant portion of Ek's income. This will be the first sector to recover so it's not all bad. However the coming recession will obviously dent the market as people look to spend less. However, since Dubai itself relies heavily on tourism I can see them reducing the price of package holidays to make it more competitive with the mediterranean for european customers. The A380 is useless for most airlines, but since EK operates several frequencies a day to most destinations they can always consolidate certain routes into a single A380 service per day - as long as the flight is cheap enough they'll fill the seats,

First and Biz Class yields will take a hammering for a few years, but it will come back. We live in an ultra-capitalist champagne showcase society. People will still want to post selfies of their private suites on their A380 honeymoon.

[777boyindubai]

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/transport/446925-dubais-dnata-confirms-substantial-number-of-employees-have-been-stood-down

[donpizmeov]

Piet Lood

I am wondering if you are his ex wife and still a bit upset. What a lot of emotional dribble.

[tornspar]

Your all crackers if you think EK give a rodents rectum about any of you -your slaves in dxb just to make the government money,when they don’t need you -your gone ASAP just like your beloved leader STC! You will all get your marching orders very soon unfortunately.Remember which country you are in and who you work for -it may lessen the blow mentally when the inevitable happens.Good luck to you all

[Piet Lood]

In that case: I want HALF of everything he owns.

[skeggman]

It's not all bad news though, EK are integral to Dubai and will get significant government support.

Unfortunately, Dubai's main source of income is from tourism, and that won't be picking up anytime soon.

[PanAmFalcon]

I predict there will be decrease in frequency but no destinations being cut. That would mean some of the less profitable stations will be axed and contracted off. Obviously that would be a shame.

[sheikhthecamel]

Wouldn't it then make sense to consolidate that demand for seats into a larger aircraft? Say one shaped like an A380...?

[krismiler]

Decreasing frequencies makes a connecting flight far less appealing, 2-3 hours in between is fine to stretch your legs and look around the shops but once that goes much past 4 hours a direct flight starts to look more attractive. 10 hours journey time vs 17 hours total would swing it for most people unless the fare difference was considerable.

Smaller aircraft are needed in this case which is another nail in the coffin for the A380. Two B787 flights per day instead of one A380 will be required to keep connection and total journey times to acceptable levels.

[dubaidude316]

100% true. I am ex-EK with contacts to executive management. As the original statement said, the study in underway and yes 30% is the number they are looking at. As ****ty as the reality is, it is true however there will be many airlines globally who will be forced to follow the same path.

[Jet II]

Wouldn't it then make sense to consolidate that demand for seats into a larger aircraft? Say one shaped like an A380...?

only if there was the demand to fill it - once you get to a 777 being overbooked you get into the kinds of issues krismiler alludes to like connection times.

The other point is that a 777 can carry more freight to offset the drop in passenger numbers so may reach profitability on a particular route before the Whale

[fatbus]

The global aviation business is not going to bend over backwards to welcome EK back . This is their opportunity to re evaluate and re write agreements . Everything will change and nothing will be like it was . EK thrived on medium /long haul hub and spoke. They will now have to re envent themselves. 787/350/ FZ/EY . I would even think the 779/8 are vulnerable to a huge adjustment. Current EK guys are bracing themselves for the axe to fall.

[PanAmFalcon]

100% true. I am ex-EK with contacts to executive management. As the original statement said, the study in underway and yes 30% is the number they are looking at. As ****ty as the reality is, it is true however there will be many airlines globally who will be forced to follow the same path.
but they won’t axe routes and such?

[fatbus]

Why not ? They have in the past . Money talks !

[glofish]

Wouldn't it then make sense to consolidate that demand for seats into a larger aircraft? Say one shaped like an A380...?As much as i feel for the stubborn urge to resuscitate the dodo, errr, sorry, the 380, i fail to understand how down to earth pilots with a pretence of having a well developed common sense still keep that urge up.

This aircraft works well when deployed on more than 85% occupancy routes, with a lot of well paying business and first customers, in sufficient numbers and with cheap fuel. Today only the latter still applies and this will stay for the near and middle future.

What the big airlines now need, is an aircraft that can economically operate mid- to long-haul routes, can remain economically viable down to 40% occupancy, has a big belly to take up huge freight loads when passengers are scarce, but when they show up in bigger numbers can still accommodate a nice chunk of them.

It’s more or less a one size fits all that makes a restart financially viable, not many desirable variations. These more specific versions, with their economical advantage on niches, will come back once the situation gets back to what it was. But that will take time.

Now put yourself into shoes of managers and not creationists and the graphs on these websites displaying the birds actually aloft start making sense.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Tanzania has just announced complete reopening of its borders to international air travel.

[Stick Flying]

At least theres an abundance of sand around.

[Gordomac]

Unmentionable down the road has just made significant cc lay-offs. Don't know about pilots or other categories. Can;t mention the unmentionable. Numbers I can't confirm but I got the info from one involved. Inevitable I guess but still sad.

[donpizmeov]

The author of the article might not be that reliable (he was cabin crew for only 6 years at EK)....a lot of the stuff he posts has a ring of truth to it and some totally true. He has contacts at EGHQ that give him these tip offs. Regardless of the article...we all know a substantial amount of layoffs are coming in order to for EK to regain its footing. Being in denial and getting angry when someone mentions the inevitable is just lying to yourselves.Best start preparing for Plan B.

Didn't you leave years ago for a Low Cost out of Cape Town? I hope that plan B worked out well for you.

A very confusing thread this one, as not many of these posts actually come from EK pilots. But it does seem like everyone else has an opinion.

I hope all the EK pilots (and groupies and hangers on this thread has attracted) are doing well. One day, this will all be over. Those normal nights of sleep you have been getting use to will be over, and we will be able to bitch and moan about normal sh@t again.

For those Gent EK retired pilots, thanks for your thoughts. I know several of you went through this type of disruption once or even a few times in your career. Let's hope we learnt some lessons from you.

[Adam Barfy]

AF beaching the whale immediately

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/air-france-phases-out-a380-with-immediate-effect/

[nolimitholdem]

Kind of bizarre to see don of all people pleading for sensitivity, speaking of emotional dribble. Next Sir Tim will be on here asking that we all just get along and give each other a hug.

As to the lack of comments from actual EK pilots, allow me to relay that in speaking to a couple of those exact specimens, I would say that the rumours are pretty bang on. A big cull expected last week, just didn't materialize yet. Lots of speculation as to the reasoning for some odd roster codes.

Quibble if you want about the numbers but when most of a business is built on the most vulnerable type of flying (longhaul) in the most vulnerable sector on earth (aviation) I'm not sure why people are so defensive. Downsizing is inevitable, no reason to think EK will be immune.

Not really opinion, more like basic economics.

And one truism: no one will cry for EK.

[Dropp the Pilot]

We could have let one "dribble" usage slide but now there are two. The word is "drivel".

[Jet II]

And one truism: no one will cry for EK.


Those poor sods who lose their jobs and cant get another in current environment will. I dont understand this bizarre hatred for EK - if you dont want to work for them dont apply for the job.

[donpizmeov]

nolimitholdem

Although you may be speaking with a EK pilot, you still are an ex Ek pilot. You see my point now? Of course you don't. You are the special one right? Bloody groupies.

[DuneMentat]

While not directly EK related this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/coronavirus-dubai-70percent-of-companies-expect-to-close-in-six-months.html?) from CNBC mentions up to 70% of Dubai based businesses closing in the next 6 months.

[donpizmeov]

I see Tim Clark has been interviewed in the Financial Times. Says EK has no plans to dispose of any aircraft apart from the 3 A380s and the 9 777s that were already planned to be retired. When asked about job loses, he stated that it will be business driven, and no decision has been made yet.

He expects all aircraft flying again by summer 2022, with a slow growing of market between now and then.

[fatbus]

Little bit of good news for EK , maybe just delayed along with redundant numbers not as high as the prune experts have proclaimed .

[dragon man]

Of course he wouldn’t gild the Lilly would he?

[donpizmeov]

He very well could be. But, at least the source of this article has a name, unlike that annon cabin crew one. It's also from someone that might even be involved with the process, which is far different to any of the “ I spoke to a friend, who has a cousin ...” etc type posts.

If you want to call the TC out for not telling the truth in international press, that's your right.

[Emma Royds]

The engineer who signed the Tech Log on my last flight a few days ago used the term 'long term storage' for the majority of the 380 fleet, which funnily enough corresponds to TC's most recent quote. EK has always prided itself in having the ability to bounce back quickly from tougher times in the past and I suspect they will want the same agility again. This is tough to achieve if you don't have enough pilots to fly your parked jets and the lead time to recruit and train new pilots takes months.

If we see some 380s being placed into storage rather than being disposed of, it raises the conundrum of how the company will manage a potentially sizable number of pilots not flying for several months yet still keeping them as employees. I doubt very many will have an appetite for a prolonged period of unpaid leave.

It's worth remembering that behind each staff number is a colleague who probably has a spouse and a family to support. Losing your job here has far more ramifications than it does if we were back at home, since you are faced with the certainty of not only moving home but moving country and uprooting kids from school too, for those that have them and are in Dubai. A traumatic experience for all concerned and one that would probably test a few marriages too I am sure.

Good luck to all. :ok:

[PanAmFalcon]

Emirates is already trying to open up to a few destinations. They will eventually begin proper transit service in the coming weeks to help people get where they need to be. So redundancies may not be as massive as we thought. Emirates is good on cash reserves for now and with an anticipation of starting flights, they will minimize their losses further.

[White Knight]

If we see some 380s being placed into storage rather than being disposed of, it raises the conundrum of how the company will manage a potentially sizable number of pilots not flying for several months yet still keeping them as employees. I doubt very many will have an appetite for a prolonged period of unpaid leave.


350/787 deliveries brought forward possibly?

[SOPS]

Emirates is already trying to open up to a few destinations. They will eventually begin proper transit service in the coming weeks to help people get where they need to be. So redundancies may not be as massive as we thought. Emirates is good on cash reserves for now and with an anticipation of starting flights, they will minimize their losses further.

i really have to ask Pan Am. Where do imagine these people will come from.. and where will they want to go?

Most people I know won’t even think about Overseas travel for the next 2years.

[White Knight]

Most people I know won’t even think about Overseas travel for the next 2years.

People have surprisingly short memories SOPS... I guess many Aussies won't want to leave their bubble perhaps, but as the rest of the world has been pretty much infected it may be a sooner than you think!

IMHO...

[FlyingCroc]

I don’t think the World is infected, in Asia almost nothing anymore and in Europe the situation improved because of the lockdown. The situation will never go back to normal in a short period of time. This summer it will slowly open provided the numbers don’t go up again steeply. For now we have to live with the virus unfortunately, so I doubt there will be massive traveling this year. The Middle East airlines will be be hit hard because they are hub airlines with massive amounts of passengers gathering.
I foresee rather point to point connections between countries with lower infection rates. Like within Asia or within Europe.

[Emma Royds]

350/787 deliveries brought forward possibly?

I wonder if the five completed 350-1000s that are currently destined for EY, may find a new home? Four have been in storage at BOD for several months now with the remaining aircraft finishing flight testing at present in TLS.

[glofish]

If it was some -900 (or for that hypothetical matter -800) i guess they'd be on their way to the neighbor soon. They need smaller equipment. But with the closeness of the -1000 to the workhorse 77W, i's not urgent, the old dog still performs adequately.

[Adambrau]

i really have to ask Pan Am. Where do imagine these people will come from.. and where will they want to go?

Most people I know won’t even think about Overseas travel for the next 2years.

There is a fair bit of Int'l Travel. People stuck due to border restrictions, people who came to USA for medical issues, dual citizens, and essential travel. AF at JFK fills about 200 pax on days we op pax flights. Cargo has their own flights. This is now. In the future, depending on border openings, there will be a demand.

[PanAmFalcon]

i really have to ask Pan Am. Where do imagine these people will come from.. and where will they want to go?
.
Since globalization people have more than 1 home. Some want to return to the country they work at, students going back to schools etc. leisure travelers are at a all time low but a lot of people have places to be for A lot of reasons. That is why countries are opening up their borders in Europe, airlines such as Lufthansa and Turkish are eager to start limited services and hospitality industry opening their doors a little bit. The virus will be here for many months (or weeks if we are lucky) and people have places to be.

[FlyingOW]

And so it has begun...

[Aircrafter1]

Today’s announcement, that pilots under training and probation have been terminated

[PanAmFalcon]

I feel for the ones going through training

[White Knight]

Today’s announcement, that pilots under training and probation have been terminated

Where has that been announced?

[Aircrafter1]

Letters have been sent to the pilots. I have personally seen one.

[BigGeordie]

All the pilots under training and probation or just some?

[White none please]

Is that initial training of all types of courses?

[Newcomer2]

As a gesture of goodwill, they're giving them 14 days notice instead of 7 :}

[5th job loss]

As a gesture of goodwill, they're giving them 14 days notice instead of 7 :}

better than 7 days as per contract

[The Outlaw]

ECHOKILLER - Piss poor tasteless stressful factually devoid alarmist post. Why don't you be a good boy/girl and remove it.

The author is sooooooo full of credibility. Not

Alarmist? I'd say it's well on its way to being factual. Removing bad news from a rumor site won't make the reality any less stressful.

Stay tuned, there will be more coming...a lot more.

[halas]

Post Eid, no Life-of-Brian missives, no comms, no policy, no nothing.

halas

[DuneMentat]

Alarmist? I'd say it's well on its way to being factual. Removing bad news from a rumor site won't make the reality any less stressful.

Stay tuned, there will be more coming...a lot more.
While my thoughts are with the affected I fully agree with you.

This is, from the companies point of view, just low hanging fruit. With simulators not running at the moment and not enough sectors available for meaningful training you are just not producing anything and since they only have to pay you 7 days (yes they doubled that for the ones affected) it was unfortunately an easy decision to cut costs. Hopefully this will buy them some time to see how the market recovers and how deep they will need to cut next round.

[The Outlaw]

Honestly what do you expect; he is of the same group always posting bs against the company. And now just trying to create more havoc with such an infectious post. As all those idiots who claim they are happier since they left but they still have to keep logging into this forum to trash anyone who says something favorable pf the company or that other group that bi..ch incessantly about how unhappy they are here and how miserable is the company but don't have the cojones to say the same things during the washups or even leave the company

I love this guy!

He calls people idiots because they left EK and found a better job somewhere else and are happy! I would have been SERIOUSLY concerned if I was still at EK today with the knowledge of Tim Clark's statement, " The A380 is over".

[donpizmeov]

I love this guy!

He calls people idiots because they left EK and found a better job somewhere else and are happy! I would have been SERIOUSLY concerned if I was still at EK today with the knowledge of Tim Clark's statement, " The A380 is over".

You don't think Airbus saying they weren't going to make anymore had maybe been a hint to the 380s demise? I think they said that SERIOUSLY as well, but it was in frog talk so I guess a bit hard to tell.

[White Knight]

I would have been SERIOUSLY concerned if I was still at EK today with the knowledge of Tim Clark's statement, " The A380 is over".

Except that the 380 is going to be doing a fair bit of flying from July 1st (current plans) and ramping up as the weeks go by! I guess we'll all just have to wait and see!

[fatbus]

First round of redundancies, those still in training . @200 some rumours saying 300, both fleets .

[SOPS]

If anyone does not believe this is real .. I have a friend who is ex Thomas Cook..was under training. I have seen his letter of termination.. it’s real .

[warhammer]

Honestly what do you expect; he is of the same group always posting bs against the company. And now just trying to create more havoc with such an infectious post. As all those idiots who claim they are happier since they left but they still have to keep logging into this forum to trash anyone who says something favorable pf the company or that other group that bi..ch incessantly about how unhappy they are here and how miserable is the company but don't have the cojones to say the same things during the washups or even leave the company

why are you loggining in anyway? Anyone can login anywhere they want!

[macdo]

If anyone does not believe this is real .. I have a friend who is ex Thomas Cook..was under training. I have seen his letter of termination.. it’s real .
Sadly, so have I.

[Life Vest]

Just out from the ARN News Centre

Emirates Airline has revealed that it will be saying goodbye to a few of its employees.

In a statement, the airliner clarified that it will continue to reassess the current situation impacted by the COVID-19 outbreak and is doing “everything possible to protect jobs”.

The Dubai-based carrier explained that they will be looking after impacted employees, and they will be treating them with fairness and respect.

Emirates also said that although flights have been slowly returning to the skies with the necessary safety measures in place, the pandemic is impacting many industries and business operations.

We reviewed all possible scenarios in order to sustain our business operations, but have come to the conclusion that we unfortunately have to say goodbye to a few of the wonderful people that worked with us.

[Life Vest]

A sad day when we have to read about the fate of our colleagues from a news feed. No correspondence from the company to us. Radio silence when it comes to bad news.

[Cantbebothered]

A sad day when we have to read about the fate of our colleagues from a news feed. No correspondence from the company to us. Radio silence when it comes to bad news.
Heard from people in Training College.... Pilots and cabin crew who are on probation or still in training college got terminated today.Tragic news for them. The number of people was not as high as it was made out to be before. https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/emirates-confirms-staff-layoffs-as-pandemic-hits-air-travel-demand-1.1027002

[737user]

Pilots from both fleet or just a380?

[EchoKilla]

this is only the start. Probationary is norm for all organizations to axe. Then comes the other rounds

STC is due to address the Group on Monday - will be interesting to see by the usual email or a forum....

Heard from people in Training College.... Pilots and cabin crew who are on probation or still in training college got terminated today.Tragic news for them. The number of people was not as high as it was made out to be before. https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/emirates-confirms-staff-layoffs-as-pandemic-hits-air-travel-demand-1.1027002

[Jet II]

Sad news - at least the company are protecting their visa and accommodation until they can return to their home countries. Thought they could be more generous than 14 days pay though.

[Go4PoweredDecent]

Sadly it's true.

All pilots on probation plus for now an additional 100 approx. Total number laid off is around 270. Across 380 and 777.

They will be paid until June 15th and Emirates will assist where re-patriation may prove difficult at this time.

I know guys who's things are still on the boat on the way out to Dubai, and they will be gone before their belongings even show up and have to be sent back again.

It's a mess. Rumour is lots more redundancies to be announced but for today, that is it.

[Emma Royds]

Publishing negative news is not within the remit for Corp Comms so at best, there may be a few words from departmental heads but it would not surprise me if we hear nothing at all. You could be forgiven for thinking Saddam's Information Minister 'Comical Ali' is moonlighting as a PR consultant to EK.

I hope I am proved wrong but the next edition of the Life of Brian will probably be full of the joys of life whilst extolling the virtues of the new 777 roof rack modification. Meanwhile, there are some colleagues who found out today that they will no longer have a job in 14 days time and will probably barely get mentioned. I hope management don't bury their heads in the sand with this issue, as is often custom in these parts of the world.

[Monarch Man]

Good luck to one and all....

[14 6]

ECHOKILLER - Piss poor tasteless stressful factually devoid alarmist post. Why don't you be a good boy/girl and remove it.

The author is sooooooo full of credibility. Not

“Factually devoid” you reckon Rex-mate? You are probably the only one on this forum who could not see this coming! Sorry, I am being unfair, roca also couldn’t!

My sympathy goes out to all the good folks who received the bad news today. This has happened to me twice already, so my thoughts are with you!

[krismiler]

With reduced flying all round but only the A380 fleet being affected by decommissioning it would seem that this fleet would be most impacted by the layoffs. Any idea percentage wise A380 vs B777, will the reductions be for pilots.

Cabin crew are likely to be dual fleet rated and if not, are easy to qualify on a different type so seniority is easier to implement.

[Pif Paf]

I feel for all those who got the letter. whether they'd just got here. had "almost" finished training or were close to finishing probation! . Being far from home and not being sure how and when they will get back and what will be waiting back at home is not a nice situation. So maybe try to temper the sentiment here and give support to any you know.

So we have a rough idea of pilot numbers but anybody know roughly how many cabin crew got the letter? I hear that those with contracts that are up for renewal are only getting a 2 month extension. It will put some perspective on the numbers cut.

Take care out there

[Capn Rex Havoc]

146 -
“Factually devoid” you reckon Rex-mate? You are probably the only one on this forum who could not see this coming!

I never stated that there would be no firings, I was objecting to to the initial posters alarmist claim that 1/3 of Pilots and Cabin crew will be sacked. 1/3 of pilots is approx 1350, and I don't see that it will be that high. I was also protesting the validity of the source of this initial rumour.

My heart goes out to the affected colleagues, I have been at 2 former airlines that went bankrupt,(both operating 146s coincidently) it is a terrible terrible time.

[donpizmeov]

146 -


I never stated that there would be no firings, I was objecting to to the initial posters alarmist claim that 1/3 of Pilots and Cabin crew will be sacked. 1/3 of pilots is approx 1350, and I don't see that it will be that high. I was also protesting the validity of the source of this initial rumour.

My heart goes out to the affected colleagues, I have been at 2 former airlines that went bankrupt,(both operating 146s coincidently) it is a terrible terrible time.

Don't worry REX, most understood what you meant.

Sad day for ground staff in Australia. This virus is ruining more lives of the healthy than those of the sick.

Now is the time to stick together and look after each other. The only thing different between those losing a job and those that didn't is a date of joining at the moment.

Rumour has it the last of the cabin crew will hear about there fate today. They have been told they can be rehired when things improve.

Let's hope we get some type of communication from the company soon.

PS. The number of pilots with contracts terminated is not as high as the numbers posted several posts above. The news is bad enough without making stuff up. Let's just stick with facts. They are incredibly hard to come by when fleet etc have gone silent.

Do we still have chief pilots etc? If a line pilot displayed the communication skills of the Muppets they would be sent away for retraining.

[FatPilot]

at least the company are protecting their visa and accommodation until they can return to their home countries.

Thought they could be more generous than 14 days pay though
Accommodation and visa costs them nothing but possibly gains them some extra credits in the post-Ramadan afterglow. Someone's head will now need to roll for having gambled away half a salary for those 200. Maybe they plan to recover it in rent charges and visa fines for those unable to depart on time.

[donpizmeov]

Accommodation and visa costs them nothing but possibly gains them some extra credits in the post-Ramadan afterglow. Someone's head will now need to roll for having gambled away half a salary for those 200. Maybe they plan to recover it in rent charges and visa fines for those unable to depart on time.

This is not the time for BS comments like this. These families have enough to deal with without having to hear false statements. Try and at least pretend to have some empathy for what is happening.

[Jet II]

Accommodation and visa costs them nothing but possibly gains them some extra credits in the post-Ramadan afterglow. Someone's head will now need to roll for having gambled away half a salary for those 200. Maybe they plan to recover it in rent charges and visa fines for those unable to depart on time.

That is not fair - those that cannot leave are being allowed to stay in their company accommodation (or keep getting their accommodation allowance) and keep their Visa past the 14 days notice and they will get a subsistence payment from the company of 25% until they can leave.

I think that is fair and the only thing I would like to have seen is a 30 day notice.

[fatbus]

Agree with jet2.
why would heads roll and what is your solution FP.
I'm afraid more to come , how and when is anyone's guess .

[donpizmeov]

Agree with jet2.
why would heads roll and what is your solution FP.
I'm afraid more to come , how and when is anyone's guess .

Are you referring to the industry, Norwegian or EK fatty?

[squarecrow]

https://aviationvoice.com/emirates-confirms-upcoming-job-cuts-amid-the-crisis-202006012019/

[FlyingAce77]

https://aviationvoice.com/emirates-confirms-upcoming-job-cuts-amid-the-crisis-202006012019/

Its no rocket science that downsizing is coming” Head counts will be reduced unfortunately...

[Jet II]

STC is due to address the Group on Monday - will be interesting to see by the usual email or a forum....


What did he say?

[EchoKilla]

It wasnt an internal convo as one would have wished. But TC will be an advisor imminently for EK and since I have caused a stir for even starting this post to get it thru everyone's head that more cuts are on their way. The fact that I still sit here in DXB wishing myself I dont get that "call"....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-emirates-airline/emirates-could-take-four-years-to-resume-flying-to-entire-network-idUSKBN2381Q8


What did he say?

[14 6]

It wasnt an internal convo as one would have wished. But TC will be an advisor imminently for EK and since I have caused a stir for even starting this post to get it thru everyone's head that more cuts are on their way. The fact that I still sit here in DXB wishing myself I dont get that "call"....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-emirates-airline/emirates-could-take-four-years-to-resume-flying-to-entire-network-idUSKBN2381Q8

Echo, keep on posting, in this big cone of silence, any morsel of news is welcome. I am always amazed to see the reaction towards the messengers delivering possible warnings! It does not have to be 100% accurate, but where there is smoke.........at least one is able better prepare (brace) for what is coming.

When I started in this airline business a long time ago, one of the wise old-timers told me that nothing ever turns out as good or as bad as it initially looks. So, just make your preparations keeping above mentioned wisdom in mind and the outcome should be better than sticking your head in the sand. Only listening to good news will ruin us.

[donpizmeov]

Does anyone know who the chief pilot of the Bus fleet is at EK? We haven't heard anything from him/her, nor anyone else really, and I am hoping they are all ok.
Thought I should send an email to check on how they are going, and update them on how the pilot group is going.

A great chance to interact with the pilot group.....wasted. Must be too busy checking sick days and productivity stats.

[EchoKilla]

one of them is capn wham bam B.al.M ....

Does anyone know who the chief pilot of the Bus fleet is at EK? We haven't heard anything from him/her, nor anyone else really, and I am hoping they are all ok.
Thought I should send an email to check on how they are going, and update them on how the pilot group is going.

A great chance to interact with the pilot group.....wasted. Must be too busy checking sick days and productivity stats.

[donpizmeov]

one of them is capn wham bam B.al.M ....

Aaaaaaarrrr.....No he is not. Do you really work at EK?

[The Outlaw]

Aaaaaaarrrr.....No he is not. Do you really work at EK?

One is bader than the others...or at least used to be.

[donpizmeov]

One is bader than the others...or at least used to be.

True, but that all changed last year.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

EchoKiller - The fact that I still sit here in DXB wishing myself I dont get that "call"....

and yet you don't know that Bader is no longer the Chief Pilot, hmmmm .....

[fatbus]

The guy now is a real loser ! Shocking they made him CPA., but then again. They want a YES man and they got a winner. Absolute clueless individual.

[BigGeordie]

They didn’t say that. Expect both.

[jetstreem]

50% basic cut extended for a further 3 months. Any adjustments to other benefits?

[felixthecat]

Alfa B ... fishing by any chance? None of us know anything.

[Alfa bravo]

Alfa B ... fishing by any chance? None of us know anything.
Never mind

[Jet II]

50% basic cut extended for a further 3 months. Any adjustments to other benefits?

Not that I have heard. I have to say that I do think that EK have handled the situation pretty well so far when compared to other airlines around the globe. The sliding scale of pay reductions from 50% for management grade and 25% for the rest with no cuts for those on the bottom of the scale who can least afford it. At least no layoffs apart from those on probation - hopefully things will pick up enough to prevent any future job losses.

[Emma Royds]

Not that I have heard. I have to say that I do think that EK have handled the situation pretty well so far when compared to other airlines around the globe. The sliding scale of pay reductions from 50% for management grade and 25% for the rest with no cuts for those on the bottom of the scale who can least afford it. At least no layoffs apart from those on probation - hopefully things will pick up enough to prevent any future job losses.

There is no sliding scale from July onwards. Based on the email sent on the 7th June, the vast majority of EK employees will now face a 50% salary cut for the months of July, August and September. For our colleagues in the cabin, only the CSAs have been spared and will remain on full salary.

I hope the banks will continue to show some flexibility with debt repayments for those affected.

[DuneMentat]

Heard from someone in the office, all meeting rooms have been booked for 2 weeks from Tuesday by HR

[fatbus]

DM , Means nothing ! Wait for more confirmed info

[EchoKilla]

When u say in the office - were u booking a room? Coz most of the “office folks” aren’t booking too many rooms so much these day

Heard from someone in the office, all meeting rooms have been booked for 2 weeks from Tuesday by HR

[DuneMentat]

When u say in the office - were u booking a room? Coz most of the “office folks” aren’t booking too many rooms so much these day
No I'm trying to stay away from the office. But the fact that most meeting rooms are booked with most still working from home to me means something is about to happen. I don't expect a big announcement rather just the first thing people will hear is when they get asked to come in for a meeting.

[firegrass]

No I'm trying to stay away from the office. But the fact that most meeting rooms are booked with most still working from home to me means something is about to happen. I don't expect a big announcement rather just the first thing people will hear is when they get asked to come in for a meeting.

It's started.....

[Python27]

... Another batch of e-mails for several pilots for a meeting with flight ops...

[macdo]

Word on the wire is 599 more redundancies. Commiserations if true

[DuneMentat]

Looks like majority A380 but also some 777 are affected

[SOPS]

Good luck everyone and look after each other.

[felixthecat]

There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the guys who have had the letters. Many senior guys who have apparently good records.

[DuneMentat]

There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the guys who have had the letters. Many senior guys who have apparently good records.

no it really seems like they’ve just chosen mostly at random although anybody with warning letters or attendance issues (justified or not) seems to all have been selected

[TBSC]

no it really seems like they’ve just chosen mostly at random although anybody with warning letters or attendance issues (justified or not) seems to all have been selected
Just like the way it was done at the pink and purple brigade. No wonder as the flight ops management was imported from EK.

[SpamCanDriver]

Firstly thoughts to the people getting the letters, absolutely horrible.

But you say lots of senior guys, are they also older? Although completely not fair, it would make sense from a business point of view to get rid of people close to retirement. Rather than someone with many years of service left.

To be clear not endorsing anything, just trying to see if there is any logic, rather than completely random

[Dropp the Pilot]

It is unlikely that the people cutting your pay checks have failed to notice that they can have two new captains for the price of one who is at the top of the scale. To avoid any nasty last in/first out squabbles all they have to do is the rescind the work-to-65 policy or even reduce the madatory retirement age to 58 or so.

[felixthecat]

Guys in early 50s with letters

[FlyingAce77]

Guys in early 50s with letters

These aren’t Deck crew near to retiring age then.. Is it First in Last out?

[felixthecat]

First in last out doesn’t appear to be in this case

[FlyingAce77]

First in last out doesn’t appear to be in this case
Thought so. This is just Sad.

[Jet II]

So about 270 probation flight crew and another 600 today giving almost 900 - what proportion of the total FC workforce is that?. Were the original rumors of 30% redundancies correct?

[FlyingAce77]

So about 270 probation flight crew and another 600 today giving almost 900 - what proportion of the total FC workforce is that?. Were the original rumors of 30% redundancies correct?
I’m literally Scratching my head.. 900 is a big number. All or most are from A380?

[Airbubba]

These aren’t Deck crew near to retiring age then.. Is it First in Last out?

Folks with two-digit seniority numbers have meetings scheduled from what I'm told. :eek:

Don't forget the mask and the dress code as the email says. :ugh:

[WB1900]

Folks with two-digit seniority numbers have meetings scheduled from what I'm told. :eek:

Don't forget the mask and the dress code as the email says. :ugh:
wait for new normal on your pay check if u survive it
apparently it’s everybody with more than min pay
so far „we take care of our employees after 31 years of consecutive profits, the well being is important“
and there will be 32nd year with a lot of dead bodies in the basement
what’s clear is that new hires will not a 25k base and not anything like we know as benefits

[krismiler]

https://smashnewz.com/emirates-laying-off-flight-attendants-and-pilots/

A few weeks ago I wrote rumors that Emirates Airline would start laying off employees and I was considering grounding much of the A380’s fleet permanently. Although we do not yet know about the future of the A380 fleet, Emirates is today informing a significant number of flight attendants and pilots who are about to end.
EMIRATES BEGINS MASS LAYOFFSA couple of weeks ago Emirates fired newly hired flight attendants and pilots who had recently completed training or were still trained. Today the airline took job cuts to the next level, including the layoff of many employees who had been with the company for a long time.

Based on my sources, e-mails were sent to many flight attendants and pilots late at night, informing them that they had to attend mandatory meetings today at Emirates training college.

It appears that the airline has essentially engaged in group layoffs. When people arrived at training college, their names were removed from a list and assigned a room. Once the room was filled, there was a quick meeting informing everyone that they were going to be closed:


There was no mention of the possibility of being summarized in the future
The managers responsible for the fires said they had no detailed insights into the reason and that they were the messengers only
I understand that the layoffs were largely aimed at those who had previously received warnings, those who suffered from serious illnesses and those who had previously failed training

At the conclusion of these meetings, employees received letters describing what the closure process will look like:


There is a 90 day notice period
There is no right of appeal against the dismissal decision
Since the company issues work visas to the UAE, there is a 29-day “grace period” beyond the 90-day notice period and, at that point, people must leave the country
For situations where employees cannot leave the country due to the closure of borders, these visas can be extended
Those who are to remain in the country will continue to receive housing and receive 25% of their basic salary
At the time of separation with the company, employees will receive any pending renumbering, the value of unused annual leave and an end-of-service benefit

Emirates advances with further layoffs of the cabin and pilot crew
OTHER EMIRATES EMPLOYEES GET 50% WAGES REDUCTIONSThis week’s news for Emirates employees goes beyond closed news. Many company employees who are still in employment receive a 50% reduction in their base salary between July 1 and September 30, 2020.

Over the past two months, the company has reduced wages for many frontline employees by 25%, but now that amount is increasing.

For flight attendants, the reduction in real wages is greater than 50%:


The basic salary is reduced by 50%, but flight attendants are also normally paid for flight hours
With most flight attendants flying very little (if at all), they also lose their flight wages
This means that for many flight attendants the pay cut is 60% longer

Emirates is also cutting wages for many employees by 50%
BOTTOM LINEMy thoughts are with all those of Emirates today who are losing their jobs. It is especially difficult when you get fired after moving somewhere for a job, with no chance of staying. Many people have built lives in Dubai, now they are forced to leave them behind.

In the end we don’t know how many people Emirates fired and we may not know for a while. Also, the odds are that we will see more layoffs in the coming weeks, as it would appear that they are making layoffs in stages.

First they fired those still in training, then they fired those who had performance problems and who knows which group would be next …

[SaulGoodman]

https://smashnewz.com/emirates-laying-off-flight-attendants-and-pilots/

what a great company....
halas

[GH66]

A "great company" indeed... The only thing great about this company is the staff who have endured many years contributing to the company's repeated success and then are treated like used rags and kicked out the doors without any showing of grace or gratitude. Girls and Guys invested their lives at this ungrateful company and certainly should be shown more respect from these megalomaniacs. Years of loyal service chopped for petty warnings (in most cases) and genuine sicknesses (many from over-working)! God help these maniacs and hope we never forget next time they need to recruit...

[FlyingAce77]

what a great company....
halas
600 is the number I’m hearing when it comes to Deck Crew”

[donpizmeov]

I really don't think EK could have handled today any worse. Very disrespectful to the fellas and girls that were led into the slaughterhouse.
Ladies and gents I am lost for words for what happened today and how you were treated.

[FlyingAce77]

I really don't think EK could have handled today any worse. Very disrespectful to the fellas and girls that were led into the slaughterhouse.
Ladies and gents I am lost for words for what happened today and how you were treated.
Im sooo sorry to hear! Prayers and wishes for all the colleagues at EK and for their families.

Though I wouldn’t except good from Any ME3 airline” their mindset is just of slave mentality.

[hulabaloome2]

Has anyone been able to ascertain the criteria used for the redundancies ?

[FlyingAce77]

A "great company" indeed... The only thing great about this company is the staff who have endured many years contributing to the company's repeated success and then are treated like used rags and kicked out the doors without any showing of grace or gratitude. Girls and Guys invested their lives at this ungrateful company and certainly should be shown more respect from these megalomaniacs. Years of loyal service chopped for petty warnings (in most cases) and genuine sicknesses (many from over-working)! God help these maniacs and hope we never forget next time they need to recruit...
This is the case In all over Middle East” They will get their lesson soon” Karma bites hard.

[SOPS]

I really don't think EK could have handled today any worse. Very disrespectful to the fellas and girls that were led into the slaughterhouse.
Ladies and gents I am lost for words for what happened today and how you were treated.
My thoughts to all... but I’m hearing there is more to come tomorrow. I hope I’m wrong. Please take care of yourselves .

[krismiler]

600 is the number I’m hearing when it comes to Deck Crew”

Reported 400 from A380, 200 from B777 with a further 300 to come according to this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/09/emirates-cuts-thousands-jobs-planes-remain-grounded/

[Emma Royds]

I really don't think EK could have handled today any worse. Very disrespectful to the fellas and girls that were led into the slaughterhouse.
Ladies and gents I am lost for words for what happened today and how you were treated.

My sentiments exactly. Today will be remembered as a day when those departing were let down by a process devoid of any compassion or empathy and has created more unanswered questions than it provided answers to.

For those that are fortunate enough to remain, (for the moment at least!) the dearth of communications from management will only elevate levels of anxiety and stress for many. Whilst that alone is highly undesirable, the fact we are not in routine flying practice only makes a precarious situation even worse.

To those coming to terms with this bad news, I wish you every ounce of luck and success and it was a pleasure to work alongside you.

[GH66]

Has anyone been able to ascertain the criteria used for the redundancies ?

Not officially anyhow... The puppet managers have quoted that they do not know what criteria was used... A load of rubbish!!! They did what was the easiest for them and went after the vulnerable: Pilots who were genuinely off sick, pilots who were marked for "performance" issues (???) and those who had ANY warnings on their files no matter how petty and those not on the golfing squad of certain managers... They needed a number and those above were obviously the easy grab with a total disregard for what some top individuals who got the boot have contributed to this operation. No heart or soul or human discretion applied... I wish this company in the future will be treated the same way by their customers and remaining employees the way they have treated people who have been loyal to them!!!

[bianchi]

Hello everyone
As an airline pilot myself and currently also un-employed , I would like to just convey my deepest empathy with each and everyone that was retrench the last +- week at EK. It is a massive shock and disappointment when you are "dished" this misfortune. I wish you all the best and that you will be airborne asap.

[wizard1]

I served 20 years with EK. I was thrown out by my own doing. I have watched events today with dismay.My heart bleeds for those affected.Friends, former colleagues, Some who have given a lifetime of service. All who committed and worked to their best.
Tbe way you have been treated sickens me. The low cost that I went to did better than that.
It is a shame on the company and a shame on the country. A total disrespect. But then why am I supervised? Why are any of us surprised?
But a reckoning is coming....

[FlyingAce77]

Another ME3 airline QR laid off it’s Technical staff and they were humiliated , people got to know when they were coming to work, a dude standing with lists and checking their staff numbers”
Slave mentality doesn’t go away.

[ClassCbird]

Shame on you Emirates. Shame on you. Half salary for 6 months. Fine. That was to save jobs, right? And this pig's breakfast today? Random people sacked? Absolutely disgusting treatment to so many decent, loyal folk. And absolutely no communication from the management at all. (Yet they informed the media!)
Future Pilots BEWARE. This company cares not one iota about you. You may have a stellar record. IT MEANS NOTHING. You may gain seniority. IT MEANS NOTHING. Any good you do...IT MEANS NOTHING.
People worldwide...I CAN confirm...The redundancies are completely random. Appalling.
Emirates...may you reap what you sow.

[777boyindubai]

The midnight emails so people couldn't sleep. The heavy security presence escorting people who just had their lives turned upside down out the back door. We trust you with millions of dollars and hundreds of lives but we don't REALLY trust you. These two things alone show the Hearltess and indeed Soulless place that the 9th floor has become. EK did a great disservice to themselves today let alone to the peole who made the airline great and made them money. This is a day that EK will not recover from.

[ChocksOn]

What a disaster. So many loyal and experienced employees.
What a shame!
Karma is a great equaliser.
Just wait for the EXPO 2020 fallout.
Its going to be epic!
Arrogance and stupidity personified.

[The Outlaw]

Honestly what do you expect; he is of the same group always posting bs against the company. And now just trying to create more havoc with such an infectious post. As all those idiots who claim they are happier since they left but they still have to keep logging into this forum to trash anyone who says something favorable pf the company or that other group that bi..ch incessantly about how unhappy they are here and how miserable is the company but don't have the cojones to say the same things during the washups or even leave the company

Roca and Rex Havoc,

Are you beginning to see what this company is about and why the posts here predominantly slag the company? Countless hundreds of examples of their " caring nature and people skills can be read about here.

ClassCbird, 777boyindubai and chockson as well as the many "idiots" who left and actually found better jobs and a life can testify as to the actual treatment of EK employees with factual precision, one just has to work there long enough.

As always, where there is smoke there is fire. That has always been the case in the Middle East.

Then, there are those with their heads in the sand.

This is indeed a sad day. There will be between 1/4 to a 1/3 of the pilots removed from the company via this cold and heartless fashion.I feel for those with families and mortgages and those who chose to make EK a career and their home.

Best of luck to all.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Every airline in the world is laying off pilots but when Emirates does the same it becomes a moral outrage.

Explain.

I doubt you are capable of doing so.

[WB1900]

Every airline in the world is laying off pilots but when Emirates does the same it becomes a moral outrage.

Explain.

I doubt you are capable of doing so.

wrong not every airline - only those lcc with the mindset like ek
not even Ryan air did so far
all other majors didn’t because they revive state aids which compensates for the loss of income upto 80%
lufthanse received 9beuro for the group
at least EU is doing something to protect jobs

[WB1900]

Every airline in the world is laying off pilots but when Emirates does the same it becomes a moral outrage.

Explain.

I doubt you are capable of doing so.
and proudly our chairman announced 31 years of consecutive profit
and
no comm on the current situation as 1000 pilots and 10 times more cabin crew is losing their entire lives

[donpizmeov]

Roca and Rex Havoc,

Are you beginning to see what this company is about and why the posts here predominantly slag the company? Countless hundreds of examples of their " caring nature and people skills can be read about here.

ClassCbird, 777boyindubai and chockson as well as the many "idiots" who left and actually found better jobs and a life can testify as to the actual treatment of EK employees with factual precision, one just has to work there long enough.

As always, where there is smoke there is fire. That has always been the case in the Middle East.

Then, there are those with their heads in the sand.

This is indeed a sad day. There will be between 1/4 to a 1/3 of the pilots removed from the company via this cold and heartless fashion.I feel for those with families and mortgages and those who chose to make EK a career and their home.

Best of luck to all.
I think you need to pull your head out of your arse outlaw. Rex never said it wouldn't happen. He said stop posting unsubstantiated emotional BS. And so far he was right. The percentage of pilots let go is half of what was posted. Rex received his letter of redundancy today. He isn't bitching or wallowing in self pity, but rather concerned with how it will all play out for his work mates. Shame you can't do the same.

​​​​​​

[5star]

And to rub it in a bit more, it would seem that as ou local colleagues are on a different contract, they are all on full pay while expats can bleed for 6 months....
I am disgusted at what is going on....

[donpizmeov]

My sentiments exactly. Today will be remembered as a day when those departing were let down by a process devoid of any compassion or empathy and has created more unanswered questions than it provided answers to.

For those that are fortunate enough to remain, (for the moment at least!) the dearth of communications from management will only elevate levels of anxiety and stress for many. Whilst that alone is highly undesirable, the fact we are not in routine flying practice only makes a precarious situation even worse.

To those coming to terms with this bad news, I wish you every ounce of luck and success and it was a pleasure to work alongside you.

Emma, you have done a great job of describing exactly what has happened and what is important.

[Emma Royds]

Every airline in the world is laying off pilots but when Emirates does the same it becomes a moral outrage.

Explain.

I doubt you are capable of doing so.

I would say every EK pilot over time has accepted that job cuts were highly likely. There is no outrage that people have to go and it's sadly a byproduct of the times we are in. What leaves a sour taste in my mouth is how the process has been handled and the lack of communication to the entire pilot workforce. I am not expecting HR to open up and share all the finer details of this process but they could take a leaf out of EY's book and tell us that this round of cuts has finished, so those still employed can perhaps sleep a bit better.

[transport jock]

It’s been kept a lot quieter, but across the road at the LCC an untold number of FD and CC also got emails to come for tea and biscuits...

[donpizmeov]

Does EK still have SAA pilots on leave without pay?

[14 6]

I think you need to pull your head out of your arse outlaw. Rex never said it wouldn't happen. He said stop posting unsubstantiated emotional BS. And so far he was right. The percentage of pilots let go is half of what was posted. Rex received his letter of redundancy today. He isn't bitching or wallowing in self pity, but rather concerned with how it will all play out for his work mates. Shame you can't do the same.

​​​​​​

Don, please, you are now spreading unsubstantiated rumours yourself! How do you know the numbers and how do you know that today was the last of the layoffs?

My deepest sympathy goes out to everyone who lost their livelihood the last 7 days.

[donpizmeov]

Don, please, you are now spreading unsubstantiated rumours yourself! How do you know the numbers and how do you know that today was the last of the layoffs?

My deepest sympathy goes out to everyone who lost their livelihood the last 7 days.
I do understand that English isn't everyone"s first language. So for you 146, please refer to my reference of the term “so far” After that please refer to the term “pull your head out of your arse”
I do hope that helps.

[14 6]

Very weak attempt at trying to walk back “The percentage of pilots let go is half of what was posted”!

PS, keep your vulgarity to yourself, nobody is in the mood for that now.

[Whitemonk Returns]

This is terrible news but just to counter one point made previously not every airline is currently laying off staff, just alot of the big boys at the moment. I always dreamed of working for Emirates but when I had children I chose a different path. Over the years I been close to filling out the forms and every time I hear my father's voice in my head: 'You just can't trust them'. I'm glad I listened. Disgraceful behaviour.

[DCS99]

No real words of empathy.
No mention of giving millions of passengers a safe comfortable flight for decades.
No thanks for traversing the North Pole, dodging the monsoon and riding the ITCZ at all hours of day or night.

Final words ".. (don't worry)...there's 600 more to come next week" were given cheerfully to a colleague at the end of his meeting.
Source: Spouse WhatsApp group chat.

Let us all hope that was a tasteless attempt at humour and not fact.

[donpizmeov]

Where is that thumbs up thing when you need it.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

thank you DCS99 - you encapsulated it brilliantly

[felixthecat]

Absolutely disgraceful. Marched in between rows of staff singing “ Good morning/afternoon” Being told that they cant even tell you the reason that you have been picked to be culled. What was once a great airline has become a total disgrace. The majority of pilots appear to have a notable sickness ie an operation within the last 2-3 years. Many many years of good service and exemplary sim checks, line checks and safe flights are treated with this! No emails reference sickness or anything else yet you do this, disgusting.

Shame on you Emirates, is this seriously what you have become ? I am disgusted in you and the many ways I am no longer deamed to be of use to you....you are a disgrace! You give three months salary after three months of 50% even Qatar did better than this

Anyone in the future who looks to join this travesty then please think twice, no thrice and move on. It is a total disgrace. Seniority?? Please.......

[felixthecat]

Oh and lets not forget the 22hr + turn around duty days that the limitations now deam legal. No matter the time of day they start. A total disgrace.

[Tatin1]

Gents, just a quick reminder : although you are in the UAE, you still have Labour Law. If you organise yourselves, you can get class action and renumeration.

Also you can individually sue your manager if you find that he or she does not follow the UAE rules. Forget about the emotional side though.

Might be worthwhile.

[FlyingAce77]

Absolutely disgraceful. Marched in between rows of staff singing “ Good morning/afternoon” Being told that they cant even tell you the reason that you have been culled. What was once a great airline has become a total disgrace. The majority of pilots appear to have a notable sickness ie an operation within the last 2-3 years. Many many years of good service and exemplary sim checks, line checks and safe flights are treated with this! No emails reference sickness or anything else yet you do this, disgusting.

Shame on you Emirates, is this seriously what you have become ? I am disgusted in you and the many ways I am no longer deamed to be of use to you....you are a disgrace! You give three months salary after three months of 50% even Qatar did better than this

Anyone in the future who looks to join this travesty then please think twice, no thrice and move on. It is a total disgrace. Seniority?? Please.......
This is just disgusting and sad”
Qatar is following the same track unfortunately..

[krismiler]

From behind the Telegraph pay wall if anyone is having difficulty.

Emirates is making thousands of staff redundant as the world's biggest longhaul airline contends with the decimation of international air travel.

Pilots and cabin crew are being taken in to meeting rooms in groups and told that they have been made redundant, according to company insiders.

As many as 600 pilots and nearly 7,000 cabin crew could have lost their jobs by the end of Tuesday, sources told The Telegraph.

The state-owned airline has been grounded since March after the pandemic forced countries to close their borders and halt air travel.

Dubai, where Emirates is headquartered, has built a reputation as an international hub for transit passengers travelling between Asia, Europe and Africa.

Staff were told on Monday night that they must attend meetings on Tuesday.

Queues formed around the airline's training building as pilots and crew were informed, people present said.

About 400 pilots being let go are from the airline's Airbus A380 fleet, while a further 200 Boeing 777 pilots are being cut, it is understood. A further 300 pilots will be cut, one source added.

It was not clear if any could be rehired when demand for air travel recovers.

An Emirates spokesperson said: “Given the significant impact that the pandemic has had on our business, we simply cannot sustain excess resources and have to right-size our workforce in line with our reduced operations.

"After reviewing all scenarios and options, we deeply regret that we have to let some of our people go. This was a very difficult decision and not one that we took lightly."

A termination letter seen by Bloomberg stated that the worker would be paid their basic salary and fixed allowances until September 13.

Airlines have suffered a near-60pc reduction in capacity, hammering revenues and forcing companies to employ strict cost-cutting measures.

In late April British Airways said it would cut up to 12,000 jobs (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/04/28/british-airways-lays-12000-staff/) after plunging to its biggest quarterly loss.

[GoreTex]

Glad I left this lot 4 years ago, firing people out of seniority, how low can you go

[new tomcat]

Glad I left this lot 4 years ago, firing people out of seniority, how low can you go

Why would EK do anything with that is based on logic? They don't honour the senority list when hiring DECs why should they honour it now?

[WB1900]

I am pretty sure all of them who survive these days you won’t see the 100% ever again
as there have made loads of pilots being made redundant disregarding all means seniority and aperently double paying the no punishment culture
it seems to be obvious that characters like AAR abusing the covid situation to make a big and for employees costly contract clean up
as per the company most of the airplanes should fly latest in September which is sustainable with the current numbers of redundancies
i very convinced in saying that they will hire soon again but with a completely different package more following the EY model where there is no provident fund topped with minimum medical (like cabin crew) plus the live out allowance will be cut to your current payments until your mortgage is paid of- no more gain from the allowance outside of its need.
eventually they will also cut school allowance and as for the remaining contract you will get an option for a new contract and I you don’t like it leave

the deterioration of the contracts value was already obvious over the past years and now rather having an open word with the employees to over come the crises together they take the advantage of cleaning up their mess of incompetence in leadership while letting the workforce, which has provided them with the wealth they generated
a disgrace and a shameful behavior of a company and country which hypocriticaly blasting 24/7 into world how much better they are how important the well being of Dubai’s residents is and how much they take care of those who work in this country
in most of the civilized world aids and contributions by the state have been used to secure and rescue jobs - not so in Dubai, here all the money which runs as multi 100b AED cheque is abuse to fill the pockets of those in charge
and all together the poorest and most disgraceful step off the leaders in this company the chairman STC and AAR not having the integrity to speak openly speak about what’s going on - rather than allowing the middle fearing management to secure their positions by punishing a excellent hard working engaged and encouraged work force

[WB1900]

Glad I left this lot 4 years ago, firing people out of seniority, how low can you go
many rumors say that sick days and perfmance is the first to go
well that does not seem to be entirely correct as the man with the biggest performance issues got promoted upwards and I am very sure you not gonna see him on those meetings to fire himself

[krismiler]

Unfortunately, with the number of pilots employed and the number being let go, the human touch probably wasn't possible. Reviewing the files of around 4000 flight crew, even if only 10 minutes was spent on each one would take around 660 hours or 16 weeks at 8 hours per day. Obviously this would be reduced if more people were involved, but you would want to have relatively senior people making the assesssments.

Having the IT department write up a short program to trawl through the records and fish up specific markers such as warning letters or excessive sick leave was likely to have been the quickest option.

Once a company gets above a certain size, putting faces to names becomes impossible and you are just a number. In a much smaller company, the Chief Pilot might know each of his crew personally and have his own chop list based on individual performance and merits.

[WB1900]

How many pilots have been sacked by arrogant trainers over bs where the training department had not give the slightest support nor fleet wanted to reveal the truth - all these people are marked with performance issues because nobody is willing to spent the time to go throu those reports and support or at least making up a correct and on facts based deceision as it is asked of every single pilot every day
and those people are now conveniently enough are marked for redundancy

„we have made that deceision very carefully“
this had been said to the press not to employees to the media
so you are saying a computer Programm is a careful decision- well to write proper program on that scale at least 2 weeks including a thorough testing and reviewing the output to its correctness
despite the fact how long IT needs to change a failing software (EPT, portal login) to toward reasonable working

which leads to 2 conclusions
fast shooting with no asking
or
it had been prepared for weeks now and there was never an intention of protecting jobs which leads to only one final conclusion that all of that is intended to invent a massive scale down in enumeration to make that leadership proud to announce 32nd year of profits - no matter of how many lives go broke know
well done

i really you are safe in your job but defending a screwed up system like the EK one can very easy bit you one day and I think you will not write a such defending comment than when it hits yourself

stay safe and all the best to you

[krismiler]

If a program was used it could have been relatively simple, such as total number of sick days or it could have been more advanced and looked for specific patterns such as one or two days per month which could suggest misuse but exclude a single block which would imply a genuine illness. Only the upper levels know the exact markers used and the importance given to them.

A company the size of Emirates would have contingency plans drawn up to cater for various scenarios such as natural disasters, civil unrest etc, but I doubt many operators were prepared for a downturn on this scale or a sudden reduction in crew numbers which might approach 20%.

[aviation_enthus]

Unfortunately, with the number of pilots employed and the number being let go, the human touch probably wasn't possible. Reviewing the files of around 4000 flight crew, even if only 10 minutes was spent on each one would take around 660 hours or 16 weeks at 8 hours per day. Obviously this would be reduced if more people were involved, but you would want to have relatively senior people making the assesssments.

Having the IT department write up a short program to trawl through the records and fish up specific markers such as warning letters or excessive sick leave was likely to have been the quickest option.

Once a company gets above a certain size, putting faces to names becomes impossible and you are just a number. In a much smaller company, the Chief Pilot might know each of his crew personally and have his own chop list based on individual performance and merits.

You’re making the assumption that this was only decided a couple of days ago.

EK has been effectively grounded since the end of March. It’s been 10 weeks since then. So having a team of senior people working on a list would certainly have been possible. Given the company has already been reviewing sick leave and training performance for various reasons already, half the task was probably already done. Blind Freddie could see this coming on the horizon and any company with half a brain would have been running planning exercises on various scenarios since this all went downhill.

I’m not going to sit here and defend the way it’s been handled. However we all knew what we signed up for when we got here. I for one was under no illusion that seniority would protect you, the local labour laws are NOT what you have back in most western countries.

We came here to have fun, travel and make some silver. The company in return gets my service for a couple of years. Beyond that, nothing. I think that’s a fair transaction and that appears to be all EK want from us. Besides, show me an expat airline anywhere on the planet that treats its expats the same as locals.

Good luck to all those affected. It’s not over yet, all we have to hold on to is our health and family. After all that’s all that really matters.

[flyguy332]

And to rub it in a bit more, it would seem that as ou local colleagues are on a different contract, they are all on full pay while expats can bleed for 6 months....
I am disgusted at what is going on....
That is not true

[White Knight]

Thread is for and about EK.... Let’s keep it that way!

[felixthecat]

Unfortunately, with the number of pilots employed and the number being let go, the human touch probably wasn't possible. Reviewing the files of around 4000 flight crew, even if only 10 minutes was spent on each one would take around 660 hours or 16 weeks at 8 hours per day. Obviously this would be reduced if more people were involved, but you would want to have relatively senior people making the assesssments.

Having the IT department write up a short program to trawl through the records and fish up specific markers such as warning letters or excessive sick leave was likely to have been the quickest option.

Once a company gets above a certain size, putting faces to names becomes impossible and you are just a number. In a much smaller company, the Chief Pilot might know each of his crew personally and have his own chop list based on individual performance and merits.

If guys and gals with anywhere from 10-20 years given in service of the company, cant be given 10 minutes by management to properly review their carriers and performance prior to making life changing decisions to the future of their whole lives, it is disgusting.

[fatbus]

Totally agree!

[givemewings]

Gents, just a quick reminder : although you are in the UAE, you still have Labour Law. If you organise yourselves, you can get class action and renumeration.

Also you can individually sue your manager if you find that he or she does not follow the UAE rules. Forget about the emotional side though.

Might be worthwhile.

You're forgetting they love to invoke the "but we're in a Free Zone" clause whenever it suits aka the "Labour Law Doesn't Apply" cop out..

Sad it's come to this. At the time being basically forced to quit because it became untenable seemed a waste. Now it's a blessing in disguise from what I read here.

Good luck to those still over there

[felixthecat]

Not so long ago I was being shown my parametric performance and attendance graphs, and was told they were very good. Now Halas.......

[5star]

It is a very sad state of affairs and those who lost their job will certainly go through very tough times. i think most of us knew this was coming but none of us expected this punch below the belt. No respect for seniority and mainly based on sickness or someone not liking your face... or by using some sort of insourced lowball IT algoritm....It is beyond belief and lacks any form of human touch binning people who have 15 years plus of impeccable service and are mostly fully settled in the ME.
The same people that are in control of this cutting exercise are the ones who signed us up on the 140plus 380
disaster and last year also hanged us on a 50 percent fuel hedging deal well into deep 2022 at an oil price of $55. (read the EK 2020 financial report, its all there in black and white)...I guess someone has to pay now for these mistakes...
For those who are remaining...I think it is wise to start working on plan B.
Good luck to all.

[exekcabincrew]

Several CC just got an email saying their meeting is cancelled. Everyone knows what the "meeting" is about and now they just cancelled it without explaining what is happening, if it will be rescheduled or if the cc who received the email were spared. This reminds one of those fake executions to suppress the will of prisoners.

The way EK is handling this is beyond shameful.

As a little side-bitching, can someone explain me how STC still has the "S"?.. from Quora, how to be nominated for a Sir title: "Has your nominee:

made a difference to their community or field of work

brought distinction to British life and enhanced its reputation

exemplified the best sustained and selfless voluntary service

demonstrated innovation and entrepreneurship

carried the respect of their peers

changed things, with an emphasis on achievement

improved the lot of those less able to help themselves

displayed moral courage and vision in making and delivering tough choices"

Erm... Which one of the above did this individual do/has not undone yet with this way of treating people under this person's responsibility?

What a disgrace.

[fatbus]

Meeting were temporarily cnxd. I'm not going into details as I'm sure everyone hear soon enough. EK should be held accountable for the way this was handled . Managers at all level are useless.
standby for another classic Dubai cover up / not my fault excuse.

[Calmcavok]

If the rumour I’ve just heard is true, then the meetings being cancelled is the least they can do. The way this has been handled is totally unfair, un-transparent and leaves every single employee stressed to an almighty level about their future, with only silence from the top. All whilst many are still operating.

[exekcabincrew]

If this is confirmed, criminal charges should be presented against the responsible ones for the process. :mad: sickening.

[pjszms]

Rumour has it that one Pilot has attempted suicide and two cabin crew have committed suicide that is why meetings have been cancelled

[EchoKilla]

where do you get this sort of obnoxious BS?? No time for this sort of jibberish :yuk:

[EchoKilla]

sigh tough anxious days.... :(

Meeting were temporarily cnxd. I'm not going into details as I'm sure everyone hear soon enough. EK should be held accountable for the way this was handled . Managers at all level are useless.
standby for another classic Dubai cover up / not my fault excuse.

[Neektu]

Gents, just a quick reminder : although you are in the UAE, you still have Labour Law. If you organise yourselves, you can get class action and renumeration.

Also you can individually sue your manager if you find that he or she does not follow the UAE rules. Forget about the emotional side though.

Might be worthwhile.
It seems you don’t know the place

[v1r8]

Absolutely in shock and disgusted how EK management has no regard for human life and dignity. We get that you may have to downsize, but out of seniority and signaling that every little thing can and will be used against co-workers at some point is absolutely disgusting.

My heart goes out to all my cockpit and cabin colleagues and your families.

Remember. There is a crack in everything, that is how the light gets in.

[stevieboy330]

I for one will NEVER travel on Emirates again or visit the Middle East I'll fly right past the whole place. The way Crew have been betrayed & treated is utterly inexcusable.
I hope that whole city gets gobbled up by the desert & all those greedy Arab Nationals who have destroyed all those peoples lives end up with nothing. It is gut wrenching to think of all those good people, partners and children being spat on and chucked out like dirty garbage, just shameful. Emirates management YOU ARE THE WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. F YOU !
You plundered the education skills, training and very specialised expertise of all those expats so that you could get rich and then dumped them when times got a little tough, disgraceful !!!!
Management - I hope you all die tonight for the way you have handled this.

[fliion]

Emirates pilots.
Never forget who or what we are, and were.
Our common bond and spirit;
camaraderie and professionalism;
commitment to safety;
acceptance of diversity
For the vast majority of us - we honored our profession.
Through the skies on those dark weary nights - we laughed and joked, scowled and debated.
We shared wine and flavor across the globe.
Above all we cared for those who we were entrusted with - our passengers.
And as the years of service turned to decades, we hoped:
To quote Auliq:
“Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.”
Twas not to be.

[fatbus]

I second that ! Too many good friends have just had their lives ruined !

[FatPilot]

Emirates pilots.
Never forget who or what we are, and were.
Our common bond and spirit;
camaraderie and professionalism;
commitment to safety;
acceptance of diversity
For the vast majority of us - we honored our profession.
Through the skies on those dark weary nights - we laughed and joked, scowled and debated.
We shared wine and flavor across the globe.
Above all we cared for those who we were entrusted with - our passengers.
And as the years of service turned to decades, we hoped:
To quote Auliq:
“Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.”
Twas not to be.Sorry but camaraderie went out with the demise of the TBF and CBC, just as planned. "Who or what we are"? A bunch of pilots who showed up for a quicker command and better money.

Prejudiced against each other because of nothing more than nationality (have a look back through some of your own posts). You know what I mean. I'd characterise today's group as disparate, self-serving, self-entitled.
Attitude.

There was no respect for seniority by fellow pilots, why should the company respect it. Professionalism – by whose standard? The drop in professionalism over the last two decades matches the fever with which they shook trees in less and less desirable environments and brought back the proceeds to fill the ranks.

Nothing wrong with positive sentiment but let’s keep it real, there’s enough re-writing of history going on in the world right now. Good luck.

[ENJJPT38]

So true.

I had a different user name but can't seem to get on so I had to create a new "call sign". I have been here 12 plus years. The overall adventure has been a wild experience and we have learned an awful lot. My family has gotten to experience things they never would have, had we not come to Dubai. So, it ends in a little disappointment for us, but we are older and ready to go home and fortunately have a fairly stable home to return to. We feel terrible for the young families that will be uprooted with no good employment prospects and may be going back to a country that is not in good condition.

I would be remiss not to thank a few people who made life fun and interesting along the way.

-a couple FDM's that had the big picture
-many, many CC and Pursers who worked so very hard 24/7 and always provided excellent service up front
-maintenance...I don't know how you do it in the heat 24/7. I always found the engineering staff competent, responsive and always "there" at the push of a button
-ramp workers...like maintenance I don't see how you do the job 24/7 in the heat for too many hours a week at so little pay...you are admirable
-medical staff at EK...often maligned but I found the staff to be supportive and available. Until last year I didn't interact with them much, but had a big issue that eventually got cleared and I appreciate the help they provided. My wife has had several medical issues and those have been sorted and we are appreciative for the benefits provided and found the health care and facilities throughout Dubai to be excellent.
- I found the current and former 777 Chief Pilots to be quite supportive given their job description. CP can never win. Senior Management above him gives pressure and he can never make all the line guys and girls happy..lose lose, some just below CP ..TBD, but trying to be positive.
-Training again much maligned, but things have gotten a whole lot better over the past 12 or 13 years...believe it or not, I have learned much from the experience
- 777 Fleet PP and FJ... thanks

Lastly..fellow Aviators. What I learned flying here for over a decade is beyond anything I could have ever read about or studied in books. Talking to you about your varied countries and life at home was an education that could not ever be duplicated, in any way, without coming to Dubai. Thanks for getting me through my Sim training, line training, line checks, all night turn arounds, PURPA crossings at 0400 and 16 hour flights over the North Pole. You kept me on the straight and narrow and I greatly appreciate that guidance. As a group you will forever be remembered and as I age, I will only remember the good times and that is how it should be.

Again, we are terribly heartbroken over what has happened to so many young families here, not just in the pilot community but all throughout the EK group. We have learned a great lesson here watching what others have to endure to support their families and we count ourselves to be very fortunate.

For those staying in Dubai, good luck. Times will be trying in the future but Dubai always seems to bounce back. Stay positive, enjoy the journey, take care of your buddies and fly safe.

Toga!

[BOEMBUS]

Couldn't have put it any better. These tragic decisions and follow up terminations is across the board worldwide. EK isn't immune, although people working there think and thought they were. One word, arrogance.
​​​​​​Don't get me wrong or start screaming and shouting, this was coming from way back in March, but the EK uniform, as you found out, isn't made of Teflon. Why is it now a shock??

[WB1900]

well there had been quite a few bundles of dirhams being injected by the government to protect the business and jobs according to the local news papers a la Khaleejs and gulf news
and apparently there was nothing left for the front end workforce
but what do I care I am just one out of a tousend

[Life Vest]

It stuck in my mind at the time because I couldn’t quite believe it when the President of Emirates (STC) said that the EK brand was large enough now to withstand two hull losses (This was before the 521 crash).

With little communication from senior management and no communication from “The EK Executive Team” to Cabin Crew or Pilots, apart from all the interviews given to the media, I wonder how many suicides they can think they can withstand before it affects the brand.

My thoughts go out to all my colleagues and their family's, struggling through this crisis.

[firegrass]

ENJJPT38

Thank you.

From all of us.

[SuckSqueezeBangBlo]

Rumour has it that one Pilot has attempted suicide and two cabin crew have committed suicide that is why meetings have been cancelled

Apparently it is fake news....

[LivingINtheDream]

Thank you.

From all of us.

nicely put 😂

[givemewings]

I wonder how many suicides they can think they can withstand before it affects the brand Well, they didn't appear to give to sh!ts when images of a dead CC were splashed all over the world, why would they care about the ones that are unseen? Harsh but it's indisputable. They still never publicly acknowledged her by name nor gave a transparent investigation or even outcome as to what really happened.

The way Crew have been betrayed & treated is utterly inexcusable. Wait, you mean you thought in the end the crew would be seen any differently than the poor labourers who are tossed aside at the drop of a hat? As if. Just numbers to them, each and every one of us was and is just a number.... sad.

I'll toss another potential criteria into the ring: 'too many' ASRs/being too 'vocal' about certain things... I have no doubt if I were still there I'd have been given the axe simply for the fact I called them out several times on safety issues that were being ignored/deleted from the SMS and or not forwarded on from submitting them as the GCAA said they had 'never had any reports... so if your record was otherwise good and you're wondering why... think about it.

bet anyone who ever pissed off a pax or staff traveller from the office was also at risk of the letter too....

meanwhile, those who are probably most deserving of ceasing employment will remain, to further uselessly decorate the halls of the 3rd floor and above.

Any word as to how the 'Department of No' fared? Guess they will be very busy, need all the staff I suppose :yuk:

[GoreTex]

It was all over the internet 15 years ago that EK is a s..t airline and that they don't care about their staff and that everyone will get screwed sooner or later, don't shoot the messenger

[exekcabincrew]

I've posted this video some time ago and I post it again. It's about leadership and I think it explain the situation in EK perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmyZMtPVodo

[felixthecat]

Awesome, if only Emirates had worked this way, even now the remaining cabin crew and pilots would stand by you and strive to protect their ‘family’. Now its everyone for themselves covering their own backs, and who can blame them. A rudderless ship.

The management will see this as a master stroke, as it is you now have workers afraid to put a foot out of place in fear. Who will operate outside limits of flight times, fly sick, have little experience in comparison with the experience you thew away. The experience to pilot the silent ships safely through the darkest monsoon nights, across the most distant points on earth, whilst passengers slept safely and trusted their expertise. Your sickness rates may well go down but your incident rates will increase, your image as a world class carrier will be lost. The public will look to the other carriers where they feel safe especially for the money they pay.

[krismiler]

Links to the letter received by those affected.

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/06/10/exclusive-read-the-letter-emirates-gave-employees-informing-them-they-would-be-made-redundant/

[FlyingCroc]

Wow, what a letter, no thank you for your sevices, not even minimal courtesy. Shameful.

[mmorel]

I'm not sure what do you expect from emirate ?

even in United states big company like apple blackberry ericsson will fire people without even let them have a chance to pack their bags from their office. just accept the facts .everyone should have save money for an year as a backup .

[jetstreem]

So is it over, or will the bloodshed continue next week? I think that’s the question on everyone’s mind. Those who remain wont sleep easy (let along operate at peak performance) until they have some certainty.

[euroxx]

of course it’s not over. The target is 1000 cockpit and 7000 cabin crew. They haven’t even completed 15% of the meetings yet. They’re just figuring out a different way of delivering the news. Reports on German sites coming in that 380 won’t be flying at all until March 2021. Slot coordination for FRA/MUC/DUS/HAM is already updated and showing exclusive ops with 777 until 26th October

[FatPilot]

Remember when they used to hold meetings and say "You're lucky to have a job here!" Well I guess they can say that now and really mean it.

being too 'vocal' about certain things... I have no doubt if I were still there I'd have been given the axeI have no doubt either.

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

Wow, what a letter, no thank you for your sevices, not even minimal courtesy. Shameful.
I am not defending the tone of the letter, but if you had taken the time to read it all, you would have seen it ended with: "May I take this opportunity to thank you for your service to the Company and wish you well for your future."

[givemewings]

I have no doubt either.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you're not being facetious, since it's hard to get tone from text.

However, had I been chopped because I refused to let them ignore blatant safety violations, I'd consider it a job well done and I'd do it again. Many areas of concern that just got glossed over or swept under the tapestry rug... they just never got it, even after 521.

Not everyone had the nerve to stand up to them on that issue and many still don't which is why I won't be flying EK metal anytime in the near future once we can travel again. Just not worth the risk and even less so now with the stress everyone will be under.

Hopefully they start handling the firings with more care and respect.. but I won't hold my breath

[Cantbebothered]

Every airline in the world is laying off pilots but when Emirates does the same it becomes a moral outrage.

Explain.

I doubt you are capable of doing so.

True however anger and denial are the first two stages of grief. Losing your job is like losing someone (according to psychologists). The anger and outrage will die down eventually.
Perhaps if they just sent out letters+emails to all the staff who are laid off it would of been better? I dont know.... There is no nice way of telling thousands of people their service is no longer needed due to the economic climate and pandemic.

[ClassCbird]

Some posters appear to be missing the reason why EK employees are upset and angry. Yes, many airlines are laying off crews. And we knew EK would likely be no different. However, it is the way EK have gone about this that has angered so many people.

No warning for starters. People simply receiving Emails to go in for 'meetings' the very next day.
Then no consideration was given to alternative cost-saving measures such as unpaid leave or furloughs.
No consideration given for rank, position or seniority (people really do appear to have been selected randomly).
No apparent consideration for performance (people with commendations, no sick records and no disciplinaries have been fired).
And to top it all off...STILL no word from ANY of the management regarding the redundancies.


Hmmm...Should someone do a welfare check on the Management? They haven't been seen or heard from for over a week now....

[fatbus]

Typical spineless EK management handling of this . Reminds me of the first gulf war and the cowards! ( no names mentioned!)

[donpizmeov]

Some posters appear to be missing the reason why EK employees are upset and angry. Yes, many airlines are laying off crews. And we knew EK would likely be no different. However, it is the way EK have gone about this that has angered so many people.

No warning for starters. People simply receiving Emails to go in for 'meetings' the very next day.
Then no consideration was given to alternative cost-saving measures such as unpaid leave or furloughs.
No consideration given for rank, position or seniority (people really do appear to have been selected randomly).
No apparent consideration for performance (people with commendations, no sick records and no disciplinaries have been fired).
And to top it all off...STILL no word from ANY of the management regarding the redundancies.


Hmmm...Should someone do a welfare check on the Management? They haven't been seen or heard from for over a week now....

Are people on leave without pay from another airline still employed while full timers were sacked?

Imagine how the out come could have different if management communicated with and worked with the workforce to find a solution.
Opportunity missed.

[cloudsurfng]

Deleted...

[Emma Royds]

I heard that the process of who would be selected for redundancy was outsourced to a third-party organisation. Should this be true, then whoever in HR that signed off this deal should be hung drawn and quartered. Whilst the vast majority of employees are on 50% pay, I find it incredulous that money was spent on a task that I am sure this could have been carried out in house.

I find this next rumour hard to believe after I heard it but does anyone know if the DCP-B was selected as well?

[ExBa]

I heard that the process of who would be selected for redundancy was outsourced to a third-party organisation. Should this be true, then whoever in HR that signed off this deal should be hung drawn and quartered. Whilst the vast majority of employees are on 50% pay, I find it incredulous that money was spent on a task that I am sure this could have been carried out in house.

I find this next rumour hard to believe after I heard it but does anyone know if the DCP-B was selected as well?
Personally, I would have thought, using a third party to access required statistics and information would be justified, then the company or persons would not be accused of fiddling data?

[Popgun]

I feel for any crew member going through this very tough time. I have been through it as an expat in a previous life and wish you all the best as you pick up the pieces and try to rebuild your life.

I am stunned, however, by the number of posters who actually seem breathtakingly shocked by the way EK employees are being terminated without care, compassion, dignity or humanity.

AYFKM??

When you move to a country that does not respect human rights, democracy and many other freedoms that you likely took for granted in your country of origin, for a few pieces of silver and rapid career progression, you perhaps took a gamble on the upside without enough analysis of the risks.

For those of you getting towards retirement age, I hope you have been financially prudent. For those much younger, I hope you will see in time that there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. For all, I hope you will see the experience as one to learn from and that there really isn’t anything that important in life other than your health (physical and mental) and spending time with the people you love.

Sincerely best wishes,

PG

[screwtop]

21 years service and only a phone call to say you are not needed..