EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

[nolimitholdem]

I thought it was an SMS? 🤔

[fatbus]

Who does EKs audit? They have access to way more than just the money .

Glofish, good pick up !

[glofish]

fatbus
A very freudian misspelling ......

[PanAmFalcon]

21 years service and only a phone call to say you are not needed..
I know it’s heart breaking but that does not mean you are a bad employee. There will be better times. Much better ones. It’s okay to grieve over it and there will be better times. There always have been for everyone

[NOFLY7773]

So I was one of the people to be given the email no problems and 4 years service. I'm happy to be leaving unlike a lot of people. They essentially have anyone under bond trapped as if you resign you pay them the balance and anything else they deem you owe. You get no access to your provident and essentially leave with next to nothing. The 50% salary cut is more like 65% for those not flying at all and not much better for those that are. I spent 3 months trapped in my house between flights with no access to the outside world, I at least had my family unlike some of my colleagues that were completely alone with their mental state continually reducing and once towards their lowest point they were made redundant with no regards to peoples mental health at all. It is UAE law that any company reducing salary is to offer voluntary redundancy or we are to accept the change via a new contract, we were just given an email. At least Q will pay it back, Ek have given the bare minimum and di it in such a poor distasteful fashion. Why didn't they offer voluntary redundancy to at least save some off the people that want to remain, I know many that would have accepted this. Can't wait to pack up and go back to civilisation.

[krismiler]

https://youtu.be/2c7837ed47w

[Jet II]

Ek is not following UAE law,


EK has never followed UAE Company Law because as a Government entity it is not covered by UAE Company Law. For example - company Law states that when temperatures reach 50c all outside work must stop - obviously it would not be acceptable to cease all operations at DXB so by being a semi-official body EK/DNATA are not covered and normal operations can continue.

[hamil]

https://youtu.be/2c7837ed47w

Some sources (The Telegraph, for instance) say 7,000 CC were sacked but on that video it says 700. Actually, how many CC colleagues were affected?

Thanks.

[krismiler]

The video appears to have been made just prior to the latest round of terminations as at the 14 minute mark it talks of a rumour of 600 pilots being called in. However it illustrates the criteria used to select crews, how the crews were dealt with and the issues facing those remaining in Dubai. Some reports say 700 cabin crew but I think this is a typo as an A380 would have about 20 cabin crew and a B777 would have about 15 so ratio wise 7000 cabin crew to 600 pilots seems about right.

[desert witch]

Can someone elighten me as to why Unpaid leave is such a implausible option at EK? I would happily go for a year, Zero pay, and if there is enough of us, save a number of redundancies.
I know everyone is looking after themselves these days, but if there was any way to show (Bryan?) that we are a good number, might be possible to pass it on to whoever can actually push it through?

[Murrenfan]

Simply because they now have the option to rehire those desperate to come back with a different contract.

[PilotLZ]

Not an isolated case unfortunately. Many airlines do the "fire-and-rehire" thing with the exact idea NOT to preserve the existing contract and its associated T&Cs.

[Python27]

Concept that doesn't applies in the sandpit. Your T&C can/will be changed at company's(that belongs to the state) discretion without any further explanation or negotiation. You can loose your time in the court trying to argue against.

Signing T&C in Knoteetingham for the one is just a formality. For the company is a liability against you.

​​​​​

[aviation_enthus]

Can someone elighten me as to why Unpaid leave is such a implausible option at EK? I would happily go for a year, Zero pay, and if there is enough of us, save a number of redundancies.
I know everyone is looking after themselves these days, but if there was any way to show (Bryan?) that we are a good number, might be possible to pass it on to whoever can actually push it through?

Because it’s an expat airline. Please enlighten me of any other predominantly expat airlines that offer unpaid leave?

Also worth remembering that ‘unpaid leave’ still had various allowances paid by the company. So in reality EK are not getting to hold on to staff for free.

They just don’t need the same number of staff. When they do I’m sure they’ll rehire and have plenty of applicants to choose from.

[GH66]

Not an isolated case unfortunately. Many airlines do the "fire-and-rehire" thing with the exact idea NOT to preserve the existing contract and its associated T&Cs.

Many/Most airlines are not expat airlines who in good times arrange their management style to essentially make their employees economic hostages and on a whim toss some of their best people out with little or NO practical options. EK never attempted to offer anyone a win win offer although it never does. EK has always know the cost of absolutely everything but never the value of anything! You combine that with a bunch of middle managers who are scared of their own shadows and some who will sell their own..... to add a management tittle to their name and the result is what you are seeing!

[what-to-do]

@ aviation_enthus - Flydubai for one

[BOEMBUS]

medium Com suren.ratwatte the-end-of-the-mirage-in-the-gulf

[DuneMentat]

One thing that has gone mostly unnoticed is the layoffs happening in the office - all expats. This now means even more, in any position of causing harm, is a UAE national of which quite a few want expats gone. This is IMHO accelerating EK becoming the new Gulf Air.

[Python27]

One thing that has gone mostly unnoticed is the layoffs happening in the office - all expats. This now means even more, in any position of causing harm, is a UAE national of which quite a few want expats gone. This is IMHO accelerating EK becoming the new Gulf Air.

Same happened in the goat I've heard. Soon all the companies around will have the same low standards of saudia and gf...

[fly1981]

Because it’s an expat airline. Please enlighten me of any other predominantly expat airlines that offer unpaid leave?

Also worth remembering that ‘unpaid leave’ still had various allowances paid by the company. So in reality EK are not getting to hold on to staff for free.

They just don’t need the same number of staff. When they do I’m sure they’ll rehire and have plenty of applicants to choose from.

most of the Far East expat orientated airlines have offered unpaid leave schemes...

[alatriste]

Please name one.
Expats in the Far East are contract pilots. Companies do not need to fire them because they are not their employees. They just roster LWOP and inform you broker that they will call you back when they need you. No benefits, no end of service bonus, no compensation. NOTHING. Disposable item.
If you can consider this as "Unpaid leave" then most of the companies provide it.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

My Hainan mate said Hainan is paying him 25k US a year at the moment sort of like a retention pay.

[fly1981]

Please name one.
Expats in the Far East are contract pilots. Companies do not need to fire them because they are not their employees. They just roster LWOP and inform you broker that they will call you back when they need you. No benefits, no end of service bonus, no compensation. NOTHING. Disposable item.
If you can consider this as "Unpaid leave" then most of the companies provide it.

what a load of rubbish... if you were stupid enough to join through a broker, that’s your own fault. Cathay, Asiana, air japan...the list goes on.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

fly1981-
if you were stupid enough to join through a broker, that’s your own fault

soooo how do you get a gig with those outfits such as Korean, China Southern etc when they only use brokers for expats? What is your secret smart man?

[bringbackthe80s]

what a load of rubbish... if you were stupid enough to join through a broker, that’s your own fault. Cathay, Asiana, air japan...the list goes on.

Unbelievable this guy

[fly1981]

fly1981-


soooo how do you get a gig with those outfits such as Korean, China Southern etc when they only use brokers for expats? What is your secret smart man?

why Korean or China southern? Sure, they hire through an agency, because their turn over is huge. There are options that do not necessarily require you to go through agencies. Obviously the current situation is putting a damper on recruitment... but things will happen soon. China is cooking domestic traffic wise, many airlines have recalled crew that were put on unpaid leave. It won’t be long before regional traffic is opened up...

https://www.airhongkong.com.hk/public/getitem.php?id=c16ebc65-8c9a-4be5-9373-266d0dc6fa20. Conducting interviews as we speak.

https://www.evaair.com/en-us/about-eva-air/careers/job-openings/pilots/pilot.html. Note the ‘or’ you can apply directly or through an agency. Good deal if you commute to Europe/USA.

https://careers.cathaypacific.com/our-teams/pilots. Up until 2-3 months ago, there were still defo’s finishing up training, bearing in mind hk has been affected by Covid story since China found out about it, for obvious reasons.

https://pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot-Job-Posting-Pilot-Opening-Pilot-Job/12945/Asia/Rated-Captains/Airbus-A350/Starlux-Airlines---Taiwan
They looking for captains and fo’s...have no doubt 380 experience will count.

these were the results of a 5 min search. Many airlines in this part of the world will hire through an agency initially, then once the 3 year contract is up, if they like you, you will be employed directly.

[Veruka Salt]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Cathay flight crew aren’t employed via agencies, nor are they on fixed term contracts.

[fly1981]

where did I say cx crew were employed through agencies? Those are airlines that don’t employ necessarily though agencies.

[Emma Royds]

It's irrelevant if you are directly employed or are a contractor in an airline in Asia where the minority of the workforce are ex-pats, as the ex-pat will always be the first to suffer in the tough times. I would rather be with a contract agency, as at least there is an intermediary that you can liaise with. If you were employed directly, I doubt any local pilot union would be willing to make much effort to look after ex-pats who are on more generous terms and conditions, at the expense of their own peers.

[alatriste]

Dear FLY1981
We strongly disagree but , because we don´t play in the same league, I don´t want to start an argument.
It is funny to discover how a guy that joined HKA as FO 3 years ago now is giving us lessons. Boy, I got my ATPL 20 years before you and joined the Airline business 24 years ahead of you.
As a contract pilot I am not surprised how companies are treating expat pilots, I was not moaning.
For your information Asiana pilots were employed by brokers and all of them (except some 747 skippers) were fired the 4th of June.
Being a rookie you should think twice and then post, control your temper and finally try not to insult others.
All the best in your incipient career.

[fly1981]

It's irrelevant if you are directly employed or are a contractor in an airline in Asia where the minority of the workforce are ex-pats, as the ex-pat will always be the first to suffer in the tough times. I would rather be with a contract agency, as at least there is an intermediary that you can liaise with. If you were employed directly, I doubt any local pilot union would be willing to make much effort to look after ex-pats who are on more generous terms and conditions, at the expense of their own peers.

partially agree with you, however, ‘local pilot unions’ don’t really exist, although the various associations like to think of themselves as unions, they have absolutely no pull. Fact of the matter is Asia lacks ‘local’ experience, expats will be required in Asian/ far eastern airlines for years to come. If you would rather work for an agency, so be it, but don’t complain when your contract is simply cancelled because you are no longer required.

we are getting away from the original question, unpaid leave HAS been offered in many far eastern airlines, and some have introduced salary adjustments, but none have handled their crew the way emirates has the past two weeks...

[Veruka Salt]

where did I say cx crew were employed through agencies? Those are airlines that don’t employ necessarily though agencies.

In your post #276.

With respect to unpaid leave, however, you are correct.

[givemewings]

Apparently more CC in "meetings" today, email went out last night. Number unknown as yet

[Mach_Krit]

Are pilots still getting meeting requests?

[givemewings]

They're axing long term crew with clean records and juniors seem to be less targeted... have heard from three friends still in EK, all over a certain time in their grade, all with "good" records, minimal SK so the only motivator would seem to be cost or spite... or both

Seems there might be merit to the "reduce costs for later & can the expensive PUR/CSV/FG1/GR1" theory.. . :hmm:

[DuneMentat]

Lots of office staff have been given the letter today. Heard around 40% of finance and another 750 in IT (on top of the ones from last week). Also whole departments are being let go.

[felixthecat]

And where is the management leadership in all of this? Conspicuous in their absence !!!

[DuneMentat]

To be fair what do you expect them to say? would you even trust them if they said "done"?

[exekcabincrew]

The "leadership" in EK is taking credit for success and hiding when it comes to taking responsibility for failure.

Success = STC; Failure = oil prices, coronavirus, A380, geopolitical uncertainty, world economy, China slowdown, in short, anything but the senior ek management.

[Monarch Man]

You forgot fluctuations in the Rouble, the Zloti cratering against the US dollar and of course a market oversupply in Pork belly’s

[777boyindubai]

800 crew were fired today. Also a number of CCM’s before they were pushed.

[neh13]

My Hainan mate said Hainan is paying him 25k US a year at the moment sort of like a retention pay.

Yeah and the water coolers now have champagne at HNA HQ. Your Mate is pulling your leg or something. There is no retention pay at HNA. I Love HNA and can’t wait to get back to my old paycheck.It is the best company I ever worked for and the nicest people to work with. Never looked back at leaving EK.

[The Outlaw]

800 crew were fired today. Also a number of CCM’s before they were pushed.

What is the total number of layoff's then? It sounds like about 1500 if you add the 700 or so from last week.

[SOPS]

Is it 800 cabin crew or flight crew?

[Cantbebothered]

800 crew were fired today. Also a number of CCM’s before they were pushed.
Yes also a lot of the HR department,Scheduling and some CCM and some of their coordinators. Mostly the senior ranking ones it seems. The ones who were in EK from the very early days. Just hearing here and there from people now. I think most people over 50 have accepted their fate and if they were not called in they are very lucky. I wish them all the best of luck.

[Nick 1]

Shame .....

https://youtu.be/Olu_UPMqVuI

[donpizmeov]

I totally agree Nick He was a brand ambassador, and always professional and enthusiastic about his job. Unbelievable

[Black Pudding]

I totally agree Nick He was a brand ambassador, and always professional and enthusiastic about his job. Unbelievable ? meaning

[Airdancer]

He got booted together with other great crew who absolutely didnt deserve any of it

[Jet II]

Not sure that any of the tens of thousands of airline staff around the globe who are losing their jobs actually 'deserve it'

Very sad days for all.

[Airdancer]

That's absolutely true but the emphasis of this whole thread is that EK has randomly kicked people out who seriously didnt deserve it...

[PilotLZ]

Just as many carriers. There's hardly a fair way to tell which 20% of the workforce "deserve" to go in such a situation. Of course, there are always some obviously troublesome people who will likely be first on the wrong list, but many get on it for reasons that are rather subjective. As you can read on all the other threads where the topic of seniority has been done to death, even the classic LIFO is very far from perfect. Actually, any strategy is equally bad if it puts you on the wrong list.

[doolay]

even the classic LIFO is very far from perfect

But show me a better, fairer system.

[Jet II]

A lottery? - OK I can see why that wouldn't suit the company but at least everyone gets the same chance.

[PilotLZ]

LIFO is seen as fair by those on top of the seniority list because it would safeguard them at the expense of their younger colleagues. Conversely, those on the wrong part of the list usually have different views, often along the lines of "why me, having 30 years of working life ahead, instead of someone having 3 years of working life left".

Whatever you do in such a situation, someone will be upset with it. There's no nice, non-discriminatory way of showing someone the door, especially in a situation when they are unlikely to find a comparable job anytime soon. Except for the case when the entire company has gone belly-up and everyone is in the same boat, someone will inevitably suffer more than someone else.

[donpizmeov]

But show me a better, fairer system.

Maybe get rid of those on contracts while on leave without pay from other Airlines before you sack regular employees?

[fatbus]

LIFO ! Downgraded Captains easy requalifcation To the right seat . Those with warnings /sick days separate issue !

[Dropp the Pilot]

Huddled around the boardroom table and trying to cut costs, the first thing that any executive will notice is that for the price of one twenty-year TRE who takes the accomodation allowance it is possible to pay two junior captains. As the executive swiftly types the email dumping the TRE it seems unlikely that LIFO crosses his mind.

There are few social justice warriors at that table.

[Jet II]

So in that scenario dumping the old guy is 'fairer' than LIFO as it allows you to save 2 jobs rather than one whilst still meeting the financial savings target.

[5star]

ATC once again showed he is going to run this airline into the ground.
By sacking guys who’ve had 0 issues in their career, but had a onetime spike in sickness ( i personally know a guy who got the boot last week because he broke his leg in a car accident last year), he has changed everything.
If you get sick for more than a few days (who know how many that is now) for whatever reason, including an accident, you put yourself on death row....
Not only is this a very dangerous precedent in the airline industry, the effects on pilot retention in EK will be massive once this virus thing is over.
Everyone will now plan their career completely different once things normalise. Get in, maybe get a command and some hours and then get out ASAP.
The random sacking of guys is a game changer for +90% percent of the pilots remaining on the paylist.

[krismiler]

Just like in the military, it’s better to be the “Grey Man” who doesn’t stand out. Not too junior, so you have some distance from LIFO, and not too senior and costing too much. No warning letters, no worker activism, minimal sick days and good test scores. Someone whose name and face are unknown to management.

John J. Anonymous

[5star]

and to Dropp,
none of the TREs or TRIs have lost their job last week (except maybe 1 or 2 guys).
so ....try again.

[GH66]

What makes you so sure of the maybe only 1 or 2 guys? I or 2 guys whose faces didn’t fit you are correct!

[fatbus]

I know at least 3 !

[14 6]

and to Dropp,
none of the TREs or TRIs have lost their job last week (except maybe 1 or 2 guys).
so ....try again.

To be able to make that statement, you must know every single name on that list. If so, please tell us who else is going to get fired.

[WB1900]

Well this is why caring company’s offer in the first round a retirement package - in case of EK a easy 200 pilots as not every senior captain is willing to fly 120hr/m for the next 3-5 years
second round is seniority thereafter if required down grade captains by seniority to right seat with given priority for the left again
that’s it - I have seen companies doing exactly this and combined with unpaid leave short work etc it worked well and found a wide understanding amongst employees but that’s only for manager who cares

if people get sacked over cost position e.g. using sick days and costing medical support to the company means only you penalized over using your contracted “health insurance “ where you not even have a choice to do different - excellent system

and punishing somebody over one misshab in operation - if one of you is supportive to such a criteria be careful it could be you for farting into the seat and getting reported

avaiation had only on fair system - seniority as it let everybody know where he/she stands and not having sleepless night - interfering safety while the circumstances how you are chosen stay in the dark

[slowjet]

Just wish we had the balls to do what our Commercial Licences privilage us to do ; Fly for Hire / Reward. Doesn't matter a dam what is written on the side of an aeroplane. But, we all fall in the trap of making up silly answers to even sillier questions from nerdy management like " How long do you intend staying with us ?" . After retirement, I continued to consult in recruitment and had to tell, many times, daft HR bods to stop asking that or similar questions. I would defend candidates by suggesting that they were already "commercial" pilots. They will stay as long as it suits, That is the essence of flying for hire / reward.

There will be no recruitment for a long time and if it returns, we will continue to be asked that same, daft question and we will continue to invent even more daft answers.

Survival in the rat-race and we will do what it takes. Heart breaking awful times. Bon chance to all who survive & stick with it.

[FlightDetent]

the effects on pilot retention in EK will be massive once this virus thing is over. Everyone will now plan their career completely different once things normalise. Get in, maybe get a command and some hours and then get out ASAP. To join a proper airline with seniority - at the bottom - who have unions and will respect LIFO through the worst of times - putting yourself right on the next firing line voluntarily. Doesn't read like a plan a significant majority of qualified PIC would sign their families for.

Don't worry about the future. Live through today and plan something enjoyable with your dearest for the immediate tomorrow.

[Airbubba]

That's certainly how it works in what is by far the world's largest airline hiring market, America (not North America ;)). And almost all pilots hired by major U.S. airlines have been PIC on something and have several thousand hours of turbine time just to get an interview.

The two large U.S. cargo airlines that are hiring right now are getting very good quality applicants I'm told.

[FlightDetent]

I have all the reasons to believe that, even if you said the queue runs trice around the HQ building. In another good time, will the re-located and settled,7-years PICs of the future EK be leaving for those jobs as a group because of this month's moral lesson?

[Airbubba]

And some of the folks here who were EK captains took entry level jobs at U.S. carriers in recent years. Many of them will hit the streets on October 1. :(

But, unlike their EK colleagues who were let go, they will be recalled in order of seniority before other folks are hired when (and if) things pick back up.

[Airbubba]

Questionable timing? :confused:

A former EK flight attendant tries to dox an obnoxious passenger on her YouTube video blog:

https://onemileatatime.com/emirates-cabin-crew-revenge-complaining-passenger/

[Vortex Thing]

A little confused as to what it is that she is complaining about? It appears that one of her muckers got canned for using her mobile phone on the flight. Errrm good!

So what is the probem! This ridiculous obsesion that the cabin crew and some of the pilots (granted mostly the young ones) seem to have with their phones is unhealthy and dangerous. It really isn't that hard when you get on the crew bus turn it off. When you get back on the crew bus and are landside out of view of pax then by all means fill your boots.

Anything else can wait. I have had FOs turning on their phones as we taxy off the runway!

I mean I know that something really exciting may have happend on snaptok, tikchat, facitter, twitbook or even pprune in the hours since V1 but if it has waited hours it can wait a few more mins until you are siting in a poloshirt on the loo in The Westin.

As for getting the passengers name from god knows where and then posting it on youtube and asking for it to be used against him! Hmmm methinks that she would be lucky to not get sued by the very guy she is complaining about.

This is all threadcreep however but thank you for the amusing interlude from people having their lives destroyed unsurprisingly by a system that has been doing the same to indiividuals for almost 30 years now. Lets be honest no one surely can be surprised that EK are acting in such a manner? I don't mean that the cuts are happening, that goes without saying but the fact that they are doing in such a fashion? Because if you are surprised then you havent followed the individual campaigns of lives being destroyed that people have been telling on prune since pontius was a pilot. It will interesting what will happen when the banks figure out the larger problem at hand and there are more cars parked at the airport then there are parked at the stadium during the 7s.

[Urquell]

It’s a shame there is have the pilots who do wrong the system. I been told that management pilots who have office days on public holidays. Those who check one who fails in the sim and his deputy who has office days on during public holidays when he is holiday in a mountainous chocolate country in Europe. And they let hard working pilots go.

[gehenna]

Urquell

What on earth are you trying to say? Your comments are incomprehensible .....................

[GH66]

.... And you are forgetting the vindictive management one (s) who cannot fly out of a wet paper bag, forget where they came from, but puts a suit on feeling utterly more important than their colleagues and then chastise guys for minor insignificant rubbish just to make him/them feel important (not)! The only C/pilots I have ever worked with that makes it a point to ensure you know how large their egos are and that your welfare is their mission to destroy! Shameful!

[bafanguy]

'bubba,

I'd suspect there's now a large flood of highly qualified pilots from the ME and Asia headed to any available jobs in the USA. UPS and FedEx were hard enough to get back during the pilot shortage. Now it's likely near impossible. The ante for the game has been elevated.

[fatbus]

Ref: EK management, lets hope for some karma! Most of them have absolutely no business being there. Small man syndrome comes to mind .

[Emma Royds]

The unpredictable and clandestine behaviour of the company will do Dubai no favours in the years ahead. Those left here will think twice before investing or even spending larger sums that used to be spent, with little consideration being given.

On the topic about the precarious nature of LIFO if you join a new company, at least you are only vulnerable once when you are at the bottom of the seniority list with LIFO used for redundancy. However, everyone shares the same vulnerability at EK!!!

[Busbitch]

Things will pick up again in aviation, things will pick up again in the Middle East. When they do, the people who were betrayed by Emirates & those who got to keep their jobs will not forget how people were treated. The lives ruined, the families thrown out like garbage, the trust obliterated, careers in the toilet, the pain, the cost, the worry, depression, divorce, suicide.....the toll it took and how long it took to recover. Emirates will be rewarded for their greed, selfishness & heartbreaking destruction with a flight crew that hate working there and the new joiners who are so ****, they can't get a gig anywhere else.
Best of luck Emirates, I hope your best people leave when thing pick up & you go broke.

[NOFLY7773]

Nailed it and these clowns don’t even have the decency to contact the people they have made redundant. Two weeks on and not a word. Meanwhile the rumours are rife and the ones that are left are more worried than ever. Such bad management and it is only going to get worse for the people left behind as they struggle to keep there head above water. I’m so glad I got redundancy and know of people that have asked for and got it too.

[SOPS]

Most of Ek’s markets seem to have increasing cases of the virus. Australia and NZ are closed UFN. In Australia the Government is now talking of keeping the borders shut to at least March 2021.. or perhaps even until there is a vaccine.

I can’t seeing this ending well.

[FatPilot]

Emirates will be rewarded for their greed, selfishness & heartbreaking destruction with a flight crew that hate working there and the new joiners who are so ****, they can't get a gig anywhere else.
Hang on, you just perfectly summed up the last ten years.

That might happen again but they don't and still won't care as long as the jets are flying. Never have, never will. The people who learn this and smile and take their money each month, send it home and eventually leave are the ones who are happy. The ones who can't figure this out bitch and moan and remain miserable. Never fear, this turd will be picked up, re-shaped and polished and will shine again just as soon as the markets open up again.

[fatbus]

Still no comment from fleet , gag order , from the highest level. A true indication of how you are not valued . EK may never recover from this. Soon dominated by 3rd world employees making it a 3 Rd world airline ( maybe the case already) . 1st world expats that made the airline what it was have either been tossed out like garbage or treated with total lack of respect . Why will anyone that remains do anything other than the minimum. 2 buckets and the second is full for most . The good old days are gone forever , bloody depressing place now !

[4HolerPoler]

You misunderstand flankerpilot - nowhere did Fatbus raise a racist issue - sure, he mentioned 3rd world and 1st world but that ain’t racist and certainly, in my reading, in no manner implies white/black/yellow/brown.

Your reaction is in itself racist; it certainly raises significant racial issues.

Your report to the administrators has been considered and found to have no merit.

Take a long hard look in the mirror and consider whether you yourself are not a racist Sir.

[777boyindubai]

Flankerpilot. Give over. Fatty is many things. A racist he certainly aint.

[4HolerPoler]

Move on please folk; a small difference of opinion resolved in a very professional manner.

These are tough timelines; please avoid crossing swords if at all possible and preferably resolve the matter by Private Message rather than duking it out on the forum.

Be safe out there.

[krismiler]

Memories are short, particularly if someone was not directly affected, and it's going to be an employers market for many years to come. There will be plenty of high quality applicants looking for jobs, and whilst EK won't be top of their list, they will definitely work their way down to it if the preferred employers are unavailable. The Middle East may not be a place that pilots aspire to work, but bills have to be paid and many peoples retirement funds have taken a knock and need replenishing.

Big shiny jet syndrome and a adequate remuneration package will likely allow minimum joining requirements of 500 hours A320/B737 time once recruitment starts again.

[WB1900]

well a 500 hour 320/737 Or commercial turbo prop guy is better than a piper flight school guy.
but they will shut their mouth over the chance in a life time to fly widebodies with a quick command.
and will except everything
EK plays a very dirty game here
excellent, dedicated people have been shown the door in the most disgusting and disgraceful way possible to imagine - and the management keeps quite - even better STC announces proudly „they all will come back, as they can’t do anywhere“
Dubai is an extremely racist place when it comes to expats, and a lot open minded people became racist under these condition.
Locals believe that they are superior and born to lead - goats maybe - but definitiv no contry
dubai is a big bubble of lies and companies like EK are abusing this cover to make it even harder for expats for their own greed
who believes that the current enumeration package for those are still here will return, well I wish you good luck.
for the new joiners, or possible reapplication guy read careful what the next package will be, it will be minimum and there will no step increases, health care is mostly up to yourself and the provident fund his history as all other goodies people received 10-15 years ago
its the local leadership who had said it very proudly - EMIRATISATION - This will not only be the management this will be the flight deck and cabin crew as well
if you look to your right he can screw your live but won’t endanger himself as all these people good or bad will be untouchable if making mistakes as locals don’t make mistakes and always have an excuse and protection
locals can and will continue to break the rules established by their own leader and will get away with it. A country which can’t even follow their own traffic rules and insist to be allowed to endanger others for their own gain - a mind blowing arrogant society.
dubai is a 3rd world country hidden behind high tec and money but the mindset is 3rd world country.

History in flight ops has shown that what ever they do will be covered by excuses and thrown under the carpet
this is a country where protecting your own ass became the most vital thing to do over the day and any lie or abuse of power is just good enough to achieve the daily goal of survival
remeber if you haven’t been trapped in the abuse of power due to a trainer who tried to screw you just because he could with no explanation you got a 3 or even a fail for utter BS where nobody wanted to Hear the truth and questioned the training body.
the so called excellent management consists of yes sayers towards the superior manager
EK became a machinery which only reacts and never touches an underlying problem as it mostly involves locals at the tip of the ice berg who gets only promoted upwards as local rules state that a local cannot be demoted to worse Salary or even loose his job over his wrong doing. The worst thing what can happen is being moved sideways up.
it demonstrates the true leadership from the very top to the bottom as the best in the world need every single country work power, expertise, and inspiration in the world to be what they are, except peal fishers, goat herders and camel riders
And yes call me naiv that I believed that expat management will do better than Arab show of - yes I was wrong and I regret my decision to join them more than a decade ago. I have asked myself often enough how these people sleep, and well I know because they are bad people.

I still hope for karma that these people get a payday for what they have destroyed in the last 3 weeks.

[glofish]

Come on guys, get a grip! Focus and save your energy on your way forward. Nobody is listening to our rants, few people sympathize with pilots (envy?) and with EK pilots especially (former envy again?).

The layoffs are happening, everywhere. No rant or protest will help, the economy dictates as it dictated the opportunity to get all those jobs. That’s the way it works.

There are different approaches to handle this reality, we all agree. But the jobs would be lost both ways and we all knew how some regions handle such situations. We also knew it would not only apply to the poor low cost workers.

Refocus on your future, because we know how the miserable ME approach turns out. Take a look at GulfAir and take a hard look at PIA. That’s where Emiratisation is heading and you don’t want to be here no more in the very close future anyway.

[14 6]

Memories are short, particularly if someone was not directly affected, and it's going to be an employers market for many years to come. There will be plenty of high quality applicants looking for jobs, and whilst EK won't be top of their list, they will definitely work their way down to it if the preferred employers are unavailable. The Middle East may not be a place that pilots aspire to work, but bills have to be paid and many peoples retirement funds have taken a knock and need replenishing.

Big shiny jet syndrome and a adequate remuneration package will likely allow minimum joining requirements of 500 hours A320/B737 time once recruitment starts again.

I think your analysis of the situation is very close to what is actually going to happen! Not good news for us, but true.

[Jet II]

Refocus on your future, because we know how the miserable ME approach turns out. Take a look at GulfAir and take a hard look at PIA. That’s where Emiratisation is heading and you don’t want to be here no more in the very close future anyway.

I'm not sure anyone, especially those working at EK, thought it would be any different. The consensus when I joined 13 years ago was that EK was becoming the new GF - it was inevitable.

The only thing that has changed has the timescale with the Coronavirus speeding up the process.

[chemo2018]

To those that survive let me tell you about long-term sick at EK.

During long-term sick, you will be paid full basic salary. They will pay all medical expenses, housing and education bills for the family.

It’s only for 12 months. 12 months and 1 day you will be let go. The 12 months goes by really fast.

Remember there is no short/long-term disability. Here at EK when your medical is suspended it can be indefinite. Which means it can go beyond the 12 months. No loss of medical license insurance policy. The only way to collect on the policy was to have your medical certificate revoked. If revoked and there were still some exclusions to collect, one exclusion is if you were to be diagnosed with depression, you can beyond 12 months, no payout. Out the door you go!!!!!

For me, my long-term sick went down to the full 12 months. It was a very stressful situation. I had to organize everything. I was dealing with 4 doctors outside of EK and 1 AME. Not to mention a GCAA medical review board. No one was talking to each other. It was a mess. Then when I did get my medical reinstated, I had to go in for a “special” EK physical fix exam. This exam report will be given to your chief pilot. If you chose not to take the exam you will be shown the door. This exam will give the company a report on the chances of you getting the same illness and whether or not you can remain employed. For me, I passed. But wait there’s more. About a month after being reinstated I was called in for a little chat. This time with HR and fleet. During this meeting you get to “defend” yourself for being sick. At the end of the meeting I was handed a warning letter. It was a 2 year “ level 3 capability” letter. Basically, meaning that If would get sick again with the same illness, during text 24 months I would be let go.

And just to and more stress to your life. Once the medical is reinstated. There will be medical restriction applied to keep the medical current. I had to be medically reviewed, by 4 different doctors + 1 AME, every three months in case of relapse for next two years. Between medical reviews and sim checks I felt every month could be my last month.

We are only human, we do get sick. I was not out doing extreme sports, did not get into a car accident, I didn’t fall down the steps and break a leg, I got cancer. I didn’t ask for it just happened. I’ve recovered + one-year cancer free.

Because of my surgery, chemo treatment 7 + months, I was unfit for sim and office duty. I believe, if I could have been fit for ground duties it could have saved me, but who knows.

Getting diagnosed with cancer at EK will only get your medical license suspended, initially, it could be revoked later depending on how you respond to treatment/recovery and or staging.

Because of my high sick time, all in the last 2+ years, fired, I am going home. I ready for it.

It will be a few years before EK will ever hire again. When it does the T/C Won’t be remotely close to what I was given. Shiny new jet syndrome can be considered an illness!!!!!!! The big takeaway from this is to understand the difference of a medical suspension/revocation of your medical certificate.

[chemo2018]

"remember if you haven’t been trapped in the abuse of power due to a trainer who tried to screw you just because he could with no explanation you got a 3 or even a fail for utter BS where nobody wanted to Hear the truth and questioned the training body"

Or on the day the trainer has to FAIL a student because he was called in the office and told that his pass rate is to high. WTF. As a trainer in a previous life, I was proud of my pass rate. I was never questioned on the success of my students.. My philosophy was if my student failed, I failed. .You roll the dice every time you go to the sim. I guess during the briefing before the sim is to ask the trainer how is pass/fail numbers stack up in the training department..

[VThokie2]

Here at home if an airline initial or upgrade training course consistently produced too many failures the regulatory agency would start investigating the training program because apparently they aren’t training very well! I was so happy to leave EK when I did back in 2017!

[flyboyone]

Sick and tired of the constant winging by those who are employed In Dubai for one of the worlds largest aviation employers. Ever heard of the phrase “ don’t bite the hand that feeds you”. You take the money, you enjoy free quality living, good travel benefits, and I here a good provident fund scheme. So if you find all of this just so unbearable, stand by your words and go find a job in some other part of the world. I am sure you will soon find plenty to whinge about there too.

[Emma Royds]

Whilst at the same time ignoring housing and school bills which do greatly affect their cost base today.


That cash gets recycled back into the local economy, so I suspect they view it as a more desirable cost!

[Silver68]

flyboyone


May I suggest you don't read the thread if it bothers you that much. Also, you mention free quality of living.... what is that? Dubai is many things but the quality of life is no where near free.

[GH66]

flyboyone

No shortage of blind fools!!! You must be working on the third floor - let me guess???

[exekcabincrew]

"Free quality of living" The 3rd-est floor thing on this thread so far. Keep 'em coming boys! :D:ugh:

[The Outlaw]

Sick and tired of the constant winging by those who are employed In Dubai for one of the worlds largest aviation employers. Ever heard of the phrase “ don’t bite the hand that feeds you”. You take the money, you enjoy free quality living, good travel benefits, and I here a good provident fund scheme. So if you find all of this just so unbearable, stand by your words and go find a job in some other part of the world. I am sure you will soon find plenty to whinge about there too.

"One of the world's largest" perhaps, but certainly far from the world's best employers, very, very far! This is not a case of "biting that hand that feeds you, the dog was bitten by the master in this case. Did you expect people not to vent and express their anger, frustration and disappointment? Did you ever stop to consider that these people moved to the UAE lock, stock and barrel and committed to this company only to receive a swift kick in the bollocks for their efforts?

You must be a soulless EK manager.

"Free quality living", that was pretty funny...none of those 3 words apply in the UAE.

The only statement you made that might have a modicum of accuracy was, "So if you find all of this just so unbearable, stand by your words and go find a job in some other part of the world." Many of us did! It was seriously the best move I have ever made in my aviation career, no regrets and not a whinge since.

[Rhodes13]

You must be a soulless EK manager.

Definitely not take a look at the posting history. He works over at the air wing, so I'm not sure whether his boss would approve of his posting.

[5star]

As does 50% of someone’s basic.

My point is though, they had options.

Of all the criteria they could have used - this was the most vindictive and made the least business sense.

Indeed.
least business sense. This whole thing does not make any sense at all. It was pure revenge by someone going t1nder-style like over the flight deck profiles and destroying random lives of guys with families and some of them with big commitments in Dubai....
The writing was on the wall, as we all have seen them making odd decisions past few years....
But I think that most of the guys affected indeed did not see this one coming.. very sad days...
Well like that d-wing dude interfering in these posts above in typical style, we all know so well, suggested,. Lets move on, nothing to see here...:ugh:(sarcasm intended)..

[fatbus]

"Most vindicative " perfect description of EK managers! I hope people don't forget this disgusting event .

[Dropp the Pilot]

I'm pretty sure that if you check your wallet you will not find an EKalpa union membership card.

How then does it become "vindictive" and "disgusting" when the employer culls the ranks as and when and how he chooses?

Genuinely curious

[fatbus]

Have you ever had a warning letter or HR capablity hearing , I mean meeting ? The way people have and are being treated is disgusting . I was also involved in a investigation that was to say the least vindicative towards the individual being investigated. Manager wanted him gone !

[givemewings]

I'm not sure whether his boss would approve of his posting.

I dunno, a post that effectively says "If you don't like it, then leave!" sounds like something most EK managers would approve of... :E

[Neektu]

Very well stated

[paule737]

Obsolete Type Rating and moving families!

With a GCAA A380 or a B777 type Rating you can do anything but nothing!! Unless you tried to keep it alive by paying for your own EASA or FAA checks....

Says it all....

[FlightDetent]

As long as you have the EASA licence and are reasonably current, the other ICAO recognized type ratings are transferable to it. It's an administrative task for a small fee, all you need to do is present the underlying licence and valid class I EASA medical, IIRC.

There would be a restriction that is removed by taking a LPC check, I. E. 2 hrs SIM ride worth about 600 EUR if self financed.

[WB1900]

literally the only authority which did that was the Irish as they where the only ones who accepted the Gcaa check form.
al others stopped doing it and you had to do a check with a EASA trainer on a EASA sim to have the type on your EASA lic. All of them stopped making A6 restriction in your EASA lic. Only Ireland still does it.
so it’s not so easy to transfer without paying quite a few bucks

[WB1900]

"remember if you haven’t been trapped in the abuse of power due to a trainer who tried to screw you just because he could with no explanation you got a 3 or even a fail for utter BS where nobody wanted to Hear the truth and questioned the training body"

Or on the day the trainer has to FAIL a student because he was called in the office and told that his pass rate is to high. WTF. As a trainer in a previous life, I was proud of my pass rate. I was never questioned on the success of my students.. My philosophy was if my student failed, I failed. .You roll the dice every time you go to the sim. I guess during the briefing before the sim is to ask the trainer how is pass/fail numbers stack up in the training department..

In EK you are lucky to receive a training with one of the few excellent trainers. And there are quite a few trainers who wanted train to success and had been shown the door.

in general EK pilots are not trained they are checked only - lets be honest 3h sim with 2h briefing shows only that EK wants to talk about flying but not practice

[VThokie2]

The EK training department never fully embraced the concept of imparting knowledge ie teaching. There were quite a few excellent TREs, I’m sure they’ve all been shown the door by now. Excellent TRIs were more sparse, which is where you actually need the enthusiastic teachers. You can take a B1900 pilot and transition them to 747s within an allotted syllabus time with a good trainer that are permitted by the system to teach and are encouraged to share tips/tricks/technique IN ADDITION to SOP. Happens all the time in the States. Unfortunately at EK it was always the line Captains that actually had to teach new hires how to REALLY fly the plane, because the training department couldn’t be bothered.

[felixthecat]

The number of pilots made redundant that I have personally spoken too that have one thing in common, a medical incident generally surgery, is shocking. Shoulder surgery, back surgery, eye surgery, leg surgery, lung problems, cancer. I would love to think it is coincidence,

Surely a company couldn’t be that callous and vindictive that they fire long serving employees because they had a life incident? A modern caring company wouldn’t do that would they? No they wouldn’t, so what does that tell us about Emirates?

What does that tell you about the safety culture? Will pilots call sick now? Pilots who will fly sick because they are concerned that they need to put food on the table of their families. Pilots stressed to their eyeballs not knowing if they are next. Safety, safety culture, don’t make me laugh.

[Monarch Man]

The EK training department never fully embraced the concept of imparting knowledge ie teaching. There were quite a few excellent TREs, I’m sure they’ve all been shown the door by now. Excellent TRIs were more sparse, which is where you actually need the enthusiastic teachers. You can take a B1900 pilot and transition them to 747s within an allotted syllabus time with a good trainer that are permitted by the system to teach and are encouraged to share tips/tricks/technique IN ADDITION to SOP. Happens all the time in the States. Unfortunately at EK it was always the line Captains that actually had to teach new hires how to REALLY fly the plane, because the training department couldn’t be bothered.

Couldnt agree more, sadly in my time the trainers that actually wanted to impart decent knowledge and helpful tips and tricks were whittled down to basically a person or two whom had escaped the attentions of the various fiefdoms that existed along national and ethnic grounds. As I’ve stated before, there was no way in hell I would have subjected myself to the nonsense and poorly thought out edicts and whims.

On the subject of redundancy, true to form EK are a mere stain, the considerable lack of humanity shown is part and parcel with the Arab mentality that is enabled by various western sycophants masquerading as qualified individuals. I do however draw some solace in the knowledge that a good number of these sycophants have been shown the door, the other positive outcome is that many of the Emirati oxygen thieves inhabiting positions above their genetic and intellectual capacity are now going to be required to actually work. I await with interest to see the inevitable and inexorable decline as the squabbling and Wasta take their natural course.
Lastly remember this, we aviators are resilient, we are skilled, we are creative and we are (mostly) intelligent...there WILL be an uptick, enforced change causes enforced adaptation, you can get through this.

[EchoKilla]

it’s a True comment “western sycophants masquerading as qualified individuals”. There’s a ton of office Grade 10s that actually and I repeated only finished high school that have zero to negative qualifications - the so called ex British airways group. Shockingly some in departments like safety and operations Who still hold or about to lose their positions as we speak

now for the emirati cadre - there’s actually a whole lot smarter bunch than the above who believe it or not will weather the storm and maybe give them the chance to do better than the expat lot. I agree - loads won’t but some will

the way crew has been treated is unforgivable. And since I started this thread - I wasn’t trying to coz harm I was giving a warning that it’s happening and continuing to happen

the pilots and crew thrown out the door did not deserve this . And the ones staying I hope will have the conscience that as soon as things get better will opt for better responsible airlines

[14 6]

‘Killa, as I have said before, stop beating yourself up over starting this thread. You were merely a watchman on a tower who spotted a column of smoke rising. You probably helped a few people by preventing them from taking on more debt. Maybe your post created enough doubt in someone’s mind to hold off making a life changing decision until more clarity was received. Who knows?.....

The only people upset with you are the ostriches who either couldn’t or wouldn’t see this coming.

This whole situation remains tragic!

Any rumour whether there will be another round? And when?

[FatPilot]

The EK training department never fully embraced the concept of imparting knowledge ie teaching. There were quite a few excellent TREs, I’m sure they’ve all been shown the door by now. Excellent TRIs were more sparse, which is where you actually need the enthusiastic teachers.
Unfortunately at EK it was always the line Captains that actually had to teach new hires how to REALLY fly the plane, because the training department couldn’t be bothered.

In fact they used to have a very effective training dept in 90s and into 2000s however as it got bigger and bigger it was infiltrated by the lesser and lesser skilled and third world who then "taught" the new joiners who then got into training themselves and before long you had a couple of thousand qualified pilots who knew none of the finer points but still couldn't be told a thing by the line captains, many of whom were equally clueless anyway. Is that accurate? Some of the safety reports you used to read before they clammed up were just mind blowing.

[VThokie2]

In fact they used to have a very effective training dept in 90s and into 2000s however as it got bigger and bigger it was infiltrated by the lesser and lesser skilled and third world who then "taught" the new joiners who then got into training themselves and before long you had a couple of thousand qualified pilots who knew none of the finer points but still couldn't be told a thing by the line captains, many of whom were equally clueless anyway. Is that accurate? Some of the safety reports you used to read before they clammed up were just mind blowing.

Yup that pretty much nails it....I wish I had the presence of mind to keep a few of those weekly safety report write ups, I try to convey what EK was like to my coworkers here at home and those reports would be eye opening for them. I did save my training reports for a good laugh...”sorry mate I’m gonna have to give you a 3 for SOP because you said “check” and not “check’ed” and you missed the “FL200 climbing FL360 call”, it’s still passing... more for your benefit than for mine!”... yea whatever, sign my certificate of test and let me go home!

I’m so glad I’m at an operator where we get checked every 12 months, relatively low threat. Line ops is low threat, if u screw something up It just goes in as a datapoint for the safety and/or training dept. No retribution, punishment. Any redundancies will be done in reverse seniority order with recall rights. Every week throughout this crisis our top executive leadership holds virtual “washups” with about an hour of Q+A. Maybe EK could take some pointers.

The only good thing I can say about EK was for the most part out on the line it was an outstanding group of pilots to fly with, at least when I was there.

[WB1900]

Let’s put it that way
the ex cpa is now training manager but actually not a trainer yet or just very short
who was replaced as cpa by a well know man not having any sympathy to his crew at all

EK offers a “health insurance” which is not a insurance rather than a the company pays for the health service and because it is that way we could not even choose to have a real insurance
so now apparently people a blamed and punished for Having used the “insurance”
what kind of society is that if we blame people for having health issues by throwing them and their families into a total disaster
what happens if you have a severe illness and you suddenly loose all medical support because you suddenly don’t have an insurance anymore - what a disgrace for a society which has per their rules and religion the duty to take care
i have a friend who’s contract got not renewed because of to many sick days - he has cancer - the company left him to die because he can’t afford health care any more

what a disgusting attitude of these people

[fatbus]

DW is CPA ? Not even a Captain. Were you referring to DCPA's ?

[WB1900]

the man before DW

[5star]

Have a look at GFN of today, and look for the letter about the 600 EK pilots that were laid off...
I guess someone from within is trying to downplay the redundancy of the 600 ‘poor’ EK pilots...
One just cannot make up this sh1t.....

[WB1900]

did something happen in Dubai and with its world best airline? Nothing to find

[Airbubba]

Have a look at GFN of today, and look for the letter about the 600 EK pilots that were laid off...


COVID-19: Why target Emirates when airlines worldwide have hit turbulence?Job losses at Dubai carrier are being given significance over and above all else

Published: June 29, 2020 12:51 Last updated: June 29, 2020 14:23

Manoj Nair, Business Editor (https://gulfnews.com/business/analysis/covid-19-why-target-emirates-when-airlines-worldwide-have-hit-turbulence-1.1593421632102#)

Dubai: The COVID-19 outbreak changed a lot of mindsets, both at the individual level and those of businesses. Among the latter, you can place US airlines at the top of the list.Prior to COVID-19 taking down the entire airline industry, every other month, you had US airline chieftains and their industry groupings point fingers of accusation at the UAE carriers – Emirates and Etihad – about their “closeness” to their respective governments. That the governments were, directly or indirectly, financing the airlines and creating unfair advantages up in the skies.

And the US carriers wanted the American government to put its considerable weight to get the Gulf carriers to “play by the rules” of a level playing field. Apart from a few stray voices from US congressmen, the government as such never paid much heed to these distress calls by the airlines.

The implicit message seems to be that each redundancy Emirates makes is another telling blow on the “Dubai Story” and how it crafted a success route built around the airline over the last two decades. That Emirates now having to engage in heavy layoffs – and the cuts, by all measures have been substantial based on market talk – reflects a permanent weakening of Dubai’s future positioning in a – still – global economy.

In all these tellings about Emirates and Dubai, there are throwaway lines about how the airline industry worldwide is facing an existential crisis. Something over and above what it suffered post September 11, 2001, the Global Financial Crisis of 2008, and minor ones during the SARS crisis.

So, the parent company of British Airways drops mentions about 12,000 jobs being on the line; Virgin Australia now has a new owner and with no clarity over what future redundancies could hold. Another Australian carrier Qantas cuts 6,000 and with another 15,000 “stood down”. Lufthansa is looking at 22,000 jobs that could go even after the government pumps in a few billion euros of life-support…

If we were to head to the US, the airlines are raising the possibility of “30%” cuts across the board.

That’s what it’s all coming down to – the COVID-19’s will not be leaving its impact on businesses any time soon. The pain businesses and individuals feel will be real… and it will be there for a long time to come.

The airline industry is right at the frontlines of this unedifying descent into the unknown. No one knows when a recovery will be sighted. Summer of 2021? Or will it be even later than that?

Not even the sharpest brains in the industry have a clue about it. A gut instinct, yes, but nothing more.

Given all this evidence, why is there an - outsized – outpouring of analysis over the job losses at Emirates and Etihad?

The impression these analyses give is that layoffs point to something deeper, almost terminal in what they represent. It reached a new pitch when news broke about as many as 600 pilots at Emirates being given the pink slip. That these 600 jobs somehow represented the sum and substance of Emirates past, its present and its shaky future.

Surely, there are other airlines where pilots’ jobs were sacrificed in the current wave of redundancy programmes. But none of those have set off tidings of doom as these 600 jobs have.

And then there’s the subtext – that if Emirates has to make do with 600 fewer pilots and up to 30 per cent of its workforce, what would it mean for Dubai?

It’s a testimony to Emirates’ messaging over the years that such a close bonding has set in minds about its connection to and with Dubai. But surely, the airline should be allowed to make its decisions, even about job losses, without everyone having to draw a direct line to Dubai’s future.

Yes, those 600 pilot jobs do matter… as does every other job that has gone after the virus struck. And jobs that will go in the coming days and weeks.

But let’s not burden those 600 jobs with the weight of an entire economy, i.e. Dubai’s, and its future.

Dubai has the ways and means to get itself out of the current predicament. Emirates, and the resumption of its flights, is part of those ways and means. The emphasis is on the ‘part of’.

Let’s not make Emirates or those jobs the entire story.

Signed,

A not-so-frequent Emirates flyer...


https://gulfnews.com/business/analysis/covid-19-why-target-emirates-when-airlines-worldwide-have-hit-turbulence-1.1593421632102

[WB1900]

https://gulfnews.com/business/analysis/covid-19-why-target-emirates-when-airlines-worldwide-have-hit-turbulence-1.1593421632102
thanks for the copy of the article
in fact what is the shameful part is that It might not have been avoidable to reduce the workforce but how it was done
plunt ruthless no consideration for seniority or something else
no comment or alternative ways of handling it

[FatPilot]

COVID-19: Why target Emirates when airlines worldwide have hit turbulence?Job losses at Dubai carrier are being given significance over and above all else
Published: June 29, 2020 12:51 Last updated: June 29, 2020 14:23
But let’s not burden those 600 jobs with the weight of an entire economy, i.e. Dubai’s, and its future.
Dubai has the ways and means to get itself out of the current predicament.....
Signed,
A knob...

I think he's talking about them going down the road and begging more money from Uncle Mo. Last time they did that, part of the price was a name change for their big phallic symbol.

[EchoKilla]

i think Manoj is trying to upgrade his flying status from not-frequent to frequent with sky-downwards...... maybe they will offer him a masked dinner at the phallic symbol........

[Kennytheking]

One has to wonder what he has been reading. Every airline is fighting for it's life and is cutting jobs....and the people that are affected are fighting their fight. Why does he think our fight is any different to that of a person in the UK for example?? And the layoff's haven't even started yet in the USA.....just wait. We are here in Dubai, and so is he(presumably), so yeah, he is going to hear about the Emirates layoffs front and center.

One clear difference is that with Emirates laying off 10 000 employees(was it 700 or 7000 cabin crew - so hard to get the truth here), we will have close to 40 000 people leaving Dubai, factoring in families and support staff and their families). I am willing to bet 40k people won't be leaving the UK when IAG does it's layoffs. To think that 40k people leaving Dubai will not have an economic impact on the city is woefully naive.

The issue is not EK but the fact that it is symptomatic of every company going through the same thing. EK is probably one of the strongest, so if every company fires 30% of it's staff, it's hard to see how that will not have a profound impact on Dubai.

[WB1900]

and you would have imagined that the strongest companies would the last to lay-off due to their cash strength - but EK is under the first ones not providing alternatives to manage the issue

according to news papers around here EK has taken a lot of Cash subsidies and did not protect the jobs

[Airbubba]

I think he's talking about them going down the road and begging more money from Uncle Mo. Last time they did that, part of the price was a name change for their big phallic symbol.

Yep, as I wrote here three months ago:

EK knows that they will get government support. And if things get really bad, they can go to the piggy bank in Abu Dhabi. And maybe rebrand as Khalifa Airways sans the A380 'Albatross' fleet.

[fatbus]

Fatpilot , you referring to sheik Mo as in down the road from Dubai for a bail out ? If so you got the wrong guy !

[WB1900]

Another update past and still those have been made redundant are not even worth to be mentioned in one word

head in the sand keep hiding the bodies and keep rowing - disgraceful - while the rest has to live with the fear what will be next - but maybe they don’t have time in prep or enjoying summer holiday

[felixthecat]

I am convinced that some kind of gagging edict has been passed down from above. Rumours still abound of the next round, yet we have pilots flying under these stresses. Safety and a duty of care? What’s happened to that?
Across the road at Fly Dubai at least the fallen are getting calls from peer support, the fallen in Emirates are not even worth a kind word or mention. Thrown away like an old rag....disgusting

[DuneMentat]

The way I read it is they have been given a gag-order from top management so however much he want to say anything he's not allowed. Heard from someone they are still going at it with office staff so might still be a while before they'll update us on anything unfortunately..

[FatPilot]

Fatpilot , you referring to sheik Mo as in down the road from Dubai for a bail out ? If so you got the wrong guy !
Yeah you got me. That was the first name that came to mind for some reason. I believe he has bags and bags of money in a big room down there and nothing to do with it.

[DuneMentat]

I believe he has bags and bags of money in a big room down there and nothing to do with it.
Had I think..specially with the low oil prices.. he's not even giving any to his own airline..

[Python27]

There is still plenty of money, I'm sure of that. But his priorities now are to settle an issue at the courts with a former "asset" of him at the UK...

[Oceanic]

The Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund is currently worth US$ 696.9 Billion, third largest in the world.

[krismiler]

It won't take EY long to burn through that.

[WB1900]

Just red an article that the owner of virgin Atlantic will add 200mio £ for the company
this pretty much the same amount it would need to protect all lost jobs at EK for one year
think about that

[Joker11]

The way I read it is they have been given a gag-order from top management so however much he want to say anything he's not allowed. Heard from someone they are still going at it with office staff so might still be a while before they'll update us on anything unfortunately..

Yes they are. Definitely at dnata. Friend mentioned a few names of guys I used to work with who got the boot.
Seems they not done.

[Jet II]

Just red an article that the owner of virgin Atlantic will add 200mio £ for the company
this pretty much the same amount it would need to protect all lost jobs at EK for one year
think about that

Virgin are sacking 3000 employees - £200m is an attempt to save the rest. I would suggest that EK's borrowing this year will also soar even though they are losing staff.

[WB1900]

1.7b AED Profit 2019/20 acc khaleejs times
Something like 4.8b USD cash balance acc annual report 2019/2020

air France cuts 7500 jobs until 2023 - about 3500 via natural attrition -
I am not saying it’s anywhere better but we talk about way different starting positions

are there different ways - yes, there would be if somebody would care

[A.phlegm.med]

..if somebody would care

Enough said

[Emma Royds]

I suspect it will get a lot more ruthless and unpleasant before there is any sign of stability. For those of you that are flying, be there to help and support all of your crew.

[Fired600]

Let’s see what today brings.

[Omanexpat44]

The Sunday Times has an article today worth reading.

[White Knight]

The article being?

[Oceanic]

Interview with STC in the Business & Money section.

Paints a flattering picture of Clark, (whereas IMHO he is mainly culpable in the overcapacity & inability to position EK in a way they can respond to this drastic drop in travel).

Conversely, the interview in Forbes with Thierry Antinori Ex COO of EK, now Chief Transformation Officer at QR makes a strong statement on divergent strategy &future growth which is in stark contrast to EK.

Meanwhile both airlines are in the process of firing hundreds of pilots which doesn’t get a mention in either article (just that they are not gainfully employed)

[EchoKilla]

I have the article. Am I allowed to post it here as it’s a paywall thing

[olster]

‘Sir’ TC apparently started his career as a bus conductor in Bognor Regis (according to Sunday Times). Well Bognor Regis’ loss is ...No mention of the tsunami of job losses among pilots or cabin crew. Same on LinkedIn where any mention of EK provokes an outpouring of sycophancy. Very strange.

[WB1900]

he rather keeps 50bUsD assets than 22000 CC OR 4500pilot -
50b$ of metal has more importance than 26500 human lives - because they are ungainfully employed- that says it all

[The Outlaw]

WB1900,

Its the nature of the business. EK is in the business of making money for the city state, not to provide free money to people. Let's get real here. If you had a business selling tires would you continue to keep office staff, mechanics, accountants, sales people etc if all of a sudden people stopped buying tires for some reason? You might keep the tools knowing full well that you'd start the business again when people come back wanting a new set of white-walls.

While I have no love for EK, I understand that this is necessary in order to stay competitive for the long term. Granted they are making many people redundant in a rather terrible and unorthodox way, and it sucks to be on the wrong end of the letter/email/manager's desk but its a very real part of the highly cyclical nature of aviation worldwide.

It has been said here 1000's of times, you are only at EK/QR/ET etc. as long as you are needed. It never has and never will be "home" to anyone other than an Emirati.

[Jet II]

he rather keeps 50bUsD assets than 22000 CC OR 4500pilot -
50b$ of metal has more importance than 26500 human lives - because they are ungainfully employed- that says it all


Not sure that in the current market that $50bn in assets is actually worth $50bn.

the prices for Aluminium scrap are pretty low at the moment.

[EchoKilla]

he rather keeps 50bUsD assets than 22000 CC OR 4500pilot -
50b$ of metal has more importance than 26500 human lives - because they are ungainfully employed- that says it all

this was the bio at the bottom:
Vital statistics
Born: November 22, 1949
Status: married, with three grown-up children
School: Kent College, Canterbury
University: London (economics)
First job: bus conductor in Bognor Regis
Pay: undisclosed
Homes: Dubai, Barnt Green in Worcestershire and Lismore in Ireland
Car: Mercedes S500, which served as inspiration for Emirates’ new first class
Favourite book: “I’m reading a series of books about Alan Turing”
Film: The Good Liar, with Dame Helen Mirren and Sir Ian McKellen
Music: classical
Gadget: “Toaster. Really, my toaster”
Last holiday: cruise around South America
Charity: the Emirates Airline Foundation, which helps disadvantaged children

Working day
When in Dubai, the president of Emirates Airline gets up at 5.20am and is in his office an hour later. Sir Tim Clark has devoted much of his time lately to “streamlining” the business, trying to keep cash flowing, and liaising with banks and engineers. “Planes have to be fired up every month and flown every month.”

He stops work at about 5pm and goes to the gym. “During lockdown I pinched an exercise bike from the office gym and took it home.”

Downtime
Clark loves cruises. “It goes back to the days when I used to see my father at sea. His name was Joseph. He went to sea at 14 and ended up an oil tanker captain for Shell. He sailed everywhere.”

[WB1900]

WB1900,

Its the nature of the business. EK is in the business of making money for the city state, not to provide free money to people. Let's get real here. If you had a business selling tires would you continue to keep office staff, mechanics, accountants, sales people etc if all of a sudden people stopped buying tires for some reason? You might keep the tools knowing full well that you'd start the business again when people come back wanting a new set of white-walls.

While I have no love for EK, I understand that this is necessary in order to stay competitive for the long term. Granted they are making many people redundant in a rather terrible and unorthodox way, and it sucks to be on the wrong end of the letter/email/manager's desk but its a very real part of the highly cyclical nature of aviation worldwide.

It has been said here 1000's of times, you are only at EK/QR/ET etc. as long as you are needed. It never has and never will be "home" to anyone other than an Emirati.
agree so far that it might not be avoidable
but have they looked into every alternative - definitely not
business up or down - why do al sorts of companies around the globe a different approach as long as they can afford it - according to all the reports give by EK all the media presentation EK is definitely not in worst position to overcome the crisis - and yes I would show some humanity before I go to the worst measures, especially if I pull people into a place where it’s hard to get anywhere else - but that’s me.
fact is that EK had a lot of options

voluteering early retirment
following a seniority
unpaid leave
unpaid leave long term
if not enough volunteers - forced unpaid leave in revers senority order
lay-off with rehire on the same conditions and seniority
negotiate a lower base salary and temporary offset of provident
adjustment to housing allowance according to actual payments in mortgages - time limited

and on top of he wants to fly all 380 at beginning of 22, for this he needs to hire latest in August 21 - so that is 200m$ for 1 year without mentioned actions - at full pay to keep all of the pilots to start full gear again in 22 - but lives are not worth it even at times where humanity would be an important factor - he showed nothing but greed

just to a couple of ideas which come to my mind
at least a try to sort it out that’s way would have fair
and if all of that does not help than call it unavoidable

nothing absolutely nothing was considered except get ride of them

[olster]

I agree WB. There are a lot of options. Voluntary Redundancy, job share, unpaid / half pay leave. No creative thought, no empathy, no compassion. Just a 5 minute chat then out the door. Are we so far removed from the era when people were treated properly and management had some sort of morality or integrity? When pilots were respected for their training and qualifications? Sources within flight ops have told me that EK will be recruiting by October. On less pay off course; pure opportunism. What a shambles and what a dreadful,way to treat employees.

[aviation_enthus]

WB1900


While I understand your point and agree some more flexibility may have achieved the same out come for the company (reduction in costs).

I’ll counter that with the unfortunate truth....

EK is not a national airline, as in their only loyalty to the staff is the Emiratis (as it should be). So any decisions made after that has been established will be based entirely on $$$. That’s it. I’m sorry but sometimes we all just need to accept it and move on.

The calculation would be something like:
A) salary for X months of no flying
VS
B) new hire and potentially upgrade training

When the cost of A) exceeds B) by a suitable margin (hassle vs $$ saved), then they make people redundant.

IMHO that’s all there is to it.

EK are the epitome of efficiency in terms of how the company is set up.
- no pesky unions
- flexible duty limits to cover a wide range of duties
- fleet pay
- no fleet transfers unless required
- no yearly step increase in years of service
the list goes on.

So the way the redundancy process was going to be done was ALWAYS going to be the most efficient for the company. We can all wish otherwise, but that’s just the way it is...

[EchoKilla]

Very succinctly explained :D

[aviation_enthus]

Nowhere did I mention how they chose people to go. I’m not going to argue on that point.
Except...
To point out that all the ME airlines have done the same thing to choose who goes first.

Anyway I digress. My point was entirely about A vs B.

You don’t get what I’m saying. The cost of salary now VS cost of recruiting new staff in X months. That is the saving. Look at TC’s comments about things returning to normal in 2 years. 18 months of even 50% (plus accom/school/etc) VS the cost to rehire in 18 months.

[Joker11]

I agree WB. There are a lot of options. Voluntary Redundancy, job share, unpaid / half pay leave. No creative thought, no empathy, no compassion. Just a 5 minute chat then out the door. Are we so far removed from the era when people were treated properly and management had some sort of morality or integrity? When pilots were respected for their training and qualifications? Sources within flight ops have told me that EK will be recruiting by October. On less pay off course; pure opportunism. What a shambles and what a dreadful,way to treat employees.

Respected? Anywhere in the ME if you a different skin colour, religion and sex there is no respect. Don't make me laugh.

[Fired600]

The number of pilots who seem to have been made redundant due to little other than a surgery in the last x number of years is shocking. Pilots with clean records, good reports, no warnings but an incident of surgery or illness i.e. cancer, but had recovered and were fully productive again is in my opinion disgusting. It shows a total lack of empathy, care or human dignity.

There were so many ways that this could have been done but it wasn’t. The airline has shown everyone within its realm that it really doesn’t care at all about anyone in the company. Your hard work, and long term dedication is worth nothing, just make sure you dont go sick because if you do...

Pilots and cabin crew who will live every day in fear of an email destroying their lives, still expected to fly safely. Stress at unprecedented levels, and a workforce who will never call sick even for the most extreme of situation due to fear of their livelihoods.

Seriously, is this any way for a company to operate? What are the safety implications? Does anyone who manages this really even care?

[Whitemonk Returns]

I'm curious what those in the sandpit see as the long term implications of how EK and QR have played this whole thing re seniority. Two things we know for sure, pilots have short memories and right now any job is a good job... However I personally believe how they have cut people will hinder their long term recruitment prospects in the future. You will likely see a rise in T & Cs faster than we will in Europe as they struggle to convince people to trust them enough to uproot their families and move to the pit. I never expected EK or the like to treat their employees with respect or even decency but I did expect them to respect their seniority. Why would anyone in the future leave a job in Europe/US/Asia to join as an FO when 4 or 5 years in you could be cut adrift simply because you were unfortunate enough to need a few weeks off sick for any random number of reasons, it's not worth it anymore.

[WB1900]

well I strongly believe this going way beyond all of it
saving $$$ was one thing - doesn’t work out - only for the paper next March - if they saved now 2% of the employee costs they go to burn 1% on hire new ones
I think the whole story goes into emiratisation as well
they just made space for those boys in the flight school who are about to be due - they would not be needed if all expats would stay for the next 3 years
this a strong implication

[Capn Rex Havoc]

This is particularly relevant - especially the 9:30 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJyNoJCAuzA&feature=share

[5star]

good vid. maybe there is no such word in arabic...
having been for some time, it is everywhere in the ME society.... They just don’t care....
toxic....very toxic....

[Jet II]

I'm curious what those in the sandpit see as the long term implications of how EK and QR have played this whole thing re seniority. Two things we know for sure, pilots have short memories and right now any job is a good job... However I personally believe how they have cut people will hinder their long term recruitment prospects in the future. You will likely see a rise in T & Cs faster than we will in Europe as they struggle to convince people to trust them enough to uproot their families and move to the pit. I never expected EK or the like to treat their employees with respect or even decency but I did expect them to respect their seniority. Why would anyone in the future leave a job in Europe/US/Asia to join as an FO when 4 or 5 years in you could be cut adrift simply because you were unfortunate enough to need a few weeks off sick for any random number of reasons, it's not worth it anymore.

I would respectfully disagree - I dont think that the ME airlines will have any problems recruiting in the future as supply is going to outpace demand for many years, and will continue to do so due to the way that training is now carried out and the ability of people who want to be Pilots can self fund their training.

I also dont think that the argument that people will not move to the sandpit due to the insecurity of employment holds water as if you do long enough in this industry you eventually realise that no airline is fundamentally secure no matter what country it is in. For instance I know many flight crew in the US who have lost jobs and been furloughed (in some cases several times) over their long careers.

[Joker11]

There will be always morons that will sign up for this BS.

[VThokie2]

I also dont think that the argument that people will not move to the sandpit due to the insecurity of employment holds water as if you do long enough in this industry you eventually realise that no airline is fundamentally secure no matter what country it is in. For instance I know many flight crew in the US who have lost jobs and been furloughed (in some cases several times) over their long careers.

Being furloughed in the US is very different than what EK just did. Firing people out of seniority order with no recall rights is a whole different category of uncertainty.

As a US pilot and a former EK guy I can tell you once the furloughs start here very few will be looking towards the Middle East as in previous years as EK was a far different place to work back then (a moot point as I suspect the industry’s recovery will be much more rapid in the US and Europe)....the word is out as I’d imagine it is in most of Europe. To get a 1st world pilot to move to the Middle East you need to offer superior QOL and money for the trouble. EK now provides neither in contrast to the previous economic upheavals.

[WB1900]

i am pretty sure EK crosses a certain line I regards of moral loyalty and security
as per the previous years EK has recruited everybody who was interested- only a few will reconsider depending on their job and employment status - and on top half the airlines fly already with ex ek and sure enough they don’t look back once they have seen what’s going on right now

[Whitemonk Returns]

[

This guy gets it. The veil has been lifted, as someone who always harboured ideas of going to EK/QR at some point in my career, those days are over. The QOL, security, and even the money, are no longer there. It was always debatable as to whether life in Dubai would be worth it, now we all know.

I could lose my job tomorrow, for sure it would be a disaster, but my kids could still go to school and see their friends in September, not dashing out of the country to another country where Daddy has no job to go to. This will be remembered for years to come.

[Jet II]

So you are sitting on the dole in Brexland and the only people who are recruiting are the ME airlines - are you really saying you would decline?. You are treating the idea like you have a choice, what I am saying is that with the glut of flight crew looking for jobs anyone who is recruiting will have no trouble filling those front 2 seats.

For those looking for their next step after clocking up their hours in the LoCo's then the EK lifestyle will still be very attractive.

[fatbus]

Don't think the EK/ Dubai lifestyle is going to look that attractive for a long time .

[VThokie2]

If I was furloughed in the US and EK was hiring, I would not go back to EK as I would much rather be a WalMart greeter! EK lifestyle? You mean like stumbling around with a constant fatigue induced headache on the few days I’m at base? Again it’s a moot point as the Intra European and US Domestic carriers will recover far faster and will be more resilient compared to the ME megaconnectors.

[paule737]

For no money in the world I would go back to the ME, even if EK or the „unmentionable“ would be the only airlines hiring... I have learned my lesson!

BTW there is more to come... Wait for it :(

[VThokie2]

Something tells me Jet II hasn’t dipped his toe in the sandbox yet!

[The Outlaw]

For no money in the world I would go back to the ME, even if EK or the „unmentionable“ would be the only airlines hiring... I have learned my lesson!

BTW there is more to come... Wait for it :(

I'd second that

[WB1900]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1242x921/ee5327d1_03d3_4243_86e9_edd372dfc0bf_f72f4b168146c442a4e7291 681cc2f87410b1ac1.jpeg

[VThokie2]

I'd second that

Ill 3rd that

[NOFLY7773]

I'll 4th that.

There is no way in hell I'd come back to the 2nd rate archaic airline and city. The money isn't worth the sacrifice, covid 19 will mean the further decline in conditions. I'd sooner fly a kite for free than an aeroplane for these clowns. Good luck to them. I look forward to reading about Dubai going broke from afar. insert middle finger here

[krismiler]

Many years ago, I heard someone say that no one who is happy, goes to the Middle East. There will be plenty of Pilots in debt or supporting ex wives who won’t cut it financially in their home countries, employed by a company they like working for. They need a tax free salary and a company house to be able to meet their financial commitments.

They will still be applying for jobs in the sandpit even if they would rather fly a B757 and live in a regional city in the UK with family and friends nearby.

[aviation_enthus]

[

Wow what a massive generalisation!! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

The groupthink on this site sometimes is mind blowing. I guess it makes you all feel better to have a massive pile on about pilots that dare ‘lower’ themselves to working in the sandpit.

The same c*** was spouted in Australia when the LCC’s appeared. ‘How could you lower yourselves to those T&C’s??’. (Usually said by a captain sitting pretty after 20 years in that airline)

People come here for many reasons, they also stay for many reasons. For starters stop assuming every pilot on earth comes from ‘awesome’ countries like the UK/USA. Plenty of other countries on this planet people don’t actually want to live. Who would have thought huh?!!

I’m not going to defend EK etc but I’m sick and tired of this c*** about how we all basically prostituted ourselves to come here and get a job. I came here for my own reasons, my friends stayed home. Both choices are fine. People make decisions based on the jobs available at the time. No point wasting a career dreaming about a certain job you’re never going to get.

And you can quite happily sit there and wish ‘they’ll get what’s coming to them’ about whatever company you wish. But the sad reality is, no matter what ANY COMPANY does to its staff during this time, when they start hiring again people will make their own decisions based on WHAT WORKS FOR THEM.

[whatsyourbeef]

Well said. :D

[Xiamen]

To get a 1st world pilot to move to the Middle East you need to offer superior QOL and money for the trouble. EK now provides neither in contrast to the previous economic upheavals.

They don’t need first world pilots, just pilots.

[Python27]

Talking about pilots, many colleagues are receiving by this moment emails from the bouncy castle...

[jetstreem]

It seems as if the “more to come” predictions were sadly right. Doesn’t look like there’ll be much of an Airbus fleet left after the end of the week. I was seriously hoping that the cuts were finished. It wasn’t to be.

[VThokie2]

aviation_enthus

No one is blaming the pilots who went / still are there. We have nothing but sympathy for what you all are going through, as most of us were in your shoes. You gain much more perspective though once EK is in the rear view mirror. The discussion in the previous pages was geared towards will EK HR’s handling of this downsizing either help or hurt their future recruitment efforts? I would venture to guess you agree they are not handling it in a stellar manner!

[krismiler]

A redundancy exercise is best done quickly in one clean cut which shortens the pain of those affected and enables those left to move forward with some certainty, dragging it out makes all the employees suffer and low morale affects performance and customer experience.

The fact that more redundancies appear to be coming so soon after the first suggests either:

1. They got the numbers wrong first go.
2. Projections going forward are now worse than the original ones.
3. Circumstances have changed, possibly expected funding won’t now be available or a high level decision has been made to downsize.

With COVID - 19 cases in India and Brazil still climbing exponentially, resurgences being seen in the USA and Australia after lockdowns were eased and delays in allowing travel bubbles from countries such as Thailand, the return of mass air travel in the near term is very unlikely.

Emirates have been caught with the wrong fleet for the current situation, the aircraft are just too big. The neighbouring two can each string some sort of network together using A320s and B787s but EK don’t have that option. The current circumstances could not have been foreseen and the company was simply wrong place/ wrong time.

Going forward, an all B787 fleet comprising the -8/9/10 models could be an option while the airline gradually rebuilds itself.

[SOPS]

Yes another 800 pilots was told today it is their last day.
By email.. or a meeting?

It seems the post I was quoting has been deleted.

I’m now getting messages from friends.. confirming very senior people in EK have been sacked today.

[Jet II]

Something tells me Jet II hasn’t dipped his toe in the sandbox yet!

Is 8 years with EY and EK enough?

[Jet II]

aviation_enthus

well said :D

[Oceanic]

Prior to the Covid-19 downturn, indications were that STC had committed to far big an order for A380 behemoth aircraft, yet was vocal in castigating anyone who questioned his strategy. It was not a question of wrong place/wrong time but an unforgivable blunder for which his workforce are now paying for. He has no credibility left & his legacy at Emirates will be tarnished by his intransigence in the face of an industry who were widely in disagreement with his strategy for air traffic domination. I feel desperately sorry that so many good employees are once again today paying with their livelihoods for his irresponsible gamble.

[VThokie2]

Is 8 years with EY and EK enough?

I guess not enough to realize that EK QOL (if you call it that) is not that attractive, the lucky ones escaped back to those LoCos you speak of. Some are just still blinded by shiney big jet syndrome, you know those people who define themselves by the seat they sit in and the plane they fly (This can be evidenced by the majority of photos they have is in uniform or in front of their current aircraft), calling on company frequency affixing “super” to their callsign when calling for a cabin engineer! Yet others have internalized the EGHQ propaganda that they are the best of the best because they were selected by EK. Ironic because if that were true they would treat you with much more respect! The size of the plane and the exotic layovers are meaningless... it’s all about being at a company that at least pretends to care about you, has stability, protections, schedule flexibility/transparency, a good life/work balance... all things EK does not offer. It speaks volumes when they increased the training bond from 3 to 5 yrs, then imposed a training bond for upgrade. A reputable airline would have no such need as they would make sure there would be no reason to leave.

[777boyindubai]

So. More letters. Another 600 Airbus Pilots. 1200 out of 1930 sacked. Including 8 out of 10 of the highest seniority numbers. Sickness. Lots of kids at school seem to be triggers. Everyone expects job losses but Clark and Co have reached a new low today.

[WB1900]

fantastic to see how they abuse the contractual benefits to make u redundant - it stinks big time
not only that there is no empathy or loyalty which was widely known but blaming you for using a contractual right - it explains what the value of the best is - that even beats the new low - this is a new definition of disgusting

[3Greens]

Seems odd that the ruler of Dubai hasn’t put a block on this. The money circle after all needs to stay in Dubai to make his whole project viable. With a downsizing of this magnitude there’s just no way he can get the tourists and business out to Dubai to spend their money on the malls and hotels. There will be cars, houses, apartments all sitting empty and turning back to sand for a significant number of years. If he’d propped up EK then at least the money would slosh around in the local economy rather than thousands leaving the country.

[exekcabincrew]

How about shrinking EK and the unmentionable for a little M&A in the near future?..

[EchoKilla]

is this 800 pilots confirmed or 800 staff in various ranks it seems as well. you are correct - numerous office staff were also let go

By email.. or a meeting?

It seems the post I was quoting has been deleted.

I’m now getting messages from friends.. confirming very senior people in EK have been sacked today.

[777boyindubai]

840 Flight Deck Crew. Confirmed through various sources. Lots of cabin crew. No clue on numbers. A terrible day. Look at the personal wealth of Ahmed Bin Saeed. His dad was ruler. Propping up EK would have cost him pennies. Tragic

[VThokie2]

Are they being summoned to the Training College tomorrow? I wonder if anyone beyond middle management will have the decency to be present and attempt to show some empathy.

[donpizmeov]

Am not sure it's that high a number. I don't think any 777 pilots, apart from ground instructors received the letter. Anyone know different?

[Joker11]

is this 800 pilots confirmed or 800 staff in various ranks it seems as well. you are correct - numerous office staff were also let go

You guys think it is only pilots and cabin crew? Think again. Dnata is letting staff go left,right and center.

[777boyindubai]

I hope I’m wrong Don and defer to your knowledge. I spoke to three people today. Utterly horrified especially for the Captain who lost his daughter. Another one who did all the exhibition flying too. The number was 600 Airbus and another UAE National source told me 840. It’s terrible news. One of my friends was in tears. He has to remove his kids from JESS. The kids cried all day. The viciousness of AAA, AAR, and Ahmed Bin Saeed knows no bounds. Incidentally, Ahmed the Coward cancelled his interview for tomorrow with Bloomberg. Strange that...

[5star]

indeed, this sums it up...”root cause”, straight from the training sylabus...
Oh yeah, did someone take notice they hedged fuel last year at $55 for more than half the volume for the next 2 years, while crude’s at $40...
Another blunder on the 9th floor which we all slaves now pay cash....
Does anyone remember CM? He made a plan for a total turnaround 3 years back...But he was bullied away by TC...Now where do tey stand.....
Ten thousands (no typo) have been made redundant in Dnata and EK over the past few weeks...
This will not end well......And the impact on Dubai...”nothing to see here, move on..Expo coming...all good”....

[donpizmeov]

I hope I’m wrong Don and defer to your knowledge. I spoke to three people today. Utterly horrified especially for the Captain who lost his daughter. Another one who did all the exhibition flying too. The number was 600 Airbus and another UAE National source told me 840. It’s terrible news. One of my friends was in tears. He has to remove his kids from JESS. The kids cried all day. The viciousness of AAA, AAR, and Ahmed Bin Saeed knows no bounds. Incidentally, Ahmed the Coward cancelled his interview for tomorrow with Bloomberg. Strange that...

Unfortunately I can't be sure. But haven't heard of any 777 pilots apart from the ground instructors. I am sure someone will set that straight if wrong. I totally agree with everything you say. All departments are being decimated at the moment. Many friends have been caught up in this, and it's heartbreaking. Those clowns in the suits that call themselves management have proven to be without testicles.
The letters aren't a reflection on how the person did their job. They are just the badge of being collateral damage, of a soulless company which is reinventing itself. It's a shame the rebirth is under such a dark and foreboding cloud

[shukran]

More rumors of 700+ this coming Sunday, mostly A380.

250 Trainers to remain, as they can fly both seats.

The majority remaining to be locals.

Only 30 A380s total to stay.

Looks like Emiratization is in full effect - much like SAUDIA.

[Fired600]

Not even anything more than a totally impersonal email, destroying your life. A total disgrace, anyone here remaining take heed. You are nothing but a number, you have no value, your loyalty will not be rewarded. You might still be here today, but tomorrow, next week, next month, next year? Who knows for whom the bell tolls next.

Management and leadership are conspicuous in their absence. Safety is but a word in a dictionary.

[Python27]

More rumors of 700+ this coming Sunday, mostly A380.

250 Trainers to remain, as they can fly both seats.

The majority remaining to be locals.

Only 30 A380s total to stay.

Looks like Emiratization is in full effect - much like SAUDIA.

Soon we may expect the same operational level of saudia then...

[fatbus]

Everyone has a rumour and everything thinks they have the gen, fact is no one ever knows all the facts . All I can say is first wave I knew 4-5 TREs (380)+@20 line guys, second wave 15+TREs(380) +@ 10 line guys (380) with numbers increasing hourly . No rationale behind the selection. EK/ME reputation, if they ever did have one, is gone !Period!

[Jet II]

I guess not enough to realize that EK QOL (if you call it that) is not that attractive, the lucky ones escaped back to those LoCos you speak of. Some are just still blinded by shiney big jet syndrome, you know those people who define themselves by the seat they sit in and the plane they fly (This can be evidenced by the majority of photos they have is in uniform or in front of their current aircraft), calling on company frequency affixing “super” to their callsign when calling for a cabin engineer! Yet others have internalized the EGHQ propaganda that they are the best of the best because they were selected by EK. Ironic because if that were true they would treat you with much more respect! The size of the plane and the exotic layovers are meaningless... it’s all about being at a company that at least pretends to care about you, has stability, protections, schedule flexibility/transparency, a good life/work balance... all things EK does not offer. It speaks volumes when they increased the training bond from 3 to 5 yrs, then imposed a training bond for upgrade. A reputable airline would have no such need as they would make sure there would be no reason to leave.

I get that you realise that you made a mistake coming to the sandpit but lets leave this discussion here and come back in 5 years and see if EK are having any problems attracting candidates for pilot vacancies - I cant see it, but if you are correct and nobody will come I'll donate $50 to the charity of your choice.

[Jet II]

More rumors of 700+ this coming Sunday, mostly A380.

250 Trainers to remain, as they can fly both seats.

The majority remaining to be locals.

Only 30 A380s total to stay.

Looks like Emiratization is in full effect - much like SAUDIA.

Emiratization always was the plan from day 1 - the current crisis has just advanced the timescale. Whether they can avoid the sort of GF style debacle that we saw when they tried it is the question - personally given the calibre of some of those involved I doubt it very much.

[nolimitholdem]

A once-in-a-century (hopefully?) global catastrophe was always going to have outsized consequences. A bit of perspective? The three months notice pay of an EK captain is more than most on the planet make in years.

EK's actions?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/430x241/5174583_662db3eee636a22c9fbb211100264814fd645e4b.jpg

Which is why, I reiterate, no one would shed a tear if they imploded completely. The company itself is as virulent as Covid-19.

[a350xwbdriver]

Totally agree...

[VThokie2]

I get that you realise that you made a mistake coming to the sandpit but lets leave this discussion here and come back in 5 years and see if EK are having any problems attracting candidates for pilot vacancies - I cant see it, but if you are correct and nobody will come I'll donate $50 to the charity of your choice.

I did not make any mistake, I put my time in, enjoyed the positives, both buckets filled up and when things got bad I left. I got what I wanted out of EK, and EK got what they wanted out of me. That in no way diminishes my disgust for the organization! If you are still there I truly and sincerely wish you the best, my diverse colleagues I shared the flight deck with is the one thing I miss, but realize problems in recruitment is the ONLY way your T+Cs will likely be restored, so it’s something you should be actively hoping for.

[Airbubba]

The July 7 EK pilot letter:

Ref: *****/******
07 July 2020
***** *****
CAPTAIN
(AIRBUS)

Dear ******,

As you are aware, COVID-19 has had a severe impact on the global economy across all
sectors including our industry. Every business has had to re-examine its processes and
resources to match the operational and support requirement in the months ahead.

Following a review of resource requirements across all areas and in line with our business
operations, I regret to inform you that your position is being made redundant.

This means that your employment with the Company will cease by reason of redundancy, with
notice effective 12 th July 2020.

Notice Period Your contractual notice period is 90 calendar days. As part of this process you
will be notified by your line manager whether you are required to work all or part of your notice
period. You will receive your contractual basic salary and fixed allowances applicable to your
grade and position until your last day of service (LDS).

Your LDS will be 10 th October 2020.

There is no right of appeal against this redundancy decision.

Sponsorship and Visa Your Company sponsorship and residence visa will normally be
cancelled from your LDS. Following your visa cancellation there is a 29 day ‘grace period’
during which you may remain in the country, subject to any change in the Immigration laws of
the UAE.

Should you be unable to repatriate due to travel restrictions, your visa will be extended beyond
your LDS.

During the extended period, which will be reviewed regularly, you will be permitted to remain in
your company provided accommodation or you will continue to receive the monthly
accommodation allowance. For the same extended period a discretionary payment equivalent
to 25% of your contractual basic salary will be made to you whilst in the UAE. No other
allowances will be paid.

This discretionary payment will cease at the time of visa cancellation.

Medical Insurance The existing Company provided medical insurance for you and your
registered eligible dependants, will cease on your LDS.

If your visa has been extended beyond the LDS, you will be provided with category E company
medical coverage (including emergency/life threatening cover), for you and your registered
eligible dependants, at a designated hospital for the period of your visa extension and 29 day
grace period only. This will be effective from your LDS. The company will bear the cost of your
premium. The premiums for your registered eligible dependants will be recovered from your end
of service payment.

Final Settlement Option You will receive any outstanding remuneration, the value of your
unused annual leave, and End of Service Benefit or Provident Scheme benefits (as applicable)
as at your LDS. If your visa is extended, your final settlement will not normally be released until
your visa is cancelled. You may however request 50% of your final settlement to be released
following your LDS, subject to the conditions set out in the Termination of Contract of
Employment Policy, in the Dubai Employment Regulations Manual D1-1.

Support We understand you may have questions therefore please refer to the HR Frequently
Asked Questions (FAQ) which will be available on Group World. Alternatively, you can call the
HR Call Centre on 800 44525 (between 0900 and 1700 Sunday to Thursday) or email
[email protected] .

If you require additional support you can contact our Employee Assistance Programme (EAP)
on 04 7081200 (available 24/7) or email [email protected] .

May I take this opportunity to thank you for your service to the Company and wish you well for
your future. [And don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out etc. :(]

Yours sincerely,
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/140x142/ali_2_fdac1756f7962201071aa95a6ccac8df0bbe9d27.jpg
Abdulaziz Al Ali Executive Vice President – Human Resources

P.O.Box 686. Dubai. United Arab Emirates Tel: +971 4 708 1111 emirates.com emirates.com

[FatPilot]

EK/ME reputation, if they ever did have one, is gone !Period!
They had a reputation with pax for a wide route network, lots of movie channels, lots of free drinks and you're allowed to bully and abuse the cabin crew without fear of repercussion. The pax will come back readily when travel opens up again. None of them will give a sh!t about what happened to a bunch of overpaid pilots a year or two ago.

They had a reputation amongst pilots as a place where you could get paid better than the 3rd world, upgraded quicker than the first world and fly shiny new jets. New pilots won't give a rat's ass what happened to the current lot. They will still fill the ranks on whatever half-rate deal the leaders come up with and as time goes by they'll lament the "good old days" of 2021 2022, or so. Eventually one of them will crash something somewhere.

[Fired600]

Just a casual email destroying a life? Is this really what they have sunk to?

[Airbubba]

The EK Flight Ops email cover letter:

From: Fleet Management <[email protected]>
Date: 8 July 2020 at 10:52:17 GMT
To: Capt ************ <******.*****@emirates.com>

Subject: Important: Group Resources Review

CONFIDENTIAL

Dear *******,

As you know, the COVID-19 pandemic continues to have an unprecedented impact on businesses and economies around the world. The impact on the travel industry has been particularly severe and whilst we have already taken measures to control costs, it has become inevitable that we need to reduce our resources in line with business requirements.

Following a review of all areas across the group, I regret to inform you that your role has been made redundant. This has been a difficult decision for us and we want to assure you that we will manage this situation in a supportive and respectful manner.

Please see the attached letter confirming the redundancy of your role. We have also posted FAQ’s on Group World for further clarification (please find the link below). Details of our EAP support line and our HR Hotline are included in the letter. You will be assigned an EOS co-ordinator who will contact you to support you through the EOS processes.

Please be mindful that you are required to adhere to Emirates Group policies during your notice period. This includes strict policies against downloading Company information and data onto personal devices. If you have any questions about this, please contact your HR Business Partner or line manager.

We thank you for your understanding and assure you of our support through this transition.

http://gw.groupworld.emirates.com/gw/our_company/confidential/HR_FAQs_June2020.pdf

Kind regards,


Captain Hassan Al Hammadi

DSVP Flight Operations | Emirates
P.O. Box 686 | Dubai | United Arab Emirates
T +971 4 708 4230 | emirates.com (http://www.emirates.com/)

[NOFLY7773]

The EK Flight Ops email cover letter:

I at least got a little respect and dignity of a meeting. To do this via email is disgusting. Shows the true depth of the fact they do not value their staff at all. Shame on them. I hope it bites them hard. 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[armchairpilot94116]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503511/United-Airlines-furlough-36-000-employees-October-1-5-billion-COVID-19-aid-ends.html

When the government money runs out.....other airlines are going to be just as ruthless.

[Monarch Man]

I genuinely hope that those who have had a little more breathing space before getting chopped have taken as many steps as possible to financially disengage from the UAE.
I can’t emphasise enough how important it is to not have any amount outstanding or being considered liable for.
Don’t think for one second that your once friendly bank manager won’t invoke the various archaic UAE banking laws to protect themselves but throw you and potentially your family under the proverbial White Nissan Patrol.

[EchoKilla]

good ol Capn HAH hahahahaha.......

The EK Flight Ops email cover letter:

[pettycashblings]

Don't think there is 700plus left?

[ekpilot]

No need to create even more uncertainty. That rumor was out early last week and the 'Sunday' in question was July 5.

[krismiler]

The time needs to be blanked out on the letter quoted in post #478 as it gives the exact time, to the second when it was sent out ,and is therefore easy to trace back to the person it was sent to.

[Eric Janson]

The time needs to be blanked out on the letter quoted in post #478 as it gives the exact time, to the second when it was sent out ,and is therefore easy to trace back to the person it was sent to.

What are they going to do - fire the individual?

[FatPilot]

Yes because they'd love to take his EOSB.

[nervous_novice]

More emails going out today apparently?

[Jet II]

You dont get EOSB because you have Provident Fund. I suppose they could sack you immediately so that you dont get your final 3 months pay, but I suspect there are somewhat more important things going on.

[Fired600]

That depends on if the EOSB or the Provident fund is higher. You get the higher of the two.

[Adam Barfy]

They can withhold their contribution to the Provident Fund if you are fired. Only your contributions are guaranteed.

[VThokie2]

Slight correction....You get the higher of the two, and if I remember correctly you are not “fully vested” in the provident fund for the company contribution until your 7 year mark. Up until the 5 yr mark usually your EOSB entitlement is usually larger then what you get from the vested company contributions to the PF.

[Jet II]

They can withhold their contribution to the Provident Fund if you are fired. Only your contributions are guaranteed.

fair point

[Fired600]

I think the BIG picture here is that we all knew that there would have to be redundancies. Well are all adults and all realised the writing was on the wall. The problem is that we expected it to be done fairly, with transparency and with care, accessing the options and giving the pilot body some choices in the matter.

The problem is that they have just enacted some slash and burn policy with no regard to individuals livelihoods, dedication or ability. We would all expect people who called sick every Thursday and Friday to be in the firing line, they would have as well. We would all expect the ‘troublemakers’ to be in the firing line, they would have as well. We would all expect the poor performers with multiple simulator, line check problems to be in the firing line, they would as well.

We didn’t expect the total opposite where individuals appear to have been fired on the basis of medical operations, picking on the weakest who have fought back to be entirely productive again. People who had faultless records tossed away like old rags where people with poor performance are kept. People with many years of dedicated service and mountains of experience thrown to the floor where those with little experience are still employed.

Had this been done in a fare and transparent manner people would still have been angry and annoyed but they would have understood. The remaining pilots would have had some feeling of justice in a system that valued them and they would have continued to operate knowing they were valued members of the team. Stress levels and safety would have been upheld and the rest of the world would have looked on and also understood realising that in tough times that Emirates was at least fare.

Now the remaining pilots live in fear. The dread the ping of a new email, just in case its the sound of the axe falling on them this time. Fear and stress levels are at an all time high and the dedication and loyalty of the remaining few is at an all time low.

The heart of the company has been ripped out and destroyed. The image of the company within the worldwide pilot body has been destroyed, only the desperate would willingly come here in the future now, for fear of their own future. Safety is number one, how can this be safe, a rudderless ship, no management willing to take the helm and lead. Leadership is a skill that is obviously sorely lacking. Respect is earned and goes both ways, once lost it is next to impossible to regain. Respect has obviously been totally lost.

When the industry comes back in the next few years, Emirates will have an uphill struggle with hiring and maintaining a quality workforce. I would wish them luck, but actually I dont. My respect for them has melted faster that a snowball in the July sun.

[pumpkin]

They can withhold their contribution to the Provident Fund if you are fired. Only your contributions are guaranteed.
It is not easy for Ek to do that. I consulted Nick Foxton as well as the trustees representative a few years back regarding this issue. The trustees would need evidence that you had done something quite dire such as stealing from the company or murder etc. Redundancy or even being fired for an error etc would not qualify. They certainly would not believe Emirates that 700+pilots were
stealing from the company. Your money is offshore and managed by trustees. This was the case 4
years ago - I don’t think it has changed (?).

[Airbubba]

The time needs to be blanked out on the letter quoted in post #478 as it gives the exact time, to the second when it was sent out ,and is therefore easy to trace back to the person it was sent to.

Good thinking but already covered, the exact time is fictitious in my post.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Asking for a friend in Dubai but in another industry: what happens to the redundant/visa-less individual who has a mortgage in the UAE? Any restrictions on outbound movement?

[I love twins]

For those who have been in the company less than 7 years and 3 months and are concerned about entitlement to the provident fund then the good news is that you are due all A/B/C contributions that have been made.

We have been made redundant and have not been fired. If you check the fund FAQs then it will confirm your eligibility to all contributions on that basis. I also have email confirmation from Willis Towers Watson confirming the same.

I’d imagine for most of us the provident fund is larger than eosb. However, as has been mentioned above, you’re entitled to the larger of either eosb or A fund, plus your B and C contributions.

The fund is still held overseas in the Isle of Man.

With regards to leaving the country with outstanding mortgage, this is possible. You are able to buy property in the UAE without being resident.
Clearly if you default on the mortgage then the bank will look to repossess.

If you have salary guarantee letter then the bank will look to offset your end of service against existing liabilities such as loan and credit card. I am not sure on their handling of mortgage debt at that juncture but suspect it would not apply as a salary guarantee is not needed to acquire a mortgage.

Good luck to all.

[pettycashblings]

Where have you been for the last few years? You have only just worked this all out today? Thanks for info. It was hot again today too

[nervous_novice]

I think it’s entirely possible that EK will survive and continue to grow. The world wide pilot community doesn’t care what happens here. Soon as they start hiring, people will come.

[EchoKilla]

COO AAR just had interview with Bloomberg and does state that "60-70% of A380s back in the air by December" and will keep all "115 A380s" and more "closer back office work with little bro FZ" Some excerpts:

Long-Haul Slump

Emirates, the world’s largest long-haul airline, has been hard hit by the unprecedented slump in travel caused by the coronavirus. It’s already had to rethink plans for the double-decker A380, a mainstay of its fleet, after a dearth of demand elsewhere led Airbus SE to decline to upgrade the jet and then to terminate the program early.

The Gulf carrier, also the biggest customer for the Airbus super-jumbo, plans to take the delivery of three A380s during the fiscal year ending in March, Al Redha said. While the delivery schedule for the last five planes remains unchanged, “if the need comes to re-visit, obviously we will do that.”

The COO expects 60 per cent to 70 per cent of the current A380 fleet to be back in the air by December. Load factor now exceeds 55 per cent and demand for both economy and premium travelers has strengthened, he said. The airline plans to keep all 115 of the double-decker jets.

The Dubai-based carrier will roll out premium economy seats on its newest A380 aircraft slated to be delivered in November, Al Redha said. Some of the existing fleet will be retrofitted from economy to premium economy.

Two Brands

Emirates Group is also undergoing a strategy rethink as it looking for ways to streamline operations and increase efficiencies, Al Redha said. One of the possibilities that is being considered is combining the back office operations of Emirates with discounter Flydubai, while maintaining two separate companies and identities. Both carriers are owned by Dubai’s government.

“There is definitely a scope having to look at how we can reduce the expenses and become more efficient in certain areas, even if requires combining some back office activities,” Al Redha said. , adding that the re-examination is being done for all the companies within the group, including ground-handling and catering arm Dnata.

Emirates and Flydubai have deepened their ties since 2017, embracing route rationalization to minimize duplication.

[3Greens]

hows he planning on flying those 380s with only a few hundred pilots on type remaining?
also, I hear you have to take a COVID swan&nasal test prior to entering Dubai? There’s no way I’d take my young children there is they are subject to, what is, a very unpleasant procedure. Are children exempt?

[pettycashblings]

I concur nervous

[pettycashblings]

aussie lads be back first I recon . no opportunities at all for them at home .

[TBSC]

Just look at what's happening at Wizz. The company fired 20% of its crew (~1000 pilots and cabin crew members) only 3 months ago in the exact same manner (or lack of...) done by ex-EK managers yet no one cares (or remember?) and the people are even writing grateful comments on LinkedIn that they are hiring for Wizz Air Abu Dhabi now for peanuts. There will be no shortage of applicants at Emirates once they start hiring again.

[Nick 1]

Very sad indeed , people just kiked out like garbage posting how lucky they where to work for the company ,
this is the attitude that destroied our industry , they don't understand the meaning of professional work ,
the salary is not a gift from the Holy manegement , but don't worry in 2/3 they wiil be senior too and ready to be washed out for a new cycle .

[777boyindubai]

Ahmed bin Saeed was supposed to be interviewed by Bloomberg. He cancelled yesterday and put up AAR instead. The Ruling family hate to lose face. Hence Ahmed’s unavailability. Not sure how he can keep all the 380s when he chopped 1200 Airbus Pilots.

Some very questionable people like a European lady who struggled to make Captain and was then demoted and only just passed again were kept.

Much better people with a small amount of sickness were binned.

it was done on cost. Not quality.

Look after each other. It will be a bumpy ride ahead.

[CM1320]

ECHOKILLER - Piss poor tasteless stressful factually devoid alarmist post. Why don't you be a good boy/girl and remove it.

The author is sooooooo full of credibility. Not
Boy oh boy, was the author correct Rexy?

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Boy oh boy, was the author correct Rexy?

It was a senseless,insensitive post, produced by a disgruntled ex EK cabin crew posted as truth, and not as a statement from EK. So yes I stand by by statement. And if you want to be pedantic, 40 percent cull has not been achieved, but it is irrelevant, at the time, everyone could have predicted redundancy’s. I would have been more impressed if he’d said how heartless and impartial, Ek management was going to be in the execution of the redundancies.