Flybe in trouble ?

[Livesinafield]

If your "research" comes from the Times, then I think we are done here.....

The same paper suggested they fix the problems by simply raising prices...if only it was that simple.

[Schoenheit]

I can also research your previous posts and see that you fly fixed wing aircraft and are familiar with operations on a Q400 while frequenting a primarily UK-centric forum.

[Livesinafield]

I can also research your previous posts and see that you fly fixed wing aircraft and are familiar with operations on a Q400 while frequenting a primarily UK-centric forum.

Was that in the Times too??

[Schoenheit]

It is strange to see you speak so authoritatively on the topic of FlyBE's finances considering you spend your time in a cockpit, not a boardroom.
I question your motivations for contributing to the discussion.

[Wickerbill]

Other than deferment of tax / money owed, I am not sure flybe has seen much in the way of new cash recently. This article today suggests their whole creditor ledger is suffering
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/85694-uks-flybe-in-talks-with-airports-over-unpaid-fees?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=linkedin

'bill

[Schoenheit]

They will continue to run the airline if someone(i.e. Government/Taxpayers) makes it "worth their while" otherwise they'll extract what they can from it and walk away. I can only assume that the only companies they are in any way square with are the Lessors as they can repossess their assets and they are highly mobile.
I'm not trying to start rumours but the one thing I'd like to hear from those within FlyBE is that maintenance isn't being skimped while the company is being put through the wringer. I'm not saying that maintenance is being skimped but it would just be nice to hear it as the Management appear to be playing fast and loose with absolutely everything else.

[pilot9250]

Sorry WCF, I disagree. If they can’t turn a profit now then taking the tax element off the ticket will not make the company anymore profitable. Even if that ticket is more attractive, the total below the line stays the same.

It's an indirect loan.

if they increase the fare by half the APD removed and make a profit then they survive.

This gives them time to reorganise and also informs public policy. Do we prefer to subsidise the PSO or adjust APD and leave it private.

I could try to pull the financials and look if that's possible, but given how long they have been in distress without folding the hole on the price of the tickets can't be that large.

[VH DSJ]

Anyone know what's happening with FlyBe's E195s stored in Norwich at the moment?

[Livesinafield]

The 195s are all going back to lessor, last one finished flying a few days ago, so are being stored until new owners

[double_barrel]

I've just been booked on Flybe MAN-EDI in a couple of weeks. I thought they had stopped operating?

I confess I just added to their problems. I cancelled that booking and travelled to Edinburgh by train instead. Same price, 1st class rail travel, arrive at the station 10 minutes before departure, walk straight to a taxi on arrival, no security, no standing in line, less total travel time, free bacon butty, stations at both ends more conveniently placed than airports, wifi all the way so almost no time lost. Sadly, domestic travel between hubs also served by rail is always going to be a difficult business model for an airline.

[cats_five]

I confess I just added to their problems. I cancelled that booking and travelled to Edinburgh by train instead. Same price, 1st class rail travel, arrive at the station 10 minutes before departure, walk straight to a taxi on arrival, no security, no standing in line, less total travel time, free bacon butty, stations at both ends more conveniently placed than airports, wifi all the way so almost no time lost. Sadly, domestic travel between hubs also served by rail is always going to be a difficult business model for an airline.

Depends. If I want to go to a meeting in Bletchley it's not possible by train - I would arrive just in time to get the train back home. Ditto Birmingham. But Manchester is that bit closer to Edinburgh, and the only way to do a day in London by train is using the sleeper.

[Captain-Random]

https://news.sky.com/story/regional-airline-flybe-in-last-ditch-talks-to-avert-collapse-11949393

[touch&go]

Not good prospects and feel for the staff but Richard Brandon should put his hand in his pocket and fund his company not the uk tax payers, he stole the company from its share holders, he is no hero just a shark.

This is based on his past business record.

[crewmeal]

BBC's take on this

BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51733405)

[WB627]

I listened to PMQ's today and heard Boris Johnson say that the government would do all that was necessary to suport people and business's in the face of the coronavirus. ROFLMA :hmm:

BUT, it would appear that he is about to renege on the deal he has just done with the EU over BREXIT, so I doubt if he would have any qualms about throwing Flybe under the preverbal bus :mad:

[virginblue]

Hmmmm - any of this true or just folks stirring the pot?

https://twitter.com/danwnews/status/1235280243004510209?s=20

https://twitter.com/MarkKleinmanSky/status/1235279608804773889?s=20

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1235252701488910339?s=20

[diffident]

It will be an absolute travesty if the airline is allowed to collapse. Granted it has had financial difficulties, but the recent purchase by a group involving Branson should really be picking up the tab here and investing as they promised they would. The domestic flight network in the UK will be decimated.

Back in January, Ryanair and Easyjet were saying they would pick up "some" routes, but I can see that as only being the most profitable, and no where near the current network, such as Birmingham - Aberdeen for example.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

My thoughts are with the staff and their families. It's an awful situation but not their fault.

If the very worst happens, the crews are well trained and highly regarded in the industry. New doors will open and the low cash season is behind us.

Hoping for the best outcome for all at FlyBe.

[davidjpowell]

My thoughts are with the staff and their families. It's an awful situation but not their fault.

If the very worst happens, the crews are well trained and highly regarded in the industry. New doors will open and the low cash season is behind us.

Hoping for the best outcome for all at FlyBe.

My best wishes for the pilots. Sadly I think the low cash season will be very much extended this year.

[diffident]

Pretty reputable source:

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1235303503863652353

[Denti]

If the very worst happens, the crews are well trained and highly regarded in the industry. New doors will open and the low cash season is behind us.


In the current climate? Unlikely. I really wish them all the best, but realistically we are currently in the climate of folding businesses and even the majors are cancelling high percentages of their flights putting a lot of stress on their balance sheets.

[tubby linton]

Standby for a debt free phoenix to arise from the ashes in a few weeks.

[Richard Dangle]

^^ I see what you are getting at, but harder for airlines to do than other outfits, when all their hardware has been impounded no?

[tubby linton]

With the current downturn launching a new airline to fill the gap will be easy with lots of cheap crew and aircraft available. The continuation of the company was certainly looking rocky but now the old board can blame a dastardly Chinese virus on why they cannot pay the company debts.

[LGW Vulture]

Flights still taking off from elsewhere. Miscommunication with refuellers at GLA is the rumour. Perhaps they've closed the credit line.

[LGW Vulture]

Announcement to be made when last aircraft lands.

Looks like it really is all over.

[flyerguy]

The Flybe website still seems to be accepting bookings for tomorrow. Perhaps it's not all over?

so was monarch and Thomas cook so don’t look into it

[diffident]

The Flybe website still seems to be accepting bookings for tomorrow. Perhaps it's not all over?

Business continues in any industry until the very last second. Who knows whether right now there is an 11th hour effort to save the business?? If there is and the company had already shut down its sales operations, it would be a bit silly!

On this occasion, I sadly don't think there is any 11th hour brokering going on.

[Eutychus]

BE2111 Edinburgh to Heathrow the last flight? (in the air now)

[ReturningVector]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x1600/531_c945_b_5_a0_e_45_aa_9_f9_f_936_f5_d1_e87_f5_40386fcde660 114dff2c9787d8dfef5b7052c7d2.jpg
Well, it certainly looks like this is it.

[air bubble]

Airline Flybe is set to collapse within hours, putting 2,000 jobs at risk after a bid for fresh financial support failed, the BBC has learned.

The struggling carrier narrowly avoided going bust in January.

Exeter-based Flybe said the impact of the coronavirus outbreak on demand for air travel was partly to blame.

Its final airborne flights are expected to touch down at airports across the UK late on Wednesday evening.

Flybe, which serves far flung parts of the UK including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, and the UK regions had been hoping for a £100m lifeline and changes to Air Passenger Duty taxes.

The carrier ran into difficulties last year and was bought by a consortium which includes Virgin Atlantic.

In January, the new owners said they would pump £30m into the business to keep it afloat, but appealed to the government for additional support.

While its financial problems were already apparent, a company insider told the BBC the impact of the coronavirus on the travel industry had "made a bad situation much worse".

Virgin said this week its chief executive will take a 20% pay cut for four months, and the airline is freezing recruitment and offering employees unpaid leave as the coronavirus saps demand for air travel.

Bookings are 40% lower than a year ago, Virgin added.

[Falling_Penguin]

It is a Public Notice...

[ropetow]

BE2111 Edinburgh to Heathrow the last flight? (in the air now)


Manchester to Exeter estimated to land 2 mins after BE2111 to Heathrow

[Eutychus]

Manchester to Exeter estimated to land 2 mins after BE2111 to Heathrow
I suppose that's fitting somehow.

[Mister Geezer]

Whilst it will be a horrible experience for all Flybe employees, my heart goes out to the BE2111 crew who would be nightstopping at LHR.

A night sleeping in the terminal and make your own way home? 😥

[READY MESSAGE]

The FlyBe website is no longer active

[fv24]

The FlyBe website is no longer active
Strangely enough, the phone app is still active (at 2255).

[offload]

Years of mismanagement by the board, past and present, dithering on fleet issues and under-recruitment of crew causing daily operational stress
Shame on them
Probably sleeping easy though

[22/04]

A very sad end and perhaps and end to large scale domestic flying. To all those taking a pop at Mr Branson at least they had a go ... arguably in different times.

British Airways decided there was nothing in this business years ago. Dr Beeching did the same for Rail decades ago to some extent. Perhaps the only way to make money out of regional connectivity is connecting the regions to London.

[KelvinD]

I heard a news report today saying that the money promised by the government to help Flybe out was not going to be paid now. The reason given was that this aid was to be in the form of relief on APD and someone has just realised that any adjustments, suspensions etc to APD is not allowed due to EU rules. Would that be the same EU that we are led to believe we no longer belong to?

[22/04]

We have to abide by the rules (and pay our dues) during transition. That said it might have been worth a punt to make the payment and see what would happen.

[poppiholla]

Announcement to be made when last aircraft lands.

Looks like it really is all over.


last flight of the day just landed at Aberdeen (on FR24)

Much respect to the Crews and the staff at Ops control.

[Iwillhavethefish]

The blue island website, a franchise of Flybe, has confirm that Flybe has closed.
All the best to the great staff.

[Mister Geezer]

Good to see Blue Islands have made a statement on their website, stating that it will be business as usual for them and flights that would have been operated under the franchise, will still operate.

I suspect Eastern will do the same.

I guess there will be some financial impact to both airlines?

[flyerguy]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/e3c892b6_9b37_4701_b263_9be0c7b84d2a_2dfd4ee56ff8eaef23f2a36 9b4dfebf9471d100e.png

[marchino61]

It's going to be awkward for Eastern. They used to use Flybe to book, so it is no longer possible to book flights. How long will it take them to get their own booking system up?

[flyerguy]

It's going to be awkward for Eastern. They used to use Flybe to book, so it is no longer possible to book flights. How long will it take them to get their own booking system up?

Blue Islands the same. Blue islands have said that there booking systems will be up by Monday, but until then people can rock up at the airport with an £50 charge for booking seats at the airport

[Ollie Onion]

As an ex-Flybe-er good luck to the great guys and ladies today. Management of this company has always been a joke but you could never fault the 'coal face' staff who were great to work with and kept the whole show on the road through some very difficult times. All the best.

[babybaby]

It’s bad enough at the best of times but dreadful timing with other airlines halting recruitment and I really hope news that their pensions might be at risk as their scheme is based on IOM is unfounded. The Pension Protection Fund is not as great as it sounds but is better than nothing. That really would be a galling prospect on top of that already inflicted.

Heart goes out to those at flybe.

[RexBanner]

Utterly devastated, feels personal to me, like a solid punch to the gut. The airline that gave me a start in my aviation career and to boot it was a local one. Best wishes to those ex colleagues who were still there at the end it’s a horrible time at the moment, can’t imagine what they’re going through.

[Parson]

Thoughts with flybe staff. Have used them for 30 years - very sad. This isn't just another airline going bust - could have significant consequences for a handful of regional airports as well. And will no doubt lead to in depth debate on regional travel in general.

[Eutychus]

What happens to Flybe routes operated by Stobart Air?

[gtaflyer]

You started and realised my dreams Flybe, salute your beginnings as Jersey European, then British European, then Fly British European then finally shortened name Fly.B.E.

[topgas]

BBC reporting that EasyJet will take Flybe passengers fo £65 on comparable routes, and will fly Flybe staff home for free today and tomorrow

[Rat Catcher]

Very sad news, my thoughts are with all the Flybe colleagues

[golfyankeesierra]

I heard a news report today saying that the money promised by the government to help Flybe out was not going to be paid now. The reason given was that this aid was to be in the form of relief on APD and someone has just realised that any adjustments, suspensions etc to APD is not allowed due to EU rules. Would that be the same EU that we are led to believe we no longer belong to?
If it wasn't so sad, it would have been funny that you try to blame this one on the EU.
I guess it has nothing to do with both IAG and Ryanair objecting to financial support?
Ryanair's O'Leary lambasts the Government for Flybe rescue (https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-8031651/Michael-O-Leary-lambasts-Government-Flybe-rescue.html)
IAG boss condemns Flybe rescue deal (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/flybe-latest-collapse-government-rescue-route-network-flight-tax-a9284046.html)

[Twitter]

Good luck to all. Flew on you in the Bern Southampton days.

Seems, that in more ways than one, the covid virus hits the already ailing

[Auxtank]

Very sad. Best of Good Luck to employees - one and all.
Thanks to easyjet for the offer to repatriate stranded employees abroad.

[Semreh]

It’s bad enough at the best of times but dreadful timing with other airlines halting recruitment and I really hope news that their pensions might be at risk as their scheme is based on IOM is unfounded. The Pension Protection Fund is not as great as it sounds but is better than nothing. That really would be a galling prospect on top of that already inflicted.

Heart goes out to those at flybe.

The only information I can find on the pension scheme is this report in The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/02/02/flybe-pensioners-risk-losing-virgin-takeover-bid-fails/

...scheme members are not entitled to payments from the 
Pension Protection Fund (PPF) in the event of an insolvency [because Flybe’s pension fund is registered in the Isle of Man, rather than the UK]. Flybe had a £11.6m pension shortfall in November 2018.

According to a breakdown at 
the airline’s previous year-end, the fund has £170m of retirement liabilities.

This should not mean that the pension fund has no assets. Pension funds are periodically valued using a standard method, which makes assumptions about the return on the assets, and how much will need to be paid out (which depends on predictions of life expectancy). Under those assumptions, at the valuation reported, there is a shortfall of £11.6m, which is roughly 7% of the liabilities. It is, of course, more complicated than that, but at first sight*, it does not appear to be catastrophic - but certainly disappointing.

It may be that I have misunderstood the system, as The Telegraph's reporting seems to be incorrect - my understanding is that the Flybe pensioners as a group are not 'risking losing all', but some could get substantially less than they expect.

It is a bad situation for those who have paid into the pension scheme, and I hope the outcome is not as bad as some have painted.

*In the event of a shortfall in a scheme where the company cannot put in more money as a result of bankruptcy, there is a pecking order for who gets money in UK-based pension schemes. The IOM might be different.

[Islandlad]

BBC reporting that EasyJet will take Flybe passengers fo £65 on comparable routes, and will fly Flybe staff home for free today and tomorrow
And so it begins :E I'm sure they have a few spare seats. They were never going to sell those seats. And it gets them on the news. Clever move.

A cynical view maybe?

[ShortfinalFred]

Appalling news. Thoughts with all the employees, also those working for Exeter, Newquay and Southampton airports. At a guess, none of them are viable without Flybe, possibly more throughout their former network.

[hard_landing]

I wonder if Stobart will take up the more profitable routes? When BMI Regional went Loganair, which was owned by the same group took over some of the routes/aircraft/staff.

Fingers crossed for everyone affected.

[Callsign Kilo]

I wonder if Stobart will take up the more profitable routes? When BMI Regional went Loganair, which was owned by the same group took over some of the routes/aircraft/staff.

Flybe certainly operated numerous profitable routes however I think the difficulty will be obtaining both aircraft and crew, more so the former. The Q400 was plagued with issues and became a bit of a thorn. Comparative to say, an ATR, it's operating costs are higher. It would be a brave airline who takes on those aircraft in the current climate. Crew wise, I doubt any airline would thnik twice about employing ex-Flybe guys. I've flown with many, they've a pretty high standard.

[old,not bold]

Very sad day for all in Flybe to say nothing of everyone else who is affected by Flybe's demise. It's a sorry outcome to those optimistic days when we persuaded Jack Walker to base his 2 new acquisitions at Exeter as the embryo of a new regional airline.

The extraordinarily difficult environment over the last few years, culminating in the coronavirus scare, has played a part in the downfall of a good airline.

But no-one should be in any doubt that the blame lies fair and square with a succession of CEO's and their desire to grow their little empire and importance (and remuneration), regardless of the lack of a business case for what they did and the acquisitions they made. One by one they came, failed through incompetence, and departed with outrageous, unearned payoffs. And then the Branson/Stobart takeover. Did no-one look into what they were getting? If they had they would have known that £30m would do little to restore profitability. Was the plan to get it cheap, and then plead "national interest" to get the £100m++ it really needed. We'll never know; all those who made these decisions are away to spend the money they took out of the company.

This is how things are done in our brave new Britain; we mustn't complain.

Let's hope that the maintenance and/or training can be spun off/sold as going concerns, but I suspect that no-one in the airline or the receiver has the nous and ability to make that happen, and I don't know how profitable they would be without the airline operation.

[iainp]

According to local news in Edinburgh:

Loganair is taking over 16 routes operated by airline Flybe including Edinburgh to Cardiff, Exeter, Manchester, Newquay and Southampton.
It's also looking to recruit Flybe staff.

👍🏻

[bean]

Fascinated to know where the aircraft are coming from, but still a drop in the ocean for Sou

[Uplinker]

First Monarch, then Thomas Cook, now Flybe.

I don't know if it is due to poor management, CEOs stealing money in the form of bonuses, poor internet integration, poor government, lack of advertising, or something else.

Whatever the cause, it is an absolute disgrace.

My sincere sympathies to all in Flybe - some of whom are former colleagues. Keep your chins up and good luck.

Uplinker

[bean]

Uplinker
Read the reports and accounts from 2010 onwards on flybeplc.com.
I reiterate what i've said before. Jim French has a lot to amswer for, for his wildly ambitious expansion plans which led to the airline becomimg destitute very rapidly.
I take mo pleasure in sayimg this. I kmew Jack Walker and quite a few crew from the Jersey basr whi h was closed in 2014.
I'm gutted by whats happened and wish all those affected the very bedt of luck
I,
'

[NutLoose]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-hampshire-51752952/collapsed-flybe-southampton-pilot-blames-bad-management-for-collapse

[bean]

Very reasoned response from the Captain considering the news he'd just been given

[Jetscream 32]

Fascinated to know where the aircraft are coming from, but still a drop in the ocean for Sou
Also, a very brave move when everyone is cutting capacity due to Covid-19 and appears to be little or no containment in the spread currently. The market still has further to fall before it recovers - making those kinds of commitments to fixed costs of recruitment and integration and possibly additional aircraft either ACMI or dry leased they are either clever or stupid.... I can't work out which it is yet!

Whilst it is a horrendous time currently for Flybe staff - I'd be more focused on conserving existing cash in the face of the current air travel turmoil and not announcing routes to get people excited and win publicity for the sake of it. Someone is going to look a right tit if the market continues to plummet and even Loganair start feeling it and have to consider parking up or laying off staff!

[Sallyann1234]

Airline Passenger Duty should not have been applied to internal flights. Without that unreasonable debt hanging over FlyBe they might just have struggled through the Covid crisis.

[cashash]

Airline Passenger Duty should not have been applied to internal flights. Without that unreasonable debt hanging over FlyBe they might just have struggled through the Covid crisis.

Isnt that the problem? - due to existing single market rules that remain in place until the end of the year, we cannot scrap APD for internal flights without scrapping it throughout the entire Single Market ie: all flights in Europe.

Greta would have had a meltdown.

[OPENDOOR]

Loganair takes over 16 Flybe routes

Some good news then.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/05/loganair-take-16-flybe-routes/

[anson harris]

If you think they're going to be reducing APD in any way shape or form because we've now entered the glorious sunlit uplands, I think you're going to be disappointed. If anything, it will go up.

[Iwillhavethefish]

Does anyone know what will happen to the Heathrow slots? The government lifted the restriction on what routes those slot could be used on in January, Flybe then transfers some of its Heathrow flights to gatwick. Did virgin/delta end up with a brilliant deal for Heathrow slots and then pulled the funding on Flybe leaving it to fail?
The government needs to look into that

[Richard Dangle]

I don't know if it is due to poor management, CEOs stealing money in the form of bonuses, poor internet integration, poor government, lack of advertising, or something else.

Or possibly a global industry that has created an unstable monster in its desire to get the biggest number of people possible airborne, for the lowest possible cost?

Or is that unthinkable hereabouts?

[tinmug]

I guess the government couldn't afford a 100 million bailout because HS2 is already 50 billion (50 thousand million) over budget, if my understanding of a billon is correct.

[GKOC41]

First Monarch, then Thomas Cook, now Flybe.

I don't know if it is due to poor management, CEOs stealing money in the form of bonuses, poor internet integration, poor government, lack of advertising, or something else.

Whatever the cause, it is an absolute disgrace.

My sincere sympathies to all in Flybe - some of whom are former colleagues. Keep your chins up and good luck.

Uplinker
Uplinker - name the last big AOC that started in the UK?
The last one i can remember albeit a medium one was Cargologicair but they have gone also.
In my XX year airline career I've worked for 9 different UK Airlines, anyone who know's me think i'm the kiss of death. The number of UK AOC's have dwindled significantly, many really struggled as they didn't have a level playing field on Flight Time Limitations but let's not go there. They didnt have bonus schemes either.
Just a sad state of affairs. Unfortunately, the pilot job cycle has gone from great to crap in one swoop.

[andrasz]

I don't know if it is due to poor management, CEOs stealing money in the form of bonuses, poor internet integration, poor government, lack of advertising, or something else.

Or possibly a global industry that has created an unstable monster in its desire to get the biggest number of people possible airborne, for the lowest possible cost?

Or is that unthinkable hereabouts?

I think you are spot on. Add to this the fact that the principal industry service providers (airports, atco, fuel, plane manufacturers) are effectively unregulated monopolies who will attempt to suck the last drop from even a viable business, and will pull a weak one under in no time. It would be a very different (and interesting) landscape if all these service providers would get a fixed percentage of the fare paid rather than a flat amount that they determine themselves.

[Richard Dangle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51748139

It appears that a number of industry analysts are on the same page. (My bold)

"This is a very difficult time for the airline industry and it will be about conserving cash," said Greg Waldron, Asia managing editor of Flightglobal magazine. "It will be a very challenging time for those airlines who don't have a lot of cash, especially those that have been involved in a price war."

My heart goes out to those losing their jobs and I have no desire to be any sort of doom-monger to others who may be simarly affected, but randomnly blaming governments, CEOs, managements teams and Uncle Tom Cobbly, for being those primarily responsible for creating an industry full of cash strapped, unstable commercial enterprises lacks reality and smacks of victim culture.

We are all to blame, in some degree, for the state of the airline industry, whether we have chosen to invest our careers in it, or we merely use it to get ourselves to the nearest sunny beach.

And if people don't want accept a small portion of the blame, then fair enough...but lets not have fake news about the state of the industry....absolutely nobody working in this industry has any excuse for being blind to the facts.

[The Bartender]

It would be a very different (and interesting) landscape if all these service providers would get a fixed percentage of the fare paid rather than a flat amount that they determine themselves.

You would have to do the same with wages then. 😂

[Widger]

Originally Posted by Richard Dangle View Post (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/628791-flybe-trouble-17.html#post10704255)
I don't know if it is due to poor management, CEOs stealing money in the form of bonuses, poor internet integration, poor government, lack of advertising, or something else.

Or possibly a global industry that has created an unstable monster in its desire to get the biggest number of people possible airborne, for the lowest possible cost?

Or is that unthinkable hereabouts?

In my humble opinion the common factor with all the failures is debt. Debt that is so large it cannot be managed. Debt that is exacerbated by new aircraft orders, shareholder dividends, profits given to franchisees rather than running it yourself, low load factors, mixed aircraft fleets with associated costs of training/lack of crew flexibility and of course, venture capitalists sucking the business dry . Add to all that competition on certain routes and the money coming in is not even enough to service that debt. Cash is and will always be king. APD is a factor. On the few times I have looked at flights for my yoof who is at Uni in Leeds, the flights were just not competitive with the trains, (well very rarely) even with advance bookings. That £26 (standard rate band A) each way can mean the difference between the choice of rail or air. Then again, the Extinction rebellion types and environmentalists among us will say "good, APD is having the effect of lowering air travel". Until evidence can be provided that over a certain number of miles, air travel is more environmentally friendly than the train per passenger kilometer, then I am afraid I can only see things moving in one direction.

[Wycombe]

Some updates this morning from Blue Islands:
(they operated "rescue flights" to EXT and BHX from the islands yesterday)

BIRMINGHAM & EXETER - UPDATE

Further announcements relating to commencement of a new Blue Islands scheduled service to Birmingham and Exeter from both Guernsey and Jersey will be announced over the coming days. In the meantime, customers are assured of continued service to both of these destinations.

CUSTOMERS WITH FUTURE BOOKINGS MADE VIA FLYBE.COM

Blue Islands is seeking engagement with E&Y, the appointed Administrators of Flybe in respect to future bookings. Currently funds relating to bookings for future travel made via flybe.com are withheld by Flybe’s merchant card acquirers, in order to safeguard consumer funds in the event of Flybe’s collapse. Blue Islands is seeking to clarify whether these acquirers will recognise Blue Islands as the carrying party in such transactions. Or whether customers with future bookings on Blue Islands services, made at flybe.com will need to request a refund from their card providers and rebook via blueislands.com. A further announcement will be made once this is clear.

.....which basically means I think that BI are trying to get their hands directly on the cash that went through Flybe's booking engine for flights that they operate.

[bluefunkybassman]

Looks like the Exeter and Birmingham to Guernsey routes will be taken over by Aurigny, not Blue Islands. I don't have 10 posts so can't post the URL, but it's on the News page on Aurigny's website.

[EGTE]

Reading both companies press releases it appears that Blue Islands will operate Jersey/Guernsey to Exeter once daily.
Aurigny will operate Guernsey to Exeter 4 days per week.

[nicolai]

Airline Passenger Duty should not have been applied to internal flights. Without that unreasonable debt hanging over FlyBe they might just have struggled through the Covid crisis.

APD is both an environmental tax and a revenue raising measure. Why should flights inside the UK be exempt when flights to outside are not? What makes aviation inside the UK so much more special than to outside the UK? Why is my London to Edinburgh flight any different from my London to Amsterdam flight for tax or environmental purposes?

Flybe had a small valid point when they complained they were being double taxed because a return journey from UK to another country is taxed for one takeoff from the UK but return flights in the UK are taxed for two takeoffs from the UK. That's the only part of any APD argument that holds water.

If your airline business can't survive with the same taxes that other airlines pay to fly the same places, then the problem is not the taxation. It's how you run your business - and that applies outside aviation too. A business that can't pay its taxes, or its employees decent wages, has no Gods-given right to survive.

[Wycombe]

Reading both companies press releases it appears that Blue Islands will operate Jersey/Guernsey to Exeter once daily.
Aurigny will operate Guernsey to Exeter 4 days per week

So, I think this represents an overall capacity reduction, and a sharing of the risk, which is actually quite sensible!

[RetiredBA/BY]

So, it is clear that FlyBe was an important part of the UK infrastructure linking many smaller and “ remote “ airports around the country thus providing a valuable essential connectivity facility.

Heres my take:

The UK government should immediately nationalise FlyBe and resume this connectivity at the earliest time, like next week !

After all, we are spending billions on HS2 just to reduce journey time on a limited number of routes already quite well served.

The government spent billions supporting mismanaged banks.

It intends to nationalise a failing, failed northern railway network. Cost ?

We are spending many millions on so called “ smart “ motorways. Bloody dangerous in my view.

We throw away billions on overseas aid much of which we know is wasted.

Time to support our own people and supporting FB and the connectivity they provided would be peanuts in comparison to the above.

... and if my proposals are. In contradiction to EU rules and they kick up, tell Brussels to get lost, we are leaving, have left the EU and this is an internal UK matter

A nationalised FB would be NO threat to Ryanair or BA but if OReilly and Walsh whinge about it offer THEM the chance to run the new FB which would then have no routes duplicating , say BA and Ryanair.

If they make a profit they can keep it, if they make loss so be it, thvey had their chance and their losses prove their whingeing was baseless.

Government support for essential “ connectivity” flights is not new as the Norwegian Government and Wideroe are well aware.

Time for some “out of the box “ and creative thinking by Johnson and Schapps if they are really serious about connectivity.

[Airbanda]

After all, we are spending billions on HS2 just to reduce journey time on a limited number of routes already quite well served.

That's not right. The main driver for HS2 is capacity. The lines out of Euston and Kings Cross are full up and HS2 will relieve them of long distance services freeing up space for local traffic and freight. The speed gain is a by product of building to modern rather than Victorian standards.

[Widger]

Retired BA/BY

I dont disagree with many of your points but not this:

The UK government should immediately nationalise FlyBe and resume this connectivity at the earliest time, like next week !

You could argue this is the removal of an airline from the market that was not being run well and could not manage its debts. The establishment of a Nationalised Flybe would only impact on the profits of those other businesses, Eastern, Loganair, Blue Islands and Aurigny and thereby put them to the wall. If the demand is there, capacity will fill it. There are Public Service Obligation routes that the taxpayer already subsidises but apart from that, leave it alone and let the market find its natural balance. the gaps left by BMI, Monarch and Thomas Cook have all been filled by other providers where there is demand.

[bean]

To the best of my knowledge, Eastern Loganair Blue Islands and Aurigny, are all loss makers
Aurigny has had millions of pounds pumped int it by it' owners the govenmet of Guernsey

[ALTSEL]

Can anybody expand on the value of the LHR slots that I assume Virgin have gained from this debacle - when VS got involved recently it seemed obvious to me that it was the long term objective to harvest these slots ultimately- why am I the only cynic regarding this big factor??

[bean]

Virgin At lantic are contractin not expanding
They lost more tha 12 million pounds year end 2018.
They've also had to write off their investment in Connect Airways.
Based upon what Stobart Group are reporting as an equal shareholder, Virgin will have lost about 50 million pounds.
Bit a price to pay for a few slots wouldn' you think?

[Riskybis]

Virgin At lantic are contractin not expanding
They lost more tha 12 million pounds year end 2018.
They've also had to write off their investment in Connect Airways.
Based upon what Stobart Group are reporting as an equal shareholder, Virgin will have lost about 50 million pounds.
Bit a price to pay for a few slots wouldn' you think?

I believe 1 slot at LHR is around $50million , not sure how many FlyBe had but I wouldn’t be surprised if Virgin made money

[KeyPilot]

So, it is clear that FlyBe was an important part of the UK infrastructure linking many smaller and “ remote “ airports around the country thus providing a valuable essential connectivity facility.

Heres my take:

The UK government should immediately nationalise FlyBe and resume this connectivity at the earliest time, like next week !

After all, we are spending billions on HS2 just to reduce journey time on a limited number of routes already quite well served.

The government spent billions supporting mismanaged banks.

It intends to nationalise a failing, failed northern railway network. Cost ?

We are spending many millions on so called “ smart “ motorways. Bloody dangerous in my view.

We throw away billions on overseas aid much of which we know is wasted.

Time to support our own people and supporting FB and the connectivity they provided would be peanuts in comparison to the above.

... and if my proposals are. In contradiction to EU rules and they kick up, tell Brussels to get lost, we are leaving, have left the EU and this is an internal UK matter

A nationalised FB would be NO threat to Ryanair or BA but if OReilly and Walsh whinge about it offer THEM the chance to run the new FB which would then have no routes duplicating , say BA and Ryanair.

If they make a profit they can keep it, if they make loss so be it, thvey had their chance and their losses prove their whingeing was baseless.

Government support for essential “ connectivity” flights is not new as the Norwegian Government and Wideroe are well aware.

Time for some “out of the box “ and creative thinking by Johnson and Schapps if they are really serious about connectivity.

Amusing rant, but not one which has any likelihood of happening!

What do people think is the rational public policy response to the FlyBE collapse (within the bounds of reason)?

I would like to see APD cut in half (so to £6.50) for domestic flights; and scrapped altogether for domestic flights where no realistic alternative than flying exists (which could be defined as no rail connection between relevant conurbations of less than 3 hours duration - which would effectively lift it entirely for BHD, JER, GCI, NQY but not EXT, SOU, ...).

Can anyone explain what the current special APD provisions are for certain Scottish airports? Is APD devolved to the Scottish government?

[Chris2303]

Can anyone explain what the current special APD provisions are for certain Scottish airports? Is APD devolved to the Scottish government?

Google is your friend:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exemptions-from-air-passenger-duty

[KeyPilot]

APD is both an environmental tax and a revenue raising measure. Why should flights inside the UK be exempt when flights to outside are not? What makes aviation inside the UK so much more special than to outside the UK? Why is my London to Edinburgh flight any different from my London to Amsterdam flight for tax or environmental purposes?


Because aviation inside the UK comprises UK public transport, which is a matter of UK public policy; and travel form the UK to other countries is not (or at least, to nowhere near the same extent).

Countries build roads, railways, etc. to connect their people, almost always with some element of public finance. It's just part and parcel of being a country. And yet, when aviation achieves the same ends, not only does this receive no public finance, but the state seeks to levy a tax upon it! This is illogical, and wrong.

[KeyPilot]

Google is your friend:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exemptions-from-air-passenger-duty

So it is. Thanks.

Never realised it only applied one way. So INV-LHR is zero rated, however full rate applies on LHR-INV. So in effect it halves the APD (I grant that it will eliminate it entirely for the intra-highland & island flights).

I think the story of the FlyBE collapse, plus the parlous history of UK domestic air carriers, is such that APD on domestic flights really needs overhauling.

[radiosutch]

To the best of my knowledge, Eastern Loganair Blue Islands and Aurigny, are all loss makers
Aurigny has had millions of pounds pumped int it by it' owners the govenmet of Guernsey

Aurigny is there solely for the sake of Guernsey PLC and subsidised appropriately. It's not there to step in and operate any non Guernsey routes as they don't benefit Guernsey.

[kcockayne]

Largely true but, it might benefit by operating a few more profitable routes , such as ones from Jersey . The question is whether inter island rivalry would blinker the States of Guernsey & prevent them from allowing their airline to operate more commercially. It would, for example, allow AUR to at least double the revenue it generates on Exeter services , if the route was triangular via Jersey. Generally, AUR could do with more routes (ex BEE ones ?); however, this would stretch them &, it might be suggested, would expose the quality of their management more obviously than it, seemingly, does now. I am not suggesting that the management is poor - but the airline continues to lose a lot of money on the restricted number of routes which it already serves ! The same is true of Blue Island.

[radiosutch]

Largely true but, it might benefit by operating a few more profitable routes , such as ones from Jersey . The question is whether inter island rivalry would blinker the States of Guernsey & prevent them from allowing their airline to operate more commercially. It would, for example, allow AUR to at least double the revenue it generates on Exeter services , if the route was triangular via Jersey. Generally, AUR could do with more routes (ex BEE ones ?); however, this would stretch them &, it might be suggested, would expose the quality of their management more obviously than it, seemingly, does now. I am not suggesting that the management is poor - but the airline continues to lose a lot of money on the restricted number of routes which it already serves ! The same is true of Blue Island.
Agreed, but splitting the revenue take with Blueislands for example on a Jersey/Exeter route might mean no profits for either. Specially in the winter.

[oapilot]

To the best of my knowledge, Eastern Loganair Blue Islands and Aurigny, are all loss makers
Aurigny has had millions of pounds pumped int it by it' owners the govenmet of Guernsey

Loganair made a loss in the year that Flybe/Eastern tried to do them over on the Islands routes (although it cost both of them considerably more), otherwise they’ve been profitable for some time.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

I would like to see APD cut in half (so to £6.50) for domestic flights; and scrapped altogether for domestic flights where no realistic alternative than flying exists

I’d like to see APD multiplied tenfold to start to address the appalling consequences of global warming. The fact that I make some (increasingly less, year on year, and deliberately so) of my income from aviation doesn’t stop me seeing the unsustainable damage it does to our planet.

We need far fewer airlines, far fewer airplanes, far fewer flights. We need to learn not to travel, the same way we need to learn not to make other dumb decisions, which are raping our childrens’ futures. Our wallets can deliver that message quite powerfully.

[kcockayne]

Agreed, but splitting the revenue take with Blueislands for example on a Jersey/Exeter route might mean no profits for either. Specially in the winter.
I completely agree with you. In fact, I made this point in a separate post on this subject. What I was trying to do here was to highlight the fact that AUR might be in existence to serve the States of Guernsey’s purposes, but they would surely prefer the airline to make more money, even if that involved operating some Jersey services eg. Exeter - Jersey - Guernsey.

[Auxtank]

Sun 8 Mar approx 1320 hrs; Just seen a Q400 Flybe on final for SOU.
What's that all about? Already re-leesed to someone awaiting paint job?

[DaveReidUK]

Sun 8 Mar approx 1320 hrs; Just seen a Q400 Flybe on final for SOU.
What's that all about? Already re-leesed to someone awaiting paint job?

Not wishing to cast aspersions on your aircraft recognition skills, but are you sure it wasn't a Blue Islands ATR ? Two of those fly in Flybe livery, they won't have been repainted yet.

One of them, G-ISLL, landed at SOU at around 13:30.

[iainp]

Where is the FlyBe fleet now?

[DaveReidUK]

Where is the FlyBe fleet now?

Aberdeen, Belfast, Birmingham, Dusseldorf, Edinburgh, Exeter, Heathrow, Isle of Man, Manchester, Newquay and Southampton.

[EGTE]

This will tell you:

Jethro's fleet listing (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/flybe.htm)

[Longtimer]

Chorus Aviation comments on the administration of Flybe LimitedPosted on March 5, 2020 (https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases/chorus-aviation-comments-on-the-administration-of-flybe-limited/); Chorus Aviation Press Release
Earlier today, Flybe Limited (‘Flybe’) ceased operating and was placed in administration.
Advertisement
https://assets.verticalmag.com/ad-placement/2019/09-september/southportairport-skies_website_september-2019_08_28-12_53_08.jpg (https://servedbyadbutler.com/redirect.spark?MID=168003&plid=1007040&setID=210313&channelID=0&CID=326244&banID=519757289&PID=0&textadID=0&tc=1&mt=1583895510304504&sw=1536&sh=864&spr=1.25&hc=22f6ca1a5cf6b0e15ea516f107cbc70a36076d52&location=)Chorus had three ATR 72-600 and five Dash 8-400 aircraft on lease with Flybe.

These aircraft account for less than five per cent of the net book value of Chorus’ regional aircraft leasing segment fleet and less than five per cent of Chorus’ consolidated annualized 2019 EBITDA. Chorus holds security in respect of these aircraft and has a plan to manage their repossession and remarketing. Furthermore, Chorus’ loan agreements provide time and flexibility to remarket the aircraft.“We have planned for this contingency and are executing against our plan,” stated Steven Ridolfi, president, Chorus Aviation Capital. “We are currently in negotiations with prospects for these aircraft. As noted, these aircraft represent only a small portion of the value of our leased aircraft portfolio.”

[Jamie2009]

It's been over a month, anyone know where the fleet is? are still at the regional airports? if so where they are parked?
I know one Dash went from LHR to EXT.

Wonder what the plan is?

[LanceHudson]

It's been over a month, anyone know where the fleet is? are still at the regional airports? if so where they are parked?
I know one Dash went from LHR to EXT.

Wonder what the plan is?

A good few are still sitting on the apron at Edinburgh

[A380MSN0001]

You can find below the airports code where the Q400s are parked.

REG AIRCRAFT TYPE CONFIG DELIVERED REMARK AIRCRAFT NAME AGE
G-ECOA Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Dec 2007 Stored EXT 12.7 Years
G-ECOB Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jun 2009 Stored GLA 12.6 Years
G-ECOC Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Dec 2009 Stored CWL, lsd 12.2 Years
G-ECOD Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2008 Stored ABZ, lsd 12.1 Years
G-ECOE Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jun 2010 Stored SOU 12 Years
G-ECOF Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Aug 2010 Stored MAN, lsd 11.9 Years
G-ECOG Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2008 Stored BHX, lsd 11.7 Years
G-ECOH Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 May 2014 Stored SOU, lsd Scotland 11.7 Years
G-ECOI Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2017 Stored MAN, lsd 11.7 Years
G-ECOJ Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jan 2009 Stored ABZ, lsd 11.6 Years
G-ECOK Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2017 Stored SOU, lsd 11.6 Years
G-ECOM Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Dec 2008 Stored SOU, lsd 11.5 Years
G-ECOO Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jan 2009 Stored EXT, lsd 11.2 Years
G-ECOP Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2009 Stored MAN, lsd 11.3 Years
G-ECOR Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2009 Stored BHX, lsd 11.2 Years
G-ECOT Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 May 2009 Stored MAN, lsd 10.9 Years
G-FLBA Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2009 Stored BHD, lsd 10.9 Years
G-FLBB Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2009 Stored BHX, lsd 11.1 Years
G-FLBC Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2009 Stored EXT, lsd 11 Years
G-FLBD Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2010 Stored BHX, lsd Spirit of Inverness 11 Years
G-FLBE Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2010 Stored NQY, lsd Spirit of Exeter 10.9 Years
G-JECK Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jan 2006 Stored ABZ, lsd 14.4 Years
G-JECL Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jan 2006 Stored EXT, lsd 14.4 Years
G-JECM Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2006 Stored SOU, lsd 14.3 Years
G-JECN Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2006 Stored EDI, lsd 14.1 Years
G-JECO Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2006 Stored EXT, lsd 14 Years
G-JECP Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2006 Stored GLA, lsd 13.7 Years
G-JECR Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Dec 2006 Stored EDI, lsd, Cancer Research sticker 13.6 Years
G-JECX Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jun 2007 Stored IOM, lsd 13.1 Years
G-JECY Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Mar 2014 Stored MAN, lsd Scotland 13.2 Years
G-JECZ Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Nov 2007 Stored BHX, lsd 12.7 Years
G-JEDM Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2003 Stored EXT 17.7 Years
G-JEDP Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jan 2004 Stored EXT Spirit of Belfast 16.4 Years
G-JEDR Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Mar 2004 Stored EXT Spirit of Dublin 16.3 Years
G-JEDT Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Mar 2004 Stored BHD Spirit of Edinburgh 16.2 Years
G-JEDU Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2004 Stored BHD Spirit of the Regions 16.2 Years
G-JEDV Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 May 2004 Stored GLA Glasgow Abbotsinch International (GLA / EGPF)16.2 Years
G-JEDW Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2004 Stored EDI 16.2 Years
G-KKEV Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2008 Stored MAN, lsd 12.2 Years
G-PRPA Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 May 2015 Stored EDI 12.5 Years
G-PRPB Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Jul 2015 Stored BHD 9.7 Years
G-PRPC Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Aug 2015 Stored SOU 9.6 Years
G-PRPD Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Nov 2015 Stored DUS 9.7 Years
G-PRPE Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2016 Stored BHD 12 Years
G-PRPF Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Dec 2016 Stored BHD 12.4 Years
G-PRPG Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Nov 2016 Stored BHD 12.5 Years
G-PRPH Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Oct 2016 Stored EXT 9.8 Years
G-PRPI Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Sep 2016 Stored EDI 12.1 Years
G-PRPJ Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Dec 2016 Stored EDI, lsd 12.2 Years
G-PRPK Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Feb 2017 Stored EXT, lsd 12.1 Years
G-PRPL Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2015 Stored BHX 8.7 Years
G-PRPM Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Apr 2017 Stored EDI, lsd 12.5 Years
G-PRPN Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 Mar 2017 Stored EXT, lsd 11.9 Years
G-PRPO Bombardier DHC-8-400 Y78 May 2017 Stored MAN, lsd 11.9 Years

[Pistonprop]

Wonder what the plan is?

Storage! I don't think anyone is looking for aircraft right at this moment!

[cats_five]

Storage! I don't think anyone is looking for aircraft right at this moment!

Why do the "quote" thingies not work anymore? I've noticed others having the same problem.

Look carefully, you managed to lose a square bracket

[A380MSN0001]

Storage! I don't think anyone is looking for aircraft right at this moment!

Why do the "quote" thingies not work anymore? I've noticed others having the same problem.

Maybe some urgent maintenance work at Flybe Aviation Services. Those are still running and not part of the collapse.

[Pistonprop]

Bracket found, thank you ;)

[dixi188]

FAS is only doing a limited amount of maintenance I believe as most of the staff have been laid off. Although I wonder how practical it would be to bring as much of the fleet to Exeter so it can be maintained in house. I would imagine EXT could house 25-30 aircraft at a push?

I'm not sure you could get that many stored at EXT as a lot the north side has been taken up with the business park.

[A380MSN0001]

FAS is only doing a limited amount of maintenance I believe as most of the staff have been laid off. Although I wonder how practical it would be to bring as much of the fleet to Exeter so it can be maintained in house. I would imagine EXT could house 25-30 aircraft at a push?

Back in the days, when Flybe was operating what range of services FAS were providing? Were they able to provide all the checks?

[Webby737]

Back in the days, when Flybe was operating what range of services FAS were providing? Were they able to provide all the checks?
They were able to provide all maintenance services up to D Check or equivalent on several types including the Dash 8, BAe 146/ Avro RJ and ATR.
They had a good reputation within the industry, hopefully someone will buy them and start third party work.

[dixi188]

They were able to provide all maintenance services up to D Check or equivalent on several types including the Dash 8, BAe 146/ Avro RJ and ATR.
They had a good reputation within the industry, hopefully someone will buy them and start third party work.

Up to about 3 years ago FAS were doing about 60-70% third party work and making a lot of money, but they were so busy that some of the FlyBe aircraft were going elswhere as hangar slots were all booked up.
With new management and changed priorities, a lot of third party work was turned away, I think it will be hard to get it back.

[Webby737]

Up to about 3 years ago FAS were doing about 60-70% third party work and making a lot of money, but they were so busy that some of the FlyBe aircraft were going elswhere as hangar slots were all booked up.
With new management and changed priorities, a lot of third party work was turned away, I think it will be hard to get it back.

I think given the current climate with Covid 19 and Brexit that they will struggle to find a buyer.
It's a shame as they did a great job, the companies that put their aircraft though there always seemed happy with them.

[dixi188]

I loved working in hangar 21. No spying eyes and mostly 146s.

[Webby737]

I only worked in Hangar 21, Hangars 1 and 2 weren't built when I was doing a bit off work there back in the late 90s.
It was a good place to work, happy memories. (Except for the bloody Dart Herald, I'm still traumatised !)

[dixi188]

I think you mean "Norman" who's been there forever.

[Arthur Bellcrank]

And Stanley and Darren plus a couple of others in workshops. Hope they soon find work.

[Webby737]

I was there when they were looking after the Dart Heralds and F27s for Channel Express as well as their own fleet of 146s, that would have been around 1996 - 1998.
People I remember are Pete Mankalo (probably spelt that incorrectly!), Dougie Butland and Adrian Webb, the name Paul Timms rings a bell.
Anyway, I hope the guys that were working there find jobs, as I mentioned earlier FAS had a good reputation within the industry so hopefully something should appear in the not too distant future.

[dixi188]

Unfortunately Dougie Butland died about 10 years ago. He never fully recovered after being knocked off his motorbike in 2007.

[Webby737]

Unfortunately Dougie Butland died about 10 years ago. He never fully recovered after being knocked off his motorbike in 2007.
Thats sad to hear Dixi, I had heard that Dougie had a bike accident but I never knew that he had passed away.

[Jamie2009]

Wonder who's interested and if the gov will overule the CAA.....

assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-sites/ey-com/en_uk/generic/flybe-limited-administration/ey-flybe-limited-administrators-proposals.pdf