Jetstar EBA 2019

[ManillaChillaDilla]

The union seems to be going above and beyond in an attempt to 'sell' the deal. I thought that was the companies job. A good deal should sell itself? Doesn't sound like this one does... at all..

VERY GOOD POINT.

I think everyone who understands industrial relations is sus on the hard sell from the union. Their constant emails look like something of the TV shopping network at 0300 am.

It all smacks of pushing it through before the IR laws change early next year. All the more reason to consider carefully your vote.

Time to value your contribution to record profits and ask why YOU are not worth what your contemporaries in other entities are.

MCD

[Willie Nelson]

Do you really think this is “Sus”? I mean, there’s all sorts of reasons why you might have a legitimate take on voting no for this agreement but how about we leave the character assassinations out of the discussion. These are your colleagues who have been negotiating on your behalf now for literally years.

There were nominations recently for council, you too were free to put your hand up and potentially provide some fresh ideas.

Let’s play the ball not the man.

[RealSatoshi]

RBA deputy governor Michele Bullock has said: "...it is now not expecting inflation to fall back below the top of its 2-3% target range until 2025."
(ABC News - 10 November 2022)

[Willie Nelson]

RBA deputy governor Michele Bullock has said: "...it is now not expecting inflation to fall back below the top of its 2-3% target range until 2025."
(ABC News - 10 November 2022)

And that's before an RBA review that will likely ammend the mandate of the RBA to a greater list of metrics above and beyond a higher inflation target.

[Mr_App]

With the amount of A320 leases that have not been renewed looks like the A321N might be domestic bound for the moment. Seems like 10 A320s are going back to the lessor as we speak. It also appears a whole bunch of old transferred Japan and Vietnam leases fall away next year, assuming they are also 10 years, they don't seem too keen on renewing at the moment.

[Icarus2001]

Is that the same RBA that said in 2021 that rates would not rise until 2024?

https://7news.com.au/business/rba-sticks-to-low-cash-rate-until-2024-c-4154222

They carry on as if they have control just like politicians, look what a mess they have made of our power market, not to mention the Covid debacle.

They don’t bloody know where inflation or rates are going, or when.

[dive and drive]

We clearly deserve to be treated the way Jetstar treats us.

Unlike what management did in recent times with other group entities engaged in bargaining, they didn't even have to issue the threat of transferring our flying or assigning new arrivals in the fleet to someone else.

We'll always be third class citizens and, judging from the ballot data, the majority of us has no problems with it.

[LostontheLOC]

We clearly deserve to be treated the way Jetstar treats us.

Unlike what management did in recent times with other group entities engaged in bargaining, they didn't even have to issue the threat of transferring our flying or assigning new arrivals in the fleet to someone else.

We'll always be third class citizens and, judging from the ballot data, the majority of us has no problems with it.

Well said, good luck and congratulations to everyone who voted to keep the pilot base several steps behind the minimum standard.

Saving cents to waste thousands.... Fools

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Let the continued whinging re conditions and work life ballance continue.

Ironically, you will never find one operson that voted for it when the reality of a rubbish deal sets in.

Unfortunately, the majority are happy to maintain the low ball status quo and as such deserve nothing more. Once again we are a laughing stock.

Pathetically dissapointing.

MCD

[onezeroonethree]

66% yes vote I am told and about 93% voted. But during what seems to be the biggest pilot exodus in my time in the industry with a genuine shortage of experienced pilots flocking to USA where you can get a $100,000 USD sign on bonus up front, and/or go double or tripple your salary in general, why on earth did they vote yes to the first option handed to them?

0/0/3/3 pay rise? Inflation is 7.5? Whatever they got was mostly just to bump those FO/SOs who are below the award?

Caved in. No right to complain

[xaos03]

By the looks the new proposed has been voted in and will be put forward. For those that are/were considering jq; what is the new first year(s) salary and new (apparent) benefits?

[PoppaJo]

and new (apparent) benefits?
That wasn’t negotiated this agreement. Come back another time.

Farewell AFAP. Thanks for nothing over the years. One of most useless and pathetic attempts at bargaining I have ever been apart of. The union and airline are both an embarrassment, they deserve each other.

[goodonyamate]

Wowzer. I’m shocked that got up. Terrible deal. Feel for the ‘No’ voters that are stuck with that pile of crap. Probably even shocked the company negotiators. Must be rolling in the street laughing over at QCC.

[Mr_App]

Cadets are easily led on so you can guarantee the lot of them voted for it. Senior FOs and Captains will likely form the base of the "NO". An aged and senior pilot base would likely vote differently. The young kids have no idea (well they will have an idea one day when they look back...oh **** I voted for that...?).

[Slippery_Pete]

0/0/3/3

Tell me you’re joking?

You agreed to a total of 6% rise over four years when the CPI over that same period is expected to be 17%?

Hell, 6% doesn’t even cover inflation for this year alone.

And in an environment where there’s a severe nationwide pilot shortage that has only just begun, with every domestic jet flight in Australia booked out weeks in advance with record high airfares, and a parent company who are predicted to make $1.3b profit in six months.

It defies logic that one person voted for this, let alone 66%.

[LostontheLOC]

There is a clause in the contract that allows for any other subsidiary that achieves over a "0/0/3/3" pay, the contract will revert back to a "equal amount" of the pay increase..

So if the engineering unit gets a ,3/3/3/3 the whole jetstar base will receive the pay increase and back pay across the board.

Let's hope this happens. Hopefully the engineering section is the best of all of us.

[dr dre]

Senior FOs and Captains will likely form the base of the "NO".

So why was it 66% Yes then? A lot of Senior FOs and Capts must’ve voted for it. With pay increases below inflation what was the carrot dangled?

[LostontheLOC]

So why was it 66% Yes then? A lot of Senior FOs and Capts must’ve voted for it. With pay increases below inflation what was the carrot dangled?
Fear, misguidance and mismanagement from the union, and fatigue.

Should have seen one of the write up a union rep put up in the telegram chat giving a massive sob story about how they couldn't afford to do PIA because they have a "young family".

[Chronic Snoozer]

Management would have been disappointed the Yes vote was that high. Must have given away a bit too much. Much better to have the vote split 55/45. And I mean that in a completely impartial way. Never underestimate the propensity for pilots to fight amongst themselves.

[goodonyamate]

So what do y’all do now? Leave AFAP? What a terrible deal.

[Angle of Attack]

I’m still gobsmacked anyone believes AFAP is genuine option, Onya Jetstar, thanks for bringing GA to the Airlines!

[FOI]

I’m still gobsmacked anyone believes AFAP is genuine option, Onya Jetstar, thanks for bringing GA to the Airlines!

Some of you lot are just embarrassing with the childish garbage you carry on with. AoA, how would you know “GA” with the 10 minutes you probably spent exposed to it. If this is “GA” (a catch phrase of idiots), then things have certainly improved since my years in it. Would also love to see you take a post on a bargaining committee and do better, but alas you can’t even string a sentence together.

By all means continue to beat yourselves up on here if you find it therapeutic,..

I don’t think you’ll get much support from those millions out there not enjoying our salaries and conditions, nor from too many other airline pilots in this country either to be frank (or that 66% JQ majority that are smart and voted it in).

Maybe we should have another COVID couple of years to remind us of just how lucky we are. Short memories.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

"Maybe we should have another COVID couple of years to remind us of just how lucky we are. Short memories". Thas FOIs take on the industry.

This is the exact problem the pilot group has encountered time and time again. This post really sums up the issues deeply embedded within the union and its issues dealing in an adult manner with its members.

Wishing for another covid experience with all the hurt and damage it caused to so many shoud get this poster kicked off this forum.

Not being paid for 2 years? I fail to see how that equates to being lucky.

FOI has really shone a light on how the AFAP " Actually operates " and the ongoing hopelessness of the situation encountered by the 34%.

MCD

[LostontheLOC]

Some of you lot are just embarrassing with the childish garbage you carry on with. AoA, how would you know “GA” with the 10 minutes you probably spent exposed to it. If this is “GA” (a catch phrase of idiots), then things have certainly improved since my years in it. Would also love to see you take a post on a bargaining committee and do better, but alas you can’t even string a sentence together.

By all means continue to beat yourselves up on here if you find it therapeutic,..

I don’t think you’ll get much support from those millions out there not enjoying our salaries and conditions, nor from too many other airline pilots in this country either to be frank (or that 66% JQ majority that are smart and voted it in).

Maybe we should have another COVID couple of years to remind us of just how lucky we are. Short memories.

Seems to be the same consistent rhetoric with you Al.

[a_pilot]

GA to the airlines

From memory, most GA jobs paid under $50k, some only $20k and you flew around in a beaten up piston single VFR.

Yet most full time Jetstar Captains will earn at least $250k and some even towards $300k, for flying a "JET", the same aircraft type used by the legacy airlines. How can this be GA?

This is whilst the average Australian salary is under $100k, yet somehow $250k+ is supposed to be GA and below the poverty line? (Yes, apparently Jetstar pilots are below the poverty line I heard once).

[goodonyamate]

From memory, most GA jobs paid under $50k, some only $20k and you flew around in a beaten up piston single VFR.

Yet most full time Jetstar Captains will earn at least $250k and some even towards $300k, for flying a "JET", the same aircraft type used by the legacy airlines. How can this be GA?

This is whilst the average Australian salary is under $100k, yet somehow $250k+ is supposed to be below the poverty line? (Yes, apparently Jetstar pilots are below the poverty line I heard once).

why compare yourself to the rest of the population? Do they fly as well? Totally irrelevant what everyone else earns.

just in time for a profit upgrade too. Surely the YES crowd must feel like a bunch of mugs.

[Gunner747400]

why compare yourself to the rest of the population? Do they fly as well? Totally irrelevant what everyone else earns.

Yeah, according to the yes voters in this thread, we can't compare ourselves to the US gang who are earning more flying regional jets, yet we can compare ourselves to woolies workers.

just in time for a profit upgrade too. Surely the YES crowd must feel like a bunch of mugs.

That did make me laugh during my morning coffee. Must be good to know you have helped fund another bonus for execs.

Good work guys!!

[a_pilot]

Totally irrelevant what everyone else earns.

Not when I'm being accused of working below the poverty line or being in GA (a low income job).

Jokestar, ****star, onestar, nostar, scabs, peasants weak and spineless, GA... call us what you want. I'll take my $300k this FY and you are free to call us what you want. **** money hey?

[a_pilot]

can't compare ourselves to the US gang who are earning more flying regional jets, yet we can compare ourselves to woolies workers.


Comparing ourselves to the US when we live in Australia is what is irrelevant.

[Gunner747400]

why compare yourself to the rest of the population? Do they fly as well? Totally irrelevant what everyone else earns.

just in time for a profit upgrade too. Surely the YES crowd must feel like a bunch of mugs.

Comparing ourselves to the US when we live in Australia is what is irrelevant.
I think it is rather appropriate to compare the negotiating and bargaining ability of pilot unions in a similar capitalistic country though.

.... and one union is negotiating 20% + pay rises over one year, one isn't.

Maybe it's time we get someone from the ALPA to give these blokes a pep talk. Although just about any other union in Australia with similar membership density could probably do a better job anyway.

[a_pilot]

I think it is rather appropriate to compare the negotiating and bargaining ability of pilot unions in a similar capitalistic country though.


Not really similar. That other country has a severe pilot shortage unlike Australia.

Maybe that has something to do with it?
​​​​​​​Did you ever compare this ?

[goodonyamate]

Not when I'm being accused of working below the poverty line or being in GA (a low income job).

Jokestar, ****star, onestar, nostar..... call us what you want. I'll take my $300k this FY and you are free to call us what you want. **** money hey?

I called you nothing of the sort. That’s great you’ve made 300k. How hard did you have to work to get that? Is it sustainable? How’s your fatigue? Duty travel sorted?

300k is good money. It’s what you had to do to get it that counts. Maybe then, it doesn’t look like good money.

[Gunner747400]

Not really similar. That other country has a severe pilot shortage unlike Australia.

Maybe that has something to do with it?
Did you ever compare this ?
I guess all the cancellations on the FIDS screen for tech crew shortages don't count.

[a_pilot]

I guess all the cancellations on the FIDS screen for tech crew shortages don't count.

Usually due cabin crew or AOG.

[brokenagain]

Qantas flags boosted profit of up to $1.45 billion for early 2023 (https://www.9news.com.au/national/qantas-flags-higher-first-half-profit-up-to-1-point-45-billion-for-2023/bdddf769-c93a-43c2-b7a7-333fc6757a86)

Good job locking in a pay freeze for the next 2 years. Unbelievable. :ugh:

[havick]

Not when I'm being accused of working below the poverty line or being in GA (a low income job).

Jokestar, ****star, onestar, nostar, scabs, peasants weak and spineless, GA... call us what you want. I'll take my $300k this FY and you are free to call us what you want. **** money hey?

It is considering regional pilots in the US are earning 200-400k usd quite easily.

[havick]

Comparing ourselves to the US when we live in Australia is what is irrelevant.

How so? Given how easy it is to transition to the US I don’t see it so irrelevant at all.

[FOI]

"Maybe we should have another COVID couple of years to remind us of just how lucky we are. Short memories". Thas FOIs take on the industry.

This is the exact problem the pilot group has encountered time and time again. This post really sums up the issues deeply embedded within the union and its issues dealing in an adult manner with its members.

Wishing for another covid experience with all the hurt and damage it caused to so many shoud get this poster kicked off this forum.

Not being paid for 2 years? I fail to see how that equates to being lucky.

FOI has really shone a light on how the AFAP " Actually operates " and the ongoing hopelessness of the situation encountered by the 34%.

MCD

You are laughable MCD. Keep bashing away…

[FOI]

How so? Given how easy it is to transition to the US I don’t see it so irrelevant at all.

Go then and take MCD with you. Uptopia awaits…(for us, when you’re gone and living in Detroit).

[SHVC]

It is considering regional pilots in the US are earning 200-400k usd quite easily.

If this utopia exist, I think I need to go now JQ has run its course.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Its absolutely time to move on. Paticularly if your stuck on the 320 and about to experience your new lifestyle or lack there of.

I feel sorry for those guys.

Reality bites. Hard.

Good luck to all.

MCD

[havick]

If this utopia exist, I think I need to go now JQ has run its course.

If I had stayed at the regional I was at, I would’ve grossed $400k usd.

Fortunately the private departments (at least the good ones), are also keeping pace with wages too and seeing base salaries higher than that on the large cabin gulfstream/Falcon side.

[tossbag]

Go to the US young man, the land of milk and honey. Yes, you may get Detroit for 6 months but if you don't like Detroit, guess what..........don't ****en apply to the airline that has a base there. Or commute with positive space or commuter hotels. Smash the 401k, pump it full of USD for when you come back, spend enough time there and you won't be returning to a cesspit job in Aus, you'll be fishing from the deck of your beach shack.

Be secure in the knowledge that all the dickheads won't be following you to the US, they're the ones carrying on about Detroit, they'll be staying in Aus calculating the compound 3% payrise and telling you it's not really 3% it's about 3.11% in year two, awesome bruh. Meanwhile you'll be working out what the compound effect of a first up100% bump in your hourly rate means to the 401k balance.

Land of milk and honey, and oh yeah, land of pilot unions that don't sell out their junior members.

[FOI]

Go to the US young man, the land of milk and honey. Yes, you may get Detroit for 6 months but if you don't like Detroit, guess what..........don't ****en apply to the airline that has a base there. Or commute with positive space or commuter hotels. Smash the 401k, pump it full of USD for when you come back, spend enough time there and you won't be returning to a cesspit job in Aus, you'll be fishing from the deck of your beach shack.

Be secure in the knowledge that all the dickheads won't be following you to the US, they're the ones carrying on about Detroit, they'll be staying in Aus calculating the compound 3% payrise and telling you it's not really 3% it's about 3.11% in year two, awesome bruh. Meanwhile you'll be working out what the compound effect of a first up100% bump in your hourly rate means to the 401k balance.

Land of milk and honey, and oh yeah, land of pilot unions that don't sell out their junior members.

You guys really are a bunch of clowns on here

[a_pilot]

Given how easy it is to transition to the US I don’t see it so irrelevant at all.

If only I could transition my parents, siblings, relatives and friends there too, as well the local footy club and all my other other local favourite establishments too.

[Gunner747400]

You guys really are a bunch of clowns on here
How is he a clown? He is literally telling it for how it is

a) It is easy to get a base that is not DTW
b) It is easy to make the same amount of money as Australia, in the US, with less work
c) The pay rise here is 3% a year
d) American pilot unions do have bigger cojones

But yes, keep telling yourself you are on an awesome wicket in 'straya with your payrise below inflation :ugh:

[das Uber Soldat]

How is he a clown? He is literally telling it for how it is

a) It is easy to get a base that is not DTW
b) It is easy to make the same amount of money as Australia, in the US, with less work
c) The pay rise here is 3% a year
d) American pilot unions do have bigger cojones

But yes, keep telling yourself you are on an awesome wicket in 'straya with your payrise below inflation :ugh:
I agree. I personally recommend as many of you head to the US as possible. :E

[aussieflyboy]

If only I could transition my parents, siblings, relatives and friends there too, as well the local footy club and all my other other local favourite establishments too.

Thats all good and well until your company closes your preferred base and gives you the option of unemployment or move to some other city where you have no one. Think it’ll never happen to you? Never say never son.

[FOI]

Thats all good and well until your company closes your preferred base and gives you the option of unemployment or move to some other city where you have no one. Think it’ll never happen to you? Never say never son.

Or live in a country with a crazy political system, with a population all packing guns, sweating on the next economic down turn triggered by a war your host country regularly engages in, where all the already unwanted expat “guests” get furloughed first in a heartbeat from their fixed term contracts. Wouldn’t happen either would it….

If half the bull****e being bandied around regarding salaries for US regionals on here were true, pure economics dictates that a regional airline paying pilots 400K USD is instantly doomed the moment a blip in the economy eventuates. No way that could occur given inflation & world events either eh??

But seriously, I couldn’t give a stuff about greedy, arrogant, comparatively inexperienced self professed “professional pilots” viciously moaning on this thread about how badly treated they are on six figure salaries now bolstered in a recent 21% + + payrise here in the best country on Earth. F&ck off over there and give the rest of us some peace. Apparently according to half you imbeciles these companies are falling over themselves to have you.

[RealSatoshi]

...I couldn’t give a stuff about greedy, arrogant, comparatively inexperienced self professed “professional pilots” viciously moaning about how badly treated they are on six figure salaries now bolstered in a recent 21% + + payrise...
By far the most insulting comment with reference to one's own colleagues ever witnessed on here - you must've escaped Kindergarten with the teacher's scientific calculator in hand.

[FOI]

By far the most insulting comment with reference to one's own colleagues ever witnessed on here - you must've escaped Kindergarten with the teacher's scientific calculator in hand.

“Escaped kindergarten with the teachers scientific calculator in hand?”

My “colleagues” I don’t consider to be a collective of certain idiots posting on this thread.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

FOI, go and count your money (or lack of it) because types like you and the other "yes" voters have just signed up on a deal that will remind you of COVID for not 3 years, but the next 30 years....


Now thats an accurate summation.

Its the younger pilots in this organisation that have been hard shafted by those bound up in self interest. I really do feel for the young pilots.

Time to close this thread. The topic has run its course. 66% of JQ pilolts are happy to be treated with distain. Unfortunately, thats the end of the story. It is however, democracy at work.

Abusive ranting from the main antagonist on this thread only serve to further deteriorate the already trashed reputations of those working at JQ. Except for the 34%ers.

Best of luck to those understandably moving on or out over the next while.


MCD

[Lookleft]

The topic has run its course. 66% of JQ pilolts are happy to be treated with distain. Unfortunately, thats the end of the story. It is however, democracy at work.

Well done MCD bringing some maturity and perspective to this thread. The rantings of some (well one really) just reinforces why I would never join the AFAP as a union to represent me. From last century to this EBA they continue to ignore what their members actually want and will dictate what is good for the pilots. As for Jetstar I will quote "Bomber" Harris: "They sowed the wind,and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."

​​​​​​​

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Like that other QF group entity that recently had a terrible EB forced upon them, this so called victory by the QF industrial brutes was gained through fear alone. Of the 66% that voted yes, I guarantee 90% of those felt they had no choice. Also like that other QF group entity, plummeting morale will now cripple the operation.

[Lookleft]

plummeting morale will now cripple the operation.

​​​​​​​Very true, thats why I quoted AVM Harris.

[brokenagain]

Meanwhile, QF FA’s just had a 99% yes vote to commence Industrial Action…….

[Gunner747400]

Meanwhile, QF FA’s just had a 99% yes vote to commence Industrial Action…….
How dare you compare pilots to flight attendants.... They earn so much less than us, and must not be compared to us!

/sarcasm.

To be serious though, good on 'em. Sounds like engineers are heading down the same path too.

[tossbag]

But seriously, I couldn’t give a stuff about greedy, arrogant, comparatively inexperienced self professed “professional pilots” viciously moaning on this thread about how badly treated they are on six figure salaries now bolstered in a recent 21% + + payrise here in the best country on Earth. F&ck off over there and give the rest of us some peace. Apparently according to half you imbeciles these companies are falling over themselves to have you.

Quite the ranter, doesn't like getting called out for what he is. A sellout with no spine.

[cLeArIcE]

Quite the ranter, doesn't like getting called out for what he is. A sellout with no spine.
Probably wonders why all the FOs keep calling in sick on him/her too.

[LostontheLOC]

Probably wonders why all the FOs keep calling in sick on him/her too.
​​​​​​
Life's a little easier being on the first 2 pages of the seniority list and a 78 type rating.

[ZebraFlyer]

Y’all make me glad I left. Seems like an alright deal all in all to me.

[C441]

…..moaning on this thread about how badly treated they are on six figure salaries now bolstered in a recent 21% + + payrise here in the best country on Earth.
21++% payrise?
Other Qantas group entities with upcoming EA's to be negotiated will be delighted hear this.

[Slugga]

Well the AFAP knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory once again, pushing this through when more favourable IR laws were on the way and have just been passed (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/government-strikes-deal-with-david-pocock-to-allow-it-to-pass-ir-laws-20221127-p5c1km.html)

All just amazing coincident that you'd rush this through. Looks like this union should've been included in that Royal Commission in '14.

[Colonel_Klink]

Well the AFAP knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory once again, pushing this through when more favourable IR laws were on the way and have just been passed (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/government-strikes-deal-with-david-pocock-to-allow-it-to-pass-ir-laws-20221127-p5c1km.html)



Can you share how you think multi-employer bargaining would have actually helped the JQ deal? From everything that I have read on the matter I don’t think this option would have been open to JQ pilots. And even if it were, it would be incredibly complex to try and bargain with QF / VA pilots give the significant differences in their terms and conditions.

[Slugga]

Can you share how you think multi-employer bargaining would have actually helped the JQ deal? From everything that I have read on the matter I don’t think this option would have been open to JQ pilots. And even if it were, it would be incredibly complex to try and bargain with QF / VA pilots give the significant differences in their terms and conditions.

Seriously....The threat that QF management has used for years against the group.

Perhaps changing your name to Sergeant Schultz would be more fitting

[Colonel_Klink]

Seriously....The threat that QF management has used for years against the group.

Perhaps changing your name to Sergeant Schultz would be more fitting

The threat of having flying transferred to another group was not made during the JQ negotiations.

It is a serious questions about the new legislative IR changes and how you think this would have affected the JQ negotiation. From everything that I have read, and from mates who work at law firms that specialise in IR - they can’t confidently say how what is being proposed is going to affect bargaining (especially for those employee groups that already have agreements that are currently in force). So I don’t know how you can be so sure in your assertions.

But then again - it’s pretty easy to just read a headline that talks about proposed IR changes, slag off the union and infer that it’s corrupt. 🙄

[Brakerider]

The threat of having flying transferred to another group was not made during the JQ negotiations.

It is a serious questions about the new legislative IR changes and how you think this would have affected the JQ negotiation. From everything that I have read, and from mates who work at law firms that specialise in IR - they can’t confidently say how what is being proposed is going to affect bargaining (especially for those employee groups that already have agreements that are currently in force). So I don’t know how you can be so sure in your assertions.

But then again - it’s pretty easy to just read a headline that talks about proposed IR changes, slag off the union and infer that it’s corrupt. 🙄

It seems like the new IR changes would benefit Flight Attendant groups more - as they have several different agreements covering employees doing the same job. I can't see the proposed changes affecting any pilot groups.

[RealSatoshi]

It seems like the new IR changes would benefit Flight Attendant groups more - as they have several different agreements covering employees doing the same job. I can't see the proposed changes affecting any pilot groups.
Well, let's just start by saying that flying a Boeing 787 = "The Same Job" as flying a Boeing 787 et al.
There are low cost passengers and low cost services, but Boeing and/or Airbus never designed Low Cost Pilot versions of the same type...

[ddrwk]

Multi-employer bargaining is just one of the areas that will change. There are a number of other changes that will assist Qantas group employees.

[hillbillybob]

Well, let's just start by saying that flying a Boeing 787 = "The Same Job" as flying a Boeing 787 et al.
There are low cost passengers and low cost services, but Boeing and/or Airbus never designed Low Cost Pilot versions of the same type...

yep, two agreements for 787

4 different agreements covering the flying of A320 family in the group...

2 different agreements covering Dash 8 operations.

[neville_nobody]

yep, two agreements for 787

4 different agreements covering the flying of A320 family in the group...

2 different agreements covering Dash 8 operations.

Give them a break they need to justify all the management somehow. If they streamline the company then they might have to fire a few managers and shrink a few departments which is completely unacceptable to anyone in a high management position.

[Window heat]

Give them a break they need to justify all the management somehow. If they streamline the company then they might have to fire a few managers and shrink a few departments which is completely unacceptable to anyone in a high management position.

live been in the company for a long time. The Dixon/Joyce model of chasing the virtual airline must be very top dollar heavy. Multiple types, training, sims, parts, managers blah blah blah. The wedge is the only goal but the cost and bull5h1t factor must be mind numbing.