Ryanair pilot strike

[BluSdUp]

I was wondering if anyone knows if all German bases are now manned by Ryanair pilots as opposed to contractors?
There is a rumor that no contractors are floated in to German bases anymore.
If true this is very interesting.
It looks like the local Tax man and the local law man is slowly waking up and forcing RYR to follow rules and regulation!

Keep in mind,: RYR has the potential for becoming the European South West, with excellent conditions for flightcrew.
But if continuing in the direction it is going now they will have 460 aircraft and no pilots!

I think MOL has made a big gamble on some crises leading to hoards of people knocking on his door after bankruptcy etc.
Unfortunately for him a lot of the good FOs ready for upgrade are using that same door to evacuate to greener pasture.

I am probably wrong as I have been so many times before with RYR, but ca 29 days after the summer-season 2019 we will see.
When every Cpt is maxed out at 100hrs the last 28 days.
Anyway
Cod is in the fjord, gone fishing
Regards
Cpt B

[gearlever]

FR HR

SPIEGEL, German only (http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/ryanair-eine-entlassene-flugbegleiterin-erzaehlt-a-1240008.html)

[flyingmed]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-6511589/Ryanair-fires-pilots-cabin-crew-Netherlands-refused-locate.html

[beachbumflyer]

I hope crews from other bases will support these crews. Next time it could happen to them.

[Alycidon]

And of course it is far more likely to happen to a small 4 aircraft base while pilots at the large 40 aircraft bases know that they are safe whatever action they call.

[BluSdUp]

With regards to any T&C in RYR they are slowly getting better as fare as I can see.

BUT ,it is a bit disconcerting that pilots that called in sick with Dr Certificate during x- mass and new year weeks are summary called to HQ for meetings!
This I have from reliable sources and in my opinion is a bit counter productive!

[Nightstop]

Regarding 8th January Cabin Crew strike, I received this:

Due to the efforts of the Spanish Government minimum services regulator, and the support of our pilots and cabin crew in Spain, we expect to operate a full schedule of flights to/from (and within Spain) on Tues 8th Jan (x-apple-data-detectors://0) next.

All passengers scheduled to fly should check in online as normal and arrive at their departure airport at least 2 hours prior to their time of scheduled departure.
—————

Watch this space..

[BluSdUp]

Matt283.
Interesting indeed,,,,,,
Old habits was my headline.
I happen to know a few down on the Islands, lots of good people!
Time for Action!

[fox niner]

Any news from the Eindhoven base? ECA are saying the EIN based pilots have been fired?

The Ryanair pilots are still officially employed by Ryanair. Ryanair is still paying their salaries.
There was a court session today in Eindhoven, and the pilots have claimed a large sum of money from Ryanair for damages.
Total sum of claims was a few million euro’s.
link: (in dutch)
https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/2/airlines/nederlandse-piloten-eisen-miljoenen-van-ryanair

[racedo]

The Ryanair pilots are still officially employed by Ryanair. Ryanair is still paying their salaries.
There was a court session today in Eindhoven, and the pilots have claimed a large sum of money from Ryanair for damages.
Total sum of claims was a few million euro’s.
link: (in dutch)
https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/2/airlines/nederlandse-piloten-eisen-miljoenen-van-ryanair

Their gamble has failed completely, which is ulimately what was going to happen.

I can see this case taking years with appeal after appeal and all the time Ryanair will claim they have to be still employed by them.

[fox niner]

Their gamble has failed completely, which is ulimately what was going to happen.

I can see this case taking years with appeal after appeal and all the time Ryanair will claim they have to be still employed by them.

Not necessarily. As I have said before in this thread, with my local knowledge of the dutch legal system, Ryanair is in for a rough ride.
It has been established, in court, that no matter WHAT Ryanair says, the company is obliged to adhere to dutch labor law. What will probably happen next?
Lets assume that the judge will decide that Ryanair has to pay.
Naturally Ryanair can appeal the decision. But there is a legal loophole in place here that will be implemented.It is called “uitvoerbaar bij voorraad”. It guarantees that Ryanair MUST pay up immediately, regardless of their possible decision to appeal.
It is there to protect the weaker party (the employees) against a dirty, lengthy, expensive legal path, that can be chosen by the stronger party, Ryanair.

[flyingmed]

Naturally Ryanair can appeal the decision. But there is a legal loophole in place here that will be implemented.It is called “uitvoerbaar bij voorraad”. It guarantees that Ryanair MUST pay up immediately, regardless of their possible decision to appeal.
It is there to protect the weaker party (the employees) against a dirty, lengthy, expensive legal path, that can be chosen by the stronger party, Ryanair.

That can be quite dangerous for the crew members involved. If Ryanair pay up now and then at some stage in the future Ryanair win an appeal the crew will face a very large bill. The money won this time around may be useless to them until all court dealings and appeals are completed.

[ph-sbe]

Not necessarily. As I have said before in this thread, with my local knowledge of the dutch legal system, Ryanair is in for a rough ride.
It has been established, in court, that no matter WHAT Ryanair says, the company is obliged to adhere to dutch labor law. What will probably happen next?
Lets assume that the judge will decide that Ryanair has to pay.
Naturally Ryanair can appeal the decision. But there is a legal loophole in place here that will be implemented.It is called “uitvoerbaar bij voorraad”. It guarantees that Ryanair MUST pay up immediately, regardless of their possible decision to appeal.
It is there to protect the weaker party (the employees) against a dirty, lengthy, expensive legal path, that can be chosen by the stronger party, Ryanair.

Your "legal loophole" is just common practice. What you fail to recognize that this is a preliminary judgement. It is no more or less than an initial, short review of the case meant to prevent immediate irrevocable damages to one party. It's nothing more than a single judge, basically saying "RyanAir failed to demonstrate the business need for base closure at this time". The judge wrote:

Ryanair heeft onvoldoende onderbouwd dat bedrijfseconomische redenen werkelijk de aanleiding zijn geweest voor het besluit tot sluiting.

Which translates to: "Ryanair failed to provide evidence to establish that the decision to close the base was made for financial reasons".

And this is the one item that makes or breaks the case. Earlier in the judgment, the judge acknowledged the freedom of the company to organize its business however it wants, as long as it is for financial reasons. The employees are stating that this is for retaliatory reasons, the company says it is not. If the company can establish that it was for financial reasons, that's part of doing business and the company is entitled to layoff all its local employees.

In other words: all that Ryanair has to do is to provide, during the "bodemprocedure", sufficient financial reasons for the closure of the base, and the case is gone. In fact, if they lose, the employees may be liable to refund Ryanair for all or part of the judgement collected with your "uitvoerbaar bij voorraad". Remember that a "kort geding" is a preliminary judgement of the case.

Being quite familiar with the Dutch legal system, my assessment is that Ryanair messed up bigtime by having amateurs handle this case. I'm sure that once they hire experienced local attorneys, they will get this case overturned in their favor. Again, all they have to establish is that the base is closed for financial reasons.

Which doesn't mean I think they aren't donkey butts. But mark my words, this is going to be the legal reality. I will link back to this post in 2-3 years from now.

[racedo]

Your "legal loophole" is just common practice. What you fail to recognize that this is a preliminary judgement. It is no more or less than an initial, short review of the case meant to prevent immediate irrevocable damages to one party. It's nothing more than a single judge, basically saying "RyanAir failed to demonstrate the business need for base closure at this time". The judge wrote:
I will link back to this post in 2-3 years from now.

If Pilots are clever they will seek a quick negotiated settlement, if not then they could remain as Ryanair employees for a couple of years, great salary but no right to fly with anybody else.

[fox niner]

Re: negotiated settlement. That might happen. The judge said in court: “I suggest both parties get together to reach an out-of-court agreement, or I will provide a case ruling on april 23.”
@ph-sbe: dont forget that this particular case is already a “bodemprocedure”, based on the provisional ruling of last november. On top of that comes the decision of the UWV that Ryanair has no right at all to fire them. Of course Ryanair would like to keep them “employed”. That is cheaper for them.
I have a gut feeling that that is not going to happen.
We have to wait and see. I expect an expensive ruling for Ryanair.

[racedo]

Re: negotiated settlement. That might happen. The judge said in court: “I suggest both parties get together to reach an out-of-court agreement, or I will provide a case ruling on april 23.”
@ph-sbe: dont forget that this particular case is already a “bodemprocedure”, based on the provisional ruling of last november. On top of that comes the decision of the UWV that Ryanair has no right at all to fire them. Of course Ryanair would like to keep them “employed”. That is cheaper for them.
I have a gut feeling that that is not going to happen.
We have to wait and see. I expect an expensive ruling for Ryanair.

Ruling is one thing but final judgement is another after appeals. If any pilot becomes employed assumming court rules in their favour then Ryanair can claim they lost nothing.

Old rule is negotiate before going to court if you can negotiate it avoids the lawyers costs and a desire to leave it in court for years and I would fully expect appeals to go down that route.