British Airways

[DaveReidUK]

The first of BA's LGW B772s to be "densified" returned from SIN last week in its new 32J/48W/252Y (332-seat) configuration, representing 47% more seats than its previous 14F/48J/40W/124Y layout. Hmmm.

[HH6702]

Wow that's some increase.

[KelvinD]

A 47% increase in seats is one way of looking at it. How about "slightly more than 100% increase" in Y Class? (from 124 to 252). Even more hmmm!

[Heathrow Harry]

thanks for the warning.....................

[TopBunk]

To be fair, that's comparing apples with pears.

The refit sees it becoming 3 class rather than 4 class.

It would be fairer to compare it to the existing 3 class layout of 40J/24W/219Y

[TURIN]

Perfect for regional routes then. :\

[OntimeexceptACARS]

The first of BA's LGW B772s to be "densified" returned from SIN last week in its new 32J/48W/252Y (332-seat) configuration

Had heard the new J on denisified aircraft would be same as the B77W aircraft.

Is there much difference if so?

We are flying on LGW-BGI in mid April, lucky to have got a deal in J, but looks like the conversion programme will take many months, so looks less likely we'll be on a refitted aircraft.

Thankful that we don't have to endure those rock hard new Y seats, they are a mare even on short haul.

[DaveReidUK]

To be fair, that's comparing apples with pears.

The refit sees it becoming 3 class rather than 4 class.

It would be fairer to compare it to the existing 3 class layout of 40J/24W/219Y

OK. I'm not entirely sure what it is that makes a "before" an "after" comparison of the same aircraft invalid.

But you're perfectly correct, it doesn't take a maths genius to work out that 47% more seats involves more than just changing Y from 9-abreast to 10-abreast.

[Buster the Bear]

5 seats less that the highest number on the 747 fleet!

[CabinCrewe]

.... and the CE middle table being removed- whatever next

[TopBunk]

DR UK

Well, IMHO, BA have operated different configuration 777-200's for ages.

Some have been 3-class (ie J/W/Y) and some 4-class (F/J/W/Y). The variant deployed has been a function primarily of the passenger mix on the route. Primarily leisure routes tend to have less demand for 'F' so have been 3-class. Primarily business, 4-class.

This aircraft has been changed from a 4-class to a 3-class configuration. Obviously removing 14'F' and 16'J' seats is going to release lots of space for additional 'W' and 'Y' seats, of which a percentage will be due to the 'densification' in 'Y', hence my comment about apples and pears.

[The96er]

... and the CE middle table being removed- whatever next

That's for the incoming A320NEO's, not the 777 refurbs.

[Flightrider]

Give me the A320s with the new seats any day compared to the seats on the ex bmi fleet at the BA seat pitch. Much better than the seriously unpleasant seats on the 319s.

[Skipness One Echo]

OK. I'm not entirely sure what it is that makes a "before" an "after" comparison of the same aircraft invalid.

But you're perfectly correct, it doesn't take a maths genius to work out that 47% more seats involves more than just changing Y from 9-abreast to 10-abreast.
Because it's changing subfleets from 4 class to 3. It won't be going to BGI anymore for example.

[CabinCrewe]

That's for the incoming A320NEO's, not the 777 refurbs.
When did 777s routinely have CE with middle blocked seats?!

[The96er]

When did 777s routinely have CE with middle blocked seats?!

The thread was referring to the 777 refurbs, to which you stated that the CE middle table was being removed, I merely stated that the club CE table removal is for the incoming A320neo's and not the 777's which the thread was about !

[TCX69]

32J/52W/252Y = 336 is the new configuration.

[DaveReidUK]

32J/52W/252Y = 336 is the new configuration.

Fair enough. Looks like BA must have amended its plans since the original announcement it made to the capital markets:

http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/British-Airways-Fleet.png

[Heathrow Harry]

Back to the horrible 3+4+3 layout

[Wycombe]

.....which EK (who operate way more 777's than anyone else) have made to work. Not saying it's good, but BA have to compete (and send a message to the likes of Norwegian that they are prepared to do so).

[Skipness One Echo]

Back to the horrible 3+4+3 layout
Not quite, the seats from the old 10 abreast AML days were way heavier and bulkier and there just wasn't the space. Nowadays, even the likes of Cathay (soon) and Air New Zealand are 10 abreast in the B77W as the seat is lighter. If you want the comfort of Economy from ye-olden-days then that's now Premium Economy, with a price still lower than some Y from ye-olde 19 hundred and 90s.

[DaveReidUK]

Fair enough. Looks like BA must have amended its plans since the original announcement it made to the capital markets

Better picture of the layout below (predates the change from 48W to 52W).

Looks like the extra 4W must be one more double on either side (since the middle seats are staggered in the W cabin and there's no space for an extra centre row).

I'm tempted to wonder whether the extra doubles require tweaking the 38" seat pitch in a downwards direction. That'll go down well ...

[BAladdy]

Better picture of the layout below (predates the change from 48W to 52W).

Looks like the extra 4W must be one more double on either side (since the middle seats are staggered in the W cabin and there's no space for an extra centre row).

I'm tempted to wonder whether the extra doubles require tweaking the 38" seat pitch in a downwards direction. That'll go down well ...
Wonder no more!!... I can confirm that the seat pitch is 38” throughout the whole WTP cabin. The diagram posted was originally released 15 months ago. It was used to give investors a idea of how the cabins would look once the cabin it had been reconfigured.

The cabin layout diagram posted shows 2 good size wardrobes on either side of the cabin aft of DR2. BA decided to have them removed. This freed up space for the two extra seats to be fitted on either side.
Because it's changing subfleets from 4 class to 3. It won't be going to BGI anymore for example.
When the 777 cabin reconfiguration was announced BA said that plannned to fit a high density cabin to some of its 3 class 777’s and LGW and they planned to fit 25 777’s with a 10 across Y cabin. BA plan to totally refurbish the remaining 3 4 class aircraft it has based at LGW however there are no plans to make turn then 3 class aircraft. The aircaft will be fitted a 10 across economy cabin which so it they will return to service in a new 14F/48J/40W/136Y configuration. The 4 class aircraft are not planned to have there

G-VIIO/R/P/T & U - are planned to be reconfigured into the 3 class HD configuration by the end of S18. The 3 remaining 4 class aircraft will then undergo there cabin refit during W18. BA do not plan to reconfigure the cabins of the RR powered 777’s operating from LGW before S19.

[BAladdy]

.... and the CE middle table being removed- whatever next
The first A321 fitted with the densified 218 seat cabin was returned to service this morning. The aircraft (G-MEDN) had previously been fitted with the 2 class midhaul configuration and under went its cabin refit up in PIK.

[DaveReidUK]

The cabin layout diagram posted shows 2 good size wardrobes on either side of the cabin aft of DR2. BA decided to have them removed. This freed up space for the two extra seats to be fitted on either side.

Ah, right -thanks for that. So as per the RHS in my artists impression below? :O

Interesting window configuration (assuming that hasn't also changed since the preview).

The drawings suggest that the window immediately aft of L2/R2 has been reinstated, but in common with (I think) every -200 the next frame (adjacent to the added double) is windowless.

The published plan also seems to imply window changes towards the rear of the first M cabin, for reasons that aren't immediately obvious.

Doubtless we'll soon see a recent exterior photo of G-VIIX which will confirm that, or not, as the case may be.

[nigel osborne]

Wonder no more!!... I can confirm that the seat pitch is 38” throughout the whole WTP cabin. The diagram posted was originally released 15 months ago. It was used to give investors a idea of how the cabins would look once the cabin it had been reconfigured.

The cabin layout diagram posted shows 2 good size wardrobes on either side of the cabin aft of DR2. BA decided to have them removed. This freed up space for the two extra seats to be fitted on either side.

When the 777 cabin reconfiguration was announced BA said that plannned to fit a high density cabin to some of its 3 class 777’s and LGW and they planned to fit 25 777’s with a 10 across Y cabin. BA plan to totally refurbish the remaining 3 4 class aircraft it has based at LGW however there are no plans to make turn then 3 class aircraft. The aircaft will be fitted a 10 across economy cabin which so it they will return to service in a new 14F/48J/40W/136Y configuration. The 4 class aircraft are not planned to have there

G-VIIO/R/P/T & U - are planned to be reconfigured into the 3 class HD configuration by the end of S18. The 3 remaining 4 class aircraft will then undergo there cabin refit during W18. BA do not plan to reconfigure the cabins of the RR powered 777’s operating from LGW before S19.

Getting to the stage when why would you want to fly with BA when they now have a similar product to low cost carriers.

All except their prices are not low cost ?

[BAladdy]

Getting to the stage when why would you want to fly with BA when they now have a similar product to low cost carriers.

All except their prices are not low cost ?

BA to launch no-frills fares for transatlantic flights | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5463095/BA-launch-no-frills-fares-transatlantic-flights.html)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/british-airways-is-going-budget-on-long-haul-flights/

[crewmeal]

Virgin are jumping on the band wagon as well

Virgin Atlantic to launch hand baggage only fares | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5476919/Virgin-Atlantic-launch-hand-baggage-fares.html)

[Cazza_fly]

Getting to the stage when why would you want to fly with BA when they now have a similar product to low cost carriers.

They give their 777 cabins a seriously much needed upgrade with brand new seats, new IFE systems, new lighting and add wifi yet they get slated? Yes they have added an extra seat per row in economy, but this is only on par with the likes of Emirates and the majority of other 777 operators these days, yet i don't hear many people slating them. I suppose its all part of perception from the media and it all coming at a time where BA have elsewhere been looking at reducing services? As for their World Traveller economy cabin, I think together with these new interiors they actually have a very strong and solid product... for now.

[Heathrow Harry]

Other airlines offer better service - if BA go head to head AND offer slave seating they'll get killed.......................

[Skipness One Echo]

Other airlines offer better service - if BA go head to head AND offer slave seating they'll get killed.......................
Slave seating in Y as in a 10 abreast B777 like Qatar Airways? Or Air New Zealand or American, United or Cathay? One assumes those slaves are slightly better fed, but the seats are the same.

[Downwind_Left]

Think BA are getting a lot of undue flak here for basically matching most of their competitors, a long time after most other airlines have gone 10-abreast on the 777. BA have clung on to 9 abreast on their 777s more than most.

People have bemoaned the BA 777 fleet for a long time... firstly it was the non-AVOD 777s from the mid-late 1990s (G-ZZZ... and early G-VII...) aircraft that had very small TV screens on a video-loop system. So they were refurbished around 2011/12 with the same seats and IFE as the 777-300ER. They're now addressing the next weakest link in the 777 fleet, which is the first generation AVOD systems... but at the same time the market has moved on... 10 abreast on the 777 is now the norm, and the competition in their core markets is changing and becoming more aggressive (Norwegian, Middle East carriers)

So yes they are increasing the seating density, but the IFE offering is much improved, as well as the rollout of high speed Wi-Fi. I think on balance a 10 abreast 777 is far less miserable than a 9 abreast 787, that everyone bar JAL/ANA operates. BA's new seat is identical to the one KLM use, and I'm sure many other airlines.

I'm not defending all BA's recent decisions here, but on this one I can't criticise too much. Adapt or die. Many major airlines have fallen by the wayside ignoring the competition, carrying on the same as always, and hoping the market would go back to how it used to be.

As a quick straw-poll, the following major airlines have or are installing 10 abreast seating on their long-haul 777s (ignoring domestic/regional aircraft)

Aeroflot
Air Canada
Air France
Air New Zealand
Alitalia
All Nippon
American
Austrian
BA
Cathay Pacific
China Airlines
China Eastern
Emirates
Etihad
EVA Air
Jet Airways
KLM
LATAM
Philippine Airlines
Qatar Airways
Saudia
Swiss
United

I did a long-haul flight on a 787 in economy recently (not BA)
It was a work trip, they only book Y, premium full, and upgrade to business was £3000 one way (no thanks!) It was the most miserable flight of my life, narrow seat and tight legroom. Saved only by decent, but not great, IFE, Wi-Fi and a bit of alcohol.

10-abreast 777? Move on... nothing to see here. There are far worse things for an economy traveller to worry about.

[crewmeal]

Think BA are getting a lot of undue flak here for basically matching most of their competitors, a long time after most other airlines have gone 10-abreast on the 777. BA have clung on to 9 abreast on their 777s more than most.

BA is getting flack because of the recent downturn in service. They have ancient 777's that have seen better days with dirty interiors, poor service standards, the downgrading of meals, 320's that are becoming sardine cans. It seems the seating arrangement is the straw that broke the camel's back. It seems to me that those complaining on here remember BA for what it used to be with high standards all round. Those that haven't flown BA will probably know no different.

[Wycombe]

They have ancient 777's

....along with "ancient" (but no doubt well looked-after) 744's and 763's. It's what BA (and the likes of LH and KL) do, and no doubt the accountants like it.

for what it used to be with high standards all round

Like it or not (and I don't either) those days are gone. BA need to compete, or would you rather that they re-trenched/specialised to a point where the average Joe can no longer (unless perhaps he has a generous employer...and there aren't many of them left either) afford to fly with the flag carrier?

[Skipness One Echo]

With the Cathedral hangar due to be demolished soon to make way for taxiway alterations to facilitate T2C, what are BA planning on replacing the lost maintenance capacity with?

Some of the ancient 763s are in a bad way in terms of cleanliness and furnishing as cost cutting is now in BA’s DNA. It’s a Walsh/Cruz mantra, and works well so long as you know what’s excessive cost and what is BAU. They made a conscious decision to accept a huge drop in standards on some fleets to save money because they were retiring the fleet. Lufthansa still fly their first A320 from 1989 which is kept to the same high standards as their new NEOs in terms of cleaning. BA have cut the fat and now have managers trying to impress by cutting the basics. That all comes from Mr Walsh and his Accenture cloned puppet CEO.

[Heathrow Harry]

Everyone likes to think their National Airline tries to represent the best of their country. BA also have a long history of advertising their high standards (BOAC,"the World's Favourite.." etc etc)

We just have to face it that any legacy airline with large pension liabilities and First World salary bills is going to have to change unless it gets a vast Govt subsidy

Regretfully no-one is happy paying their own money for a quality product - the LoCo success shows that clearly.

I've decided to stop moaning about legacy airlines and just ignore their advertising and accept it's LoCo forever now (unless my employer pays of course)

[Andy_S]

As for their World Traveller economy cabin, I think together with these new interiors they actually have a very strong and solid product... for now.

Have they got a toilet in the new WT+ cabin?

And have they improved the catering?

[DaveReidUK]

Some of the ancient 763s are in a bad way in terms of cleanliness and furnishing as cost cutting is now in BA’s DNA. It’s a Walsh/Cruz mantra, and works well so long as you know what’s excessive cost and what is BAU.

That's nothing new. I remember attending meetings 40-odd years ago to discuss the tatty state (both external and internal) of the fleet.

In those days (maybe still) BA had a wonderfully-named "Aircraft Appearance Manager", though sadly nobody thought to equip the unfortunate individual with the required magic wand.

[HZ123]

David Reid; Never truer words spoken I also remember a/c meetings forever in respect of dirty interiors. It has always been so, I remember a long time ago when deep cleaning of longhaul a/c was performed at route stations as it was so cheap! Sadly even that is not considered anymore due to cost. I fear it can only get worse and it will be best to travel in a set of overalls!

[BHX5DME]

Any truth in BA A321LRs from other UK airports ?

[The96er]

Any truth in BA A321LRs from other UK airports ?

All A321neoLR currently on order fro IAG are planned for Aer Lingus. If any are planned, and that's a big 'IF', they're unlikely to be under the BA brand more likely be under the 'Level' brand.

[Corrosion]

Not only interiors, or exterior appearance. Been working quite long time, +30years, as mechanic/engineer and sadly noted that general condition of aircrafts is not one of 1st item on many companies list anymore.
Don´t know about BA, but saw and worked on with some other previously well respected airliners and now a days their a/c:s are just in everyday or even crap condition.
Personally still old federation engineer, sometimes really struggle with all these beancounters ideas just to do only minimum maintenance. Just worried about new generation guys whose balls are not big enough yet to say NO if something is just a crap.

Sorry off-topic, but it may be connected to this tatty interior/exterior discussion.

[Planespeaking]

Not only interiors, or exterior appearance. Been working quite long time, +30years, as mechanic/engineer and sadly noted that general condition of aircrafts is not one of 1st item on many companies list anymore.
Don´t know about BA, but saw and worked on with some other previously well respected airliners and now a days their a/c:s are just in everyday or even crap condition.
Personally still old federation engineer, sometimes really struggle with all these beancounters ideas just to do only minimum maintenance. Just worried about new generation guys whose balls are not big enough yet to say NO if something is just a crap.

Sorry off-topic, but it may be connected to this tatty interior/exterior discussion.

The last time, apart from the third world, I saw aircraft as shabby as some BA airframes was PanAm just before it
went bust. Hardly an endorsement for the so called British 'flag carrier' !!

[LiamNCL]

First A320 NEO G-TTNA should be joining the fleet very soon.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/25969423517_c8ec33bfb7_o.jpg

[Peter47]

What do people think of BA's plans to offer no frills long hail fares with checked baggage costing extra? The way ahead or an over-reaction to others? I think that PeopleExpress did it back in the early 80s and maybe Laker but it died out. I'm sure that PE's charges were less in real terms than the £40 BA is advocating - can anyone remember what they were?

I suppose that it makes sense for those doing long weekends in places such as New York but I can see overhead bins getting full very quickly and problems if families get split up - it already happens with LoCos.

[Cazza_fly]

What do people think of BA's plans to offer no frills long hail fares with checked baggage costing extra? The way ahead or an over-reaction to others? I think that PeopleExpress did it back in the early 80s and maybe Laker but it died out. I'm sure that PE's charges were less in real terms than the £40 BA is advocating - can anyone remember what they were?

I suppose that it makes sense for those doing long weekends in places such as New York but I can see overhead bins getting full very quickly and problems if families get split up - it already happens with LoCos.

I can see why they're offering it. It gives them a chance to potentially increase what would have been their original base fare anyway by giving the image that you're getting an additional service. It also streamlines the product from the domestic and shorthaul offering too. Don't forget these "Basic" fares still include the full service on the booked flight - so on longhaul a full complimentary bar and meal or snack service is still provided in World Traveller.

However, any encouragement to increase cabin baggage in an aircraft cabin these days is a BIG negative. People fighting for overhead locker space, slow boarding and increased delays when it eventually has to be added to the hold anyway are just some of the headaches it creates. I know the 747/777 aircraft suffer from lack of overhead locker space "down the back" on busy flights, but this will also translate into further issues on the A320 fleet as passengers transfering onto their onward connecting flights with the same "Basic" fare to/from the UK and Europe...

[CabinCrewe]

6x ex TAM/LATAM 773's for BA Fact or fiction?

[ETOPS]

6x ex TAM/LATAM 773's for BA

Some fact some fiction.

Previous info from BA shows 3 A model 772s leaving the fleet to be replaced by 3 77Ws. They could be from TAM or EK - other operators are available.

Willie Walsh has recently been singing the praises of the new build 77W fleet so a boost from 3 to 6 sounds feasible.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

On the LGW B777 front, I flew LGW-BGI in CW last week and, whilst I expected a less than Emirates experience, I was overall pleasantly surprised by the nick of G-VIIW. Primary reason for splashing out on CW was sleeping space. One glaring error was the lack of charging for devices, either plugs or USB. CC explained that there was a socket that needed some kind of adapter, but they did not keep them onboard.

In 2018 in long haul that's got to be one of the few airlines still doing this.

[AirportPlanner1]

In 2018 in long haul that's got to be one of the few airlines still doing this.

I flew Lufthansa late last year, curiously the old A340 had this installed whereas the A380 didn’t.

[vectisman]

As more refurbished 777s come online at Gatwick the power socket issues should be resolved.

[Heathrow Harry]

Amazing!

A mate tells me they're now pretty standard on BUSES in Reading............ and free

[EK77WNCL]

Some of the newest Go Northeast buses have free wifi, free charging (USB and plug) and interactive table seats where you can play things like snakes and ladders via an app... Almost enough to make me want to get the bus

[Plane.Silly]

And with some of the delays you hear about BA, may even be quicker too :)

[Heathrow Harry]

And you can buy yr own sandwich s....

[spacedog]

BA to commence direct service to Durban from 29th Oct
3 x weekly on a B787-8

[BAladdy]

BA’s 2 x Weekly service to Luanda will end 07JUN18. The final LHR-LAD will depart 07JUN18 and the final LAD-LHR will depart 09JUN18

[vctenderness]

Luanda was a route based on oil traffic has the money dried up?

[BAladdy]

BA have made the following changes to LHR W18 Schedule which is due to begin 28OCT18 over the last few weeks

New Routes

Durban - 3 x Weekly service begins 29OCT18.
Marrakech - 4 x Weekly service begins 28OCT18. Flights from LGW will continue up to 8 x weekly

Suspended Route

Palermo - Flights suspended for W18. Was originally planned to operate 2 x weekly

Frequency Increased

Barcelona - From 46 to 53 x Weekly
Berlin - From 53 to 55 x Weekly
Budapest - From 20 to 23 x Weekly
Gibraltar - From 9 to 13 x Weekly
Larnaca - From Daily to 10 x Weekly
Las Palmas - From 1 to 2 x Weekly
Lyon - From 21 to 23 x Weekly
Malaga - From 4 to 6 x Weekly
Miami - From 2 to 3 x Daily
Prague - From 27 to 34 x Weekly
Rome - From 41 to 42 x Weekly
Santiago - From 4 to 5 x Weekly
Stuttgart - From 13 x weekly to 2 x daily
Vienna - From 34 to 36 x Weekly
Washington - From 2 x Daily to 17 x Weekly
Zurich - From 42 to 44 x Weekly

Frequency Decreased

Aberdeen - From 53 to 47 x Weekly
Bilbao - From 2 to 1 x Daily
Dallas - From Daily to 6 x Weekly. 4 class 772ER replacing 747.
Frankfurt - From 46 to 45 x Weekly
Glasgow - From 60 to 58 x Weekly
Las Vegas - From 10 x Weekly to Daily
Muscat - From 5 to 4 x Weekly
Newcastle - From 41 to 34 x Weekly
Paris - From 53 to 47 x Weekly
Reykjavik- From 14 to 11 x Weekly
Stockholm - From 34 to 33 x Weekly
Warsaw - From 14 to 13 x Weekly

Terminal Changes

Warsaw - Flights will switch from T3 to T5 from 28OCT18

[Hussar 54]

Luanda was a route based on oil traffic has the money dried up?


No...Not really...Our OPS in Angola are currently busier than we've ever been, and we're expecting them to get even busier as the price of crude is going to go only one way for the next 12 months or so...

I go to Luanda about five or six times per year, always AF or KL, and the flights are always stuffed to the gunnels.

I think that in BA's case, probably it's difficult to keep a business heavy ( Bosses in Business Class, rig workers in Economy class ) route profitable when it's only operating two days per week - it needs either more frequency or no frequency. The rig workers, who do roughly 6 on / 2 off don't want to be hanging around for a couple of days in Luanda before being able to set off for home, especially as Luanda is quite probably the most expensive city that I've ever stayed / worked in.

[vctenderness]

Well originally BA thought it was an important enough route for development that they shipped a team from South Africa to upgrade the rooms in the hotel to be used by crew to an acceptable standard. This included double glazing the windows!

[Sam Chipperfield]

British Airways also doing 4x a week extra Joburg flights with the 787-8 so on some days there will be 3x a day Joburg Flights

[DaveReidUK]

Well originally BA thought it was an important enough route for development that they shipped a team from South Africa to upgrade the rooms in the hotel to be used by crew to an acceptable standard. This included double glazing the windows!

Whereas on less important routes, BA doesn't care about tired pilots ... ?

[Peter47]

I see that BA is dropping LHR - Calgary for the winter. I suppose that there is not much traffic during the winter months but I would have thought that it would also mean losing corporate contracts and that a route like that really needs to be served year round to be attractive to business customers. (At the same time I cannot see how Air Transat makes money on London - Toronto during the winter.)

[renfrew]

The present 787 situation could well be involved.BA are very short of aircraft.
3 Qatar 330's are in use.
And there are numerous chartered aircraft on short haul.

[Heathrow Harry]

I see that BA is dropping LHR - Calgary for the winter. I suppose that there is not much traffic during the winter months but I would have thought that it would also mean losing corporate contracts and that a route like that really needs to be served year round to be attractive to business customers. (At the same time I cannot see how Air Transat makes money on London - Toronto during the winter.)
always been abit touch and go in winter. Even air canada used to alternate lhr calgary Vancouver with lhr .Edmonton Vancouver. Never understand why Alberta doesn't push the skiing more in winter

[GROUNDHOG]

Flew Calgary to Heathrow a couple of weeks ago, I can see why they are dropping it! Loads of space in PE and C so Y must have been nearly empty too!

[Vokes55]

Had a full load in Club and WTP on my LHR-YYC flight two weeks ago. The return from Vancouver a week later had over 100 spare seats on the A380.

Overcapacity perhaps, what with all the competition down at Gatwick.

[horatio_b]

More bad publicity for BA:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44546400

[GLAEDI]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/750x1334/317d76b7_bbb1_4289_9bab_304f18568e79_8d2c7c1ce3504c270bee952 accc5f331ebfcfbc9.png
Eastern E170 operating flights to Glasgow. I presume other routes from Gatters. Looking at the price they‘re definitely trying to make sure no one books £207 single!! The later BA operated flight on the A320 is £34.

[crewmeal]

I hope someone takes BA to court over this. If you saw something in a shop and wanted to buy it and the keeper changed the price that would be illegal under the trade descriptions act. In my view (if correct) a glitch or mistake is no excuse for cancelling the ticket.

[PAXboy]

Yet another IT failure. But will anyone internally pay the price? On past evidence, No.

[VickersVicount]

Looks like the BA LGW-OAK DY spoiler is ditched. The S19 bookings now 'suspended' in addition to W18/19
Doubt we'll see that back in BA colours.
Wonder if LGW could get something else?

[01475]

I hope someone takes BA to court over this. If you saw something in a shop and wanted to buy it and the keeper changed the price that would be illegal under the trade descriptions act. In my view (if correct) a glitch or mistake is no excuse for cancelling the ticket.

I just can't imagine what they are thinking of. Ok; the other flights are from Luton, but you don't go and say a price is an obvious mistake when other airlines charge roughly that amount!

[bycrewlgw]

I hope someone takes BA to court over this. If you saw something in a shop and wanted to buy it and the keeper changed the price that would be illegal under the trade descriptions act. In my view (if correct) a glitch or mistake is no excuse for cancelling the ticket.

If you take an item to a till and you’re informed that the price is wrong, the shopkeeper can legally refuse to sell the item to you. You don’t have a contract until you’ve paid for the item. You can ask for it to be honoured but no guarantee. If you’ve already paid, the shopkeeper can request to get it back but you can refuse.

With purchasing online, the supplier will state when a contract exists. That is when they’ve either sold you the item or when it’s dispatched. It’ll be in their terms.

If its confirmed that you don’t have a contract until it’s sent then it can be cancelled if you do it can only be cancelled if the supplier recognises that they’ve made a genuine and honest mistake on their part.

With this, it’s a very grey area. BA would need to confirm that it’s genuine and honest which would be difficult to do. As others have said £40 v £400 is an easy mistake to make but will the pricing that they’ve sold the seats for it would be hard to prove.

They would also need to confirm when the contract exists. It should be when you pay.

They should have done the morally right thing, and the best thing for PR, and honoured the tickets. Yet they’d have taken a hit on profit but now they potentially have up to 2000 empty seats.

(Not forgetting the £200,000 in vouchers they’ve handed out too)

[Welshtraveller]

I am trying to find out British Airways policy for delayed baggage on a return journey. The guidance from the Civil Aviation Authority says:-“Most airlines will reimburse you for the bare essentials you need to buy when your bag is delayed. If you are away from home this may cover essential toiletries, underwear and laundry costs. If your bag is delayed on your return home, airlines may consider that your losses were less as you had clothes and other essentials available to you. Some airlines have a daily rate which they will pay per day your bag is delayed”.

I would like to know if BA has a daily rate for delayed baggage (as above). If so how much?

I am currently waiting for my bags which will not be received for a minimum of 10 days. Apart from lots of telephone calls I have no plans to claim any "essential items" as I am home.
Thanks for any advice.

[wowzz]

I am trying to find out British Airways policy for delayed baggage on a return journey. The guidance from the Civil Aviation Authority says:-“Most airlines will reimburse you for the bare essentials you need to buy when your bag is delayed. If you are away from home this may cover essential toiletries, underwear and laundry costs. If your bag is delayed on your return home, airlines may consider that your losses were less as you had clothes and other essentials available to you. Some airlines have a daily rate which they will pay per day your bag is delayed”.

I would like to know if BA has a daily rate for delayed baggage (as above). If so how much?

I am currently waiting for my bags which will not be received for a minimum of 10 days. Apart from lots of telephone calls I have no plans to claim any "essential items" as I am home.
Thanks for any advice.
I think the advice you got on the TA forum, basically telling you that you will get nothing, will be the same as the advice you get here.

[Welshtraveller]

That’s fine, I just want my bags but I still think the service provided by BA is awful with very poor customer service.

[compton3bravo]

It looks like the cheap ticket debacle is far worse than first thought. Reports are now suggesting up to 10,000 tickets were sold many through agents. Another fine mess!

[PAXboy]

Managers need not worry - their jobs are safe ...

[sergy2k]

Question on the new NEOs; Why are they all ploughing the same routes continuously? From what I can tell, they only ever fly LHR, LIS, WAW or BUD.

[Cazza_fly]

Question on the new NEOs; Why are they all ploughing the same routes continuously? From what I can tell, they only ever fly LHR, LIS, WAW or BUD.

They are keeping them assigned to T3 and the above mentioned routes where possible due to their configuration. With a densified cabin, a lower Club Europe maximum capacity and different galley plans, it makes complete sense to restrict them to a set of routes until the fleet grows and more of the current fleet is reconfigured. It would be a logistical nightmare assigning them to different routes every day not know if there will be too many CE pax booked or if they have the correct galley plans assigned for the caterers.

[bjones4]

BA have today ordered (via an undisclosed leasing company) three more 777-300ERs

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/boeing-british-airways-announce-commitment-for-three-777-airplanes-2018-07-19

[CabinCrewe]

interesting. 1980/90's technology. Wonder how long the leases are for?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

BA came late to the B77W, much like launch customer United who will take their 18th frame this year.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Aren't the A35K and the B77W very similar in size and capability? The B77W would be cheaper I'm sure, but I'm with CC on this, think they are sacrificing longer term benefits for short term price. But hey, anyone can be an armchair economist!

[chaps1954]

When are they taking delivery as that could be a large reason?

[DaveReidUK]

When are they taking delivery as that could be a large reason?

Two reportedly due for delivery next year, the third in 2020.

[Aksai Oiler]

Not a surprise under the circumstances, so a couple of slots free for something else?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45288659

[goldeneye]

LCY - DUB dropped?

Just tried booking series of Cityflyer return flights from City to Dublin. BA app returns 'no longer available from City, alternatives from Heathrow'.

Have I missed something, have they dropped the LCY - DUB services, when did they officially announce this change to services? Link?

Working fine for me on app and website. Tried various dates to end of the year.

[mik3bravo]

Working fine for me on app and website. Tried various dates to end of the year.
Correction! App seems ok again. Was searching loads of different dates last night and this morning, all saying no longer available from City, try Heathrow. But you are correct, it now seems to be working ok and the route seems ok and available. Not sure what the problem may have been, but glad it's all ok now. I deleted my original message to remove confusion on this thread. As you were.

[TURIN]

Oh dear!

BA Loses Customer Data (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45440850)

[mik3bravo]

Oh dear!

BA Loses Customer Data (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45440850)
Hmmm. Seems to be a couple of different things going wrong. One wonders if state sponsored mischievous efforts are a factor in all these matters?

[PAXboy]

The only 'state' involved is the Board of BA who failed to take the major failure of systems in 2017 as the signal to change people and plans.

[Aksai Oiler]

Another in a long line of cox£uk under the stewardship of Cruz. As I am personally affected by this BS, and have received the email, I am distinctly unhappy and want to see this idiot gone, it won’t make much difference to the situation but it will make me feel better

[mik3bravo]

Another in a long line of cox£uk under the stewardship of Cruz. As I am personally affected by this BS, and have received the email, I am distinctly unhappy and want to see this idiot gone, it won’t make much difference to the situation but it will make me feel better

His number is up, imho.
He's not in control of the business, too many serious issues have occurred. Board need to find a suitable leader.

[davidjohnson6]

Does the board of BA or IAG really actually care about this ?
The average individual passenger (including me) who has had to get their credit card replaced finds it annoying but this will probably all blow over in the press by next week. Information Commissioner Office will impose a token fine as a slap on the wrist, bug in the website gets fixed and whole things gets forgotten about by shareholders

[SWBKCB]

Does the board of BA or IAG really actually care about this ?

Maybe not this, but the constant drip drip of such incidences costs

[mik3bravo]

Repeat after me . . . G D P R
FINES & PENALTIES hit them in their corporate pocket. That will teach them to get their IT under control rather quickly. The only thing they will take notice of is a short sharp boot to the proverbial commercial nuts!

[KelvinD]

For a while, I was employed by a debt collection company (tracing people, not breaking fingers!) and my memory of the data protection legislation included something about personal data not being held any longer than needed for the immediate business at hand. This meant that once it has served its purpose, it had to be destroyed. If my memory is correct, then one has to wonder why BA feel it necessary to retain stuff such as the 3 digit security code from the rear of the cards.

[friartuck]

yes but you may have ticked a box (such as "terms & conditions") that allows them to do what they like................

[KelvinD]

I think I now may have the answer to my question. According to a report on BBC just now, it seems the hackers installed a bit of software into the BA web site which recorded the live data as it was being input by the customers. I had assumed, until then, that they had found their way into a BA database and downloaded it from that.
friartuck: Ticking T&C boxes would still not allow companies to hold your financial data for any length of time beyond the limits specified in the DP rules. Contact details would be a different issue and ticking boxes will allow them to hold stuff such as email contacts, location etc.

[inOban]

And I think the malware was in an advertisement, so perhaps the liability lies with advertiser. I thought that the boss was quite open and 'upfront' on his interview on R4 this morning.

[AirportPlanner1]

And I think the malware was in an advertisement, so perhaps the liability lies with advertiser. I thought that the boss was quite open and 'upfront' on his interview on R4 this morning.

Surely liability would still lay with BA, as it’s their site they’ve allowed the ad on. A bit like if you sub in an aircraft which goes tech, you still have ultimate responsibility to get the pax home and compensate them

[Dannyboy39]

Sure we don’t want to rename this thread a BA hamster wheel?

I travel all the time like many on here and will happily moan about using Ryanair - but most of the time they will get me there on time, no issues.

I have used BA twice in the last year - first time a return to TLV; there was a total baggage system failure. And now my second trip to NCL, this happens. It’s not really good enough is it?

So yesterday I had to block my card before going travelling again as banks don’t send cards to hotels or other locations which aren’t your home. Frustrating.

[CabinCrewe]

rumours of Osaka for S19 787 route 4/weekly

[canberra97]

rumours of Osaka for S19 787 route 4/weekly

If it turns out to be true it will be good to see Osaka return to the airlines network and it's an obvious choice of destination in my opinion for British Airways to expand upon and will be a good addition to it's current flights to the Far East.

[racedo]

Repeat after me . . . G D P R
FINES & PENALTIES hit them in their corporate pocket. That will teach them to get their IT under control rather quickly. The only thing they will take notice of is a short sharp boot to the proverbial commercial nuts!

BA were asking people to post personal details on Twitter this summer even after being told they breaking GDPR.
Finally after media became involved they relented.

[racedo]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-6196915/Has-Ryanair-chief-asked-BA-boss-job.html#comments

Book writer out to sell a story and Daily Fail fall for it.

Aside from
Wasn't secret as meeting between 2 competing airline senior people can't be. Think lawyers for both sides will have detailed descriptions of what was discussed, by whom and under what parameters.
Anybody who thinks not then has no idea of Anti Competitive Legislation and bearing in mind BA has forked out something close to $1 billion in price fixing lawsuits over last 30 years their lawyers will know the law.

[crewmeal]

British Airways lays off Hong Kong based cabin crew with immediate effect. Not the best of decisions in my view.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/09/27/british-airways-lays-off-85-hong-kong-based-cabin-crew-cut-costs/

[wiggy]

A lot of staff agree with you, and sentiment internally has not been helped by the timing of that announcement.

It certainly appeared to many that the company tried to quietly sneak out the announcement of those redundancies on the very same day as they made a much bigger deal of announcing the name of the designer of their new uniform.

[davidjohnson6]

BA to launch a route from Heathrow to Charleston in South Carolina 2x weekly from April 2019
Yes I was surprised too

[VickersVicount]

Would have thought Charlotte might have trumped Charleston.
Oh well, amazing what short term incentives and subsidies might produce...
Will it work... who can tell.

[Flightrider]

Must be a heck of a lot of Boeing and Rolls-Royce folk travelling back and forward fixing them there 787s.

[Plane mad 134]

There must be as my flight to London from Toronto has been changed from a B787-9 to a B777-200.

[canberra97]

There must be as my flight to London from Toronto has been changed from a B787-9 to a B777-200.

The above comment that you replied to was in reference to the fact that the B787 final assembly line is at the Boeing plant based at Charleston SC.

Not sure if that has any significance to your plane change though!

[LBIA]

The following changes for summer 2019 were posted on the BA website yesterday.

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/traveltrade/bookings-policies/policies/askba?faqid=6913


LONDON HEATHROW

NEW ROUTES
Preveza (PVK) Greece - 2 flights per week between 26 May and 29 September 2019
Bastia (BIA) France - 1 flight per week between 25 May and 28 September 2019

FREQUENCY INCREASES
Seattle (SEA) - increased frequency from 12 flight to 14 flights per week from 31 March 2019
Santiago (SCL) - increased frequency from 4 flights to 5 flights per week from 31 March 2019
Nashville (BNA) - increased frequency from 5 flights to 7 flights per week from 22 April 2019
Marseille (MRS) - increased frequency from 21 flights to 28 flights per week between 31 March and 26 October 2019
Budapest (BUD) - increased frequency from 28 flights to 32 flights per week between 1 April to 25 October 2019
Gibralter (GIB) - increased frequency from 11 flights to 14 flights per week between 2 April to 24 October 2019
Palermo (PMO) - increased frequency from 3 flights to 5 flights per week between 17 April to 28 September 2019
Amsterdam (AMS) - increased frequency from 54 flights to 55 flights per week between 6 April to 26 October 2019
Malaga (AGP) - increased frequency from 8 flights to 9 flights per week between 6 April to 26 October 2019

FREQUENCY DECREASES
Phoenix (PHX) - decreased frequency from 10 flights to 7 flights per week from 31 March 2019
Copenhagen (CPH) - decreased frequency from 46 flights to 39 flights per week between 31 March to 26 October 2019
Warsaw (WAW) - decreased frequency from 18 flights to 14 flights per week between 1 April to 25 October 2019
Helsinki (HEL) - decreased frequency from 14 flights to 7 flights per week between 31 March to 26 October 2019
Hamburg (HAM) - decreased frequency from 32 flights to 31 flights per week between 6 April to 26 October 2019
Paris (CDG) - decreased frequency from 51 flights to 50 flights per week between 6 April to 26 October 2019

CHANGE OF DAY
Dubai (DXB) - BA105/104 change of day from Tues, Wed, Thu, Sat & Sun to Mon, Wed, Thu, Sat & Sun
Nassau-Grand Cayman (NAS-GCM) - BA252/253 change of day from Mon, Thu, Fri & Sun to Mon, Thu, Fri & Sat

TERMINAL CHANGE
Warsaw (WAW) - terminal change at London Heathrow from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5
Chani (CHQ) - terminal change at London Heathrow from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5

AIRPORT CLOSURE
Milan (LIN) - airport closed for summer period so LHR & LCY flights to LIN are now closed for sale from the 28 July to 26 October 2019

LONDON GATWICK

NEW ROUTES
Kos (KGS) - 3 flights per week during Summer 2019 only, operating Tuesday, Wednesday and Saturday

FREQUENCY INCREASES
Cancun (CUN) - increased frequency from 3 flights to 4 flights per week from 31 March 2019
Seville (SVQ) - increased frequency to 9 flights per week with additional 2 flights per week operating on Monday and Saturday from 1 April 2019
Cagliari (CAG) - increased frequency to 7 flights per week with 1 additional flight per week operating on Wednesday from 24 April 2019
Palma (PMI) - increased frequency to 10 flights per week with 1 additional flight per week operating on Thursday from 30 May 2019
Marrakech (RAK) - increased frequency to 9 flights per week with 1 additional flight per week from 31 March 2019

FREQUENCY DECREASES
Lanzarote (ACE) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 5 flights per week
Malaga (AGP) decrease by 3 flights per week to 36 flights per week
Alicante (ALC) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 23 flights per week
Madeira (FNC) - decrease by 2 flights per week to 8 flights per week
Genoa (GOA) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 6 flights per week
Jersey (JER) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 34 flights per week
Nice (NCE) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 18 flights per week
Palma (PMI) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 10 flights per week
Seville (SVQ) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 9 flights per week
Thessaloniki (SKG) - decrease by 1 flight per week to 7 flights per week
Tenerife (TFS) - decrease by 2 flights per week to 11 flights per week
Venice (VCE) - decrease by 2 flights per week to 27 flights per week

LONDON CITY
​​​​​​
FREQUENCY INCREASES
Berlin (TXL) - increased frequency by an additional 1 flight per week between 5 April to 14 June and 13 September to 25 October 2019
Edinburgh (EDI) - increased frequency by an additional 4 flights per week between 1 April to 20 June and 9 September to 24 October 2019
Ibiza (IBZ) - increased frequency by an additional 1 flight per week between 6 April to 26 October 2019

FLIGHT CANCELLATIONS
Manchester (MAN) - BA7310 cancelled between 16 May and 26 September 2019 & BA7337 cancelled between 19 May and 22 September 2019

AIRPORT CLOSURE
Milan (LIN) - airport closed for summer period so LHR & LCY flights to LIN are now closed for sale from the 28 July to 26 October 2019[/SPOILER]

LONDON STANSTED

FLIGHT CANCELLATIONS
Ibiza (IBZ) - BA2291/BA2337 cancelled between 18 May and 26 October 2019 & BA2336 cancelled between 19 May and 26 October 2019
Florence (FLR) - BA2331/BA2330 cancelled between 19 May and 20 October 2019
Palma (PMI) - BA2295/BA2294 cancelled between 4 May and 11 May 2019

Customers will be moved onto the closest suitable British Airways operated services from other London airports. Alternatively, standard customer guidelines apply

BIRMINGHAM (CITYFLYER)

ROUTE SUSPENSIONS
Florence (FLR) - BA7024/BA7025 suspended from 18 May 2019
Palma (PMI) - BA7028/BA7029 & BA7023 suspended from 18 May 2019 & BA7029 from 19 May 2019
Malaga (AGP) - BA7030/BA7031 suspended from 18 May 2019

BRISTOL (CITYFLYER)

ROUTE SUSPENSIONS
Florence (FLR) - BA7016/BA7017 suspended from 18 May 2019
Palma (PMI) - BA7022/BA7023 suspended from 18 May 2019
Malaga (AGP) - BA7020/BA7021 & BA7340 suspended from 18 May 2019 & BA7021 from 19 May 2019

MANCHESTER (CITYFLYER)

FLIGHT CANCELLATIONS
Malaga (AGP) - BA7317/7318 cancelled between 17 May and 27 September 2019. Customers will be moved onto flights on the same route on the following day.
Ibiza (IBZ) - BA7312 cancelled between 18 May and 28 September 2019 & BA7313 cancelled between 17 May and 27 September 2019 & BA7314 cancelled between 19 May and 29 September 2019 & BA7315 cancelled between 17 May and 28 September

[daz211]

That’s a lot or cancelled and suspended flights.
Stansted looks like a massive reduction based on past summer seasons.
are we seeing the Jet2 effect ?
I was hoping for a slight increased is services to be honest.

[brian_dromey]

That’s a lot or cancelled and suspended flights.
Stansted looks like a massive reduction based on past summer seasons.
are we seeing the Jet2 effect ?
I was hoping for a slight increased is services to be honest.
Some suggestion that the weekend routes were causing operational problems at LCY - which is Cityflyer's core business.

Big adjustments at Gatwick, a net loss of 12 weekly rotations so far, Im sure there are a lot of time changes compared to last year too. Of course this is to be expected as BA adjusts the schedule to take account of the Monarch slots. I imagine there will be new routes and frequency increases on other routes as BA finalises the fleet plan and possible lease-ins for next summer.

[daz211]

So with all the suspensions and cancellations, how many rotations have gone for all airports and where are the aircraft going. I’m sure at peak times Stansted had 3 aircraft operating.

[STN406]

So with all the suspensions and cancellations, how many rotations have gone for all airports and where are the aircraft going. I’m sure at peak times Stansted had 3 aircraft operating.

Yes we had 3 weekend based in the peak summer and also had the flight operating in and out of Milan too. The passengers figures for these flight was very good all summer in the 80-90’s for most flights. There is a drop of now as the season is coming to a close but still figures in the 50-70’s region.
I can understand if it is affecting the LCY operation to scale back to consolidate. But seems a massive decreases for STN. Surely with BRS and BHX already having had service cut for next year that would have been able to improve the LCY operation of there has be issues with the weekend bases.
I myself was expecting a small increase at STN for next summer on current routes and maybe a few others routes added maybe JMK, JTR, JSI.

[inOban]

It must have been awkward and expensive to locate crew at MAN/BHX etc for the weekend. It seems that the weekend Cityflyer services from EDI,and I assume GLA , will operate next year, but these have a locally based pool of crew.

[compton3bravo]

On behalf of everybody on here may I thank LBIA for taking the time and effort to correlate all that information.

[Lon12]

Rumour

BA will move BIO-LHR route to LGW

any information about that?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

So with all the suspensions and cancellations, how many rotations have gone for all airports and where are the aircraft going. I’m sure at peak times Stansted had 3 aircraft operatingParked I suspect, just like every summer since 2009 when they were formed. I myself suffered a four delay on a GLA-LCY route as the crew was not rested from their weekend sun flights. Once the core LCY starts taking a hit, this was always going to be scaled back IMHO.

[Keanaga]

No flying many rotations.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

No flying many rotations.
I mean that for summer 2019 the LCY based fleet will not be flying out of BHX/BRS and will likely be parked at the weekend to mitigate the impact on core LCY Sunday schedules which took a hit this year.

[RexBanner]

Rumour

BA will move BIO-LHR route to LGW

any information about that?


Confirmed rumour.

[Lon12]

And New route to Valencia from Heathrow (9 weekly)

[canberra97]

And New route to Valencia from Heathrow (9 weekly)

Is this in place of Gatwick to Valencia or in addition to?

[Lon12]

In place of...

[pamann]

What’s the source of info in relation to the supposed cancelled routes with CityFlyer?

I’ve just looked at STN-AGP/PMI/FAO/FLR for instance and they’re all still taking bookings for Summer 2019.

[toledoashley]

And New route to Valencia from Heathrow (9 weekly)

Bilbao, Almeria and Minorca are moving to Gatwick
Valencia, Barcelona and Pisa are moving to Heathrow.

[OltonPete]

What’s the source of info in relation to the supposed cancelled routes with CityFlyer?

I’ve just looked at STN-AGP/PMI/FAO/FLR for instance and they’re all still taking bookings for Summer 2019.


BA themselves and the link is below if it opens

BA (https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/traveltrade/bookings-policies/policies/askba?faqid=6913)

Malaga and Faro not mentioned but you are right they are all still bookable from STN although nothing surprising in that these days as most airlines seem slow to remove flights from sale at times.

Pete

[BAladdy]

What’s the source of info in relation to the supposed cancelled routes with CityFlyer?

I’ve just looked at STN-AGP/PMI/FAO/FLR for instance and they’re all still taking bookings for Summer 2019.

​​​BA have not dropped any of the routes that they operate from STN. They are however reducing the frequency of there flights to FLR and IBZ In S19

FLR - Frequency reducing from 2 x Weekly (Sat & Sun) to Weekly (Sat) for S19

IBZ - Frequency reduced to Weekly for S19. BACF operated 3 x weekly an IBZ-STN and 2 x weekly STN-IBZ during S18.

BACF’s flight to AGP, FAO, NCE, PMI and TXL from STN are planned to continue operating Weekly for S19, as they gave this year
BA themselves and the link is below if it opens

BA (https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/traveltrade/bookings-policies/policies/askba?faqid=6913)

Malaga and Faro not mentioned but you are right they are all still bookable from STN although nothing surprising in that these days as most airlines seem slow to remove flights from sale at times.

Pete
BA removed the STN flights that they have cancelled for S19 a few days ago. The traveltrade post states that they have made a number of flight cancellations to flight from STN for S19. Unfortunately the info displayed is not accurate as it doesn’t say the day of operation that they are cancelled on. The only reason i know this is because I was booked to travel next June on one of the cancelled flights from IBZ to STN flights and I have been rebooked on the flight currently available to book online.

The agent that rebooked me said that if BA had decided to drop any of the STN routes then they would be listed under the Route Suspension.

[Asturias56]

Was on a BA 777 last weèk in business

Really well used look to the cabin which was looking shabby... v poor compared to the opposition i thought... and the layout ,......

[Porky Speedpig]

Was on a BA 777 last weèk in business

Really well used look to the cabin which was looking shabby... v poor compared to the opposition i thought... and the layout ,......

Whilst not disagreeing, not everything is rosy with the opposition. I was on an Etihad 777 last week in business. My seat was inoperative, the IFE had to be rebooted 3 times and the forward J class lavatory was unusable for 90 per cent of the flight. The food seemed better than QR (not as good as BA/CX), the cabin service behind QR. The 380 cabin though was very smart and I liked the layout.

[crewmeal]

Good old BA, imagine being seperated from loved ones on a flight to Oz, you'd forget what they'd look like!!!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6351113/British-Airways-long-haul-passengers-face-extra-fee-100-want-sit-together.html

[PAXboy]

Good Old DM, being outraged at a situation that has existed for some time on many airlines. I have a strong suspicion that the DM has supported the lowering of prices and the transparency of unit pricing. Thus (as I have said before):-

Public want more for less ££
Public want to choose what they pay for
Airlines (and many other companies) provide this
Public complains at having to pay more than they thought.
Read the rules and what other people have experienced and you won't be surprised.

[southside bobby]

First A321NEO delivered to LHR.

Same seat 235 density as EZY.

[The96er]

First A321NEO delivered to LHR.

Same seat 235 density as EZY.

No - BA's are 220

[southside bobby]

BA A321NEO equipped with 235 seat config higher than the CEO`s & same as EZY...3+3.

Middle seat not occupied in Club Europe onboard NEO.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The 757s were delivered with 180 seats, 195 on the Shuttle ones.
Blimey.

[The96er]

BA A321NEO equipped with 235 seat config higher than the CEO`s & same as EZY...3+3.

Middle seat not occupied in Club Europe onboard NEO.

Incorrect - BA A321NEO's have 37 rows (Row 26 being the emergency exit rows which has 4 abreast seating). Do the math (36x6)+4 =220.

[mariofly12]

Actually southside bobby is right..It's 235 as posted today on twitter and on Airways magazine online

[VickersVicount]

220
British Airways A321N G-NEOR Delivered. | The BA Source (http://thebasource.com/british-airways-a321n-g-neor-delivered/)

[rog747]

The new BA 321Neo's do not have the exits for 235/240 pax like EZY do with 240 pax.

EZY's have the 4 larger overwing exits - BA have 2 which means 220 max pax (but the other 2 exits maybe fitted but deactivated as can be offered by AB)

As you may know the new 321neo is offered with a number of exit configurations with varying doors and/or overwing exit windows

[DaveReidUK]

EZY's have the 4 larger overwing exits - BA have 2 which means 220 max pax

Similar to the difference between the overwing exits on EZY's A319s and BA's.

(but the other 2 exits maybe fitted but deactivated as can be offered by AB)

Unless it's my imagination, you can (just) discern the outline of the deactivated exit on the BA aircraft:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/413x220/ba_a321neo_acf_d130b568ac6d4c01f84aa78c554960efdb4eb274.jpg

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Airbus-A321-251NX/5208361

[rog747]

Yes Dave, thanks - The 2nd exit window does look like it there but deactivated, handy for resale or re-configuring seats - These new windows are larger than the 319/320 ones - and the main doors have double lane slides to enable the max of 240 seats if ALL exits ARE active.

Indeed,
EZY & some charter airlines chose to have 4 exit windows on their 319's to enable 156 seats (144 or 150 with only 2)

[wowzz]

Anyone know what is the fate of the last 767 flying today. Scrap, cargo work in Africa?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Both bound for St Athan tomorrow, to be scrapped.

[brian_dromey]

Anyone know what is the fate of the last 767 flying today. Scrap, cargo work in Africa?

Scrap, according to other sources online. BA were one of two airlines, the other being China Yunnan, to order 767s with RR engines. Qantas leased some RR powered 767s from BA, but have retired these too. Their odd-ball engines and "ACE" galleys make them fairly unattractive.

[cornishsimon]

They are all off to an raf base in wales to be scrapped. As far as I’m aware there are no plans for any of them to be stored or kept flying.


cs

[Diverskii]

BA tried to sell them to the RAF years ago but they went with new A330s instead. The engines will be ferried back down the M4 for use on the 747s.

[BCALBOY]

Any one , any idea why BA have cancelled both afternoon and evening departures from Belfast to Heathrow on Sunday 09th December?

means latest dep from Belfast that day is 0915am , making a weekend visit from LHR impossible.

Cheapest one way on Aer Lingus evening departure is £420.

[ericlday]

Other London Airports are available at a fraction of the cost.......oh, and a choice of departure times !!!

[rog747]

are they cancelled or just sold out and removed from the booking engine?

If EI is £420 then maybe that's why

[BCALBOY]

They are cancelled both directions..

Maybe is an attempt to prevent DUP gatecrashing the TV Brexit debate , LOL,

[EI-BUD]

Any one , any idea why BA have cancelled both afternoon and evening departures from Belfast to Heathrow on Sunday 09th December?

means latest dep from Belfast that day is 0915am , making a weekend visit from LHR impossible.

Try low bookings ...

[BCALBOY]

Well ,both flights are almost full in both directions tomorrow ,so dot understand why 02nd and 9th would be drastically different.Could maybe ubnderstand consolidating 2 into 1 ,but to cancel both seems overkill and is poor customer service .

[AirportPlanner1]

Try low bookings ...

I’m sure BA must have their reasons but if low bookings were the issue you’d expect it to be the morning flight gone and not both the later ones when people are looking to get home after the weekend.

[irishlad06]

I’m sure BA must have their reasons but if low bookings were the issue you’d expect it to be the morning flight gone and not both the later ones when people are looking to get home after the weekend.

people will just be put on EI flights

[CabinCrewe]

Islamabad relaunched S19 3/wk 788

[newscaster]

Islamabad relaunched S19 3/wk 788
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-airways-takes-off-to-islamabad-pakistan

Is this the smallest aircraft BA have used there post 707 and Vc10, did they ever fly 767s there?

[rog747]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-airways-takes-off-to-islamabad-pakistan

Is this the smallest aircraft BA have used there post 707 and Vc10, did they ever fly 767s there?

IIRC the Tristars went there - they were low config afaik

[CabinCrewe]

Think there were 767's to Karachi?

[Flightrider]

BA didn't ever fly to Karachi during the 767's near three decades in the fleet - that was a service that stopped in the early 1980s if my memory serves me right, and Karachi used to be a TriStar over Dubai.

Post the VC10 era into Rawalpindi, BA had the 747s on LGW-ISB and then LGW-MAN-ISB BA2119 routing for a few years. It then went to LHR on 747 and latterly 777 before being dropped ten years ago. Unless I'm much mistaken, there was a flight ops technical reason why BA 767-300s couldn't do Islamabad - something about the RR-powered aircraft dry operating weights being heavier and a consequent problem with drift-down altitudes for those specific aircraft being below the MSA over one of the mountain ranges sticks in my mind as the reason why. One of the BA folk did explain it to me once upon a time during a discussion about BA 767s based at Manchester and why they never went east. It was certainly a convoluted problem but one which didn't affect routings going further south for the likes of HYD and BLR which - although even further - did receive BA 767 service over the years.

Happy to stand corrected if anyone can be more definitive!

[CabinCrewe]

767s operated Karachi via DXB in 1990

[newscaster]

767s operated Karachi via DXB in 1990
Yes I remember that being announced on local TV, was more interested in knowing about ISB, according to one UK based av enthusiast BA used Tristar and DC10 as subs for the 747 at times.

[22/04]

767 must have succeeded L1011s in around 1990 then. Was a frequent visitor to Karachi 1989-1994 and can remember seeing a TriStar 500 there at least once.

[newscaster]

I confirmed from a post at another forum BA did operate all variants of the Tristar to ISB at some point or as subs as mentioned above.
767 must have succeeded L1011s in around 1990 then. Was a frequent visitor to Karachi 1989-1994 and can remember seeing a TriStar 500 there at least once.
You are right it was changed to 767, also BA quit KHI in April 1991.

[EI-BUD]

Islamabad relaunched S19 3/wk 788
I recall this route operating London Gatwick - Manchester - Islamabad twice weekly circa 1987-1989 ..

[newscaster]

I recall this route operating London Gatwick - Manchester - Islamabad twice weekly circa 1987-1989 ..
The routing you mentioned operated till 1999-2000, then it switched to LHR-ISB.

[Flightrider]

At the risk of making the most pedantic post of the year, I checked back in the BA timetables for 1989-1992 earlier today. Karachi was served by a TriStar routing over Kuwait (BA147/149) and stopped in Winter 1990/91 as evidently Kuwait services had stopped (not out of choice) at the same time. There was no mention of any BA 767 operation to Karachi anywhere.

[VickersVicount]

From a respected BA Crew member elsewhere. Remember paper timetables were printed often 6-12 months out of date...

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x792/d4cebe37_379d_4169_9e9c_c36fbb14954c_393b6e5f05d2c3004b61b26 330798877a316f911.jpeg

[A320ECAM]

Guys, I hope BA have added an extra hour onto the turnaround time for cleaning the cabin. The mess made by SLF going to/from Pakistan is shameful.

[Local Variation]

G-BYGC to be re-painted in BOAC livery in Feb.

[KelvinD]

G-BYGC to be re-painted in BOAC livery in Feb.
Looking forward to that! And, may I say, about bloody time!

[davidjohnson6]

I can understand why an airline might occasionally paint an aircraft in retro livery under the same name, but using the name of a predecessor company seems odd. The big corporate name and logo functions partly as an advertisement - and the old logo suggests how long established and mature a company is. Using the name of an old company loses that benefit and potentially causes confusion to people outside the airline industry

[crewmeal]

Agreed about time too. It will raise a few hairs on the back of the neck to those who remember the best airline to work for back in those days.

[tigertanaka]

I can understand why an airline might occasionally paint an aircraft in retro livery under the same name, but using the name of a predecessor company seems odd. The big corporate name and logo functions partly as an advertisement - and the old logo suggests how long established and mature a company is. Using the name of an old company loses that benefit and potentially causes confusion to people outside the airline industry

Even if they end up repainting a couple of aircraft in legacy brand names (BOAC and BEA) it will be two out of 280 odd planes. Sure there will be some confusion (although maybe no more confusing for some people who see BA planes with OneWorld plastered on the side) but BA presumably think this will be offset by the positive PR coverage.

Not sure they will even use BEA anyway but I guess we are odds on for the return of the 1980s Landor livery.

[DaveReidUK]

Not sure they will even use BEA anyway

BA's announcement made to its staff strongly implies that it will. Looking forward to an Airbus in the red square scheme. :O

[southside bobby]

US Airways adopted much later on "Heritage" liveries from airlines they had previously absorbed on examples of their A319`s...

The original America West livery...
The final America West livery...
The Piedmont livery...
& the Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA) livery...

[PAXboy]

Landor? Boring. I want to see the International Tails back, they were fantastic. (Yes, I've heard all the arguments)

[BAladdy]

Landor? Boring. I want to see the International Tails back, they were fantastic. (Yes, I've heard all the arguments)
There were about 30 different utopia tail fin designs. Which to choose... because you have no chance of BA paying out to paint 30 aircraft in different tails...The whole utopia livery is a part of BA’s history that BA and a lot of there passengers would rather forget.

TBH I think that there is more chance of seeing a A380 In GO livery than with one of those tails.

[KelvinD]

BA have given a date of 18th Feb for arrival at Heathrow from the paint shop in Dublin.

[PAXboy]

I am all too aware of the controversy over the international tails and the boss at the time. I know we shall not see their like again and I understand the reasons why. But, for me, they were joyous and highly innovative. That said, the classic BOAC scheme for the 744 is one I heartily approve of - mainly as my first flight ever (Dec 1965) was in a VC10 in this livery!

[vctenderness]

I think you will find that the current BA Chatham Dockyard tails were in fact part of the World tails.

[toledoashley]

It was indeed the dedicated Concorde theme.

[rog747]

The BOAC original 747 1970 livery was chosen I gather to coincide with the first 747's and almost 40 years of BOAC/BA 747 operations and 45 years of BEA/BA merger (1974)

An A321 NEO is also rumoured to be coming in BEA speed jack livery which will be rather nice if it emerges

[tigertanaka]

The BOAC original 747 1970 livery was chosen I gather to coincide with the first 747's and almost 40 years of BOAC/BA 747 operations and 45 years of BEA/BA merger (1974)

An A321 NEO is also rumoured to be coming in BEA speed jack livery which will be rather nice if it emerges

Doubt it. In the press release BA said "All new aircraft entering the fleet, including the A350, will continue to receive today’s popular Chatham Dockyard design."

If BA do a BEA livery (which I hope for) I suspect it will be an A319.

[bjones4]

A usually very reliable source on another forum suggests the aircraft to be treated will be 747s G-BYGC, G-BNLY, G-CIVB and A319 G-EUPJ.

[DaveReidUK]

The BOAC original 747 1970 livery was chosen I gather to coincide with the first 747's and almost 40 years of BOAC/BA 747 operations and 45 years of BEA/BA merger (1974)

Do you mean nearly 50 years of BOAC/BA 747 ops (1970-2019) ?

Though it was almost a year after the first aircraft was delivered before 747s started carrying fare-paying passengers.

[wiggy]

I think you will find that the current BA Chatham Dockyard tails were in fact part of the World tails.

Yep.....I vividly remember attending a “top secret/need to know/eyes only” presentation prior to the introduction of those tails..held in a top secret bunker disguised as a large windowless caravan parked outside Compass Centre (the former BA Crew report centre on the Bath Road) ....On the day I was there group of us (flight crew and cabin crew) sat down, listened to some advertising person, looked at some art work and mock ups and then told said luvvie we thought a lot of the art work was “meh” at best, but that the Chatham Dockyard Tails were quite nice actually and could that opinion get fed back to the Board...:ok: we were then somewhat taken a back when the artistic person told us, errr, no, we weren’t looking at a shortlist, that he wasn’t asking for opinions, that the decision had already been made and that the decision had been we were getting the lot...:eek:..but thanks for coming...

Anyhow Chatham looked good, right from day one, on everything from Concorde through the 744 and on to the shorthaul fleet. Of course eventually, and with no fanfare and on the quiet the whole fleet got that scheme...So popular opinion won in the end and it is about the only instance I can think of where Margaret Thatcher and I shared the same opinion.

[Skyflier]

I doubt they will do it but I'd love to see a BCal livery on something.

[Rutan16]

There are two PA28s flying round in British Caledonian livery at the moment.

That said I am not sure if BA retain copyright on the proud lion as it went off with BCAL Charter to form Calair and Novair eventually morphing into Thomas Cook UK today.

[Flightrider]

BCal had to have special permission from the Court of the Lord Lyon to use the Lion Rampant as part of its colour scheme. I suspect this one may go into the “all too difficult” box when you also consider whether the Dan-Air crowd would then demand a retro livery too! BOAC, BEA, Negus and Landor must surely be the four? (Cambrian and Northeast would be fun though...)

[toledoashley]

Caledonian was merged with Flying Colours to form JMCAir, which later become Thomas Cook Airlines.

[DaveReidUK]

There are two PA28s flying round in British Caledonian livery at the moment.

Normally to be found one each at Shoreham and Blackbushe.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

G-BYGE (not G-BYGC) has gone to Dublin for painting, left LHR on Sunday mornnig.

[DaveReidUK]

G-BYGE (not G-BYGC) has gone to Dublin for painting, left LHR on Sunday mornnig.

The retro 747 is due out of the paint shop on 18th February.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take 3 weeks to paint a 747, so this may well be a regular repaint of one that was due.

[BAladdy]

Aircraft for BOAC livery is G-BYGC. G-BYGE Is in DUB for paint strip and repaint from union flag to white union flag with crest livery.

G-BYGC is to fly to DUB once G-BYGE has been repainted around 8th feb

[DaveReidUK]

repaint from union flag to white union flag with crest livery

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference ?

[toledoashley]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference ?

The colour of the white! The newer variation is 'brighter' white.

[jensdad]

Northeast would be fun though...
That would be amazing and a welcome antidote to the proliferation of eurowhite schemes around these days. Thread drift, but I remember a few years ago the late evening A320 shuttle from LHR to NCL called up on Newcastle Radar as 'Northeast 12T'. Thought I was imagining things but it turned out it was an ex-Northeast pilot's last flight before retiring. Nice touch.

[southside bobby]

So the big BAW hinted announcement tomorrow is ?

"BAW 100 It`s coming departing 01.02.19"

[tigertanaka]

So the big BAW hinted announcement tomorrow is ?

"BAW 100 It`s coming departing 01.02.19"

The money is on a new TV advert.

[DaveReidUK]

Possibly resurrecting last week's "£100 flights" offer which failed spectacularly when the website couldn't cope ?

[Navpi]

Is the announcement not the cancellation of all flights from Manchester to HEATHROW prioritising European passengers needs over those from the North of England ?

Why not alternate the cancellations rather than this carte Blanche "scrub em all attitude".

Irony of irony, Heathrow appears to be operating normally
As at 7am.

[Asturias56]

Because UK regional passengers

a) can often use trains or surface transport whereas only Paris is easily accessible from the UK by train

b) you're a captive market and they prefer the longer distance cash flow

c) its easier to get everything back in place tomorrow in the UK

[fl dutchman]

Because UK regional passengers

a) can often use trains or surface transport whereas only Paris is easily accessible from the UK by train

b) you're a captive market and they prefer the longer distance cash flow

c) its easier to get everything back in place tomorrow in the UK

Try telling that to someone who has just arrived on the QF 9 from Perth at about 5am to find there 7.30am flight to NCL cancelled. Or indeed any other long haul arrival into LHR this morning with onward domestic connections to NCL or MAN.
Next flight to NCL about 3pm. Long wait!.

[willy wombat]

BA 100 appears to be a 90 second ad just sent out to Exec Club members (of which I am one which is how I know).

[jensdad]

Because UK regional passengers [are] a captive market

Not really mate... Outside London, if you're in any English or Welsh city other than Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds or Bradford, KLM are essentially your national airline. Don't know about Manchester or Leeds/Bradford, but from Newcastle, KLM tend to be cheaper to get to most places.

[Asturias56]

No need to remind me!

Just about any route to the UK is cheaper from Europe if you avoid LHR - and a LOT pleasanter!!!

[DND delivery]

Not really mate... Outside London, if you're in any English or Welsh city other than Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds or Bradford, KLM are essentially your national airline. Don't know about Manchester or Leeds/Bradford, but from Newcastle, KLM tend to be cheaper to get to most places.

And at least they actually ARE 100 years old this year... :E

[KelvinD]

And at least they actually ARE 100 years old this year..
So are BA. Because a firm takes over others, almalgmates some etc doesn't change a great deal, other than staff, logos etc. Ford have no doubt swallowed up all manner of smaller firms along the way, yet nobody would deny they are still Ford?
Isn't KLM Air France anyway? At least, that's what it says on their aircraft:
Ship Photos, Container ships, tankers, cruise ships, bulkers, tugs etc (http://www.kelvindavies.co.uk/kelvin///details.php?image_id=14545)

[MARKEYD]

Rog 747

Glad to see you have removed your rather controversial post about the BA advert

Much more suited to the Daily Mail I think !!

[rog747]

Rog 747

Glad to see you have removed your rather controversial post about the BA advert

Much more suited to the Daily Mail I think !!





Yes OK but I was touching a bit of stand up humour - Throw in W1A, 2012 Ab Fab outnumbered and a sprinkle of League of Gentlemen - get my drift>?
Obviously I was wrong and folk didn't get it - my mistake -

Exits stage left

[SWBKCB]

Obviously I was wrong and folk didn't get it - my mistake -

Yes - don't give up the day job... :ok:

[hampshireandy]

Don't apologize Rog747, you were not to know this thread was full of snowflake PC lefties

[WHBM]

I don't understand how BA through any predecessors can be 100 years old. Aircraft Transport & Travel Ltd started public services in 1919, but closed down and was liquidated at the end of 1920. Handley Page started similar services in 1919, they also closed the service down in 1920, the company carried on of course as an aircraft manufacturer but they never sold out the operation to anything that formed BA. How does this make BA 100 years old this year ?

[PAXboy]

Have you not heard of Public Relations? How else are they to help people forget the severe data breach of 2018 or the data centre 'melt-down' of 2017?

At a cinema last night, I saw their '100 Year Advert'. I'm guessing from previous comments that it's not for discussion? ;) But then, there is very little about it to discuss ... :rolleyes:

[DaveReidUK]

Founded in 1974, British Airways turns 100 next year – how exactly does that work? (https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/travel/article/2147388/founded-1974-british-airways-turns-100-year-how)

[ETOPS]

I started working for BA in the 1980s and met both Colin Marshall and John King at the various corporate days that were in vogue then. The focus was always on building a new brand "The Worlds Favourite" and effectively trying to get the two bits of BEA and BOAC to work together.

Only later did the idea of historical appropriation start to show - this was after the World Tails fiasco - and followed from the subtle rebranding thereafter.

You can see the first real mention in the F to S video "Aviators"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JdQi60an0

I describe the current marketing rubbish as the 45th year Centenary :rolleyes:

[rog747]

This was when the Worlds Favourite Airline in 1989 was still riding high and I think most of us Brits and Yanks were very proud of it.

Many of my pals at BMA LHR went over to be L/H Crew at BA in the mid 80's and are still there now clinging on to try and give a great service as they still like their jobs, but,,,,,

https://youtu.be/40690aXsc4c

[Porky Speedpig]

Must be a candidate for the best TV ad ever. Can you imagine having to pitch to the head of procurement for the budget for a similar one these days?!

[brian_dromey]

It's a fantastic ad. It's worth bearing in mind that it comes from a very different time. The worlds favourite airline then carried '24 million', in 2017 BA carried 45.2 million passengers. The industry is unrecognisable, volumes through airports have exponentially increased, greater direct routings have emerged, low-cost (and maybe low comfort) travel in both long and short-haul markets is a popular choice with many and a better way is unknown to the millennial generation and younger.

[BA318]

I always liked this one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5alwFrEBQW4

[Hartington]

I'm booked to go to Austin in September. I thought Austin was a 787 route but looking at seats the map is for a 747.

Which made me wonder.... with the 787 ETOPs/EROPs problems are BA extending the use of some 747s beyond the announced retirement plans to help overcome the 787 problems? Austin can be a direct substitue because Bergstrom has a nice long runway but in other cases I guess subbing a 787 with a 777 on Newark (for example) would need that 777 to be replaced by a 747 on whatever route it had been flying.

[MARKEYD]

The Austin route has been a real success for BA , it has been upgraded to a 777 300 last summer and this summer have put on a 747 which on some days is the larger club cabin of 86

[Hartington]

OK, I was reading too much into it!

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Video of British Airways flight #BA492 is emerging showing the Airbus A320 performing a go around due to supposed strong crosswind.

The Airbus A320 (reg. G-EUUY) looks to be uncontrollable, performing a go around at Gibraltar.

The Airbus A320 attempted to land at 10:58 UTC then performed a go around and diverted to Malaga at 11:40 UTC.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/TBkuHpaYY8g

Squeaky bum time for the pax on board... I can't say I've ever seen a GA quite like it. Is this purely weather or over compensation on the flight controls?

[rog747]

The winds from the Rock give off rotors - this was quite severe - today strong winds, clear skies warm temps
wind was gusting 30 even 40 from the East

If it was a technical issue affecting the control the crew would have likely declared that with a pan pan or even a may day

[BA318]

IAG has ordered 18 Boeing 777-9 for BA along with 24 options.

[ETOPS]

Here's the press release...

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=2389387)

BA profit £1.952 Billion.

Full results here..

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=2389386)

[Betablockeruk]

IAG has ordered 18 Boeing 777-9 for BA along with 24 options.

BOEING 777-9 ORDER FOR BRITISH AIRWAYS

International Airlines Group (IAG) is ordering 18 Boeing 777-9 aircraft, plus 24 options, for British Airways.

They will be used to replace 14 Boeing 747-400 and four Boeing 777-200 between 2022 and 2025. Each aircraft will be fitted with 325 seats in four cabins.

British Airways' 777-9 will be powered by General Electric GE9X engines. The engine order includes a comprehensive maintenance package with GE.

Willie Walsh, IAG chief executive, said: "The new B777-9 is the world's most fuel efficient longhaul aircraft and will bring many benefits to British Airways' fleet. It's the ideal replacement for the Boeing 747 and its size and range will be an excellent fit for the airline's existing network.

"This aircraft will provide further cost efficiencies and environmental benefits with fuel cost per seat improvements of 30 per cent compared to the Boeing 747. It also provides an enhanced passenger experience".

British Airways has 135 wide-bodied longhaul aircraft in its fleet (12 A380s, 30 B787s, 12 B777-300ERs, 46 B777-200s and 35 B747s) with 12 more B787s, four B777-300ERs and 18 A350s on order.

IAG Investor Relations
28 February 2018

Notes to editors:

· The Boeing 777-9 list price is approximately US$442.2 million.
· The list price is the sum of the airframe list price, engine option list price and the price of certain assumed specification change notices against which price concessions are made. IAG has negotiated a substantial discount from the list price.
· IAG has a range of financing options and will choose the most appropriate source closer to the delivery time.

[DaveReidUK]

British Airways' 777-9 will be powered by General Electric GE9X engines.

As will every airline's 777-9s.

[wowzz]

Which muppet in BA decided that the new breakfast service in WT+ would include a very hot breakfast wrap, too hot to hold, served on a paper napkin? I felt extremely sorry for the cc on my flight yesterday, who clearly were just as annoyed by the sheer lunacy of the idea as the passengers.

[Plane mad 134]

It seems BA will be introducing a new club world seat on their A350 aircraft to compete with the growing demand, you can see teasers on their Instagram and Twitter.

[VickersVicount]

It seems BA will be introducing a new club world seat on their A350 aircraft to compete with the growing demand, you can see teasers on their Instagram and Twitter.
No seeming about it, has been confirmed for the past 18 months with roll out first on A350 this year with some 777 retrofits to follow. All aisle access and suggestion of possible door.

[Plane mad 134]

No seeming about it, has been confirmed for the past 18 months with roll out first on A350 this year with some 777 retrofits to follow. All aisle access and suggestion of possible door.

It will be nice to see a 1-2-1 configuration, more privacy and space.

[rog747]

I don't quite follow BA's reasoning to have another WB Twin Jet entering in the fleet when they have the 787 (in 2 sizes) and the 777 in 3 sizes...

What does the A350 bring to BA's table?

[Dannyboy39]

747 replacement, but I agree I don’t see the logic (and BA are certainly not alone with this) by having multiple types that can serve the same markets / similar ranges.

[Cazza_fly]

I don't quite follow BA's reasoning to have another WB Twin Jet entering in the fleet when they have the 787 (in 2 sizes) and the 777 in 3 sizes...

What does the A350 bring to BA's table?

There will in fact be 3 variants of the 787 soon.

The long haul fleet will be;
A350-1000
A380-800
B747-400
B777-200ER
B777-300ER
B777-9
B787-8
B787-9
B787-10

The various different types allows BA to better send the correct size plane for it's mission. Taking in to account pax capacity / cargo capacity, range and airport capabilities. Whilst a uniform fleet may bring some savings with commonality in training and maintenence costs, BA are large enough and serve diverse enough route network to counteract that with what's mentioned above. Not only this but buying from the different suppliers also allows BA (IAG) to bid for the best deals with the likes of Airbus / Boeing and engine suppliers etc.

The A350-1000s were ultimately always for B747-400 replacements and offer both the range and capacity for their intended routes but more efficiently.

Eventually, i wouldn't be surprised to see further B787 series and A350 orders for B772ER replacements.

[wiggy]

Interesting analysis...of course ATM the 777-9 is being touted as the 744/early 772 successor, rather than the A350-1000.

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=2389387)

[Cazza_fly]

Interesting analysis...of course ATM the 777-9 is being touted as the 744/early 772 successor, rather than the A350-1000.

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=2389387)

It is indeed now, but previously it was the intention for that of the A350-1000 (along with the 789 and A380s). Realistically though, as much as these individual aircraft types are spoken as B747 replacements, they all play their part and not one single type is actually replacing it as such - more so giving BA a greater operational flexibility.

[VickersVicount]

19 hours to New Club World seat launch tomorrow...

[rog747]

Thanks - seems odd for BA to have such a varied mixed LH fleet now compared to 20 years ago (mainly RR747 and GE777, and Concorde and some RR767)

How many types can CC be checked out to operate is it 2 or 3?

5 lots of flight deck crew to be checked out, plus differences within sub-fleets
around 5 or 6 different RR engine types

A380 RR
747 RR
777 -200, -300 and the new 777XYZ-9 coming, 3 engine types, 2 x GE and RR
787 RR -8, -9 and does the -10 trade range for payload?
A350 RR

Strange, thought IAG and the Cruz show was all about costs costs costs

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

In 1999 it was equally eclectic in long haul.
B741
B742
B744
B757 (no, really, GLA/BHX-JFK)
B763
B77A
B77E GE & RR
DC10

[Cazza_fly]

How many types can CC be checked out to operate is it 2 or 3?



3 Types - plus their varients. E.g A320 includes 319 and 321. Plus the 787's are classed as a varient of a 777 for cabin crew.

Most long-haul crews checked-out aircraft looks something like one of the mixes below;

747/777/787/380
A320/777/787/380
A320/777/787/747

The main difference being the A380 vs B747. I presume over time this will become A380 vs A350.

There were plans to have a common type rating for flight crew on the 777 and 787 fleets too. However, i don't believe this has ever come to fruition other than for training captains. Not sure of the reasons why this never went ahead though.