British Airways

[pabely]

On the positive side, the is surely a very good opportunity for BA to fit their now Club World seat on all their long haul aircraft, 747’s excepted. In normal circumstances I believe this was going to take them about 3 years to do.
But that will burn cash, I'm sure all projects like that will be on hold!

[VentureGo]

British Airways 747s heading now to TEV (Teruel, Spain) G-CIVA /G-CIVR / G-CIVS / G-CIVT as BA9154-7

Is this for storage? or more / other ....

[RealFish]

British Airways 747s heading now to TEV (Teruel, Spain) G-CIVA /G-CIVR / G-CIVS / G-CIVT as BA9154-7

Is this for storage? or more / other ....

G-CIVX is also en route as BA9158.

[Diverskii]

Believe 11 A380s heading for parking this weekend. I think to France.

[VentureGo]

G-EUUR A320 has just departed Madrid for a short circa.100 mile hop as BA9276, also for TEV - Maybe the first of other a/c types being stored there?

[wub]

Zoom in on Teruel on FR24 and there are dozens of aircraft in storage including Etihad, Virgin and KLM, as well as some partially dismantled KLM 747s.

[The Nutts Mutts]

G-EUUR A320 has just departed Madrid for a short circa.100 mile hop as BA9276, also for TEV - Maybe the first of other a/c types being stored there?

Could it maybe be popping in to collect the 747 crews and bring them home?

[VentureGo]

Could it maybe be popping in to collect the 747 crews and bring them home?

Good Shout - Yes, very possibly. (Didn't think of that...!)

[Curious Pax]

Good Shout - Yes, very possibly. (Didn't think of that...!)

And indeed seems now to be heading north to the UK having departed Teruel

[wiggy]

Could it maybe be popping in to collect the 747 crews and bring them home?

That was the last plan I heard...

[VentureGo]

The article appears in "Simple Flying" here: https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-747-aircraft-graveyard/

[flyerguy]

The article appears in "Simple Flying" here: https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-747-aircraft-graveyard/

I don’t trust Simple Flying. A lot of the time they just make it up as they see it.

[DaveReidUK]

I don’t trust Simple Flying. A lot of the time they just make it up as they see it.

The article certainly has a high waffle-to-information ratio. A single paragraph could have covered what they had to say.

[flyerguy]

The article certainly has a high waffle-to-information ratio. A single paragraph could have covered what they had to say.

”waffle to information ratio” that’s exactly how I’d describe it!

[VentureGo]

BA 747s G-CIVB and G-CIVJ currently on route to Miami as BA9153 and BA9150 - I'm guessing they are repatriation flights.

[ara01jbb]

A friend in Sweden has been notified by the British Embassy in Stockholm that BA ARN-LHR will he suspended from 9 April. There will be no more direct flights between the UK and Sweden for the foreseeable future. Is this part of a wider draw down of BA European routes?

[Flightrider]

I don't know anything for sure, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised. The loads on the little flying they are doing are truly awful, with passenger numbers barely into double figures on many short-haul Airbus services. Although far less than a full schedule, they must still be losing a fortune doing it.

[AirportPlanner1]

I get that some flights are carrying freight and some are repatriation but it is noticeable BA are still running a number of short haul routes which don’t obviously seem to tick either of those boxes. It seems odd they’re carrying on when most others (certainly in U.K.) have stopped days/weeks back

[davidjohnson6]

A friend in Sweden has been notified by the British Embassy in Stockholm that BA ARN-LHR will he suspended from 9 April. There will be no more direct flights between the UK and Sweden for the foreseeable future. Is this part of a wider draw down of BA European routes?

Looks as if BA are pulling out of LHR-ARN after 9 April but SAS are to begin flying it instead. I imagine that given demand right now, there is no need for more than 1 airline on this route

[VentureGo]

A380s heading for CHR (Chateauroux) Airport for storage - G-XLEA arrived as BA9150; G-XLEC and G-XLEF are on route as BA 9151 and 9152

G-XLEI also heading to CHR as BA9153

[Seat4A]

A380s heading for CHR (Chateauroux) Airport for storage - G-XLEA arrived as BA9150; G-XLEC and G-XLEF are on route as BA 9151 and 9152

G-XLEI also heading to CHR as BA9153



12:16 PM · Apr 6, 2020



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/595x134/1v_53929ec5591a9b9c65986f23e7be407ca130802c.png

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1168x870/1v1_9e59c0591b02035ba7cbdaedd0dc7f2ca3975ab8.png


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x765/1v2_84463f7fcd94603a35a3b48d2cf3852319669156.png


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1354x658/1v3_911e8ff1a5b7802c1a13deb4700059fa23be6653.png




https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/746x452/1c5_be2458f503e97a80aaa340f56f22185588a8c4ff.png


Full article

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/chateauroux-airbus-a380-arrives-a-l-aeroport-marcel-dassault-1586176669

[DaveReidUK]

The Phantom Hyphenator strikes again ...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/331x100/marcel_dassault_c78c693ea46bfb83db3a9178a09e430079af5926.jpg

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Blimey that's a big engine cover.

[Seat4A]

Apologies if already posted.



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/602x550/1ba_0a63af8e10c3a30054690a452768a535794cd8a6.png


Link to video in tweet below:

https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/status/1248929452920393728

[VickersVicount]

I will put a little wager that unlike LH / AF all these A380s will see BA service again. The 747s I would doubt it esp as 5 or 6 were due to go in next 6 months anyway. Hopefully BA will get rid of T3 ops permanently!

[ExpectmorePayless]

I will put a little wager that unlike LH / AF all these A380s will see BA service again. The 747s I would doubt it esp as 5 or 6 were due to go in next 6 months anyway. Hopefully BA will get rid of T3 ops permanently!
It will be interesting to see whether BA would in the coming years consider taking some of the LH aircraft to expand their A380 fleet for key trunk routes and thereby hasten the retirement of the 744. I suspect it depends which routes warrant additional passenger capacity above that offered by the A350 and B777. And where there is only limited demand for cargo carrying capacity.

[Chidken Sangwich]

It will be interesting to see whether BA would in the coming years consider taking some of the LH aircraft to expand their A380 fleet for key trunk routes and thereby hasten the retirement of the 744. I suspect it depends which routes warrant additional passenger capacity above that offered by the A350 and B777. And where there is only limited demand for cargo carrying capacity.

BA have already been offered AF A380’s which were reviewed and decided against as the Cabin refit costs are astronomical.

Forget 4 engines going forward, the capacity simply won’t be needed.

[VentureGo]

BA 747 reg.G-CIVL just leaving LHR for short hop to GBA (Kemble)

[055166k]

BA 747 G-CIVJ into Kemble roughly 1145 local time.

[kcockayne]

And, G-XLEB into Chateauroux.

[22/04]

BA 747 G-CIVJ into Kemble roughly 1145 local time.

Flew on this aircraft to Harare in the late 90s. Is this for scrapping or sotrage

[stewyb]

Flew on this aircraft to Harare in the late 90s. Is this for scrapping or sotrage

5 in to Kemble this week for retirement, presumably to be scrapped!

[Gurnard]

G-CIVJ
Initially for STORAGE but will only be re-instated if traffic levels recover. As others will be restored before VJ it is most likely to face the axe.

[TURIN]

BA have already been offered AF A380’s which were reviewed and decided against as the Cabin refit costs are astronomical.

Forget 4 engines going forward, the capacity simply won’t be needed.

Alternatively, due to overcapacity, BA will need a USP to get passengers to stay with them..
The A380 is a delight from a pax point of view, Given the choice I would select it everytime. Even for a premium.

[PAXboy]

Agreed about the 380. We went to South Africa in February and I specifically chose the 380 outbound. We were in WT+ on the upper deck and one of the best trips on this route that I've had. We came back from CPT and the 744 was a come down. Not to mention that the poor old lady had a fatal sensor fault at start up and we were delayed for 25 hours - which will have cost them a bomb. Currently, I understand, the 350 is due to replace the 744 on that route as CPT cannot take the 380 at the moment. Next trip, I'll take the return via JNB and the 380.

By contrast, the LH 748 that I was on last year was a treat.

[JSCL]

Agreed about the 380. We went to South Africa in February and I specifically chose the 380 outbound. We were in WT+ on the upper deck and one of the best trips on this route that I've had. We came back from CPT and the 744 was a come down. Not to mention that the poor old lady had a fatal sensor fault at start up and we were delayed for 25 hours - which will have cost them a bomb. Currently, I understand, the 350 is due to replace the 744 on that route as CPT cannot take the 380 at the moment. Next trip, I'll take the return via JNB and the 380.

By contrast, the LH 748 that I was on last year was a treat.

I assure you, the BA 350 trumps both of them. :)

[kcockayne]

G-XLEK is about to land in Chateauroux - does that leave any A380s still at Heathrow ?

[DaveReidUK]

G-XLEK is about to land in Chateauroux - does that leave any A380s still at Heathrow ?

Yes - one (G-XLEH). Hasn't flown since the end of March.

[Gurnard]

Yes - one (G-XLEH). Hasn't flown since the end of March.
One other not at Chateauroux is G-XLEG which positioned to Manila for maintenance on the 7th March.

[cjhants]

Got to say well done to BA today. Email arrived lunchtime saying flight in 3 weeks time was cancelled, no surprise there. Seats booked with Expedia, but baggage direct with BA. Phoned BA straight away, got through to a human in less than 10 minutes. Refund processed immediately and without any fuss.

[bcn_boy]

You are a lucky one, my flight to Beirut was cancelled over three weeks ago and I am still waiting for my refund.

[Packer27L]

You are a lucky one, my flight to Beirut was cancelled over three weeks ago and I am still waiting for my refund.
Likewise, I’m due to fly in less than a week (return flight cancelled by BA but outbound is still running), when I call there is “nobody free” and I get automatically disconnected, and my plans are such that I cannot accept a voucher. Appreciate it’s difficult times but it is very frustrating.

[cjhants]

Maybe I just got lucky with the phones today. Perhaps I should do the lottery this week!
But just wanted to post to show there is some hope of getting some money back.
Not having so much luck with wizzair and love holidays, but feel BA deserves some credit.

[yeo valley]

I see the first of 5 747 for storage in Gloucester airport arrived to day 16-4-2020.I don't know how much storage they have there.

[DaveReidUK]

I see the first of 5 747 for storage in Gloucester airport arrived to day 16-4-2020.I don't know how much storage they have there.

Today's was the third BA 747 to go to Kemble this week.

[davidjohnson6]

yeo - do you mean Kemble, or do you mean Gloucestershire ?

[DaveReidUK]

yeo - do you mean Kemble, or do you mean Gloucestershire ?

Kemble, aka Cotswold Airport.

Even if a 747 could stop before the end of Staverton's 4800' runway, it wouldn't be able to taxy anywhere. :O

[SWBKCB]

Kemble, aka Cotswold Airport.

Even if a 747 could stop before the end of Staverton's 4800' runway, it wouldn't be able to taxy anywhere. :O

Might be a way of BA making some money - I'd pay to see it. Oh, wait...:O

[crewmeal]

BA are flying a lot of repatriation flights lately from India, Bangladesh, West Africa and other destinations. Are all these passengers tested for the virus at the first point of entry into the UK (presumably LHR) or are they allowed straight through after immigration and customs?

[Atlantic Explorer]

BA are flying a lot of repatriation flights lately from India, Bangladesh, West Africa and other destinations. Are all these passengers tested for the virus at the first point of entry into the UK (presumably LHR) or are they allowed straight through after immigration and customs?

Assuming this isn’t a rhetorical question then no. NHS staff are struggling to get tested let alone the general public coming off a flight. They will probably be told to self isolate for 14 days, but will probably be infecting things and people on the way home if they have the virus. It’s all a bit of a farce really.

[Rutan16]

Crew meal what purpose would a test actually achieve and especially the UK governments preferred test for antibodies - Positive result just means you have been in contact with the reagent !

Does not tell you definitively whether thats benign and you are immune, a carrier or infected at the time. A high temperature on its own doesn’t either,

Aside from the FACT that one of the disease centres on the planet is the UK itself.

OH and don’t get me on that half assed NHS testing programme - Who ever thought it was a good idea to stick these at out of town car parks miles from the NHS hospitals , force NHS staff from differing districts together and somehow believe all even have access to their own transport or are able to waste their own time travelling - Cummings the lunatic !

All arrivals should certainly stay home however thats for their own benefit and as we have crashed the economy they probably have no work to go to anyway !

[Asturias56]

"Aside from the FACT that one of the disease centres on the planet is the UK itself."

Forget about testing people coming in - given the UK;s position right now they should be testing people LEAVING to save infections in other countries

[Rutan16]

"Aside from the FACT that one of the disease centres on the planet is the UK itself."

Forget about testing people coming in - given the UK;s position right now they should be testing people LEAVING to save infections in other countries

Quite so and Agreed !

Think the New Zealand Pm said something similar didn’t she

[Tagron]

This what the New Zealand government has to say about travel to NZ: -

People will no longer be able to complete their 14-day isolation period at home. Arrivals assessed as high-risk of COVID-19 will be placed in quarantine facilities, while all other arrivals will be placed in managed isolation facilities.

So on arrival at AKL you will be sent to a designated hotel and required to spend your quarantine or isolation time there.

[HZ123]

A shopping trip this morning in West London and a visit to my local high street last night clearly displayed numerous people out and about. The latter looked at the the pre - virus level of people and the former after a 40 minute queue found the store inhabitants observing little or no distancing and many family groups.

My point is that tests or not people are coming out anyway as they have had enough! I do not condone this but the attitude i,s if has not effected me then I will carry on as normal. Irrespective of death totals and daily infections the populous need to return to work without delay, that is those that have a job, career to go back to. If not we can look forward to riots in the inner cities in the near future.

[WHBM]

BA are flying a lot of repatriation flights lately from India, Bangladesh, West Africa and other destinations.
I think many of us are a bit mystified by these Repatriation Flights at this stage. Business and holiday travellers have been unable to go outward for over a month now, and the few of these that may have been on longer arrangements returned early on flights anyway, often sparsely filled. Those who have been there semi-permanently would be likely to be in housing accommodation, and are as well there as elsewhere.

So where does this need for repatriation after all this time come from ?

[22/04]

Quite a lot backpackers and gap year folk I should think.

In India for example lockdown meant lockdown initially imposed within 4 hours and those there had to make special arrangements to leave.

[Espada III]

I have been stuck in Israel for a few weeks caring for a family member and now need to return to the UK. I am aware of others who have been here for sound reasons but now need to return as well. There were no obvious options to do that until there was news that BA were starting daily flights to TLV from 1 May. In truth they have been flying daily anyway but presumably without passengers as the flights appear on FR24 but not on any website offering tickets.

But rumours abound that these flights will not happen and we will remain stuck here for some time. Does anyone have any information about these flights and if they will actually take off?

[WHBM]

I have been stuck in Israel for a few weeks caring for a family member and now need to return to the UK.
I believe this is not a BA issue but the Israel government closing the borders except to returning residents.
Quite a lot backpackers and gap year folk I should think.
I doubt there are many backpackers in West Africa, unless I have completely misunderstood the market.

[davidjohnson6]

Unlikely to come as a great surprise, but still not fun... 12,000 staff at risk
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52462660

[JSCL]

Cruz: "We must overcome this crisis ourselves, too. There is no government bailout standing by for BA and we cannot expect the taxpayer to offset salaries indefinitely... We will see some airlines go out of business."

Stab at the competition there. But I can't help but think that the Gov might prefer to give them cash to keep these people employed.

[pabely]

I have been stuck in Israel for a few weeks caring for a family member and now need to return to the UK. I am aware of others who have been here for sound reasons but now need to return as well. There were no obvious options to do that until there was news that BA were starting daily flights to TLV from 1 May. In truth they have been flying daily anyway but presumably without passengers as the flights appear on FR24 but not on any website offering tickets.

But rumours abound that these flights will not happen and we will remain stuck here for some time. Does anyone have any information about these flights and if they will actually take off?
Wizzair to Luton is to restart this weekend, is it not?

[Espada III]

No idea, but I managed to fly to Stansted yesterday on an Israir flight which was collecting Israelis to repatriate them. All cabin crew wearing full hazmat suits and masks. No more than 80 passengers with the first five rows and last four blocked off. I had a row to myself. No health checks carried out but we were required to wear masks the whole flight.

I have never seen airports so quiet. Tel Aviv was eerily empty, with two out of 80+ check in desks open. Four flights out yesterday. Arrival at Stansted was similar. Apparently only three flights yesterday. From walking into the terminal from the plane to walking out, including passport and collecting luggage was well under five minutes.

[116d]

Thoughts are with all the staff here.

Cruz: "We must overcome this crisis ourselves, too. There is no government bailout standing by for BA and we cannot expect the taxpayer to offset salaries indefinitely... We will see some airlines go out of business."

Stab at the competition there. But I can't help but think that the Gov might prefer to give them cash to keep these people employed.

I still think if this crisis carries on for many more months, BA will have no choice but to approach the government for support. Their earlier statement about not needing help could end up being a rod made for their backs.

[ATNotts]

With most airlines requiring government assistance by the end of this crisis, perhaps nationalising the lot and having one large state airline might be the cheapest way out of the crisis for the industry, with the least pain for employees.

Many European countries already have one airline that is overarching dominant in their market place (Germany and France to name two). The UK is somewhat different, with the London market being quite different to that in the rest of the nation at present. To do as I have proposed would essentially take the industry back to the 1960s, but may not be too far fetched a solution if things get really bad.

[JonnyH]

I cannot say I am surprised with Cruz’ comments. He has had a cut throat attitude throughout his time at IAG and is part of the reason they brought him in from Vueling.

i don’t think you can blame him for this one though, taking everything at face value with the current situation, as it does seem quite a logical decision (as terrible as the loss of circa 12,000 jobs are) with BA the majority loss maker within the group and a reduce in air travel. However, I cannot say I am surprised at this. BA continue to constantly get negative press and they have had numerous issues, especially with crew strikes, and another one of their major issues is the product itself. When AC came and decided to have a major overhaul of the product this hasn’t succeeded IMO. It did bring the prices down versus what they were but a lot of the general public still see and hope that they’re purchasing a premium product when buying a ticket with BA and this isn’t the case IMO. Travelling domestic or SH is no different to EZY and their CW product still isn’t as good as some of their competitors for LH.

This post isn’t a one intended to agree that BA’s actions are justified because I do wholeheartedly believe, despite the current awful pandemic we’re going through, that the majority of these job losses could and would be avoided if AC had not ruined a very good airline.

i also think his statement is terribly worded - having a dig at the competition whilst also saying that they cannot rely on furlough forever. The latter to me, having being employed by BA for a number of years in the past, screams and insinuates to me that the majority of these job losses were already on the radar pre-pandemic and I’d be very surprised if there are current BA employees on this board that do not agree with this.

[LGS6753]

With most airlines requiring government assistance by the end of this crisis, perhaps nationalising the lot and having one large state airline might be the cheapest way out of the crisis for the industry, with the least pain for employees.

Many European countries already have one airline that is overarching dominant in their market place (Germany and France to name two). The UK is somewhat different, with the London market being quite different to that in the rest of the nation at present. To do as I have proposed would essentially take the industry back to the 1960s, but may not be too far fetched a solution if things get really bad.
Surely you don't want to go back to a situation where politicians run airlines, bad decisions proliferate, innovation stops, fares rise and inefficiencies abound. Because that's what nationalisation means in practice.

[kcockayne]

Surely you don't want to go back to a situation where politicians run airlines, bad decisions proliferate, innovation stops, fares rise and inefficiencies abound. Because that's what nationalisation means in practice.
Maybe so, but who knows how this will play out ? A protracted emergency (such as is now happening) will most likely result in Governments being the only ones able to generate the necessary funds to keep airlines functioning. There again, how long can these governments keep throwing money in all these different directions ? Where are they going to get money from in order to pay it out? Simply printing it, in the end ! Where will that lead - massive inflation as in pre war Germany ? These are extremely worrying times & I am hugely worried about the whole structure of society. The danger of this virus lies not in the medical side but, through its effects on the economy, on the basic infrastructure of our lives. Just pray(& I am not religious) for some respite - & pretty soon !

[ATNotts]

Surely you don't want to go back to a situation where politicians run airlines, bad decisions proliferate, innovation stops, fares rise and inefficiencies abound. Because that's what nationalisation means in practice.

Going back to the days of government meddling in decisions as to what aircraft are purchased, and restrictive route licencing? Certainly not. I don't really want the government to go down the road I described. However, give the likelihood that air transport won't get back on it's feet for the rest of this year, very possibly well into next year, there are likely to be large sums required to tie over not just BA, but all the other UK carriers, that is virtually unavoidable. The thought process goes that rather than chuck £200m here, £500m there and perhaps £1bn somewhere else it might be smarter from a financial perspective to bring the whole lot together, creating economies of scale, whilst ensuring that professional management, and definitely not politicians in charge of running the business. This could be as a short / medium term solution; in the interim period new carriers would spring up, unfettered by route licencing restraints, and the government supported carrier flogged off, preferably to UK interests as and when feasible.

I very much doubt the industry would go this way, for political and ideological reasons, but from an economic point of view it may be the best course of action, depending upon just how bad things get, and they have already got bad, for the employees of not just BA but many others, including SAS and Lufthansa.

[USERNAME_]

So it looks like the plan is to merge all 3 fleets to create a single fleet at LHR.
Not too sure this will go down well with Euro/Worldwide fleet and their notorious union. Mixed fleet I’m sure are happy to just go along with it, like they’ve got a choice in the matter anyway. I wouldn’t expect this to work very well onboard, each fleet having its own kind of service.

[nguba]

A merger of the fleets was always going to happen at some point. Though, many who have done long-haul in the past and transferred to Eurofleet for a better work/life balance will not relish doing long-haul again.

One really big sticking point is the number of SCCMs on board and what happens to the Purser/CSD roles.

[Alteagod]

Or hand BA T5 over to a 3rd party GHA

[Nostoodian]

What's going to happen to London City?

[USERNAME_]

What's going to happen to London City?

Nothing planned, yet.

[Asturias56]

"Not too sure this will go down well with Euro/Worldwide fleet and their notorious union"

What they going to do? threaten to go on strike???

[RJ100]

Or hand BA T5 over to a 3rd party GHA

That is what BA are planning for the ground staff at LGW, but not LHR

[The96er]

That is what BA are planning for the ground staff at LGW, but not LHR

Haven't they tried that before, at least with the Ramp. That failed with 2 handlers forcing BA to take it back in-house. I know they've been in talks with Menzies in the past with regards LHR Ramp, but was deemed too risky and too big a task to undertake from Menzies part.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Gatwick ramp came by via forming GGS as a standalone subsidiary, but the cost savings had been made in the initial outsourcing.

[GLCYZ]

What's going to happen to London City?

As USERNAME_ says, nothing planned yet. The Alex Cruz email was headed as being for Mainline colleagues on UK contracts only. There's been no communication from BA CityFlyer leadership either way.

CityFlyer is already a lean operation and was arguably under crewed for the pre-COVID19 timetable so it will be interesting to see how things adapt.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52489013

[Cloud1]

My thoughts on having one type of crew is that this is what has been needed for a long time to bring better efficiencies and flexibility to the operation. Having one crew type won’t tick everyone’s boxes but it will align the business with other airlines across different markets.

Regarding the possible closure of LGW this could also be a wise move, leaving LGW to the LCCs and charter operators. As and when demand returns that necessitates more services from LGW and more competition, BA could always do w pattern operations from selective destinations around Europe.

[AirportPlanner1]

It might be the end of BA at LGW but maybe not IAG, in a scenario where Covid damage and the economy isn’t too bad this could be a good excuse to reduce costs substantially by just transferring the slots across to Vueling/Level on lower costs. The overwhelming bulk of routes are good fits for those two anyway. Remember it’s probably more likely than not Norwegian will be gone (from the UK anyway), TCX have already gone and Virgin are shaky. There is already a gap in leisure-oriented long haul and soon this could be significant.

If Covid is truly devastating it’ll be irrelevant what happens at LGW because it’ll be all about last-gasp survival mode and utilising unwanted LHR slots and capacity for anything worthwhile currently at LGW.

[nowhereasfiled]

It looks like LCY fleet and CF are going to hopefully remain untouched. I hope for the staff LGW is okay, but in the case of it going, perhaps we might see CF Embraers shuttling in and out of Gatwick on W patterns for the more profitable routes?

[scr1]

Have people seen this

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/303081?fbclid=IwAR1aKgaDUEVf9C40VDCeS73NHmSHtsufDGO8wHQ6Cgh9 gJNFG8lAroPI0Kc

Might not do much good but we can only try

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

It looks like LCY fleet and CF are going to hopefully remain untouched. I hope for the staff LGW is okay, but in the case of it going, perhaps we might see CF Embraers shuttling in and out of Gatwick on W patterns for the more profitable routes?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52489013?SThisFB

Gatwick is not “ok” BBC suggest it’s not coming back.
Look with the market collapsed, if BA want to fly LON-xyz, they’ll serve it from LHR only, not LGW, not LCY.
None of these 2nd hand Embraers are even likely to enter service. Any LCY routes that overlap with LHR ought to close as IAG need to make their money and protect their position at LHR. Barclays today is thinking about giving up their Canary Wharf offices, the world is changing very fast here.

[LGS6753]

OTOH if BA abandon LCY, who will take up the slack - maybe less demand, but demand from money-rich time-poor passengers usually on expenses. Will BA gift that to the likes of KLM, DLH, Air France. Luxair? I don't think so.

[USERNAME_]

Staff recently received an email from Tom Stoddart (CF MD) stating that Cityflyer are not part of BA’s announced cuts.

[TOM100]

Am sure BA/IAG would want to keep a defensive foothold at LGW as an even more highly frequent easyJet would definitely potentially impact the commercial performance of LHR with a highly overlapping P2P catchment. I understood LGW to be overall profitable and if it wasn’t strategically of importance why buy ZB/MT slots ? Could be some negotiation positioning going on here ? I believe LGW is important to protect LHR for BA. But then maybe the world has changed. Then again in time LHR will be full again, poss very delayed R3 if they give up LGW en masses they may never get back in. Then where (with lack of R3) do you expand ? Unless of course they are precipitating no VS, open up London and consolidate and grow LHR - bit of crystal ball gazing LGW flleet takes up VS

[kcockayne]

Am sure BA/IAG would want to keep a defensive foothold at LGW as an even more highly frequent easyJet would definitely potentially impact the commercial performance of LHR with a highly overlapping P2P catchment. I understood LGW to be overall profitable and if it wasn’t strategically of importance why buy ZB/MT slots ? Could be some negotiation positioning going on here ? I believe LGW is important to protect LHR for BA. But then maybe the world has changed. Then again in time LHR will be full again, poss very delayed R3 if they give up LGW en masses they may never get back in. Then where (with lack of R3) do you expand ? Unless of course they are precipitating no VS, open up London and consolidate and grow LHR - bit of crystal ball gazing LGW flleet takes up VS
If this Covid problem is not solved PDQ, there will not be a full Heathrow again in the next ten years +. There will also be absolutely no necessity to expand at Gatwick, either. The world is staring into the abyss here. The virus will not, of itself, wipe out humanity; but its effect on the economy (through lockdowns etc.) will cause a depression the likes of which will seriously threaten social breakdown. All airlines are threatened with devastation - even if they get Government bail outs. How long will they be able to keep on bailing out the airlines if the virus is not beaten very quickly ? Not very long. I have great sympathy with BA (& all the rest); they have to try & survive - if they can; & they are all playing politics to help them achieve it. Also, there is NO question that BA are using this situation to try & shaft the staff (way over & above what they need to do to shore up their finances). On the other hand, the staff need to be as flexible as they can be & to realise that normal service - or anything remotely resembling normality - is not going to be resumed ; ever ! I wish you all the very best & the greatest luck in the world - & pray that BA & BALPA will achieve the fairest way to proceed.

[EMB-145LR]

In their letter to BALPA British Airways have said they are looking to amend the scope agreements. My immediate thought is that they are looking to replace mainline at Gatwick with Cityflyer and retreat all mainline flying to Heathrow.

[The96er]

In their letter to BALPA British Airways have said they are looking to amend the scope agreements. My immediate thought is that they are looking to replace mainline at Gatwick with Cityflyer and retreat all mainline flying to Heathrow.

Or allow Cityflyer from LHR.

[davidjohnson6]

The 1918 flu pandemic was rather more severe than Covid, yet the world carried on. Over 100 years later, medicine has advanced hugely. Ebola is a disease which mainly affects people living in the very poorest of countries - i.e. not places where the stockmarket worries about particularly - yet a vaccine was found. Big pharma and medical researchers at universities all over the world are throwing everything they've got a Covid; vaccines from reputable institutions are already being trialled. While I cannot predict what will or won't happen and the comments from BA about Gatwick are deeply concerning, please take a deep breath and try to get a sense of perspective of the likely long term effect of Covid on BA and LHR/LGW. Once a vaccine is found, we are likely to see a recovery in demand for flying

[Curious Pax]

Maybe some kite flying of a few nuclear options going on, so when BA “cave in” and everyone breathes a sigh of relief they will be trying not to look too smug as they will actually have got what they’ve wanted for a long time.

[anothertyke]

The 1918 flu pandemic was rather more severe than Covid, yet the world carried on. Over 100 years later, medicine has advanced hugely. Ebola is a disease which mainly affects people living in the very poorest of countries - i.e. not places where the stockmarket worries about particularly - yet a vaccine was found. Big pharma and medical researchers at universities all over the world are throwing everything they've got a Covid; vaccines from reputable institutions are already being trialled. While I cannot predict what will or won't happen and the comments from BA about Gatwick are deeply concerning, please take a deep breath and try to get a sense of perspective of the likely long term effect of Covid on BA and LHR/LGW. Once a vaccine is found, we are likely to see a recovery in demand for flying

But my take is that BA are in the gradual recovery camp ; it is only partly about the virus, the rest is about the economic consequences of the virus. If you have 62% of the slots in one of the most premium airports in the world, everything else is secondary to maintaining as much of that position as possible.

[kcockayne]

The 1918 flu pandemic was rather more severe than Covid, yet the world carried on. Over 100 years later, medicine has advanced hugely. Ebola is a disease which mainly affects people living in the very poorest of countries - i.e. not places where the stockmarket worries about particularly - yet a vaccine was found. Big pharma and medical researchers at universities all over the world are throwing everything they've got a Covid; vaccines from reputable institutions are already being trialled. While I cannot predict what will or won't happen and the comments from BA about Gatwick are deeply concerning, please take a deep breath and try to get a sense of perspective of the likely long term effect of Covid on BA and LHR/LGW. Once a vaccine is found, we are likely to see a recovery in demand for flying
Yes, David, what you say is true - no argument. But, Covid isn't finished yet; & it is not the medical effect that is most worrying, it is the economic; & Governments' reactions to that. Also, a vaccine will be a while coming. My point is that we probably don't have the time to wait before everything goes to rag****. I could be wrong, but I don't think that the basic premise of my comment is too far off the mark. We do not have too much time going on like this !

[HZ123]

I note that to often the reference is to BA! The reality is IAG are calling the shots and what counts are their plans. LGW can be operated by Vueling, Level and Iberia Express, particularly as IAG will in the future have a large fleet of surplus aircrafts. Indeed BA CityFlyer may also have a role to play at LHR and LGW, though immediate future of social distancing on an EMB will be a challenge. With the sad likelihood of at least 1 in 5 job losses it will be years before people have the finances to fly as frequently as they used to.

[SWBKCB]

though immediate future of social distancing on an EMB

Not just on an EMB! The issue is the same for every other airliner.

[TartinTon]

Quite honestly, if airlines are relying on social distancing as a way to restart then the whole lot are screwed as there will be no money to be made. The ONLY way out of this for the airlines is an effective vaccine. Until that happens everything is on hold.

[inOban]

Quite honestly, if airlines are relying on social distancing as a way to restart then the whole lot are screwed as there will be no money to be made. The ONLY way out of this for the airlines is an effective vaccine. Until that happens everything is on hold.
Quite apart from the issue of social distancing within airport terminals.

[D7666]

Be interesting if similar criteria is imposed on BA - should they receive a gov dot uk bale out - as been imposed on Air France w.r.t. short domestic flights:

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/air-france-ordered-to-curb-competiton-with-rail-in-france/

That would surely kill LHR to both MAN and LBA, and even NCL GLA and EDI if the French 1 h 15 min flight became a UK 1 h 30 m.

And UK+FR for example and/or other lands acting together could kill off LHR CDG / BRU, and so on. in favour of channel tunnel - in terms of flight time, if 1 h 30 m were set.

--
Nick

[RealFish]

Be interesting if similar criteria is imposed on BA - should they receive a gov dot uk bale out - as been imposed on Air France w.r.t. short domestic flights:

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/air-france-ordered-to-curb-competiton-with-rail-in-france/

That would surely kill LHR to both MAN and LBA, and even NCL GLA and EDI if the French 1 h 15 min flight became a UK 1 h 30 m.

And UK+FR for example and/or other lands acting together could kill off LHR CDG / BRU, and so on. in favour of channel tunnel - in terms of flight time, if 1 h 30 m were set.

--
Nick

Of course France has the benefit of a large high speed rail system which had already eaten into domestic air services. That said Virgin's high frequency timetable was said to have done the same for Manchester - with the exception of those using Man-LHR to connect to other flights.

Also, I seem to recall that France has ducked, dived and evaded the EU's railway liberalisation rules. With these in mind, I think that Air France were themselves proposing to run trains between Paris, Paris CDG, Lyon and the south, but AFAIK this came to nothing.

[SWBKCB]

LHR isn't exactly connected to the rest of the country by high speed rail, so apples and oranges.

[esscee]

AND when has France and Germany obeyed EU rules when it suits them! They disregard EU rules as and when is convenient to either or both of them.

[Rutan16]

esscee

OBB, Arriva and NS operate trains in Germany .

And the liberation is a British idea you know ruin every other integrated network !

[inOban]

And there's an independent operator in Italy also.
The EU may be slow to enforce its rules, but they do enforce them. The idea that only the UK obeys them is one of the founding myths of Brexit.

[DaveReidUK]

And there's an independent operator in Italy also.
The EU may be slow to enforce its rules, but they do enforce them. The idea that only the UK obeys them is one of the founding myths of Brexit.

Assuming you mean Italo, in their early days (maybe still) they were subjected to lots of dirty tricks by Trenitalia, the nationally-owned operator, while the government and the EU sat on their hands.

[Dannyboy39]

They haven’t enforced it in Italy up until now - they have been in special administration for 3 years.

I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing that the Italian government have propped up Alitalia over all of these years, protecting livelihoods, but you can understand when the likes of RYR complain about this sort of thing; when there’s a perception of one rule for one...

[Buster the Bear]

Those BA staff remaining to go onto zero hours contracts.

Those being made redundant get Govt minima only.

Ruthless and opportunist.

I see trouble ahead.

[tictack67]

Be interesting if similar criteria is imposed on BA - should they receive a gov dot uk bale out - as been imposed on Air France w.r.t. short domestic flights:

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/air-france-ordered-to-curb-competiton-with-rail-in-france/

That would surely kill LHR to both MAN and LBA, and even NCL GLA and EDI if the French 1 h 15 min flight became a UK 1 h 30 m.

And UK+FR for example and/or other lands acting together could kill off LHR CDG / BRU, and so on. in favour of channel tunnel - in terms of flight time, if 1 h 30 m were set.

--
Nick
No danger of that soon.

The fastest Edinburgh to London train is OVER 4 hours.

Edinburgh to Manchester fastest is over 3 hours, Birmingham even longer

[inOban]

On the other hand, for Birmingham and Manchester at least, the train is much more frequent in normal times, and gives you uninterrupted work time.

[SWBKCB]

gives you uninterrupted work time

Hmm - that's a matter of opinion....

[Hipennine]

Be interesting if similar criteria is imposed on BA - should they receive a gov dot uk bale out - as been imposed on Air France w.r.t. short domestic flights:

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/air-france-ordered-to-curb-competiton-with-rail-in-france/

That would surely kill LHR to both MAN and LBA, and even NCL GLA and EDI if the French 1 h 15 min flight became a UK 1 h 30 m.

And UK+FR for example and/or other lands acting together could kill off LHR CDG / BRU, and so on. in favour of channel tunnel - in terms of flight time, if 1 h 30 m were set.

--
Nick

Except that the Air France agreement specifically exempts routes to/from "hub" airports such as CDG because of transit pax. So pretty much like the BA routes into LHR. Note it's the routes that are exempt, irrespective of whether pax are transiting or not..

[crewmeal]

On the other hand, for Birmingham and Manchester at least, the train is much more frequent in normal times, and gives you uninterrupted work time.

Riding on those God awaful Voyagers, no thanks!

[inOban]

Scotland to Manchester will now always be a brand new 397 aka Nova 2. To Birmingham it will usually be a pendolino, but you will sometimes unfortunately get a Voyager. Avanti will replace them.

[SealinkBF]

Riding on those God awaful Voyagers, no thanks!

Its Pendolini on these routes

[spacedog]

This is supposed to be a thread about BA not a discussion about Thomas the tank engine

[mariofly12]

I note that to often the reference is to BA! The reality is IAG are calling the shots and what counts are their plans. LGW can be operated by Vueling, Level and Iberia Express, particularly as IAG will in the future have a large fleet of surplus aircrafts. Indeed BA CityFlyer may also have a role to play at LHR and LGW, though immediate future of social distancing on an EMB will be a challenge. With the sad likelihood of at least 1 in 5 job losses it will be years before people have the finances to fly as frequently as they used to.
If BA did move its E-jet fleet to LGW, would they completely give up their profitable LCY routes or would they expand their Ejet fleet with more planes, say with E2 generation that flies farther and burning less fuel?
Also would they be able to increase seat count on their fleet and get the bigger E195s?

[crewmeal]

This is supposed to be a thread about BA not a discussion about Thomas the tank engine

If BA pull the domestic routes then we'll have no alternative to travel by Thomas the tank engine. NCL and LBA could be pulled sooner than one thinks!

[caaardiff]

https://simpleflying.com/iag-uk-government-aid/amp/

Not seen this reported elsewhere yet

[JSCL]

https://simpleflying.com/iag-uk-government-aid/amp/

Not seen this reported elsewhere yet

Its been widely reported. Same BoE scheme Easyjet used.

[SWBKCB]

And the one Virgin applied for but didn't meet the criteria. Thsi is a standard scheme availbale to major companies across all business sectors, not aviation related.

[caaardiff]

Was more related to IAG taking up the loan, which I thought they'd stated BA weren't interested in a few weeks ago.

[crewmeal]

I'm no financial expert but if there UK govt have supposedly bailed out BA, won't the cash go into the IAG bank account considering they own BA. If that's the case why don't the Spanish govt or Qatar Always muck in as well to help the alliance?

[SWBKCB]

"Bailed out" is a blunt term - what they've applied for is a government backed loan to help with temporary cash flow disruption

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2020/march/the-covid-corporate-financing-facility

The facility is open to firms that can demonstrate they were in sound financial health prior to the shock, allowing us to look through temporary impacts on firms’ balance sheets and cash flows from the shock itself. This means companies that had a short or long-term rating of investment grade, as at 1 March 2020, or equivalent.

[SealinkBF]

I'm no financial expert but if there UK govt have supposedly bailed out BA, won't the cash go into the IAG bank account considering they own BA. If that's the case why don't the Spanish govt or Qatar Always muck in as well to help the alliance?

The Spanish govt has helped Iberia and Vueling. Odd to expect them to help EI and BA when they both have governments able to help.

[Gurnard]

Cancellations
Would have been departing from LGW in 5 weeks' time, but received notification on Tuesday of flight being cancelled. Wanting a refund, I rang the number given in the email on Wednesday. Although callers were given an apology that the call would take longer than expected to be answered, I hardly had to wait any time. There was no problem obtaining the desired refund, and within 3 days all the money is in my account. I can't fault BA and will book with them again once "normality" returns - hoping, of course, that they don't pull out of LGW as has been intimated.

[caaardiff]

Willie Walsh currently getting a grilling from MP's on BBC Parliament channel.

[TURIN]

I wouldn't call it a grilling.
Placed in a bun warmer for a few minutes is what i'm hearing.

[spannersatcx]

Cancellations
Would have been departing from LGW in 5 weeks' time, but received notification on Tuesday of flight being cancelled. Wanting a refund, I rang the number given in the email on Wednesday. Although callers were given an apology that the call would take longer than expected to be answered, I hardly had to wait any time. There was no problem obtaining the desired refund, and within 3 days all the money is in my account. I can't fault BA and will book with them again once "normality" returns - hoping, of course, that they don't pull out of LGW as has been intimated.
well we've been trying for a refund of cancelled flights for a month now, get cut off every time, no option to get refund on website, very poor service.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

well we've been trying for a refund of cancelled flights for a month now, get cut off every time, no option to get refund on website, very poor service.
Get up at 5am and call them when call volumes are manageable.
Not joking, I've managed five cancelled BA bookings recently by doing this.

[spannersatcx]

Get up at 5am and call them when call volumes are manageable.
Not joking, I've managed five cancelled BA bookings recently by doing this.To protect the welfare of our colleagues we’re temporarily reducing our contact centre opening hours to 08:00 - 20:00 Monday to Friday, and 09:00 - 17:00 Saturday and Sunday BST.
Unless we're calling the wrong number - 0800 727 800

[englishcc]

I had a BA holiday booked for April, few days in NYC, flights and hotel. BA emailed me about 3 weeks before departure, advising it had been cancelled, and all money would be refunded in 7 to 10 days. I checked the account, and exactly 7 days later, the full amount was refunded. I didn't need to call, or email, or any follow up.Was very impressed !

Aer Lingus, on the other hand...8 weeks later, and still nothing......

[Gurnard]

well we've been trying for a refund of cancelled flights for a month now, get cut off every time, no option to get refund on website, very poor service.
They are very busy. I got through before 09.00 and was told I had chosen a quieter time as it gets much busier later morning. I know some other carriers prefer to issue vouchers and tell customers a refund may take 3 months to process. It's not easy to dish out compliments nowadays - as anyone can see by reading through these threads - but along with others I can praise BA for dealing with my request in a completely satisfactory way. I remain impressed with BA's efficiency.

[spannersatcx]

They are very busy. I got through before 09.00 and was told I had chosen a quieter time as it gets much busier later morning. I know some other carriers prefer to issue vouchers and tell customers a refund may take 3 months to process. It's not easy to dish out compliments nowadays - as anyone can see by reading through these threads - but along with others I can praise BA for dealing with my request in a completely satisfactory way. I remain impressed with BA's efficiency.
unfortunately I'm not impressed. Other things I had booked all gave the option to either use the ticket next year at no further cost, F1 at Silverstone, Cosford air show, photography show, and a concert, or get a refund all you had to do was select which option you wanted, none of this ring this number where nobody will answer.

[MARKEYD]

Well i am impressed as well !!!
Got straight through , and sorted out my back log of tickets immediately, they are under immense pressure with over half the call staff off sick while the remaining staff are under threat of redundancy so a little patience and kindness goes a long way !

[WHBM]

they are under immense pressure with over half the call staff off sick while the remaining staff are under threat of redundancy
I agree completely that pleasantness to staff is particularly something to make sure of currently, but knowing the numbers of our own office staff across the UK currently (several hundred, with ONE currently self-isolating and none diagnosed) I do wonder how half the BA call centre staff can be off sick.

Is this some euphemism for them actually having been furloughed to save money by collecting the government contribution, while providing insufficient team members to process the increased workload ?

[USERNAME_]

Redundancies inbound at Cityflyer too unfortunately, as per email from Tom Stoddart today.

[allan1987]

Redundancies inbound at Cityflyer too unfortunately, as per email from Tom Stoddart today.

This is a surprise especially before Flybe went in to administration used an Embraer E190 leased from Stobart Air to use on Edinburgh Airport to London City

BA CityFlyer redundancies on the day the Chancellor announces an extension to the JRS to protect jobsRelease date: 12/05/2020



The British Airline Pilots Association (BALPA) has announced that it was formally notified of proposed redundancies at BA CityFlyer this afternoon. The airline operates British Airways branded flights out of London City and Edinburgh Airports.

72 potential pilot redundancies were notified out of 248, mainly at Edinburgh where BA CityFlyer is proposing ending operations. In addition, the company warned that its whole future remained uncertain as British Airways, its parent company, was still reviewing its own future.

Brian Strutton, BALPA General Secretary, said: “CityFlyer had been a successful part of BA so this is yet more shocking and devastating news. While the Chancellor fanfares his Job Retention Scheme the aviation industry continues to haemorrhage jobs.

“The Government is making this crisis worse for aviation by imposing restrictions on flying and forcing airlines into a death spiral.

“BALPA will fight for every job in CityFlyer at London City and Edinburgh Airports which rely on this important and efficient airline.”


https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/Press-Releases/BA-CityFlyer-redundancies-on-the-day-the-Chancello

[davidjohnson6]

Banks and other large corporates in the City and Canary Wharf will all be pushing staff to work from home and have few meeting with clients. The remaining business travel is likely to be distributed much more over other London airports and be focussed to be nearer the homes of London's bankers instead of their offices

[Barling Magna]

From the BBC today:

Plans to make 12,000 British Airways workers redundant remain unchanged despite the UK government's extension (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52634759) of the coronavirus furlough scheme to the end of October, the airline's owner has said.

IAG chief executive Willie Walsh, in a letter to the Transport Select Committee where he gave evidence on Monday (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52616794), said that British Airways had processed cash refunds on 921,000 bookings, with vouchers given on a further 346,000 bookings.

The furlough scheme is designed to help people put on leave due to the coronavirus outbreak and to prevent employers having to make mass redundancies.

[TURIN]

I have been told that the new cc contract that has been proposed puts everyone on £24k per year including all expenses.
Seems very low. Is that industry standard?

[Lordflasheart]

...
Seems very low. Is that industry standard?

It'll be industry standard when yesterdays proposed 'take-it or leave' contract for all fleets takes effect.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/15/the-new-british-airways-cabin-crew-pay-offer-revealed/
,,,,,,

[spannersatcx]

unfortunately I'm not impressed. Other things I had booked all gave the option to either use the ticket next year at no further cost, F1 at Silverstone, Cosford air show, photography show, and a concert, or get a refund all you had to do was select which option you wanted, none of this ring this number where nobody will answer.
Finally, so still unable to get any answer by phone or email, found some postings on BA Facebook page alluding to the same issues, somebody said contact them on twitter. Never used twitter, so created an account, sent them a message and lo and behold, email received in an hour stating passed to refund department, money refunded 3 days later.
Find it strange that you can't get it through the channel they tell you to use but have to join twitter to get back what you are entitled too. Still think overall it's poor though.

[Jamesair]

I must have been lucky, the whole process from receiving an e-mail cancelling my flights, phone call, e-mail confirming cancellation refund and cash appearing on my credit card account.....5 days. Brilliant service from BA

[bcn_boy]

AND when has France and Germany obeyed EU rules when it suits them! They disregard EU rules as and when is convenient to either or both of them.
provide proof of this please. I read it a lot on this forum but it is never backed up with examples.

[DaveReidUK]

provide proof of this please. I read it a lot on this forum but it is never backed up with examples.

French head league for EU rule breaking (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1390081/French-head-league-for-EU-rule-breaking.html)

'Twas ever thus.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

You never know the French might have turned over a new leaf :E
That report was only just over 18 years ago. :ugh:

[PAXboy]

And it was printed in The Torygraph ...

[116d]

Finally, so still unable to get any answer by phone or email, found some postings on BA Facebook page alluding to the same issues, somebody said contact them on twitter. Never used twitter, so created an account, sent them a message and lo and behold, email received in an hour stating passed to refund department, money refunded 3 days later.
Find it strange that you can't get it through the channel they tell you to use but have to join twitter to get back what you are entitled too. Still think overall it's poor though.

I suspect part of that is because if a complaint or an issue is on Twitter, it's there for all and sundry to see, so in the interests of positive PR (or damage control?) they have to be seen to be acting quickly. How quickly something gets resolved if taken to Twitter also depends if whoever is operating the Twitter feed is empowered to be proactive with customer complaints and if it is decided that customers can contact them via Twitter. Whoever is operating the Twitter feed is also mindful that whatever they tweet under their employer's handle is basically tweeting on behalf of the company, so they mustn't tweet in haste like individuals or certain politicians tend to do and risk making a tit of themselves, otherwise the backlash can cause more negative PR.

I say this from another airline is one example how not to handle a customer's post. It's tame in the grand scheme of things, but it fanned the flames when you look at the responses: https://twitter.com/easyJet/status/1158642028143611904

It also made a national newspaper (yes I know the Independent doesn't appear in print form anymore): https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-backless-seat-twitter-luton-geneva-flight-a9041451.html

I agree though it's not good if issues are being resolved more quickly via Twitter than via official channels.

[LadyL2013]

I suspect part of that is because if a complaint or an issue is on Twitter, it's there for all and sundry to see, so in the interests of positive PR (or damage control?) they have to be seen to be acting quickly. How quickly something gets resolved if taken to Twitter also depends if whoever is operating the Twitter feed is empowered to be proactive with customer complaints and if it is decided that customers can contact them via Twitter. Whoever is operating the Twitter feed is also mindful that whatever they tweet under their employer's handle is basically tweeting on behalf of the company, so they mustn't tweet in haste like individuals or certain politicians tend to do and risk making a tit of themselves, otherwise the backlash can cause more negative PR.

I say this from another airline is one example how not to handle a customer's post. It's tame in the grand scheme of things, but it fanned the flames when you look at the responses: https://twitter.com/easyJet/status/1158642028143611904

It also made a national newspaper (yes I know the Independent doesn't appear in print form anymore): https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-backless-seat-twitter-luton-geneva-flight-a9041451.html

I agree though it's not good if issues are being resolved more quickly via Twitter than via official channels.

With that Easyjet case though, the person who posted was lying. The woman was not allocated that seat for flight, she just sat their temporarily whilst the air raft was boarding to speak with a family member. In which case I think it was only fair they asked them to take it down as it was lies.

[116d]

With that Easyjet case though, the person who posted was lying. The woman was not allocated that seat for flight, she just sat their temporarily whilst the air raft was boarding to speak with a family member. In which case I think it was only fair they asked them to take it down as it was lies.

Whatever the truth behind the story, my point is if a Twitter response is handled badly then this will attract negative headlines - and unfortunately there are people out there that don't look beyond the headlines (I've lost count how many people have shared news articles on social media based on the headline without reading it fully). Therefore, if somebody takes to Twitter to complain to BA about getting a refund, you're in the spotlight and people can/will watch how they respond.

[DaveReidUK]

With that Easyjet case though, the person who posted was lying. The woman was not allocated that seat for flight, she just sat their temporarily whilst the air raft was boarding to speak with a family member. In which case I think it was only fair they asked them to take it down as it was lies.

Do you know for a fact that the woman wasn't allocated that seat? When you check in (up to 30 days in advance) the computer has no idea which aircraft has been allocated to a given sector, so if a seat goes u/s in the meantime you could well find that you have that seat number on your boarding pass (though Easyjet has no excuse if it allowed a passenger holding that seat number to board without re-allocating him/her at the gate).

Irrespective of the above, Easyjet's initial response "before we can investigate this ..." was, frankly, stupid.

Their social media people should have known better. A few minutes on the phone before tweeting their response could have ascertained:

a) which aircraft and which flight was involved (in fact that information was provided by the OP)

b) whether seats were blocked off on that sector and, if so, what steps were taken to re-seat the passengers who had those seat numbers on their boarding passes

They could then have stopped the Twitter thread in its tracks by providing an authoritative response demonstrating that the OP was talking b*ll*cks.

[PAXboy]

So many companies not yet learnt the way to handle this kind of thing. They show a typical style of British 'mgmt' to shut everything down and control. Doesn't work.

Msg 1) Thank you for the question, please let us investigate ...
Msg 2) nn minutes later - the story.
Msg 3) Updated as required.
Monitor any media site relaying the original and update them as required.

[SWBKCB]

This happened last August - EZY seemed to manage to struggle bravely on... :ok:

[crewmeal]

It could have been worse. I wonder what comp they got back from TUI?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46858249]TUI (http://Family had to sit on floor of TUI plane [url) pax sit on the floor for flight home[/url]

[Cloud1]

It could have been worse. I wonder what comp they got back from TUI?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46858249]TUI (http://Family had to sit on floor of TUI plane [url) pax sit on the floor for flight home

except things were not all as reported with the TUI case either. The pax were moved to other seats but they chose to sit on the floor whilst it was rectified and then make some money out of it

[DaveReidUK]

except things were not all as reported with the TUI case either. The pax were moved to other seats but they chose to sit on the floor whilst it was rectified and then make some money out of it

Out of interest, in what way do you believe that the account on the BBC, and the subsequent discussion at length on PPRuNe, differ from what actually happened ?

What does "chose to sit on the floor while it was rectified" mean ?

[Mr Mac]

Anybody know why BA has an A380 coming into LHR from Manila this morning, as I thought they had grounded their fleet for the duration. It maybe just another cargo flight, but everyone says that the 380 is not as good for cargo ops as say a 777 so just intrigued as to why 380 used.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Rutan16]

Mr Mac been in deep maintenance and just swapped with G-XLEH and that went east a few days ago .

Will probably continue onto Châteauroux later in the week for onward storage one would have thought

[Mr Mac]

Rutan16
Thank you for the update. I did not realise BA did maintenance in Manila, though I did know Virgin had their 340 done out there.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[champair79]

It’s with Lufthansa Technik.

I wouldn’t be so sure about it going to Chateauroux. I believe it’s going to do a few repatriation flights to and from South Africa along with the only 747 that’s active.

[VickersVicount]

Nice to see a 744 returning from BOH storage to LHR hopefully for pax action!

[FR8364]

Already some BA destinations showing new reduced frequencies on their July’s timetable... IBZ, AGP, PMI... from both LHR and/or LGW.

seems an announcement will be on the table next week!

[wub]

BA A380 G-XLEG out of Heathrow to JNB tonight

[Playamar2]

B777 G-YMMG & G-YMMK have been converted to makeshift freighters according to CH Aviation. All cabin features & passenger seats have been removed.

[jijpc]

These two 777s still have first class cabins with 12 seats in place. This is for carrying spare crew as cargo flights to China have to carry crew for the return journey.

[rog747]

I need to go to Yorkshire asap for a day trip - it is for business.
(ATM we cannot stay overnight under the current lock-down rules) and it is a bloody long drive from sleepy Dorset to go for the day.

No day trip flights are possible from my local at SOU, and British Airways have just announced last week they are dropping their LBA from LHR -

An almost continuous link since before my days working at BMA at LHR when we took over the LBA service from BA in 1980.

Ugh....bad news.

[Baltic Skies]

Have you checked the flight schedule of Yorkshire Airways

[rog747]

Have you checked the flight schedule of Yorkshire Airways

Are they still doing the Saveloy and mushy peas for hot breakfast - Eh up?

[WHBM]

I need to go to Yorkshire asap for a day trip - it is for business.
(ATM we cannot stay overnight under the current lock-down rules) and it is a bloody long drive from sleepy Dorset to go for the day.

No day trip flights are possible from my local at SOU, and British Airways have just announced last week they are dropping their LBA from LHR -
This sort of thing is going to blow up in Parliament. Willie Walsh and Alex Cruz have already had strong words only yesterday from the Prime Minister about their behaviour with staff conditions. Maybe they think he's not their Prime Minister, so it doesn't matter.

BA have scooped up huge government payments for furloughing staff, and also made sure they were first in the queue to scoop up government-backed negligible interest loans which seem to have totalled about £1bn. I guess this latter was justified wholly in meetings as being for "British Airways", but maybe once agreed the government were told "Oh, by the way, make the cheque out to a company called IAG, Madrid".

Knocking the flights to Leeds, centre of a lot of recent new government MPs, and cutting their BA connecting link through Heathrow, seems something from the wholly commercial-driven days, which we are no longer in. Just a morning and evening flight each way, the ones principally used by Yorkshire and other business travellers and generally the full ones, would be part of the least conditions that might have been imposed.

[LTNman]

BA is looking into taking legal action against the UK government over the quarantine rules. Seems BA thinks their business is more important than UK lives. This leads to the question as to why IAG has not taken legal action against other countries like Spain.

Maybe BA will now turn down taxpayers money seeing they have contempt for the British public.

[adfly]

BA is looking into taking legal action against the UK government over the quarantine rules. Seems BA thinks their business is more important than UK lives. This leads to the question as to why IAG has not taken legal action against other countries like Spain.

Maybe BA will now turn down taxpayers money seeing they have contempt for the British public.
That seems a little hysterical. It is quite clear that they are challenging it due to the absolute mess the Govt have made of not bothering with a quarantine when it was needed then chucking in a half arsed effort just as things are starting to get better, with most of the countries around the UK being a lower risk than we are. In other words they are needlessly penalising the travel industry no no appreciable gain in terms of Covid transmission risk. If this was implemented in March/April I'd be inclined to agree with your statement if BA were on about legal action then.

As for the taxpayers money/layoffs/new contracts, I am rather less on side with BA in that matter, I feel like they are trying to push things way too far in the cost savings department.

[LTNman]

I too would have liked the government to have taken action quicker but we can’t have a situation where BA and other airlines are putting their own interests first. The fact that we should have done it earlier does not mean we should not do it now.

[Yeehaw22]

I too would have liked the government to have taken action quicker but we can’t have a situation where BA and other airlines are putting their own interests first. The fact that we should have done it earlier does not mean we should not do it now.

I think BA are acting despicably during this crisis. But, they are making a valid point. The quarantine is a nonsense that if left unchallenged will ruin the industry. Not once have the government offered any justification as to why now. The home Secretary has been asked directly numerous occasions this week and point blank refused to give any scientific backup to this circus of a quarantine.

[Cloud1]

I think BA are acting despicably during this crisis. But, they are making a valid point. The quarantine is a nonsense that if left unchallenged will ruin the industry. Not once have the government offered any justification as to why now. The home Secretary has been asked directly numerous occasions this week and point blank refused to give any scientific backup to this circus of a quarantine.

The government are chasing their tail all the time and this late quarantine measure is another example. They also are not innocent in the BA restructuring either. They made it very clear that they wouldn’t offer state aid or any packages unless an airline can evidence they have done everything to reduce their costs. Arguably that is what BA are doing whether we like it or not.

The cabin crew pay grades at BA vary significantly and I am not sure how they compare to other airlines in a similar market (I.e Full service mixed cabins long haul and buy on board shorthaul). Those high salaries and agreements at BA have developed over time and is likely to be cost that cannot be sustained in the short to medium term. The problem is though that it is what individuals are use to and factor in, in lifestyle, living arrangements and bills etc. So any cuts will of course be a big blow and take a large hit to those impacted as would be expected.

What I would like to understand better is what the proposed terms and condition changes are, and what costs would be sustained (and subsequent impact) over the next 2 years if these changes are not made. Unfortunately it seems the Unions are spending too much time in the media and publicising BA adversely rather than sitting down and laying out what compromises could be made to either reduce the proposed redundancies or maintain other benefits / conditions. That’s certainly the impression I’m getting from watching various interviews with the union and WW on the news channels.

[Asturias56]

It was thought up to give Priti something to say in case she repeated her remark about the fall in shop lifting cases, Cummings thinks it will play well to beat on "Johnny Foreigner" - once it was said Bojo had to back Priit just as hey realised they look ridiculous. If I had serious business sin Yorkshire I'd just go and stay overnight and tell them I was unfit to drive back if anyone asked

[DomyDom]

I too would have liked the government to have taken action quicker but we can’t have a situation where BA and other airlines are putting their own interests first. The fact that we should have done it earlier does not mean we should not do it now.
The border rule is a farce when you look at how many groups are exempted and that it is practically unenforceable. We should have a targetted ban on flights and travellers from countries with a high infection rate (we still don't) with exceptions made for those on essential journeys who would undergo quarantine in government allocated secure accomodation. A bit like we had in February before the UK government decided it wasn't necessary.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules

[Mr A Tis]

Not heard BA considering any legal action against other travel restrictions/bans in other countries.

https://www.kayak.com/travel-restrictions?fbclid=IwAR012Y1MudUNJE1g-G1LcbE_-tpvWcGyc0dCKKx41bO8r-4SyQ2SCjHjcw0

[DomyDom]

Not heard BA considering any legal action against other travel restrictions/bans in other countries.

https://www.kayak.com/travel-restrictions?fbclid=IwAR012Y1MudUNJE1g-G1LcbE_-tpvWcGyc0dCKKx41bO8r-4SyQ2SCjHjcw0
Probably because the travel restrictions/bans in other countries are logical and timely.

[WHBM]

We should have a targeted ban on flights and travellers from countries with a high infection rate (we still don't)
The issue with any targeting of individual countries is that it always comes foul of the Foreign Office, who regardless of the circumstances are terrified of any individual countries being singled out as they will commonly take the huff and impose reciprocal regulations that upset all their diplomacy. Global approaches to an extent overcomes this. The fact that it decimates the UK aviation industry is by the by to them.

It also is quite defeated by those coming through intermediate hubs. Emirates coming in to the UK from Dubai have probably got on board people who started in 30 or 40 different countries, but who if they come from one of the embargoed places will happily show their documentation that they are coming from Dubai, or alternatively have been sat next to someone from such a place for the last 8 hours.

[Buster the Bear]

Using tax payers money to take legal action against tax payers.

With one of highest death rates in the world and the reproduction rate a shave away from 1, no wonder it is time to quarantine inbound pax! Inbound numbers have been incredibly low, inconsequential.

It actually shocks me that folk want to go back to normal immediately!

[lfc84]

Using tax payers money to take legal action against tax payers.

With one of highest death rates in the world and the reproduction rate a shave away from 1, no wonder it is time to quarantine inbound pax! Inbound numbers have been incredibly low, inconsequential.

It actually shocks me that folk want to go back to normal immediately!
it's not arrivals into the UK that should be quarantined, it's departures

[rog747]

This sort of thing is going to blow up in Parliament. Willie Walsh and Alex Cruz have already had strong words only yesterday from the Prime Minister about their behaviour with staff conditions. Maybe they think he's not their Prime Minister, so it doesn't matter.

BA have scooped up huge government payments for furloughing staff, and also made sure they were first in the queue to scoop up government-backed negligible interest loans which seem to have totalled about £1bn. I guess this latter was justified wholly in meetings as being for "British Airways", but maybe once agreed the government were told "Oh, by the way, make the cheque out to a company called IAG, Madrid".

Knocking the flights to Leeds, centre of a lot of recent new government MPs, and cutting their BA connecting link through Heathrow, seems something from the wholly commercial-driven days, which we are no longer in. Just a morning and evening flight each way, the ones principally used by Yorkshire and other business travellers and generally the full ones, would be part of the least conditions that might have been imposed.

Thats what everyone will want - not just from LHR but places like SOU too

[louelle100]

I noticed on the letter BALPA sent out it said one of the options for crew was BRS flight crew? what does this mean.

[HZ123]

Business response Scheme = Take an unpaid holiday, find another position or occupation. It was for a year but maybe extended in the current climate. You stay on the companies books.

[PAXboy]

British Airways to auction art collection to raise much needed funds
Airline owns art by Tracey Emin, Anish Kapoor and Chris Ofili, with some works valued at more than £1m

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/10/ba-auction-art-collection-coronavirus)
Whilst it is good that they are selling them - why did they buy all that stuff in the first place?

[davidjohnson6]

Some have been displayed at the firm’s Waterside headquarters near Heathrow, but many of the 1,500 artworks in the collection have been on the walls of its executive lounges.

[PAXboy]

In any exec lounge that I've ever been in (around the globe) I cannot recall looking at what they put on the walls. I look for a comfy seat, hopefully a little quiet or, best of all, a window with a view to the tarmac and runway. Perhaps it's just me.

[WHBM]

In any exec lounge that I've ever been in (around the globe) I cannot recall looking at what they put on the walls. I look for a comfy seat, hopefully a little quiet or, best of all, a window with a view to the tarmac and runway. Perhaps it's just me.I can, because quite a number have good historic photos of past aircraft on the walls. The "BA" lounge at Frankfurt, which is actually the JAL/OneWorld lounge, has some great photos all round of the first JAL flights into Frankfurt.

[Playamar2]

Does anyone have any further news on British Airways quarantine challenge through the courts. Its all gone very quiet in the last 10 days, as I can't find anything in the media

[valefan16]

Does anyone have any further news on British Airways quarantine challenge through the courts. Its all gone very quiet in the last 10 days, as I can't find anything in the media

Did wonder about it, but with TUI saying they've been involved in government discussions I dare say BA/IAG also have so guess waiting on the Air Bridges? Ryanair and easyJet have been fairly quiet on it too the past week or so.

[toledoashley]

Does anyone have any further news on British Airways quarantine challenge through the courts. Its all gone very quiet in the last 10 days, as I can't find anything in the media

Heard it was pencilled in for a hearing early July.

[G TAXi]

787-10 ZBLA on delivery flight to heathrow arriving at approx 11.46am

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Saw an article in an enthusiast magazine regarding four (leased) B77Ws still to be delivered.

Link here : https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/four-triple-seven-deliveries-for-ba/

Anyone think BA will still take these? I'm guessing they will be in production, but likely not taken up. Unless taken as one for one with retired B744 aircraft. Anyone know?

OTEA

[champair79]

Yes they will be taken up. They were originally ordered to replace the 3 A-market 772s (1 already retired, the other 2 have been stored at LHR since March). With the current cargo market, these 77W’s are needed for belly capacity. BA can always stand down some 772’s temporarily.

Also, they are leased so there isn’t a large initial outlay in capital.

champ

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Thanks Champ. Forgot about the retired/retiring B772s.

[cornishsimon]

Being reported on various social media sites that BA have announced the immediate retirement of the 744 :( rip


cs

[David Thompson]

From a social media feed , page , thingy ;

"Dear colleague

With much regret, we are proposing, subject to consultation, the immediate retirement of our Queen of the Skies, the 747-400. We know there is speculation on social media and aviation websites, so we wanted to make our position clear.

The whole airline community is reconciling itself to a bleak outlook for passenger demand. Long haul travel will take years to recover, with the major industry bodies agreeing that we will not see a return to 2019 levels until 2023 at the soonest. The bulk of our fleet is large, wide-bodied, long haul aircraft with many premium seats, intended to carry high volumes of customers. The unofficial flagship of our fleet, the 747-400 has a very special place in the hearts of aviation enthusiasts and of many of us. We know how many memories of this extra-special aircraft are shared across the BA family and our proposal to retire the fleet early has only been taken in response to the crisis we find ourselves in.

When many people think of BA today, they think of our Jumbos connecting Britain with the world, and the world with Britain. They are true icons. We love the Queen of the Skies and have operated them since 1971. We took our first 747-400 (technically the 747-436) registration G-BNLC in July 1989, and our newest was delivered to us in April 1999. There’s a great archive video about the aircraft here.

Most of our 747s are already due for retirement progressively by early 2024, and we recently refreshed the interiors of a number of them with the intention of a good few remaining years in service. They are an airliner of another era, however, and they burn far more fuel than the latest generation of planes and, logically, require more frequent and detailed attention from our engineering team. They rely on high passenger load factors and high premium demand to make them commercially viable. In short, we do not believe that these beautiful aircraft are sustainable in a very different airline industry. Subject to proper consultation, their early retirement would be accelerated over the coming months, and we would not expect any more commercial flights to be flown.

The proposal to retire the entire fleet of these iconic aircraft is nothing short of heart breaking for those of us that grew up watching them fly all over the world.”

[MARKEYD]

Just had the message through tonight, funny how BA always delivers bad news late at night to us all in the company or on a Friday evening

Feel incredibly sad but not surprised , we new this was coming , but what an end to an iconic aircraft

My last operating flight was back in March from New York to Heathrow just before it all kicked off

An amazing aircraft, bit like a London bus I would tell customers, falling to bits but kept going !!

[VickersVicount]

and the CEO A321's likely wont resurface either.

[Flightrider]

That's a sad parting, but quite inevitable given the incredibly slow recovery of customer demand from the pandemic. The analysis of long-haul booking trends by IATA this week makes for incredibly depressing reading.

At the perilous risk of levity in a situation where today's jobs and livelihoods are clearly and sadly at stake, BA have clearly chosen to forget about 1970 when the first 747-136s were delivered to BOAC. The aircraft were grounded for nearly a year under a BALPA industrial dispute before they actually entered service in 1971, which is the date "officially" recognised as the start of 747 operations in today's comms. There's nothing quite like a bit of re-telling of history as you wish it to be seen today!

Either which way, a sad day and a real blow to those hoping to fly the 747 for a few years to come though.

[ZFT]

I hope at least one of these aircraft is saved for a museum somewhere in the UK for future generations to see what the 747 was like.
Sadly I doubt this will happen.

[ETOPS]

The big sadness here is that BA will use this as an excuse to make many crew redundant. They promised to protect the current A350 and 787 thus there will be fewer places to redeploy the 747 guys. The premature end to more than a few careers...........:{

[Mark 9263]

So what would have been the final BA 747-400 passenger flight?

[AirportPlanner1]

Quite fitting the 747 broke the subsonic NY-London record at the end to say good bye

[EMACargo]

Has there been any update regarding the A380’s on the back of this B747 news??

[Wycombe]

Has there been any update regarding the A380’s on the back of this B747 news??

Don't think so but I saw 1 was ferried from CHR back to LHR yesterday.

[Breathe]

I hope the Museum of Flight in East Fortune can get one to compliment the Concorde they already have.

What an almost out of the blue watershed moment for BA. It certainly marks an end of an era after nearly 50 years of operating various variants of the 747.

Like Concorde though, there is no place for sentiment in business and if retiring the 747s 4 years earlier than planned is necessary to save jobs and the airline, it has to be done I guess.

The aircraft played a pivotal role for the airline and its immediate predecessors, so I do hope that they will give them a proper send off and a socially distanced farewell tour of some sort can be arranged providing lockdown rules become more relaxed throughout the rest of the year.

[Gurnard]

Don't think so but I saw 1 was ferried from CHR back to LHR yesterday.
For maintenance.

[Gurnard]

Amid the gloom, something slightly brighter. Good to see a BA LGW departure today - B777-200 (G-YMMD) to Bermuda. Let's hope it signifies BA's return to LGW.

[kcockayne]

With you there, Gurnard.

[dc9-32]

Maybe put a 744 into Duxford alongside Concorde.

The coat is on.......

[Cuillin Hills]

Maybe put a 744 into Duxford alongside Concorde.

The coat is on.......


....... or Cosford Museum?

No, hang on a minute, maybe not. 😁

[TURIN]

The big sadness here is that BA will use this as an excuse to make many crew redundant. They promised to protect the current A350 and 787 thus there will be fewer places to redeploy the 747 guys. The premature end to more than a few careers...........:{

I don't mean to be picky but there are a lot more staff facing redundancy then just 'crew'. Consider, for example, the number of engineers, refuellers, baggage handlers, cargo and various other ground based admin jobs that make it possible for a 747 to get into the air.

The focus in the press has been almost exclusively on pilots and cabin crew. I get that, it's the public image of an airline. As industry insiders maybe we should be showing a bit more tact when discussing 'staff' redundancies.

[Cloud1]

I don't mean to be picky but there are a lot more staff facing redundancy then just 'crew'. Consider, for example, the number of engineers, refuellers, baggage handlers, cargo and various other ground based admin jobs that make it possible for a 747 to get into the air.

The focus in the press has been almost exclusively on pilots and cabin crew. I get that, it's the public image of an airline. As industry insiders maybe we should be showing a bit more tact when discussing 'staff' redundancies.

Wholeheartedly agree - have become a little tired of listening to the Unions talking only about crew - it takes many cogs to keep the wheel going. Also nonsense about using the retirement of an ageing fleet as an excuse to reduce heads - give me a break. VS have retired theirs as have many airlines in the past...they are gas guzzling during a time where there isn’t the demand to fill them at premium yield. I know there is a lot of ill feeling towards BA and my view is if you don’t like it, leave.

[Playamar2]

Looks like their European operations will transfer back to Gatwick on 9th September (checked Alicante, Malaga & Tenerife - probably others).

[Alex321]

Looks like their European operations will transfer back to Gatwick on 9th September (checked Alicante, Malaga & Tenerife - probably others).

The Points Guy did an article yesterday with the list of routes -

http://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/ba-gatwick-return/

[AirportPlanner1]

Is that actually true though? Reason I say it is it’s only 3 weeks or so since when looking to rebook there were LGW options to my destination. I went for City, end of August. The next day my new flight was cancelled, evidently along with LGW. Might the same merely happen for September once we get nearer the time on a rolling programme of postponement and cancellation?

[Too Few Stripes]

I don't mean to be picky but there are a lot more staff facing redundancy then just 'crew'. Consider, for example, the number of engineers, refuellers, baggage handlers, cargo and various other ground based admin jobs that make it possible for a 747 to get into the air.

The focus in the press has been almost exclusively on pilots and cabin crew. I get that, it's the public image of an airline. As industry insiders maybe we should be showing a bit more tact when discussing 'staff' redundancies.

Unfortunately you do mean to picky! You’re moaning about PILOTS discussing PILOT redundancies on a PILOT forum - surely that’s exactly what should be on PPRUNE. Nobody here thinks that pilots are the be-all and end-all much as I’m certain they are all aware of the other roles affected by redundancies etc. However, that is not the focus or intended audience of this forum.

[TURIN]

Unfortunately you do mean to picky! You’re moaning about PILOTS discussing PILOT redundancies on a PILOT forum - surely that’s exactly what should be on PPRUNE. Nobody here thinks that pilots are the be-all and end-all much as I’m certain they are all aware of the other roles affected by redundancies etc. However, that is not the focus or intended audience of this forum.


Theres always one.

This hasn't been an exclusive pilot's forum for nearly twenty years. I know as that was when I joined. This is the BA forum, not the BA Pilot's forum.
There are plenty of other 'exclusive' pilot forums (fora?) within Pprune, If you don't like mixing with the rest of us stick to them.

The vast majority of pilots and cabin crew I have met in a near forty year career have been decent, amiable people. Try and be the same eh. It won't hurt you know.

[Rutan16]

Wholeheartedly agree - have become a little tired of listening to the Unions talking only about crew - it takes many cogs to keep the wheel going. Also nonsense about using the retirement of an ageing fleet as an excuse to reduce heads - give me a break. VS have retired theirs as have many airlines in the past...they are gas guzzling during a time where there isn’t the demand to fill them at premium yield. I know there is a lot of ill feeling towards BA and my view is if you don’t like it, leave.

Its the Unions job to negotiate and represent THEIR members(paying their dues) if ancillary and clerical staff are Unionised it’s THEIR Unions job to voice concerns on behalf of their members.

Naturally all job losses should be voiced and are equally tragic !

[Cloud1]

Its the Unions job to negotiate and represent THEIR members(paying their dues) if ancillary and clerical staff are Unionised it’s THEIR Unions job to voice concerns on behalf of their members.

Naturally all job losses should be voiced and are equally tragic !

Unites conduct through this has been shameful in comparison to Balpa; and I can only imagine crew in other airlines also going through the same restructuring are sick of hearing about BA crew. VS, EasyJet and even Jet2 have all seen cuts but we don’t see picketing and slots being threatened there.

Unites approach is entirely counter productive particularly around their insistence on reducing BA’s landing slots at LHR.

I feel this has the potential of increasing a divide between crew and other airline personnel.

[Too Few Stripes]

Theres always one.

This hasn't been an exclusive pilot's forum for nearly twenty years. I know as that was when I joined. This is the BA forum, not the BA Pilot's forum.
There are plenty of other 'exclusive' pilot forums (fora?) within Pprune, If you don't like mixing with the rest of us stick to them.

The vast majority of pilots and cabin crew I have met in a near forty year career have been decent, amiable people. Try and be the same eh. It won't hurt you know.

if you don’t like criticism, don’t post nonsense!
where else should pilots be discussing pilot issues?? The BALPA forum is only for members and many of them do not like the lack of anonymity with the fear culture that exists at many airlines. Not discussing other roles is not insensitive, it’s simply not normally relevant in a pilot forum. What bit of PROFESSIONAL PILOT RUmour Network do you not understand?

Any statement that starts with ‘I don’t want to be X, but....’ invariably means you are exactly X. You have proven the point perfectly but didn’t like being called out on it. Accept this IS a pilots network where pilots should, and will, discuss pilot issues. If you don’t like that then perhaps you need to find another forum ??

[kcockayne]

What a pity that we have all this rancour & bitterness. It amply illustrates why all the power is concentrated in one of the two sides involved. I leave you to determine for yourselves exactly which side that may be.

[Rutan16]

Unites conduct through this has been shameful in comparison to Balpa; and I can only imagine crew in other airlines also going through the same restructuring are sick of hearing about BA crew. VS, EasyJet and even Jet2 have all seen cuts but we don’t see picketing and slots being threatened there.

Unites approach is entirely counter productive particularly around their insistence on reducing BA’s landing slots at LHR.

I feel this has the potential of increasing a divide between crew and other airline personnel.

Na its the members not voicing their valid concerns to shop stewards . Going to sound sexist however the women seem to wait instructions rather than provide that instruction !

[Lew540]

Hi everyone,
been looking for answer everywhere recently. Just got my first myopia prescription (20/70 in worse eye which is -1.25). I’m 15 and hoping to join BA in the coming years.
Do I have a good chance, if I work hard in school or will my eyes give me a disadvantage compared to other candidates?
Do BA still host their own medical or not?
Thanks in advance.

[Rutan16]

Hi everyone,
been looking for answer everywhere recently. Just got my first myopia prescription (20/70 in worse eye which is -1.25). I’m 15 and hoping to join BA in the coming years.
Do I have a good chance, if I work hard in school or will my eyes give me a disadvantage compared to other candidates?
Do BA still host their own medical or not?
Thanks in advance.

Be prepared for many changes in life expectations, be very flexible and get those grades,take a gap year and have some fun it’s worthwhile then consider a degree in whatever subjects you excel at.

Come back when you’re 21 and then decide seriously

[VickersVicount]

Come back when you’re 21
....and someone may have actually answered your specific queries!

[davidjohnson6]

Lew - while I agree with much of what Rutan wrote, think about learning to fly / gain a PPL during university years. If you end up flying for a living, you want to make sure you will *really* enjoy it

[Gurnard]

The advice above is all good. In addition, 5-6 years from now opportunities may be better than the present time with a lot of qualified pilots looking for work.

[Lew540]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've recently emailed the CAA and other airlines such as BA regarding their recruitment - they've mostly replied with the same advice (Concentrate on getting the qualifications while also looking after yourself). I have recently been slightly worried as most people label airline pilots as '100% healthy'. So this advice has helped me greatly. I will concentrate on getting my qualifications - and possibly achieve my dream of captaining the A380 one day!
Thanks Everyone.

[c52]

Did the 747s make up about a quarter of the long-haul fleet and maybe a third of the capacity?

Online fleet lists have already removed them.

[TURIN]

if you don’t like criticism, don’t post nonsense!
where else should pilots be discussing pilot issues?? The BALPA forum is only for members and many of them do not like the lack of anonymity with the fear culture that exists at many airlines. Not discussing other roles is not insensitive, it’s simply not normally relevant in a pilot forum. What bit of PROFESSIONAL PILOT RUmour Network do you not understand?

Any statement that starts with ‘I don’t want to be X, but....’ invariably means you are exactly X. You have proven the point perfectly but didn’t like being called out on it. Accept this IS a pilots network where pilots should, and will, discuss pilot issues. If you don’t like that then perhaps you need to find another forum ??

Where to start?

It is you that is spitting their dummy out. I very politly, I thought, suggested that when referring to the current difficulties we could use the term 'staff' instead of 'crew'. (The term 'crew' refers to flying staff not just pilots) Just an idea to maybe refrain from marginalising the vast number of BA staff who are not crew. I wasn't having a dig, but you have chosen to take it as such and then come across as elitist telling me and every other non-pilot to sling our hooks. Thanks for that. Next time you are stuck down the line, remember there is a vast army of non flying staff looking after your interests to try and get you, your aircraft, crew and passengers home.

This is a sub-forum within Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business. It doesn't say 'pilots' only!
There are a number of forum within Pprune aimed specifically at non-pilots and also 'everyone'. Jet blast and the Computer forum spring to mind. This 'British Airways' forum is no different. I see posts on here from everyone, passengers, crew, ground staff, managers, admin the lot. It is not an exclusive pilot's forum. Get over it.

[SKOJB]

Noted that BA intend to temporarily ground x 4 A380’s, assume this is further to the entire A380 fleet being stored during lockdown. Can’t help but think this is the start of the end for the double decker!

[dc9-32]

And is terminating the A318 operations too.

[DaveReidUK]

Noted that BA intend to temporarily ground x 4 A380’s, assume this is further to the entire A380 fleet being stored during lockdown. Can’t help but think this is the start of the end for the double decker!

I'm not clear what distinction you are making between "stored" and "temporarily grounded".

[SKOJB]

I'm not clear what distinction you are making between "stored" and "temporarily grounded".

all were stored during lockdown, of which some are now returning to service. However, 4 are being temporarily grounded until further notice. Simply highlighting that anything with four engines is at risk for the future!

[Gurnard]

"Some are now returning to service"??
They are simply positioning to LHR for routine maintenance as I understand it, then returning to CHR for further storage.

[DaveReidUK]

all were stored during lockdown, of which some are now returning to service. However, 4 are being temporarily grounded until further notice. Simply highlighting that anything with four engines is at risk for the future!

Ah, OK, I'm with you now.

I don't think any are actually back in service yet - there is only one currently at LHR, although G-XLEH must be due back from Manila soon so there may be another about to go out there. It's hard to think what routes might support an A380 right now.

[Paul Rice]

Given the awful way staff have been treated at British Airways resulting in widespread condemnation of the company has the time now arrived when the title British should be removed from this business ?

Does the organisation and its culture reflect the true values and standards of the British people ?

The underlying essence of being British might amongst many things be viewed as having an underlying sense of fair play and given that the company is really an international group of businesses should we continue to allow the operations of this business to be associated with our national identity when its corporate, standards, goals and values seem to differ and contrast so much from the traditions of our national culture ?

Was the privilege of being called British Airways natural when it was a Nationalised asset ?

However now that it is part of a global group of companies is it appropriate that the business continues to wrap itself in our national flag and continues to call itself British ?

Does concept of being British involves identification with values and standards which are of much deeper significance and permanence than mere short term corporate expediency ?

[GKOC41]

The Director Of People has left BA according to CH Aviation. Does that help your cause..

[SaulGoodman]

Does the organisation and its culture reflect the true values and standards of the British people ?


anglosaxon business model?

[wideman]

Slippery slope if you think an airline's name is meant to reflect a sense of its country. Because surely the very first airline whose name must change would be the USA carrier, United Airlines.

[wiggy]

Does the organisation and its culture reflect the true values and standards of the British people ?

Which are? Define that and then the debate is worth having.

[M.Mouse]

As wiggy asks, what are they?

In case you hadn't noticed the cultural identity of the UK has changed enormously over the past 50 years with the influx of people whose cultural background is different from the original indigenous population of say 70 years ago.

Not a judgement simply a fact.

[bex88]

FFS really? All for a bit of BA bashing but what a pointless thread.

Worst crisis ever. Could they have handled it better? Yes, could staff groups have behaved better? Yes. Everyone has some responsibility. Rather than trying to tear the company apart knuckle down and drag the company through. Wait for the pendulum to swing in our favour then campaign for our rewards.

[hunterboy]

To quote the great Robbie Burns “O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!"
As mentioned above , I would hate to think what some people would define as Britishness. Drunkiness, loutishness, warmongers, chavs?
Reading the daily newspapers one would certainly be forgiven for thinking they are the main character traits of the average Brit, though I would like to think there is a silent majority with better traits tucked away at home

[wiggy]

Good point bex88..a couple of points if I may.

Firstly knocking lumps out of BA management is one thing, criticising certain individuals, indeed the whole management committee, is IMHO fair enough...they have thick skins..OTOH knocking lumps out of BA, the entity, and worse still perhaps encouraging people not to fly with them does very little, if anything, to help those still working at the company..in fact it could end up being positively damaging for many people's job prospects..

Secondly please remember some of the public perception of "BA" has been generated by a clever PR campaign run by on particular organisation who very definitely have an axe to grind.

[bex88]

Wiggy, true. Ba is us. It is the front line staff.

[Baltic Skies]

As far as cabin crew redundancies go,the demise of the legacy crew will hit the airline so hard.
Many crew have over 25 years experience,a substantial number,much more.
Nothing like being greeted and taken care of,flying home from the other side of the world,by experienced,highly trained crew.
Imagine the future,a crew of inexperienced youngsters,complemented by the odd,bitter and disillusioned old timer,on vastly inferior pay and conditions.
Not the ideal senario for a customer experience perspective.
Combined with disgruntled flight crew,demoralised ground staff and embittered engineers,doesn't bode well does it.
Not the BA experience we are used to,not a future i look forward to either.